Stocks start off August with big gains; Dow up 200

[Scurrilous]

Stocks rise sharply following gains overseas and better-than-expected report on manufacturing

<snip>

"The stock market began August with a huge rally after economic and earnings reports from around the world revived investors' faith in the global recovery.

The Dow Jones industrial average jumped nearly 200 points in midday trading. Major stock indexes all rose almost 2 percent.

The market rallied at the opening bell on upbeat economic news from China and earnings reports from European banks. Then, shortly after trading began, investors got a surprisingly good report on U.S. manufacturing. The Institute for Supply Management said its manufacturing index slipped to 55.5 in July from 56.2 a month earlier.

The results showed a modest slowdown in growth, but traders were pleased because the index came in higher than the 54.1 forecast of economists polled by Thomson Reuters. And any reading above 50 indicates expansion.

The market was encouraged by several key components of the index. Production and new orders both improved, as did companies' willingness to hire new employees."

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Stocks-start-off-August-with-apf-2489423678.html?x=0

[LisaM]

1. I was out shopping yesterday

and was surprised to see that all the stores were very crowded.

[Dappleganger]

5. Oh wow.

We went out yesterday and it rained like cats and dogs. That must mean the drought is finally finished in India.

[dmallind]

7. Funny how when the data is good, anecdotes matter, when anecdotes are good.......NT

[LisaM]

20. I didn't mean it was great economic news

I just noticed that there were a lot more shoppers than usual. It was a bit surprising.

But, thanks for the snarky response, much appreciated.

[GreenTea]

2. The rich getting richer sitting on their money, investing it overseas,

and greedily buying new & bigger private jets, yachts, and mansions around the world - Fuck the American workers and small businesses - We don't want to help Obama & the Dems and the economy out - We are rich and we are republicans, we don't give a fuck about patriotism we just sell it to the uniformed and the ignorant sheep!

[dmallind]

3. Money invested overseas would not bump the DJIA

While some foreign companies are listed on US exchanges, even then the money is invested in the US, but the DJIA tracks only 30 companies, all of which are US-based.

So a gain for that index is money invested in the stocks of US companies on a US exchange.

[GreenTea]

9. My point is the rich and their corporations are

doing well in our country as the Dow shows yet they are purposely NOT investing in our country preferring to sit on their money or putting it in off-shore accounts, or investing their money overseas slave labor markets...which does this country no good...or spending their billions of dollars in Bush's tax cuts on their own private luxury indulgences aboard, Mansions, yachts, as well private jets....While raising the deficit in our country in the process....

The greedy republicans don't give a fuck as long as they can blame someone else for their insatiable greed & selfishness. I just wish them a painful death as soon as possible the insensitive avaricious creatures!

Didn't I make myself clear that these fucks with their investments abroad do NOT help this country and the rich couldn't care less? perhaps you read it wrong.

[TheWatcher]

11. Hey, as long as the Bubble keeps inflating, he could care less what you think.

Get back to him when it bursts.

Sanity tends to have a few moments of sunshine during times like that.

[cbdo2007]

4. Cool we should be up over 3,000 by the end of the month then!!!

[dmallind]

6. Already are up close to that since Bush

and the 50% or so of Americans with equity holdings are quite pleased about that.

[cbdo2007]

8. I know that....My proshares ultra S&P 500 (SSO) is up like a rocket today!

[TheWatcher]

10. The Market has essentially gone Nowhere for 10 years.

Now of course if you were a nimble Trader who knew how to to sell the tops, buy the dips, and scalp profits long and short during the massive Bubbles, you probably did pretty well the past 10 years, and yes you should be pleased.

The Market as a Whole has gone nowhere for 10 years. (The Dow was 10,687.53 on this date 10 years ago, August 2, 2000)

But I know, everything is fine, Bubble Economics produces endless prosperity, etc. etc. etc.

The endless Cheerleading for the Banksters and Wall Street in this country fascinates me.

And the more and more out of control they get, the more roaring approval they seem to acquire.

Until their Bubbles burst.

Then everyone gets a dose of reality and gets pissed off for a bit.

But soon enough, The Bubble starts reflating and the Grazing gets back into high gear.

Never let it be said the people of this country deserve everything they get, because we let Criminals run the show.

And then we Reward them and LOVE them for it.

It will be interesting to see if the same cheerleading for the obvious and blatant manipulation of the Markets is so loud when this current bubble, based on absolutely nothing fundamental or tangible, collapses yet again.

No doubt, more screaming and wailing to "Save Us" will commence, and then The Bnaksters, a Complicit, Corrupt Congress, and a Criminal Fed and Treasury will bail themselves out, screw the rest of us, and we'll scream "Thank God It PASSED!!!!!!111111111111111" again.

:crazy:

And of course this post will be mocked and attacked by the "I don't care how they did it, as long as they keep lining my pockets, screw everyone else" crowd, but that is no surprise.

