One of those epiphanies - neither party really gives a damn what voters want

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

2 recent threads around here made me realize that in a very sudden cystallization

Polling has shown results like voters actually WANTING single payer, the public option and Bush impeachment

MOST Americans are for single payer and/or public option
http://www.healthcare-now.org/another-poll-shows-majori ... /

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/20/new-poll-77-pe ...

impeaching Bush for wiretapping
http://www.democrats.com/bush-impeachment-poll-2

Did any of that make any difference when these issues were before our reps?
Not only No, but Hell no! as our friend Sarah would say.

We also appear to have a situation where what was formerly referenced as the third rail of politics, Medicare and Social Security is in for a bi-partisan evisceration under the guise of an "impartial" commission headed up and staffed with deficit hawks and privatizers. It's not the third rail anymore because the juice has been cut to the rail and both parties can grasp it with impunity.

We 're at the point where the people in office are not only not scared of us and the power of our ballot, they are all but yawning at us. Why? They just don't care. The agenda will be carried out by either party, they are interchangeable players.

Obama is carrying out the Bush education policies. They are pretty much the same thing.

Our President wants warrantless access to our internet activity. He has done NOTHING to scale back the unitary executive abuses of the Bush administration and is in fact furthering them. Every word that came out of his mouth concerning FISA was political posturing.

Not only do the reps and parties not care about election fraud, they openly accept it! Why did the SC Democratic Party accept as it's nominee an unknown who received more votes than voters? Why aren't SC Dems all up in their case?

Why does all Dem reform seem to preserve private delivery systems and profits wherever it can? Why is the Obama administration staffed from top to bottom with neoliberals and New Democrats or actual Republican holdovers?

I will now openly apologize to all the people I have insulted over the years for voting for Ralph Nadar. They had a much deeper understanding of the validity of his core message than I did. But I'm finally there. 10 years late, but now I finally do get it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

1. The real third rail in party politics is the DOD and neither party will touch it. K&R

Third rail, hell, it's the untouchable most sacred of sacred cows.

[Overseas]

33. +1. //nt

[Joe Fields]

43. believe it or not, the last person that touched it was Dick Cheney.

(don't tase me, bro!!!)

[Greyhound]

2. Welcome.

[Edweird]

3. Sucks, huh?

[AlabamaLibrul]

4. I agree. So when will the people as a whole do something about it?

I'm talking true change. I'm talking primary challengers en masse from both sides. Tea partiers want batshit crazy and there are somewhat sane Republicans not in a hurry to oblige. Liberals want someone who isn't the same Democrats we've been getting since Reagan and being told that it's the best we get.

I'm talking a popular movement for Congress to be proportionally represented. I'm talking about a real discussion with all of America about what is truly wrong with our system. I'm talking about getting our leaders out from the stranglehold of corporations. I'm talking about finally getting our leaders to LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE.

When will the time come?

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

9. The people have been abandoned by their leaders. We need new leaders

We need a bottoms up movement.

I really think the time is now. Too much bad stuff happening to the people- no jobs, losing their homes

[rateyes]

29. The revolution is coming in most of our lifetimes.

[bvar22]

16. When?

It will come when the Working Class & Poor, Democrats & Republicans, realize we have more in common with each other than we have with the Ruling Class in either political party.

[TBF]

36. And also the so-called "middle class" who thinks they are better

than everyone else in their McMansions, driving their Prius' around (yes, I'm talking about some dems here too).

Once those folks realize they aren't part of the ruling club (or admit that they are and leave us the fuck alone) - then we can accomplish something.

It is most definitely coming, and maybe faster than we realized given the policies this administration has embraced. There haven't even been crumbs this time around - Obama is on a "privatize everything" crusade. Ronald Reagan couldn't get this kind of stuff passed but Obama is calling it "hope and change" and challenging even Social Security.

Solidarity, friends, without it we all go down.

[JoeyT]

27. Unfortunately, even if there's a movement to get politicians that actually represent

the peoples' wishes elected, the vote would probably just be rigged. Witness how happy both parties seem to be with privatized electronic voting. We'd have to be willing to take to the streets and riot en masse over it when it happened. And I don't mean "Peacefully protest". I mean riot.

Welcome to DU. Always good to see other liberals from the south. ;)

[uppityperson]

41. What office are you running for?

Yes, you can complain without running for office, but so many of your posts seem to be bashing Democrats that one can only assume you are running for office. Don't be shy, let us know who you are, where you are running and why. You might get some votes here.

[Starry Messenger]

5. Yep.

Their purpose is to preserve power, and the power is capitalism.

[Hydra]

39. Bingo!

And since everyone seems to think Capitalism is the only system that "works"(for who?), we won't see anything new until that meme runs its course.

