68% Afghanistans support US presence.

[BootinUp]

From a recent poll as reported on This Week. Amanpour interviewing Gates.

I know this will drop like a rock propelled downward, but its worthy of some consideration.

I think Gates is making a good case for the current strategy to be given a chance. This is not a reconstruction effort, it is to improve security in the region.

[bigtree]

1. July was the deadliest month there yet

'improving security?"

[BootinUp]

14. The answer to your implied question is

That the strategy is still being ramped up, Gates indicated they expected this to be a very tough period.

[bigtree]

22. 'tough period' You mean more killing and maiming.

That's an unacceptable price for such dubious goals. And, it's contradictory on its face.

Our presence and activity has sparked and escalated a violent resistance. The plan is to increase the aggravating forces to suppress the resistance to that force presence. Why should we believe that will result in anything but more resistant violence and mayhem? I don't see any defining end to all of that; just more of the same.

[Warren Stupidity]

37. perhaps the death squads will help us save face?

[Freetradesucks]

76. Yet where is the anger? Where are the protests?

Just because it's a Dem in the Whitehouse doesn't mean shit to me, it's still a stupid war.

[Oregone]

2. So we're going to start polling foreign populations to determine national security policy?

[BootinUp]

9. Its an indicator

to consider when all I see around here is "Its hopeless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[Oregone]

15. Yeah, it indicates how bad the US is losing

If that many people want the US there, and the US still can't control vast sections of the country while their soldiers' deaths escalate, then those other 32% of the people must really, really, really not want em there and have the means to prevent it.

An advance military force is losing against a minority insurgency...pitiful

[Raineyb]

31. Yeah it's an indicator of someone making a shit load of money off of our presence there.

I don't give a shit what this poll, whose accuracy I doubt, says. We have no business being there. Period end of story.

[obxhead]

27. Might as well. When we poll the US population and it clearly

supports a position we do the opposite anyway.

[Warren Stupidity]

3. you cannot conduct a valid opinion poll in an insurgency.

you do understand that, don't you?

[BootinUp]

5. No. nt

[Warren Stupidity]

7. excellent.

[NNN0LHI]

11. No? Put a gun in my face and I will tell you I like you a lot

That may not be the truth but that is what I would say.

Don

[BootinUp]

17. I would argue against your point

but it fails on its own.

[Raineyb]

38. That explains this OP of fail. n/t

[unhappycamper]

4. The best way to improve security is for the United States to get out. n/t

[BootinUp]

6. Because it worked so well the last time. nt

[G_j]

13. yea, too bad we're not still in Vietnam

what a shame.

:sarcasm:

[wtmusic]

28. If the hippies had allowed us to win in 'Nam

we could have prevented the spread of commu-...er, nevermind.

[Taitertots]

45. The millions of people murdered by the North probably think it was

[G_j]

50. oh great, now we get to argue

if Vietnam was a just war (on a liberal, progessive forum?)

what a waste of time..

[Taitertots]

66. Who said it was a just war? It can be both unjust and the ending cost millions of innocent lives

Like it or not (I don't) we are in Afghanistan. Either way we should probably find a way to leave that doesn't guarantee that millions of innocent people will die, like we did to the Vietnamese.

[unhappycamper]

20. Really?

Do you think the United States should still be in Vietnam? Was our occupation of that country justified? According to everything I've read (and experienced) we got into Vietnam over a lie. Remember the Gulf of Tonkin?

How about Cambodia? (I was there also.)

Let's face it. The United States screwed the pooch in Southeast Asia also.

[BootinUp]

23. Leaving a vacuum in Afghanistan

is what I was referring to.

[unhappycamper]

29. There is a civil war going on in Afghanistan.

The last person to conquer Afghanistan was Genghis Khan in 1219.

The Brits tried twice and had their asses handed to them.

The Russians tried it also and had their asses handed to them.

And we will have our asses handed to us also.


Want to find out how to fuck up in Afghanistan? Occupy it.




Read up on how the Brits managed to fuck up their first occupation.

[BootinUp]

41. I am not as sure as you.

You consider it hopeless. I think we could have done better, it was not handled well for many years. I want this administration to be given a chance to implement their strategy.

There was an OP-ED in NYT that I found interesting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/opinion/01lafortune.html?ref=opinion

[unhappycamper]

42. I think hopeless decribes our situation there.

Read some history.

[EFerrari]

56. That piece is riddled with factual errors. The main one is

that a "Taliban win" would endanger the Pakistani government. That is the domino theory reloaded.

It's also not true. Pakistan did fine when the Talibs were in power in Afghanistan. In fact, it is the American presence in Afghanistan (not to mention drone attacks in Pakistan killing civilians) that is fueling the insurgency in Pakistan.

[BootinUp]

58. Most would disagree with your views on the Taliban. Including

most Afghanistan people.

[EFerrari]

59. I didn't give you my views on the Taliban.

Maybe part of the problem here is that you don't distinguish between opinion and objective reality.

[BootinUp]

60. Your view is that they are not destabilizing force

in Pakistan. That is absurd. eom.

