After 378 years, N.H. family farm goes up for sale

[Contrary1]

:cry: The only good news in this story is that the land can't be developed into strip malls or condos.

"DOVER, N.H. — In 1632, John Tuttle arrived from England to a settlement near the Maine-New Hampshire border, using a small land grant from King Charles I to start a farm.

Eleven generations and 378 years later, his field-weary descendants — arthritic from picking fruits and vegetables and battered by competition from supermarkets and pick-it-yourself farms — are selling their spread, which is among the oldest continuously operated family farms in America.

"We've been here for 40 years, doing what we love to do," said Lucy Tuttle, 65, who runs the 134-acre farm with brother Will. "But we're not able to work to our full capacity any longer, unfortunately."

Tuttle added that she and her brother and their sister have done their best "to lovingly discourage" their children from becoming generation No. 12. "We would be saddling them with a considerable amount of debt," she said..."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38509917/ns/us_news/

[LWolf]

1. That's sad.

Those of us with no family "roots" probably find it harder to imagine leaving something like that behind.

How many families who want to maintain a smaller family farm could afford $3.35 million?

[Recursion]

2. That's sad... and just when small farming is getting a market again

The whole locovore movement seems designed for this kind of farm :(

Too bad our ag policy is more eager to help Monsanto and ADM than these people. And, hey, Obama, where's all that money for small farms and regional food networks you campaigned on? And where's that packer ban? Ag policy was what made me notice you in the primaries, damn it.

[phasma ex machina]

15. Monsanto MAKES ag policy with greater arrogance than a bankster making new banking regs.

One of the farmers in my extended family says that the powers-that-be can jail a farmer for using seed grown from Mo'satan's patented seed.

Another farmer in my extended family is about to give it all up due to crushing debt.

Plenty of money for useless banksters but no money for farmers that grow the food that America eats. The powers-that-be are insane.

Edited for the lulz.



:rofl:

[MajorChode]

19. You can't be jailed for using Monsanto's seed without a license

...any more than you can be jailed for illegally ripping music or movies. You can be sued.

I believe the farmer in your extended family gave you some bad information. The person in question who I'm sure they are referring to went to jail for concealing and destroying evidence in a civil case in direct defiance of a court order. That is a crimal action punishable by jail time. Patent infringement is covered under civil law.

[druidity33]

21. look again Major...

Debtor's prisons are making a comeback. And for some reason they only seem to be jailing the people who owe corporations money. So you get sued by Monsanto, can't pay... it's a good thing they put you in jail, because you wouldn't have anywhere to live since they took your home and assets.

Coming to a county near you...

:(

[MajorChode]

23. Obsfucation

First of all, if someone gets sued by Monsanto, it's because they knowingly infringed on their patent. If you think Monsanto can actually make money buy suing people, you are mistaken. They almost always loose money in the process. They sue people to protect their intellectual property which is completely worthless if they don't enforce their licenses. Nobody is forcing these people to use Monsanto products and to violate their patents.

Nobody is being jailed for owing corporations money either. They are being jailed for ignoring court summons and violating court orders. Furthermore this is a tangential issue that has just about squat to do with people infringing on Monsanto's patents.

[druidity33]

24. Bullshit and you damn well know it.

People ARE getting sued by Monsanto because they are unknowingly growing Monsanto polluted crops. Ever heard of wind borne pollination?


just a tidbit from this article:

"but the story is the same all over the world: genetically modified crops are invading fields close by (and some that are not so close by), contaminating both the organic food industry and the " conventional" (non-GMO and non-organic) food industry."


http://www.celsias.com/article/the-global-spread-of-gmo-crops/

maybe you want to read about how they're trying to corner the market in seed?

http://blog.buzzflash.com/analysis/956

How about how they tried to manipulate Haiti into accepting their seed and pesticides as Foreign Aid (along with accompanying restrictions and fees)?

http://www.alternet.org/story/147051/haitian_farmers_refuse_monsanto%27s_seeds_and_instead_commit_to_burning_them/


As for Debtor's prisons in the US, true we don't have them per se, but we do have de facto debtors prisons:

http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/editorials/article991963.ece

http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2010/07/15/americas-new-debtor-prison-jail-time-being-given-to-those-who/

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=2229



As for teh "infringing on Monsanto's patents" meme... please, i'm not a fool. And farmers aren't either. That lie is dying a quiet death as Monsanto's global practices become clearer.

