Oh, Ouch!

[n2doc]

Entirely Sensible, though....

[WinkyDink]

1. Zing!

The Bush tax-cuts will be my line in the sand.

[lame54]

2. I agree...

I'm very worried about that one

[tavalon]

42. Everyone has a line in the sand

and there have been a lot of them crossed already.

[snake in the grass]

121. The refusal to investigate the war criminals under us...

...was mine.

[ThomWV]

3. .

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vickers]

5. Did they lift the restriction on calling people "cheerleaders" sailor65? n/t

[sailor65]

102. I didn't think there was one....

I just went back and looked and couldn't find a reference to that word anywhere.

Have to make a note of that one.

[Vickers]

108. "Please note that sweeping statements about entire groups of fellow progressives are not..."

"...categorically forbidden (except in the case of race, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, religion, lack of religion, disability, physical characteristics, or region of residence, as mentioned above). However, they are often inflammatory and counterproductive and the moderators have broad discretion to remove such posts in the interests of keeping the peace on the message board."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

P.S. Just because a specific word is not *specifically* verboten doesn't mean that just any old fuckknob can use it here. Hope this helps!

[sailor65]

130. In other words, the restriction you quoted

was nonexistent and my post was deleted on general principles for the sake of harmony. I can live with that.

P.S. Right Back at Ya...

[Vickers]

132. Your failure to interpret the rules properly is why your post was deleted.

Not sure why you're getting mad about that, but hey.

[tosh]

6. LOL!! I see what you mean...

another rec.

(What? Still in the negative??)

[City Lights]

7. LOL! Same here.

[dionysus]

8. cheerleaders, how clever.

[SunsetDreams]

9. Which ones would that be?

The ones who think he is doing a great job with what he has to work with?

OR

The ones who flock to all the negative and ignore anything good?

[zipplewrath]

12. The third group

The ones having a hard time differentiating between his policies on core issues like Afghanistan, Iraq, torture, detention, the Patriot Act, NAFTA, warrantless wiretapping, etc. and the last 2 - 4 years of Bush.

[treestar]

13. Anyone having a hard time differentiating on these things

Is not looking very deeply and just taking off on some shallow interpretation.

The cartoon is BS, because it just isn't so. Hell it may not even be so about BP.

Some people just hate everyone who has attained any position of success.

[zipplewrath]

15. Yeah that's it

Obama's critics don't have any real valid points at all, they're just a bunch of shallow folks.

Stick with that though, it will take you far I'm sure.

[treestar]

18. The one in that cartoon is

That cartoon is stupid.

[Bluenorthwest]

25. Now that is some cutting criticism!

Is the cartoon also a doody head?

[dionysus]

28. you want him to write a thesis over a lame-ass cartoon?

:rofl:

[Donnachaidh]

36. nah -- the cartoonist is *just jelous!!!!!!!* n/t

[dionysus]

39. you guys are getting infantile with this shit, really.

:rofl:

[treestar]

51. Well yeah, I mean there is constructive criticism

And then there is just being stupid.

You assume all criticism is constructive just because it is criticism. I can tell the difference.

[Hekate]

90. Arte Johnson's "Laugh-In" character comes to mind: "Verrry interesting....

... But also stupid."

For some reason he's been on my mind lately, when reading DU.

Hekate

[tavalon]

43. No, it's actually painfully insightful

The older caption would have been, "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss." My hopes and aspirations have sunk so low that I'm just grateful his voice doesn't make me cringe when I hear it and he doesn't look stupid like the last one.

[treestar]

52. Mere sloganeering

Claiming they are the same is stupid to the point of insanity. Constructive criticism of the Obama administration does not include absurd and outlandish claims that it's no different from the bush Administration.

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dionysus]

68. FFS.

:rofl:

[jgraz]

72. Nailed it.

:thumbsup:

[bobburgster]

125. Agree....

well stated.

[bobburgster]

126. Agree....

well stated.

[geek tragedy]

It applies to the "Obama=Bush" crowd

who have less brains than the Teabaggers.

[jgraz]

74. I see we're going for two deleted subthreads in the same thread

Seriously, it's a fucking cartoon. Unclench.

[geek tragedy]

78. The same could be said of Der Sturmer. nt

[jgraz]

79. Der Sturmer? Seriously? You have gone off the deep end.

All over a CARTOON, FFS. Time for some life re-evaluation, GT. Just sayin...