[EFerrari]

62. No, I didn't say that. n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

40. Like one of those Orecs? Are they really any good?

[MH1]

12. Security for the Taliban and compliant men.

Women would merely become property again.

(Not that the Karzai regime has made a lot of progress in that regard, but there has been some movement at least. All gone when the Taliban retake control.)

[Unvanguard]

8. People prefer to buy into a worldview where all the costs are on one side.

It's unfortunate.

There are very good reasons to get out of Afghanistan. But helping the Afghan people is probably not one of them.

[G_j]

10. I should believe Gates

why? :shrug:

I saw the interview, he was on to propagandize war.

[Oregone]

18. Oh come on...its not like he's hiding anything!

:)

Wikileaks ensures that

[BootinUp]

34. It was an ABC/ Wash.Post poll I believe. nt

[msongs]

16. money may not buy love but it can buy lots of temporary "friends" nt

[kiva]

19. And 56% of Americans oppose the US presence in Afghanistan.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/29/poll.iraq.troop.withdrawal/index.html

[Unvanguard]

21. It says they oppose the war. It doesn't say they support withdrawal.

Little difference, you might think, but it actually might matter a lot in polling.

[MH1]

24. Wording of poll questions makes a huge difference in the response.

Ask whether the "US should admit defeat in Afghanistan" and let's see what the answers are. Or how about, "Should the US allow the Taliban to regain control of Afghanistan?" or "Should the US government stop funding the US troops who are currently deployed in Afghanistan?"

[Chan790]

25. You've made a key mistake...

they don't care what 56% of Americans think.

What are you going to do? Vote for the GOPer promising withdrawal? The choice is between person who is going to support and continue the war; person who is going to support and continue the war & person who is going to support and continue the war.

Welcome to the angst idealistic progressives have felt on every damned issue of the past 30 years.

[kiva]

32. For the first time in over 35 years I am not going

to vote for a Representative this November. Mine voted for war funding while talking about why we can't afford decent health care and need to cut education; I will not vote R, but I also will not vote for anyone who supports funding this war above the needs of the people of this country.

[Oregone]

44. Just dont vote for these vampires and you are fine by us:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8844666&mesg_id=8844666

[wtmusic]

26. AccuPoll™ sponsored by General Dynamics, GE, and ATK

Lies, damn lies, and statistics.

[chrisa]

30. lol. A poll conducted by the US.

Of course it will be in our favor.

The reality is, the vast majority of Afghans hate us and want us to leave. Time to leave the country and stop wasting American lives there.

[BootinUp]

33. I understand why you don't want to believe it. nt

[RetroLounge]

35. unrec'd for the vast stupidity of believeing this poll

:puke:

RL

[Warren Stupidity]

36. I considered rec-ing it for the same reason.

[unhappycamper]

39. I also unrecced. n/t

[VMI Dem]

43. A thumbs up for the Bush Doctrine.

Obama's War will make us more secure.

[IndianaGreen]

46. LMAO. Who did they interview, the Karzai people?

Of course the Kabul gangsters want ISAF to stick around. They don't want to see their corpses dragged through the streets of Kabul.

[readmoreoften]

47. Total propaganda. You mean 68% of Afghans working for Karzai and living in Kabul.

Anyone who knows anything about Afghanistan will laugh at this idiotic attempt at propaganda. The majority of people don't live in Kabul. Sure, many of the upper class in Kabul and government workers want a US presence. We're lining their pockets and fighting their enemies.

But the majority of Afghanis don't live in the city and there is no way to accurately "poll" the majority. Even in the cities there have been working class uprisings against both the Taliban and the US, but those people are always killed for supporting the US.

This is not a scientific poll. It's IMPOSSIBLE to have a scientific poll of an entire people during an insurgent war with the vast majority of the population (as in 90%) living in rural areas with no electricity or communication. Ergo, total propaganda.

We are disappearing and torturing people in plain sight, even in Kabul. We do not have 68% of support of the Afghan people. And it's ludicrous to pretend we do.

Read some real reporters who spend about half their living time in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Like, for example, Anand Gopal. http://anandgopal.com/ an independent journalist who writes for everyone from the WSJ to the Christian Science Monitor to the Nation.

[BootinUp]

48. *** About the Poll referenced in the OP ***

Since so many are casting aspersions at the poll I referenced here is some information about how the polling was conducted.

As part of its award-winning "Where Things Stand" series, ABC News has sponsored five national public opinion polls in Afghanistan since 2005 and six in Iraq since 2004. Its coverage of these unique surveys has won several national news awards, including two Emmys, the first in the history of the news Emmys to cite public opinion polls.