[Cleita]

6. You've got that right and until we take the money

out of politics, they will only listen to the highest bidder. We only get some campaign promises thrown our way to get our votes that are immediately forgotten after they take the oath of office.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

14. How do we take the money out of politics when it's been enshrined by our corrupt SCOTUS

as "free speech"?

I guess some kind of Constitutional Amendment regarding the nature of corporations in particular - that they aren't people

The reps should want to do something about it as now their power has been completely co-opted by the corps -

"Do what I want or I will bury you in negative advertising"

It all boils down to Citizens United.

I have stated before that I think that the Supreme Court should be impeached for that decision. It's treasonous for the fact that it gives foreign nations who own corporations and multi-national corporations a way to meddle in our government. That fact was openly argued in court and the Supremes paid no attention to it.

Maybe that is the easiest, most direct path to take - start a movement to impeach the Supreme Court for Citizens United.

Start printing the bumper stickers!!!!

[Cleita]

22. We need another revolution, not of guns, but this time

of bucking the establishment for real until Washington turns into a shell with no power and some neo-classic crumbling marble monuments. I'm already learning how to spin and grow my own food but I'm an old woman due for the cremation oven in a few years. Young families need to pool their resources, buy some farmland and start living off the grid by making their own food and stuff like the Amish do. If two-thirds of the population did this, Wall Street and the Washington establishment would crumble because there would be no more money for them to tax and to fill their bank accounts with. Yes, laws would have to be obeyed with lip service but mostly governing would be done within the commune and maybe a synod of communes. Shit, if religions can pull this off, why not ordinary people?

And yes we should start impeaching everyone who needs to be impeached.

[Hydra]

40. Don't worry, they'll make growing your own illegal

People obsessed with power and control don't know when to stop- it's like crack.

[TheKentuckian]

44. They are now largely immune to such tactics. it is they who are dismantling our economy

Their customer base is global and the world middle class will be dispersed as not to be able to ever put such a gun to their heads again.

Not saying their still isn't merit to such a concept just that it isn't going to bloody the noses of the overlords at all. That was a move when we were pacified with Clinton now it they who are drawing us down.

[Cleita]

23. Hiccup.

[IndianaJoe]

7. I've got serious doubts about polls that say most Americans

want Bush impeached due to warrantless wiretapping. Most Americans wouldn't give a shit about that.
They should, but they don't.

And I seriously doubt that most Americans even know what single payer is.

Aside from the stupidity and apathy of most Americans, we also have some real systemic issues. We've got so many "checks and balances" operative in our system, both constitutional and extra-constitutional, that we really can't do anything really meaningful about our problems any more.

[Booster]

17. It seems to me we don't have enough checks & balances. Oh,

we have enough for "us", the people, but show me the checks & balances for the Pentagon, or Arlington Cemetary. "They" are checking "us", but no one, not one damn soul, is checking "them". What baffles me is why aren't "we" upset about the trillions (TRILLIONS) being stolen, lost, unaccountable, etc. Everybody's just accepting that "oh, that's just the way government operates". BULLSHIT.

[NoPasaran]

8. Here's another news flash for you, if you can handle it

Ready?

















Sure?



















Don't say I didn't warn you...





















Santa Claus is a myth!

[bvar22]

18. Santa Claus is a myth!

So are "Free Markets",
"Free Trade",
and the Giant "Invisible Hand".

[Triana]

10. Go back and watch George Carlin's American Dream again

....it was posted here a couple times in the last day or so.

In other words, you are absolutely right.

[Skidmore]

11. Creating dystopias...

Thinking along similar lines only St. Ralph is not in consideration as savior of mankind for me. What does exist is a mishmash of of right and left dystopian yearnings, somewhere between the Handmaid's Tale and Children of Men, with a dash of Doomsday thrown in. Blow up civilization to save it, when you aren't analyzing and organizing it to oblivion. The gnashing of teeth and the outrage and the horror are circus, the politicians and wealthy the showmen, and the masses are fools falling for the shellgames and propaganda put out by all sides, Ralph's included. No one really wants to do more than take care of number one while cloaking that endeavor in the verbage of social outrage or dissent.

[hfojvt]

12. question: if the public really wanted a public option

then why would they elect Republicans in 2010?

[Cleita]

24. Because there are a lot of brainwashed idiots out there

who don't know Medicare is a single payer health plan run by the government.

[tomp]

38. to punish the dems for not giving it to them when they had a chance? nt

[Hydra]

42. We didn't get a public option with "Socialist" President Obama

So...how does keeping the Dems in power get us that?

[w4rma]

13. Obama is *not* the Democratic Party. He conned us by pretending he wasn't a DLCer, but he is only

part of the Democratic Party. There will be a lot of DLCers who will be kicked to the curb this November and the vast majority of progressives will keep their seats. The Democratic Party is about to become much more progressive, with the exception of this corporatist White House.