[geek tragedy]

81. Eh, this site has gone off the deep end, to the point where

they think we're no better off than if we had Bush as President.

[jgraz]

82. How terrible it must be for you to be faced with opinions other than your own

:nopity:

[geek tragedy]

93. Well, the Teabaggers have a different opinion than I do too.

I don't have to respect them any more than I have to respect the Obama=Bush Firebagging nutters here.

[Foo Fighter]

110. Well, at least when Bush was pResident, we had the hope that once he was

gone, things would change.

We have a Dem President and Dem majorities in the House and Senate and yet the Bush policies continue.

Hope has been replaced by anger and disgust.

[bobburgster]

124. There is a difference between....

Obama's critics and Obama haters

[Hawkowl]

34. Yes Beyond Petreoleum!

You are unbelievable. It takes some brass balls to defend the oil executives.

[jgraz]

38. Oh, come on. BP is playing chess with the oil spill

It's only been four months!!! No one could possibly stop an oil spill in four months!!

You expect them to keep ALL their wells free of spills? Next you'll be wanting a pony.

YOU'VE ALWAYS HATED BP!! You're probably one of those secret Exxon supporters!!

Oh, I suppose you'd rather have Sarah Palin cleaning up the spill!

[GOTV]

135. +1 lol

[treestar]

53. Oil executives are evil just because they are oil executives

And to be adjudged criminals just because they are such.

Meanwhile, keep using oil in your daily activities.

[jgraz]

80. Ah, so the fact that I have a car that burns gas means BP is completely blameless

Your logic does not resemble our earth logic.

[Denzil_DC]

16. There is at least another group

Those who think that drawing cartoons is pretty damn easy compared to juggling the Congress Obama has, and that heehawing like jackasses every time a supposed "zinger" like this is posted does nothing to further the aims of the poster or those who applaud him or her, let alone throwing around childish terms like "cheerleaders."

[treestar]

19. Yep.

It's so easy to judge from where that cartoonist sits.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[Denzil_DC]

21. Thanks very much for the welcome

I've been following DU since late in the primaries. I don't post much because I'm reluctant to be drawn into endless flamewars, which don't do anything to further progressive causes - in fact they're more likely to make people click elsewhere in disgust.

This sort of thread is just pathetic flamebait guaranteed to be pointlessly divisive, as ever. Hassling congresscritters or effective lobbying outside DU would be a far better use of time and energy and resources, IMO.

[zipplewrath]

22. Actually very similar to the last 8 years

There are folks that are very disappointed in what is going on right now, and they feel as disconnected from the larger process as they did with Bush. As such it makes them feel less disconnected and isolated when they can find like minds such as the cartoon. It is what they enjoy about Colbert, Stewart, Maddow, and Keith. It is pretty much what started this whole place. It is only amplified for them by the fact that they now feel more disconnected around here too.

[Denzil_DC]

24. If you feel disconnected

How about those who feel alienated by this constant petty - and I'll say it again, childish - carping?

The issues may not be petty, but the behavior is. I find it very hard to reconcile my sympathy with the aims of those who behave like that with my boredom and disgust at the conduct. Sure, I don't have to click in and read it, but it's threads like this that dissuade me - and I'd imagine others like me - from becoming more involved.

Or is that the aim?

[zipplewrath]

26. How did it make you feel under Bush?

The basic complaints sound very familiar in tone, style, and content. Did it dissuade you from reading back then? Or is it that you find being on the other side of criticism difficult. "Dish it out but can't take it" kind of attitude? This site was practically created to provide a forum for exactly what you are now complaining about. It is roughly what the "underground" moniker was all about.

[Denzil_DC]

27. You assume too much

You choose to oversimplify this into "sides," and again, I find that childish behavior in this context.

To address your question, it's ridiculous. With Bush and Cheney in power, the US and the entire world was at the mercy of the neocons, who claimed to create their own reality. If you can't see how silly and shortsighted your comparison is, there's nothing I'll be able to say to persuade you, not least because I can't be bothered because you seem very entrenched in this behavior.

I've been active in politics off and on since the Reagan years, and was eventually part of a group that pioneered using online communication for international peace activism. If we'd imagined then that all the fantastic facilities available in the future for mobilization and the dissemination of information would have come down to threads like this, we'd have despaired and given up.