[derby378]

32. All it takes is for a couple of seeds to blow off a Monsanto truck...

...and plant themselves in a field just off the highway. If Monsanto discovers those crops before you do, they'll send their lawyers out to take your farm away with a court order for "restitution for patent infringement."

[MajorChode]

44. ...and more obfuscation

People ARE getting sued by Monsanto because they are unknowingly growing Monsanto polluted crops. Ever heard of wind borne pollination?

Then name some of them, if you can. Just one will do.

just a tidbit from this article:

"but the story is the same all over the world: genetically modified crops are invading fields close by (and some that are not so close by), contaminating both the organic food industry and the " conventional" (non-GMO and non-organic) food industry."

Cross pollination was happening long before GMO. So-called 'organic' crops represent a pretty small segment of farming overall, so does the rest of the world have to forgo the significant advantages of GMO because a small minority of farmers don't want cross-pollination which would occur with or without GMO?

[druidity33]

49. standard Bullshit again

the reason you don't "hear from" farmers that have been railroaded is because they are often FORCED TO SIGN non-disclosure agreements. Monsanto's legal department is huge for a reason. THEY BURY PEOPLE in litigation. As for Percy Schmeiser being a criminal... have you ever met the man? I have. Not only do i find his story credible, i believe him. Grow a freaking brain or maybe a heart and you would too.

Other farmers sued by Monsanto... how about Scott McAllister?
http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2010/03/08/monsanto-watch-targeting-american-farmers-with-lawyers-fear-an/

Or the Mayfield brothers?
http://www.organicconsumers.org/Monsanto/farmerssued.cfm

They have also sued Dairies, small farmer cooperatives and are in the process of suing the government of Germany. Whether what they do is completely legal or not doesn't change the fact that they use heavy handed, bullying tactics. They put small farms out of business, are responsible for the use of millions of tons of pesticide, are intentionally debilitating the Organics industry and hell bent on owning the rights to as many seeds on the planet as possible.

I'm done with you (i think). Defending Monsanto and its tactics is tantamount to playing the Devil's Advocate... but for real.

See ya, wouldn't wanna bee ya...

:eyes:

[MajorChode]

50. At least you labeled your post correctly

The two examples you provided both had signed agreements with Monsanto that they violated, so neither of them support your assertion in any way, shape, or form. So rather than support your assertion (which you can't) you claim you actually successfully contradicted me when you didn't, and you actually have the nerve to accuse me of peddling bullshit? That is rich.

I will remind you of your assertion, which you are either unable or unwilling (I suspect both) to support:

People ARE getting sued by Monsanto because they are unknowingly growing Monsanto polluted crops. Ever heard of wind borne pollination?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8860816&mesg_id=8864038

All I asked is for one example to support your assertion. I don't think this is an unreasonable request. Sorry, but your posts just don't pass the smell test.

As far as "Defending Monsanto", all I am doing is pointing out relevant facts and opinions based on relevant facts. Meanwhile you offer nothing but unsupported nonsense and obfuscation (aka bullshit).

But since you want to go down that road of obfuscation, I'm fully up to the challenge. Monsanto offers products that reduce chemical usage, reduce water usage, increase crop yields, decreases land usage, lower food prices, puts nutritional food within the budget of people who would be otherwise unable to afford it, allow crops to be grown in otherwise unproductive areas, allow millions of starving people to be fed, increase the nutritional value of crops in areas of severe nutritional deficiencies, and many other advantages. In return they have the audacity to expect compensation (albeit sometimes too aggressively), but does that make them evil? Al Gore makes millions in profit from the green energy movement. Does that make him evil? I don't think so. YMMV. On the flip side of that coin, what does the so-called 'organic' movement do that you are so willing to defend? Pretty much the opposite of what Monsanto is doing. It increases chemical usage in non-crop areas (including some heavily populated areas), it increases water usage, decreases crop yields, increases land usage, increases food prices, puts nutritional food farther out of reach for poor people, forces more land to be used in areas that could be productive in other ways, doesn't feed starving people to any tangible degree, does nothing for nutritional value, does nothing to address nutritional deficiencies in third world countries. In return for all those disadvantages, what does the so-called 'organic' food movement give us? It placates scientifically illiterate eco-hysterics who are irrationally paranoid of parts per billion synthetic substances that pose little to no health risk and scam them out of billions of dollars annually. And don't forget that the so-called 'organic' food movement is now controlled primarily by some of the same big-agra people that you think are the devil, and if you don't think they are working in ways that are against the interests of consumers and the environment, you are sadly being led down the primrose path.