They know it's wrong, They know it's unsustainable, and They know this is going to end the same way as 2003 and 2008.

They just don't care.

As long as they benefit.

What a pathetic joke of a country we have become.

[girl gone mad]

16. Yes, indeed.

The system is so rigged, they don't even bother to try and hide the scams any more.

HFT sends stocks up with billions of fake bids and imaginary trades. The gains are considered real and the valuations called true.

Momentum dries up and those same algos cease fake bidding, causing a "flash crash" as the imaginary trades disappear. The losses are considered an accident and the new valuations declared invalid.

The average Joe who plays in this casino is paying twice to get fleeced.

[TheWatcher]

22. The scary thing GGM, is just imagine what would happen to the Market without all those Alpha Robo

Algo Boxes, The Fed, and The Huge Trading Desks like Goldman Sachs, to manipulate it?

Imagine where the Dow would REALLY be right now if allowed to trade naturally with REAL Valuations, instead of all this imaginary, artificial nonsense?

THAT should scare the Hell out of people, and it is the one of the many Reasons why The Dow has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Real Economy.

When Greenspan was last on Meet The Press, he practically ADMITTED that The Stock Market was being manipulated and propped up. It has essentially BECOME The Economy, if by nothing more than it is perceived by the majority of the Public to be so.

What is even more disgusting is how many on DU would actually CHEER Greenspan's comments, and think that this is a GOOD Thing.

No one has learned ANYTHING from 2003 or 2008.

Not one damned thing.

[Statistical]

36. S&P 500 is trading at relatively low multiple.

http://www.multpl.com/

Currently 20.4x average of last 10 years earnings. Well within the range of a normal market. Certainly support by current growth rates.

GDP is growing by about 3%. Corporate revenue is growing by about 6%-12%. Profits are growing 15%+ year over year.

Of course that is just the average within the S&P 500 there are lots of good values for value investor.

[daleo]

19. Yes, 10 years of sideways

It seems like capitalism isn't even working for capitalists any longer - not unless you are in on the scams.

[TheWatcher]

31. If you're in on the HFT Back Room Algo Parties, you've made a killling.

If you're an average American who doesn't have a ticket to the backroom, only a subsciption to Cable, where the Smiling Carnival Barkers of CNBC tell you what reality is, not so much.

[cbdo2007]

26. Yet you still would have made a ton of money if you had started investing 10 years ago

and had a regular weekly/monthly buy into a down index fund.

By now you would be nicely averaged down and better off than having it sit in a bank somewhere.

[TheWatcher]

29. "Come With Me, And You'll Be, In A World Of Pure Imagination....."

"The Precious" wasn't the only place or way to make Money the past 10 years.

I did just fine without it thank you. :)

It's a Manipulated, Artificial, Algo-Driven Casino that has nothing to do with Economic Reality.

I'm Tickled Pink that Bubble Economics worked so well for you, but it has done so at the expense of the rest of us.

You would think that people would learn from 03 or 08.

Sadly, they haven't learned a thing.

They only cheer when the Shell Game gets going full blast again, never remembering that it is only a temporary effect, and that sooner or later, it will come crashing down like the last Bubble did.

Be sure you sell the Top this time.

Then, if and when they do this again, you'll be a prime beneficiary.

On Edit: And let's not even look at what's happened to the DOLLAR the past 10 years. The currency has lost almost half it's value, but that doesn't matter. "Look at the Electronic Scoreboard Light Up Like A Pinball Machine!" We'res Richz!"

Yes "The Precious" was up 200 Points today, but How did the Dollar do?

http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_DX

No one really likes to talk about that.

[Statistical]

35. "The currency has lost almost half it's value"

Really? What major currency appreciated 100% against the dollar in last decade?

Euro Dollar cross has declined about 30% compared to a decade ago. USD/JPY has declined much less.

[daleo]

32. When I am lucky, I have had a balanced fund

That's one that hasn't gained or lost. Usually, it has turned into this new-fangled thing called a negative growth fund. I plan to retire when I am 100, if the stock market continues as it has.

[Statistical]

34. You ignored a decade worth of reinvested dividends. n/t

[upi402]

12. So can we have jobs now?

18+% real unemployment as the Dow goes up? I'm no expert but I screamed about the price of houses vs. the wages of the buyers for years. This seems just as crazy to me.

[TheWatcher]

14. No, but you can have plenty of Happy Talk and Propaganda telling you everything is fine to manage

your perception and make you feel better.

Why isn't this good enough for you? Why can't you just numb out and get on the Bandwagon, watch your Real Housewives Reality Shows, go shopping, shut up, and just learn to be a good little serf?

What do you want, a Stable Of Ponies?

:sarcasm:

[upi402]

15. Give me rainbow sparkle ponies, or give me death!

:fistbump:

[asdjrocky]

13. It's more job jobless recovery.

The rich get richer while we starve.