As for what this site is "about," you have your views. Like I said, I find this conduct alienating and pointless, and I'm probably not alone in that. I don't expect that to concern you.

[dionysus]

29. well stated. you'll notice there are people here whose sole purpose is to tear down the admin and

try their hardest to make its supporters miserable.

:thumbsup:

[Denzil_DC]

32. Thanks. I'm damned if I'll let them do that to me

though it will affect how much energy I devote to DU beyond reading. It's not the only avenue online.

Being obnoxious and constantly focusing on projections of failure have never been effective campaigning tools in the real world.

[zipplewrath]

70. Wow

And yet you hang around and comment.

You realize that the alternative entity is what started this whole subthread. The guy invoked the cheerleader title and off we all went. There are people decidated to constant praise, and those dedicated to presenting the opposing point of view. Imagine that, in a discussion forum.

[dionysus]

73. this "constant praise" shit only exists in people's imagination.

[spoony]

85. It's shit all right, but it's all too real.

Unless I'm sharing the same mirage as hundreds of other readers. Maybe you don't see it as praise? Maybe as "defense"?

[hulka38]

115. Craft it any way you'd like

but it's all about the policies and so far they've sucked. It's nothing personal against the man.

[zipplewrath]

33. Only pointless now?

That is the question you keep avoiding. It seems you only find it pointless when you don't agree with the larger point. All of the behavior and methodologies of making a point haven't changed, merely the targets.

Look, if you want a forum that uses strict academic methods of logic, and contains verifiable references in making points, have at it. You won't find alot of participation. If you only want criticism of the GOP around here, even Skinner won't support that. If criticism of Obama is going to be held to a hire standard of authorship than members of the GOP, I think you've got a hypocrisy problem.

[Denzil_DC]

37. I think you need to have this conversation, such as it is,

with yourself. I don't give a damn about what you were used to in the Bush years. You have no idea what I agree with and don't agree with beyond what I've stated on this thread, so keep your assumptions to yourself. And thanks for proving my point about your entrenchedness so effectively.

I have avoided no question, but in any case, you're not the fucking quizmaster or gatekeeper round here. And you can stick your "hypocrisy" where the sun don't shine. I'll use the word "childish" again, because it fits.

Calling this cartoon criticism is like calling Sarah Palin a knowledgeable politician.

[tavalon]

45. I disagree with you

That said, you are thoughtful and insightful and I hope you not only stay here but continue to contribute. You are a valuable member of this place.

[Denzil_DC]

46. Thank you, tavalon

I appreciate that.

It is possible to disagree - especially about tactics - and still be civil. But I doubt I'll be a regular poster in the 1000s precisely because exchanges like this suck up energy and time, and there are so many ways to waste both of those.

If my tone's immoderate above, then I resent a total stranger calling me a "hypocrite" on no evidence whatsoever.

It's also because I find it hard to reconcile what some of you seem to feel very vehemently about as the wrongs of the world and this administration with the baiting tactics so commonly found on this board. Threads like this may rally some, but they win few new friends, and those they do win are likely to stick around just for the "laughs" and negativity.

If people feel that strongly about issues, it's disappointing to see the energy channeled in what seems such an unproductive direction.

And since Zipplewrath appears to be so interested, when we were campaigning in opposition to Reagan, Bush I, quite a few of Clinton's policies, and Bush II, it was IRL, not chortling over some lame cartoon or other online.

[zipplewrath]

57. A simple question that scares the hell out of you

The simple question is your objection based upon this cartoons style, or target? Because in style, it is very similar to cartoons celebrated regularly around here about Bush and the GOP. I'm not sure why that simple question generates such an hysterical response.

[Denzil_DC]

61. Like I said before

you're not the fucking quizmaster or gatekeeper round here, but I'll humor you a minute, then I'm done.

The cartoon's pretty irrelevant.

Try looking around the comments on this thread with the eyes of an outsider - which to a large extent I am.

It might be illuminating.

[zipplewrath]

71. What don't you think I understand

It would appear I understand far more about all sides on this one than you. The only thing I can't understand is a person coming to a discussion forum that only wants to preach.

[Warren Stupidity]

129. the comments?

there seem to be two types: 'oh ouch' and 'that cartoon stinks and you people are very bad'. Here is a clue: we are not celebrating the fact that this cartoon hits home, we are mourning that fact.

