The right wing meme about charity,

[miscsoc]

to the effect that it isn't moral to promote redistributive policies since nobody can take credit for giving something he or she is forced to give, and that private charity is the only moral form of giving because it is free and the giver can take credit for it

makes me wonder about how those on the right think about helping people, and the associated moral issues. When I want to help people, I'm motivated by just wanting to help them for its own sake, and the best way to do that - the only effective way - involves state intervention.

It makes me think that a lot of conservatives think of morality in terms of accumulating a history of good deeds as some sort of personal resource - that I suppose could be traded in in the afterlife, or used as a source of bragging rights, or something. I'm not sure if that counts as morality at all.

Do you think I have this right?

[izquierdista]

1. I hate charity

In a just world, there would be no need for charities. Do you ever see charities collecting for medical purposes in countries with nationalized health care? I haven't.

[miscsoc]

8. In a just world they would not exist.

I don't hate charities - I hate some - although any decent charity worker would prefer that their job was unnecessary.

I've benefited from a charity founded by communists, who by definition don't think there should be a need for any such organisation.

[SheilaT]

2. Interesting thought.

And that makes me wonder if the fundamentalist churches have as good a track record for charity and good works for others as do the liberal denominations.

[Axle_techie]

5. Generally, the more liberal denominations have better homeless

charities. The exception to the rule is Catholic churches, which seem believe that charity is a very necessary trait.

[miscsoc]

7. Not incidentally, Catholic teaching isn't hostile to state provision of welfare

I'm not a Catholic and not up on the details, but afaik the church isn't hostile to the idea of the welfare state, and see their charity work as complementary to state services

[Axle_techie]

15. Very much so

[monmouth]

3. The charity galas down here in Palm Beach are an opportunity for

the wealthy to "give" for the tax break/write-off and to get their photo in the "Shiny Sheet" (society page)...And don't you dare spell that name wrong. That's the main attraction. Did I mention that Palm Beach is approximately 99% Repub?? When a huge donation is given there is much picture taking and little luncheons are given to the giver for their "generosity." It's a joke.

[miscsoc]

10. I have an american relative who gives huge amounts of money to a college sports team

Just so he can have his name in the donors list at the back of the programme. Like 30 grand a year

(And no, he has never given me, his beloved nephew, a penny. not that i would expect him to, I'm just saying this by way of pointing out how much some people are willing to spend on status for status's sake)

[Sisaruus]

13. Once was invited to lunch with the Palm Beach chapter of the Harvard Alumni Club

I was living in the people's republic of Cambridge and working for a feminist organization at the time and quite used to being surrounded by people on the left. When the group at our table started ranting about "Obama the socialist," I said, quite politely, "I am a socialist and I can tell you he certainly is not." Hmmm.... given their response, I would guess that group doesn't normally hang out with self-identified socialists. That or I had cooties.

My date offered to bring be back anytime. I have little desire to visit Palm Beach again (except for the Chihuly installation at the Norton). He can fly north to visit me.

[MineralMan]

4. So the right wingers believe in Karma?

Very interesting. Let's ask some of them that question? See what they say about that.

Karma is kinda anathema amongst the fundamentalist Christian sects, I do believe. Salvation is a binary thing in fundamentalist dogma. You are or you are not, so building up good karma isn't gonna get you a bigger set of wings, as far as I know.

[miscsoc]

6. My post was inspired by Glenn Beck

Making an argument to this effect. I don't know much about Mormon theology.

Also, right wingers covet status and superiority, so maybe the bragging rights and sense of power associated with private charity appeals to them.

[miscsoc]

9. also yeah i wonder what sort of response you'd get?

I don't know anyone personally who could give a response, all the Christians I know believe in the welfare state

[Naturyl]

11. Yep, you have it exactly right. (n/t)

[Curmudgeoness]

12. "It isn't moral to promote redistributive policies" if no one can take credit?

This is the most assinine comment I have ever heard. These RW idiots don't even realize that as a % of GDP, the US falls behind many other nations for aid to other countries and to their own citizens. I do not itemize on my taxes, therefore, any of my charitible giving is not a tax reducing event. Nor do I have enough to have my name published. So does that mean I should not be giving? Just sign me "no credit given, no credit taken, no credit needed".

[MAcciard]

14. Alright, you have confused me...

"the most effective way to help people is through state intervention"???

Lets take Katrina as an example;

ALL levels of Government; Federal, but more importantly, State, and Local, because they were there on the ground before, during and after, Failed Epically! As a matter of fact the only relief efforts that worked well were the tens of billions in private charity dollars and efforts, both religious and secular.

As a matter of fact Wal-mart had 22 Tractor trailer rigs filled with pallets of water in the area before anyone else had even organized. But there were many others that performed while all levels of government performed a circle jerk.

[Axle_techie]

16. +1

[AnArmyVeteran]

17. Yes, you have it right. And their view on morality contrasts with the Bibles they profess to read.