[JoePhilly]

17. When the DOW fell to 9700 a few weeks back ... some on DU screamed ...

DOUBLE DIP!!!!!

Now that it is back at 10,500+ ... they scream again .... this time to DENOUNCE it.

Amazing to watch the knee jerk.

[girl gone mad]

21. The stock market has little to do with the real economy.

If anything, stocks go up on news of more suffering and hardship for American workers.

The calls of a double dip recession do not reflect moves in the stock market in either direction. Economists rely on an entirely different set of data to make that determination.

[JoePhilly]

24. I did not attemopt to explain why some (actually few) economists ...

predict a double dip.

My point was that ... on DU in recent months, when the DOW does down, there are screams of Double Dip, from some DU members.

Past that .... your description of "why stocks go up" is ridiculous and wildly simplistic.

And ... RIGHT WING economists do use market drops to predict the double dip. And they have done so repeatedly. Every time the DOW drops close to 10k.

In reality ... if you track the DOW's running average from 2000 to now ... what do you see ...???

The AVERAGE is about 10,500.

From 2000-2006 it runs from 10,500 t0 maybe 12k. Spikes to 14k for 10 minutes, then falls even faster.

It hits 6500 in March 2009, and returns to 11k in less than one year ...

Since then, it tests the LOW end of that average (10500) multiple times. We've dropped to ~9500 about 3 times since hiting the 11k mark. Each time ... we bounce back to about 10,500 within a few weeks.

Where are we today ... ~10,500. Oh the horror.

[TheWatcher]

30. So basically we've gone nowhere for 10 years, and you think that's a measure of success?

"It hits 6500 in March 2009, and returns to 11k in less than one year ..."

Thanks to an Artifically Manipulated Bubble aided by HFT, Algo-Driven Black Boxes, and A Fed that wouldn't know fiscal responsibility if it bit them in the ass. There is nothing tangible or fundamental that any of this is based on.

You ACTUALLY think that is NORMAL, and just "The Free Market" playing out naturally?

What an enchanted world....

No one ever seems to get the reasons WHY we crashed to 6500 in the first place, or to 7100 in 2003. They only remember that everything just "magically" came back and that's all that Matters. Nothing has been learned. NOTHING.

They were BUBBLES. They were not sustainable and each subsequent collapse of them ended up with worse consequences than the previous one.

And that is EXACTLY what will occur with this one as well. It may be this year, it may be three years from now, but this will repeat just like 03 and 08 did.

But, maybe it's better to live in the CNBC reality than the actual one.

Yes, we're in Great Shape, and the biggest Financial Crisis ever was solved in six months. :rofl:

Cue the Willy Wonka Music....

[JoePhilly]

33. Where in my post did I claim we were in "great shape" ... ??

Oh right ... I did not ... where did I claim that this is ... "The Free Market" playing out naturally?" Oh right ... I did not.

The reason the DOW dropped to 6500 in 2009 ... and to 7100 in 2003 was PANIC. Those numbers were just as irrational as was 14k at the height of the bubble.

Now ... try to follow me ... the DOW stayed between 10,500 and 12k from 2000-2006. No bubble. It just meandered. Then it spiked ... it left that range ... passing through 13k ... and that was the time to sell, take some gains off the table. Anytime your investments jump like that, take gains off the table, because, a run like that reflects people jumping in for no reason other than because they see things going up. They want to get in on the "good thing". That's actually the time to get out.

The move from around 11,500 up to 14k was a bubble. And if you were smart, and had money invested, you MOVED much of it to safer investments when it hit 13k. You took OBVIOUS gains off the table.

Then, as the DOW fell down into that running average (10,500 11,500), and then quickly passed through it on the low side to ... 9k, 8k ... opportunities to BUY appeared. If you were smart and had GAINS that you protected when the bubble started, you now started to buy back in when the DOW hit about 9k. If you were extra lucky, you bought over time starting then, because the drop to 6500 was providing more and more opportunities. When everyone is selling, that's when you buy.

Then, when the DOW returned to 11k, very quickly, ... you TOOK GAINS again ... you PROTECTED the gains you made now that the market was back in that running average.

So look ... Willy ... bury your retirement money in a can in the back yard if you want. Just don't jump up and down screaming about a double dip the next time the DOW tests 9700.

[Scurrilous]

23. Yep.

:thumbsup:

[DCBob]

18. Even though the market is not a good indicator of economic health, it is still an indicator.

plus it also makes many Americans feel more positive about the future who have stocks, 401ks, retirement plans that are affected by the ups and downs of the market. In fact, if the market continues to rise, this will help Democrats in November.

[cbdo2007]

25. The market *can* be a good indicator of economic health...but it's true that the day to day

ups and downs are not typically relevant.

[Dappleganger]

27. Unless you're a democrat without a job.

You'll be stuck with a bucket of hope for halloween.

[DCBob]

28. For sure, the job situation will have a major impact on the election..

I hope it improves significantly by then.