So if I happen to offer inconvenient information that offends your sensibilities, so be it. At least what I offer can be supported by relevant facts.

Cheers!

[druidity33]

51. relevant facts?

Please. You haven't put any facts in your posts. You obviously know nothing about farming or farmers. And from the length of your replies and vehemency, i'm starting to suspect you work for the Chamber of Commerce or some other entity that believes big business should be able to run roughshod over people's lives and livelihoods.

You're probably a global warming denier and Nuclear industry advocate too...

:eyes:

[MajorChode]

52. Still waiting for you support your assertion

<sound of crickets>

Ad hominem attack noted.

[Arkansas Granny]

38. Google Percy Schmeiser to see what Monsanto does to some small

farmers who are unfortunate enough to have their crops pollinated by plants grown from Monsanto seed. If they save their own seed for replanting (like they have for years), Monsanto sues them for patent infringement.

[MajorChode]

43. Percy Schmeiser knowingly (and illegally) propagated Monsanto patented seed

Percy Schmeiser knowingly and intentionally used Monsanto patented seed that had spilled over to his field by his neighbor AFTER he had figured out it was Monsanto patented product, rather than replanting the seed from no less than 8 of his other fields. He continued to do so after both Monsanto and his own lawyer told him to cease and desist. You can call him "unfortunate" if you want, but that doesn't reflect reality. Crook or thief is more accurate.

...

102] The evidence of Mr. Schmeiser is that seed for his 1998 crop was saved from seed harvested in 1997 in field number 2 by his hired man Mr. Moritz. That seed was placed by Mr. Moritz in the old Ford truck, then located in field number 2, directly from the combine after it was harvested from the area of that field previously sprayed with Roundup by Mr. Schmeiser. That "testing" by him resulted, by his estimate, supported by Mr. Moritz, of about 60% of the sprayed canola plants surviving in the "good three acres" that he sprayed. The surviving plants were Roundup resistant and their seed constituted the source of seed stored in the old Ford truck.

<103> Knowledge of the nature of that seed by Moritz, the hired hand, is attributable to Mr. Schmeiser and to the corporate defendant. Mr. Schmeiser must be presumed to know the nature of the seed stored in the truck by Mr. Moritz who acted under Schmeiser's general instructions in harvesting the crop.


<104> In spring 1998 the seed from the old Ford truck was treated by HFM, then mixed with bin run seed and fertilizer and used to seed the whole of 1,030 acres of canola grown by Schmeiser in nine fields in 1998.

...

<146> I find on a balance of probabilities that the growing by the defendants in 1998 of canola on nine fields, from seed saved in 1997 which was known or ought to have been known by them to be Roundup tolerant, and the harvesting and sale of that canola crop, infringed upon the plaintiffs' exclusive rights under Canadian patent number 1, 313, 830 in particular claims 1, 2, 5, 6, 22, 23, 27, 28 and 45 of the patent.
...
(signed) W. Andrew MacKay

JUDGE

OTTAWA, Ontario

March 29, 2001

http://decisions.fct-cf.gc.ca/en/2001/2001fct256/2001fct256.html

[spotbird]

53. Monsanto simply steals their farms

if they use seeds as farmers have throughout time.

http://nelsonfarm.net/issue.htm

[MajorChode]

55. So are you trying to allege that there's no other precedent for patenting seeds?

[Recursion]

42. Yeah, but you can "infringe" by having Monsanto's crops wind-pollinate yours NT

[MajorChode]

54. No, you can't

If the field were cross pollinated, the result would be a hybrid and would not be covered under patent law.

That's why I asked a previous poster for just one example of such an instance occurring. He couldn't provide one, because patent law doesn't support it. The funny part is he accused me of ignorance in regard to farming as he flaunts his own.

Edit: changed "has" to "as"

[Recursion]

56. Examples of what you claim "never happens"

http://www.percyschmeiser.com/

http://www.nelsonfarm.net/

http://www.mindfully.org/GE/2003/Monsanto-Technology-Agreement2003.htm

http://www.centerforfoodsafety.org/pubs/CFSMOnsantovsFarmerReport1.13.05.pdf

[MajorChode]

57. I am constantly amazed at what people try to pass off as intelligent discussion

Maybe you think I wouldn't actually click on your links?

Do you actually have the least bit of a clue what cross pollination is?

Are you really just that ignorant?