[OmahaBlueDog]

19. I think he conned himself

Between Doris Kearns Goodwin's "Team of Rivals" and the collegial atmosphere he experienced as a Senator, I honestly believe that he thought he could find common ground with Republicans on important issues, and do great things. He's President, now, and things are very different. His Senate friends like Tom Coburn want nothing to do with helping him.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

20. The only rivals would have been if he had appointed some liberal Dems

Every one else seems to share the same pro-corporate, privatizing mindset.

[Hannah Bell]

15. voters didn't want war, but they got it. they want single payer but they can't have it.

they want to keep social security, but they're going to cut it.

they wanted fixed benefit pensions but they got 401ks.

they don't want public unions busted but they're going to get it.

they want to keep their local school systems, but they can't.

the ruling class does what it likes & tells us we like it too.

but we don't.

[Lint Head]

21. Our form of government morphed from Democratic Republic to

Corporate Greed. Or nation is CG.

[TorchTheWitch]

25. better late than never

This is why I've been an Independent for over 20 years. No, I didn't leave the Dem party - THEY left ME. Every one of my votes has been for the "lesser of two evils". But, at this point, the two parties are pretty interchangeable. Since Clinton, some of the worst shit has been passed under Dem leadership... outsourcing, massive deregulation, and now this ghastly health insurance scam. Under Bush, the Dems were pretty much all wanting war as much as the Repukes and even at this point very few want out.

George Carlin was always right on this... neither party gives a shit about regular folks, and we just have the illusion of democracy. It constantly astonishes me how supposedly politically savy people have bought into the Team R vs. Team D propaganda that is necessary to continue to not only keep the masses fooled but too busy fighting each other to notice what is really going on even when it's as blatantly obvious as it's become. Carlin's "nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care" is dead on, and it'll stay that way until the average person spends a good chunk of their life in utter misery barely able to survive.

[flyarm]

26. I have said similar since I went to Iowa and SC to work for dems..there are no two parties..

but one party with one money pot in the middle..and you are nit invited to their party..you just have to pay for it!

You pay in your jobs, your money, your children in endless wars, your homes, your health,education for your children, and your freedom!

[IndianaGreen]

28. George Carlin warned us that the people did not own the country

Carlin used humour to enlighten his audiences about larger truths:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHd_jXtp4Rs

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

30. Carlin and Bill Hicks.

I am so very sorry that Bill Hicks died prematurely.

He could have really enlightened a lot of people.

Jon Stewart is like their sunny step brother, but lacks their cynicism and darkness, which serves to point out the greater importance of their commentary as opposed to his. He ridicules but seems to accept it's just all a part of the game - they ridiculed and rejected the game entirely.

[slay]

32. Luckily with the age of the internet anyone can be enlightened by Bill Hicks and I suggest they do:

Bill Hicks on Marketing - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDW_Hj2K0wo

bill hicks - evolution - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baeT3g7udho

Bill Hicks - Religion - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxsGyljd6B0

Bill Hicks - Positive Drug Story - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX1CvW38cHA

Bill Hicks: "I'M SO GLAD WE ARE FREE" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs-nHQYY6Fg

Even in death Bill Hicks makes a huge impact. :evilgrin:

[slay]

31. I said something very similar to my sister today Phoebe

at the time when i mocked Nader in the past i was not as well informed as i am today. i think a lot of people are realizing this as they read threads like the ones your pointed out. many threads here, at other truth seeking websites, even some recent articles in the NY Times and Washington Post have only furthered to confirm what we now know to be true - there is no party of the people. Can we save the Democratic Party? We do have Kucinich, Grayson, and other good ones - mostly in the house. The senate though. That is a true problem. To give only 100 people in a nation this size that much power has proven too great a temptation to those 100 to misuse that power for extremely corrupt purposes. We must confront the Democrats about this betrayal every chance we get. We have to try to hold them and the media accountable.

From a 1986 interview with Gore Vidal: "After all, half the people don't vote. We don't have political parties: we have one political party with two right wings called the Democratic and the Republican".

Quote from: http://www.axiongrafix.com/Vidal.html

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

34. That's why the GOP is disingenuous

They seem hung up on this idea of reminding voters "Obama promised you change and you didn't get it!" when they've been hindering that change and never wanted it all along.

[Festivito]

35. They care -- somewhere between a damn and a majority.

As it becomes asymptotically closer to not-a-damn, putting Repubs back in loses our last bit of say. McCain would have dismantled SS and Medicare by now in a 9/11 style fall and with full PR approval voiced over the TV.

So, you want to suggest we should have 3rd-party divided ourselves to let him win?

[blindpig]

37. Yes

Isn't it entertaining?


Getting pretty damn hard to scare us with what the other guy(or gal) might do when your guys are doing it themselves.

[maryf]

45. kick

maybe some others will get it...these epiphanies are amazing, hey?