A new poll in Afghanistan finds hopes for a brighter future soaring, bolstered by a broad rally in support for newly re-elected Hamid Karzai, improved development efforts and economic gains. Each of these surveys has been conducted through face-to-face interviews, in Dari, Pashto, Arabic and Kurdish, by trained interviewers with random national samples of Afghan and Iraqi adults. Question subjects have ranged from living conditions and experience of violence to personal aspirations, economic and emotional well-being and political and social attitudes.

snip

In Afghanistan, the first ABC News survey found difficult living conditions but strong support for the ousting of the Taliban regime and high expectations for future development. ABC's subsequent surveys through January 2009, however, found growing frustration with the slow pace of development, continued and growing experience of violence and lessened objections to the Taliban in some areas. The latest poll, in December 2009, showed sharp improvements in public views – buoyed by political, economic and military efforts – but significant challenges still remaining. These data have underscored the link between violence levels, development efforts, the presence of both U.S. and Afghan forces and support for their mission.

snip

Each of these surveys employed rigorous area-probability sampling based on the latest available population data, with randomized household and respondent-selection procedures and back-checks for quality control. They've been supported with photos and video from interviews in the field, and in some cases with journal entries from interviewers describing their sometimes-harrowing field work experiences.




MORE...

[EFerrari]

54. Before there was Fox, there was ABC. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

49. So does 100% of Taliban and Al Queda recruiters.

[L0oniX]

51. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

[Motown_Johnny]

52. 68% POLLED support ....... go out into the mine fields and ask again

[Kurovski]

53. Then they should all FUCKING ENLIST in their war!

Problem solved, America goes home.

Oh holy FUCK, but the bullshit is twenty miles high!

[Edweird]

55. At least you already know advocating RW policy will get you massive negative recs.

You've got that going for you. It isn't much, but whatever.
The real question is why you insist on posting it anyway.

[BootinUp]

57. Clearly I think some facts are not given equal weight

at DU. Inheriting a poorly executed war and attempting to institute a better strategy that includes more than just military strategy, but foreign policy changes, economic considerations, etc. is not a RW policy. It is part of the job of governing, and it is generally accepted that we do have some responsibility to clean up the mess before we leave, of course within certain limits.

[Edweird]

63. Hey, whatever works for you. Reality doesn't agree with you, tho.

While your 'truth lies somewhere in the middle' shtick is good for a laugh, this isn't an appropriate subject.
Our occupation makes Afghanistan and the US less secure. There will be a bloody mess when we leave, whether that is tomorrow or 50 years from now. The only relevant question is how many US servicemembers will be sacrificed. It is RW policy no matter how you try to spin it.

[BootinUp]

64. this isn't an appropriate subject? nt

[Warren Stupidity]

67. we tend to dismiss the bullshitty facts. nt.

[BootinUp]

68. .

http://abcnews.go.com/PollingUnit/views-improve-sharply-afghanistan-criticisms-us-stay-high/story?id=9511961

Hopes for a brighter future have soared in Afghanistan, bolstered by a broad rally in support for the country's re-elected president, improved development efforts and economic gains. Blame on the United States and NATO for violence has eased – but their overall ratings remain weak.

In one key shift, the latest poll by ABC News, the BBC and ARD German TV finds that sharply more Afghans now see the Taliban as the main source of their country's strife, while many fewer blame the United States or its allies – significant progress in a central aim of the new commander of U.S. and NATO forces, Gen. Stanley McChrystal.

Click here for PDF of analysis with charts and full questionnaire.


Click here for charts on the results.


Click here for photos from the field.


Another, basic change is larger still: After steep declines in recent years there's been a 30-point advance in views that the country is headed in the right direction; 70 percent now say so, the most since 2005. Afghans' expectations that their own lives will be better a year from now have jumped by 20 points, to 71 percent, a new high. And there's been a 14-point rise in expectations that the next generation will have a better life, to 61 percent.

Many challenges remain. Complaints about official corruption are higher than ever. Views of the United States and NATO's performance remain poor, with six in 10 rating their work negatively. And accounts of local violence have held steady, with many Afghans still blaming allied forces for civilian casualties. All these raise the question of whether the overall improvements can hold as Hamid Karzai's honeymoon fades and the fighting continues.

[lunatica]

61. 68% of which Afghans?

Did they call the small towns all over the country that have no electricity or phone service? Or is that 58% of the people who live in Kabul and who work for Karzai?

[BootinUp]

65. #48 has info on the poll

if you are really interested.

[upi402]

69. won "national news awards"

I had to stop right there. The media is utter propaganda. Sorry, I was with you for a while. These propagandists awarding and rewarding other liars and propagandists does not validate anything, just the contrary to anyone paying attention.

[stevedesmond]

70. How do we know the poll was not fake?

And how do we know that many or all of these respondents didn't answer "yes" because they fear the pollster is really an undercover pro-invader agent?

[BootinUp]

71. I think it passes muster, but read it for yourself

#48 has a link, there is more in depth analysis on the second page of the article.

[BootinUp]

72. kick

:kick:

[TheKentuckian]

73. First, who could possibly trust the methodology and second who gives a fuck?

[daleo]

74. 68% were in favor of the Soviet occupation too

I read it in Tass in 1988. The methodology was flawless. Some of the best demographers in the USSR designed the survey. Only cynics and anti-Soviet parasites doubted it.

[RetroLounge]

75. You're being such a good german...

:eyes:

RL