Nothing you posted comes within a cab ride of providing an example.

http://www.percyschmeiser.com /

Nothing to do with cross pollination. The person propagated overseeded plants from his neighbor. Please explain how this has anything to do with cross pollination.

http://www.nelsonfarm.net /

Nothing to do with cross pollination. The person bought Monsanto seeds and allegedly reused the resultant 2nd generation offspring which would have been in direct violation of the license agreement the person signed. Please explain how this has anything to do with cross pollination.

http://www.mindfully.org/GE/2003/Monsanto-Technology-Ag...

This is the Monsanto license agreement which has to be agreed to by both parties and signed. Not one example of a lawsuit related to cross pollination is found here. Why you think a trade agreement which contains exactly zero proof of what you allege is at all relevant in an adult discussion is anyone's guess. Please explain how this has anything to do with cross pollination.

http://www.centerforfoodsafety.org/pubs/CFSMOnsantovsFa...

This doesn't contain one example of anyone getting sued for cross pollination. Why you think an obviously biased publication which contains exactly zero proof of what you allege is at all relevant in an adult discussion is anyone's guess. Please explain how this has anything to do with cross pollination.

Your ignorance overfloweth.

You can educate yourself here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allogamy

Here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_Breeders_Rights

and here:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/35/usc_sec_35_00000161----000-.html

Cheers!

[Travis_0004]

3. So they don't want their kids to continue, and they want to sell the land for a couple million?

I don't see anything to be sad about. There is no reason they can't give their farm to their kids. At least from the sounds of the artilce, the farm is profitable.

And if they manage to sell if for a few million, then their family can be secure and find a new hobby.

[Dappleganger]

4. The property taxes are probably what is killing them.

[flying rabbit]

5. I am pretty sure

that farming is not a "hobby".

[demodonkey]

10. Farming is NOT A HOBBY.

And if you ate today... thank a farmer!

(from a third-generation family farmer struggling to hang on in an area targeted by suburban sprawl -- and you don't even want to KNOW what we have been up against)

[pansypoo53219]

13. darn tooting.

i made 'german' potato salad with potatoes and an onion i got at the farmer's market. i gave up planting much in my garden as they do it better than i do. tho, i did plant potatoes. and i my land is better used growing the best cat nip.

[Bluebear]

12. 'find a new hobby' - how desrespectful can you get?

[theHandpuppet]

22. Find a new hobby?

What an insulting comment. Why do I suspect you don't grow your own food.

[Statistical]

28. A hobby? Get a fucking clue.

What hobby does your employer pay you to perform?

Within a couple generations there likely will be no family farms left. The agro corps will own massive (tens of thousands of acres) combined to gigantic "super farms" and everything you consume in your lifetime will come from a half dozen companies.

[piratefish08]

30. this farm was no fucking "hobby" for anyone involved.....

They were a large working farm, educated many students from the local university and sold their produce direct to the community....... Nobody will get rich from the sale.

I'm sad for the family and sadder that hard working farms in the US can no longer compete....

They'll be missed.

[Ignis]

45. Looks like you've burned a hole in your sock.

You should be more careful next time.

[bvar22]

46. LOL +1.

Nailed It.
First decent laugh of today.

[Ignis]

47. Sometimes, posts are just too ludicrous to be taken seriously.

But if I brought a smile to one person's face, it's a win-win situation. :toast:

[theophilus]

6. Well, some wealthy NH type should step in and help in some way. Or a wealthy Liberal

could help out. Are there any? Anyway, if any of the children want to take over and the debt could be taken care of that would be nice. Lots of history there.....

[Odin2005]

7. That's sad.

:(

[aikoaiko]

8. I bought and ate my first fiddle heads from Tuttles.

The family had a good run at it.

[Stinky The Clown]

9. That's very sad. The flip side are mean, selfish, horrible people, descendants of a founding father:

John Carroll was a signer of the Declaration of Independence.

His spawn are the most despicable mean people imaginable. They make Sam Walton's evil spawn look kind and gentle.

The story below is taking place less than 1,000 feet from where I am typing this:

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2010-07-29/news/bs-md-ho-doughoregan-approval-20100729_1_agricultural-preservation-carrolls-estate-and-mansion

Howard County Council approves deal to preserve most of Doughoregan
Controversial plan allows 325 new homes on part of historic estate
July 29, 2010|By Larry Carson, The Baltimore Sun

A plan to cluster development in one corner of historic Doughoregan Manor while preserving the rest of the once-vast Colonial estate received final, unanimous approval from the Howard County Council late Thursday.