[dionysus]

69. i really doubt the guy is scared.

:eyes:

[spoony]

75. When one has no good answer, flailing must do in its place

And flailing they are!

[Raineyb]

49. And your name calling and complaining about carping doesn't really

do anything to ameliorate it. So for all your talk about discussing without alienating you're not exactly in a position to call the kettle black are you Mr. Pot?

[Denzil_DC]

54. Oh, I don't know.

I got a "welcome" and a mutually respectful agreement to differ from a couple of posters, both of which I value, so I'd say I'm ahead on the game.

And your achievement is ...?

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SunsetDreams]

63. Denzil,

Welcome to DU :hi:

[Denzil_DC]

64. Thank you, SunsetDreams

I'm done now, but I'll be around, and I'll chime in when I feel I've got something to say or some info to contribute.

Keep on keeping on.

[SunsetDreams]

67. You are welcome,

I do hope you stick around :hug:

[liquid diamond]

111. I hope to see more of your brilliant posts. We need more like you

around. Welcome aboard.

[spoony]

76. Why don't you enable your profile?

That way we can mutually respect each other and shit.

[Denzil_DC]

77. Because, respectfully, there's nothing in it. n/t

[Amaril]

92. No.............

Like I said, I find this conduct alienating and pointless, and I'm probably not alone in that.

.......you're not alone.

[flyarm]

137. so now doing what our constitution demands of us is CARPING?

Have you ever read the constitution? Do you understand what it means? We the people are the Government , we elect people to represent us, when they are not doing so it is our OBLIGATION to stand up to them to demand they represent us!

Our constitution leaves the responsibility of what is done in our name to do something about it to us..to we the people.

We are responsible for our Republic Democracy..not the politicians..but us.

When they are hurting our nation it is up to US to speak out and to do whatever nessesary to yell loud and clear of what they are doing!! US..

Perhaps you are the one Carping..seems to me you just don't care for our constitution, nor do you respect your responsibility, seems you only respect politicians..and find the constitution, and your duty to preserve it .. a burden.

I am glad I am me and not you!

I hold every elected Politican accountable irregardless of party..I believe in Country first..not party.


"To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men."

- Abraham Lincoln


"We the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts--not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
-- Abraham Lincoln

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government."
--Thomas Paine


"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government -- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests."
- Patrick Henry


"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear."
-- George Orwell, 1945



"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." Thomas Jefferson (1801–1809)


Theodore Roosevelt (1901–1909)
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."



I can just imagine if you lived in these brillant men's times..you would have considered them CARPERS!

[geek tragedy]

58. Their feelings are not a substitute for reality.

They should go buy a bottle of whiskey or Prozac.

[jgraz]

83. The worst part is when they compare opinions they don't like to Nazi propaganda

Oh wait, that was you.

[geek tragedy]

94. Obama=Bush on DU isn't that different than the Teabaggers

equating Obama to Stalin or Hitler.

[Catherina]

97. Physician heal thyself n/t

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8863484&mesg_id=8864752

[Name removed]

48. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Denzil_DC]

65. Thank you again, treestar

I'm outta here, but I'll be reading. ;)

[glitch]

105. Any similarity between a childish term like "cheerleader" and a childish term like "jackass"? nt

[Raineyb]

113. Didn't you hear? It's only childish when people who aren't him use the term. n/t

[bobburgster]

127. Thanks Denzil!

You are spot on with your post!

[glitch]

103. This group is invisible to B/W thinkers. They can only see either/or, there is no else. nt

[Bluesbreaker]

118. You forgot a few things . . .

Like his attack on social security (the President's Cat Food Commission), his and Arne's attempts to undermine public schools and teachers by taking a bad law, the No Child Left Behind Act, and making it worse, expansion of government spying on Americans (watch what you say on FaceBook), his caving in to Wall Street and giving us a financial reform package that doesn't end too big to fail, the shadow banking system and unregulated bets on company failures (CDOs), which we have to pay for when big Wall Street firms lose them (socialization of losses by Wall Street). And so forth


He started with the biggest majorities (a lot bigger than Bush had) but look how much of his agenda he's accomplished compared to Bush!

