To clarify -- it's an Islamic Community Center and not a Mosque

[LostinVA]

It will have a prayer room, which I simply see no problem with, and as regular posters know, I have problems with many of Islam's cultural beliefs that are anti-women and anti-gay.

Is a hospital a Cathedral because it has a chapel? Is a university? Is a YMCA a church because the "C" stands for "Christian"?

[xchrom]

1. Recommend

[WillParkinson]

2. Honestly, do you think it matters?

They've whipped themselves into a frenzy and they won't care that they're wrong. They never do.

[LostinVA]

3. No, Will, I really don't think it does

But, I guess I had to try one more time.

[AlabamaLibrul]

4. KICK KICK KICK KICK KICK AND REC!!!

We have members of the DU populace still buying into the meme.

[LostinVA]

15. Too many, alas n/t

[saltpoint]

5. Mayor Bloomberg, take him or leave him, has no

problem with an Islamic Community Center located near the site.

http://manhattan.ny1.com/content/top_stories/122239/bloomberg-repeatedly-defends-mosque-by-wtc-site


The thing would be in New York City, which is not exactly known for its monolithic ethnic or religious demographics. It's known as an extremely diverse urban culture.

If someone who actually LIVES in New York City doesn't like a diverse cultural landscape I suggest he or she move to Hamilton, Ohio.

[LostinVA]

6. Yeah, it's a scary day when I 100% agree with Bloomberg on something

[saltpoint]

7. LOL. Yep.

Hi, LostinVA.

Great OP. Thanks.

[LostinVA]

8. Thanks -- it has been very frustrating

The last few days re: the Islamic Community Center.

[saltpoint]

9. The people who object to it seem to be people in

Dallas and Cheyenne and San Diego and Mobile.

New Yorkers don't seem to be rating it high at all on the index of calamities in the making.

That ought to be a clear signal to the shriekers, but of course they keep right on shrieking.

[jgraz]

10. Even worse!!!

Clearly, it's a "center" for turning the entire "community" into "Islamic" terrorists.

ACORN!! TIDES!!! OLIGARHY!!!


(Coming soon to a blackboard near you)

[LostinVA]

14. lol -- I have been waiting to hear that one point, actually

ie turning the whole community into Muslims.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

19. You misspelled "Islamist".

:crazy:

[jgraz]

20. But I was openly weeping while I typed it

I can't help it, I just love my country. :cry:

[LostinVA]

21. Typos are forgiven when strong emotions are involved

lol

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

22. You better not slip again. Advice: set up a keyboard macro.

Like Ctrl-Shift-I → "Islamofascist".

And never, ever, ever use the words "Muslim", "Islam", or "Islamic" again. That's commie muslim islamofascist terrorist atheist parlance. Not for the Righteous and Wholesome Soldiers of ChristAmerica.

[LostinVA]

23. rofl

You need to stary off of Stormfront (JOKING!).

[uppityperson]

11. k&r again. Good comparisons. Guess I'm a christo-fascist because I grew up swimming @ the Y

However, that stupid ymca song should be banned

[a la izquierda]

12. Nice post.

To be fair...many of the problems you have with Islam, I have with Christianity ;) But your premise is right on. I'm disturbed at how many on DU have issues with this...and I grew up in sight of the towers (in NJ) and my mother lost many acquaintances.

[LostinVA]

13. I also have those same problems with Christianity!

lol

[RainDog]

16. exactly. it's not one religion or another - it's beliefs that they share

that are homophobic, misogynistic, xenophobic and based upon coercion rather than compassion that are the problem - no matter what the belief - even if it's not religious.

[LostinVA]

18. Yuppers

[a la izquierda]

I figured you did

:)

[LostinVA]

25. Don't care for all the intolerant "isms"!

[a la izquierda]

24. I figured you did

:)

[Starry Messenger]

17. kick!

[Igel]

26. And we continue to play stupid semantic games.

In English, the word mosque has traditionally been used for any Muslim place of public worship. It really just requires some consistency and four walls. Or at least 3. Not sure about the roof.

"Mosque" is the English equivalent of a variety of things that Muslims call by different names. You can call something a masgid (or masjid) or a musallah or a husseyniyyah or a imambargah (the last two the same, IIRC). Or you can call them all "mosques," as long as the distinction is of no relevance.

"Mosque" is not an Arabic word. The imam where I used to live routinely called his "prayer hall" a mosque. The English word covered both "prayer hall" and "masjid" perfectly fine. If the distinction was important, he'd make the distinction. Otherwise, he was more interested in communication, both being understood and understanding. This is not a trivial point. In fact, it's the crux of the claim.

This particular quibble is being used to merely shut people up, to stifle debate and denigrate those who might say something that injures the ever so delicate sensibilities of others.

If you feel better, think of the use of "mosque" in this debate as a form of metonymy. The Islamic Center will contain a mosque so we can call it a mosque. If not, still consider this: In building the Islamic Center they want to build a mosque. This particular mosque won't meet all the requirements for any of the Sunni 4 fiqhs, therefore this mosque will be a musallah. But it will still be built, or at least built out.

Unless, of course, the claim is that the Islamic Center will not contain anything that is called a "mosque" in standard English (not a particular jargon of English).

[uppityperson]

31. Thank you and it is like what "church" means for a certain group

which can be the building, the people, the activity. Thanks for your in depth answer, please continue to educate us.

"9/11 Mosque" sounds scary and this is being used to perpetuate fear rather than trying to understand and get along with others.

[Douglas Carpenter]

27. and It is to have a board composed of Muslim, Christian and Jewish leaders

Oz Sultan, the programming director for the center, said the complex was based on Jewish community centers and Y.M.C.A.'s in Manhattan. It is to have a board composed of Muslim, Christian and Jewish leaders and is intended to create a national model of moderate Islam.

“We are looking to build bridges between faiths,” Mr. Sultan said in an interview.

City officials, particularly Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, have forcefully defended the project on the grounds of religious freedom, saying that government has no place dictating where a house of worship is located. The local community board has given overwhelming backing to the project, and the city's landmarks commission is expected to do the same on Tuesday.

“What is great about America, and particularly New York, is we welcome everybody, and if we are so afraid of something like this, what does that say about us?” Mr. Bloomberg asked recently.

http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/07/31/the-defamation-league/?xid=rss-topstories#ixzz0vIfS1g3b

[jberryhill]

28. Who cares? They can build what they want on their property.

I don't care if it is a mosque, an amusement park or a drive-through liquor store.

If they want to build whatever they want on property lawfully theirs, have at it.

[spanone]

29. but a mosque sounds really, really, really scary

[Ted_White]

30. Cons are just making much ado about nothing. Their xenophobia is showing once again.

[Posteritatis]

32. Not just cons; there's plenty of people here who don't get that. (nt)

[sl8]

33. Citation?

A lot of the news articles I've read refer to it as a community center & mosque. Is it not? What is it that makes a mosque a mosque?

I don't care if someone builds a mosque, cathedral, synagogue, or a giant pentagram there, but I am curious about the "mosque" v. "not a mosque" distinction.