The complex plan would provide more than $19 million over two decades in agricultural preservation money to Camilla and Philip D. Carroll, descendants of Charles Carroll of Carrolton, a signer of the Declaration of Independence. They have said they intend to use the money to restore the remainder of the 892-acre estate and keep it in the family.

"This is the preservation of a National Historic Landmark," said Joseph Rutter, a former planning director in Howard and Anne Arundel counties who worked for the Carrolls as a private consultant.

>snip<

The Ellicott City estate, unseen and unknown to most county residents, lies between Frederick Road and Route 108 but is accessible only via private roads. It once covered more than 10,000 acres, and is the only home of a signer of the Declaration of Independence still in family hands.

Please read the story. This estate is, today, occupied by three people. There is a gate house they "rent" to county cops. They live there free of charge in return for keeping everyone off the property. The deal they cut with the county will allow them to put a cluster of high-priced houses too densely packed to meet normal zoning, and have the county foot the bill to extend public utilities to service them. The county will also pay them millions over the next few years to not develop the rest of their estate.

In return for all this, these shitbirds will not even open the fucking house once a year. They have been terrible residents.

I wish a scheme like the Carrolls extorted from our government were available to the poor family in the story in the OP.

[Blue_Tires]

27. damn...that's unbelievable...

i didn't even know about the Carroll house...

[KittyWampus]

11. Those farm acres might end up like the farmland here- summer and weekend housed for wealthy.

[FailureToCommunicate]

14. We bought food from Tuttle Farm while volunteering in area for Obama campaign

Sad to hear the news.

[flvegan]

16. That's going to be one hell of a title search.

Maybe the parents are making a wise decision. Sad that they have to.

[applegrove]

17. Aw. I'm so sorry. History like that is rare.

[Uncle_Gunnysack]

18. Unfortunately, nothing is forever.

Hopefully, they will be able to sell the farm to someone who cares about the land and keeps the spirit going.

[gmoney]

20. At least the pukes can't blame it on estate taxes

[piratefish08]

25. This farm is just up the road from me - we shop there often....

Here is some more info from our local paper:

"Tuttle and her brother, who owns the farm and lives in the farmhouse with his wife and two children, took ownership in 1970. She said they almost put the farm up for sale last year as well after a cold, rainy spring ruined most of their crops.

She said the sale isn't a way for the family "to get wealthy," but rather a way to "settle our debt" and give way to younger people with fresh ideas and capital to make it "a successful farm."

The land is protected and can't be used for anything other than agriculture, something she said is good because "small family farms are disappearing from the landscape" almost entirely to make way for commercial, single-crop superproducers and housing developments."


http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100725/GJNEWS_01/707259949

[NNN0LHI]

26. Asking price: $3.35 million

http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100802/GJOPINION_01/708029997

[uncommon]

29. Land is expensive.

There is farmland down the street from me that was listed for over $2 million - it is a very large tract of land that is zoned for commercial use.

What's your point exactly?

[NNN0LHI]

31. My point was the asking price is $3.35 million

What's your point exactly?

Don

[uncommon]

33. I just don't see how the asking price is relevant.

Of course the farm has value. Are we supposed to think the owners are bad people or something because of that?

[Obamanaut]

36. Perhaps a reader was curious as to the asking price for that property.

There is speculation re the cost of celebrity weddings, the price people pay for homes, salaries of various CEOs, etc.

Now we know.

[whistler162]

48. Yes.. .but what is the considerable debt?

Which we will never know.

Sounds like the elders decided 15 to 20 years ago ti discourage the next generation.

[teamster633]

34. Our town(city) was settled in 1623.

It's probably only a local urban legend but, I often hear it said that Dover is the 7th oldest city in the country. This farm started only 9 years later. I rode by there yesterday on my bicycle. I'm glad the land is protected. It's western property line sits right next to a new subdivision as it is.

[piratefish08]

37. from wiki:

"Dover is the oldest permanent settlement in New Hampshire, and the seventh oldest in the United States. It is one of the colony's four original townships, and once included Durham, Madbury, Newington and Lee. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dover,_New_Hampshire#Settlement

[proteus_lives]

35. Very sad.

I hope gets made into a historical site.

[alcibiades_mystery]

39. Ta-ta, Tut-tle

Sorry...couldn't help it...

[geardaddy]

41. lol, George

[zenprole]

40. King Charles??? GMAFB

How about the Tuttles give the land back to the people their ancestors stole it from?
Contact the Pennacook Nation at 83 Hanover Street, Manchester, NH 03101.