[bobburgster]

133. I beg to differ....

"I beg to differ with you. Here are just a few that I could remember or find. Obama has accomplished a huge amount, more than in any other first term since Lyndon Johnson. He also has had to deal with the oil spill nightmare in which he got BP to agree to a $20 billion escrow.


* $787 billion-$288 billion -- came in the form of tax cuts for the middle class and lower, making it one of the largest tax cuts in history, with sizable credits for energy conservation and renewable-energy production as well as home-buying and college tuition.

* Expanded the State Children's Health Insurance Program

* A law to allow the FDA to regulate tobacco

* Enacted legislation to make it easier for workers to sue employers for age or sex discrimination

* The largest land conservation law in nearly two decades

* A credit card holders' bill of rights

* Health Care Reform- He is the only president that managed to get it past. Is it great, no. It is incremental.

* Financial Reform- It is incremental.

There are numerous things I would like to see strengthened or focused on too....jobs being number one, but to say he is attacking you, and comparing him to Bush is way over the top."

[snake in the grass]

122. Sometimes good things don't outweigh the bad.

If you a hack a person to bits then donate $10 to the UNICEF...get my drift?

[bobburgster]

123. Two points!

:)

[SunsetDreams]

10. dupe

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SidDithers]

44. Hehehe. ..

:thumbsup:

Sid

[janx]

47. Oh yes. n/t

[Stinky The Clown]

11. .

+

[QC]

14. Bors never really loved him!

:cry:

[Lost4words]

20. K & R!

[TheKentuckian]

23. Bump

[Catherina]

30. Ouch. Rec'd n/t

[Schema Thing]

31. What a stupid cartoon.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jgraz]

35. Oh dayum

A lotta truth packed into those four panels.

[MellowDem]

40. If the cartoon wants to be accurate...

the real sad thing is that people's rage haven't been quelled, and their solution is to vote in Republicans this coming mid-term, which will happen. They will be voting for the policies that they hate, but they don't understand policy to begin with so it won't matter.

[tavalon]

41. Too close to the truth to be funny

I actually cringed.

[Raineyb]

50. Indeed. It is more sad than funny. But I understand get the gallows humor of it all. n/t

[asdjrocky]

55. How does the song go?

Meet the new boss...

[slay]

88. or The Song Remains the Same

ok so only the title really fits with this but killer Led Zeppelin song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcYZlRWWxO0

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slay]

86. ...

:wow: Spot on strip. Absolutely spot on I'm sad to say.

[Greyhound]

87. They will play the same game as long as it keeps on working. K&R.

[MissDeeds]

89. The truth hurts

K&R, before this thread gets locked.

:kick:

[flamingdem]

91. Just another DU POST that gives a NICE WET KISS to the GOP! smack! nt

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SunsetDreams]

98. agreed

[JuniperLea]

99. Sad, isn't it?

:cry:

[Lorien]

107. How? Isn't pushing Republican policies a Nice Wet Kiss to the GOP?

If you want to stick it to the GOP then don't coddle them.

[Greyhound]

100. We we've got nearly enough deleted replies to have the thread locked,

Slightly premature Congratulations!

(Do you honestly think this message discipline crap makes DU better?):grr:

[jgraz]

101. Depends on your definition of "better"

For some DUers, I'm sure it's much, much "better".

[bobburgster]

134. Whew!

read that as "Slightly premature Ejaculation" at first :o


i believe I'm losing it
:crazy:

[mdmc]

104. I don't see what everyone hates about BP

Its not like Shell or Mobil would have done any better...

love the toon..

k/r

[Liberal_in_LA]

106. double ouch!

[jannyk]

109. Huge K&R!!

[Mira]

112. I won't read a single damn comment before I confess

this was a stab in the gut.

[hulka38]

114. Hurry, somebody break out THE LIST!!!

[Naturyl]

116. Hooooooooo, well done.

+1000 for this cartoonist.

[earcandle]

117. I prefer to call a spade a spade. And if the truth fits, you

wear it, because eventually you will be forgiven because that
is the christian way, isn't it? 

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

120. A spade a spade? Nice.

[democrank]

119. K & R

[BrklynLiberal]

128. eww. That is going to leave a mark.

[paparush]

131. DAYUM!

Feel that sting? That's just your pride f_cking with you.

[flvegan]

136. Kicking!

The trainwreck rolls on!