Why so many defeatist posts on DU?

[rbrnmw]

They just play right into the teapublicans propaganda that Obama and the Democrats are evil nazi's PLEASE don't fuel their smoldering fire

[trumad]

1. Hey--- it wouldn't be DU without some self loathing members..

[SidDithers]

7. +1...nt

Sid

[blondeatlast]

49. ;) nt

[dionysus]

107. the emo crew....

[HipChick]

2. Troll strategy..divide and conquer..

[Skidmore]

3. K&R

Thank you. And it's not all coming from the right.

[rbrnmw]

5. which is sad but true I liken it to amputating your leg because your little toe hurts

[Stinky The Clown]

17. Troll Strategy .. Blow Sunshine and shout down oppositional truth.

[SunsetDreams]

18. The only opposition I have is Republicans, and they aren't truth

[27inCali]

83. no one is blowing sunshine

we are all seeing the shit.

some people want to keep fighting to change it no matter how hard it is.

some people want to throw up their hands after a few disappointments.

everyone wants the shit to change. But the ones who will actually change it are NOT the defeatist types who think we can make things better by bringing the Republicans to power.

[Stinky The Clown]

101. Bullshit

Please point to someone rooting for repubicans? Seriously. POINT to someone who is working to bring them back?

Let me tell you what brings them back. BAD Democratic policy. The health care bait and switch being but one big case in point. Had we given the country *socalized* medicine, only the right wing nut case caterwaulers would be against it. Real people who would see the real benefit INSTANTLY would be happy to support Democrats.

[lib2DaBone]

104. Ding-Ding..Give Stinky a Ceegar. People are not Defeatest......

They are tired of spineless CONservadems rolling over and giving the Repukes everything they want.

People are tired of the mindless drivel, nonsense and corrupt maneuvering that passes for legislative activity in Washington, D.C.

[27inCali]

110. attacking Dems in an election year

IS working for to put Repigs back in power -don't you get that? NO 3rd party is gonna fall out our ass and defeat the Repigs, if the Dems disappoint we need to work our ass off in the primaries and put the scare of God in them, even if we don't knock off incumbents, we give them a run for their money, they'll think twice before voting against us again. We can get more Progressive Dems into the Senate that way-which is where we need them the most, but not by bailing on the whole Dem party over the shenanigans of a handful of asshole Senators.

[txlibdem]

4. Like that 'teapublican' label

Disagree that anything we or Obama is or has done has caused or fueled the psycho right's hate. Their temper tantrums started before Obama was even sworn in.

[Liberation Angel]

37. Teapublicans are the new Brownshirts

just sayin'

[opihimoimoi]

6. Massive GOP strategy...dilute with NEGATIVE shit to distract/ denigrate/ divide

Its been going on for 2 years and intensifying in recent months....

esp in the GOP MEDIA

[JoePhilly]

12. YUP ...

And the media loves to do this ...

They take the 40% of Americans who are on the right who HATE Obama and claim he's going too far ... and then they add in the 10% from the left (a shifting group depending on the specific issue) who thinks Obama is not doing enough (on that issue), and then lump them together, and claim that 50% of Americans are AGAINST OBAMA FOR GOING TOO FAR.

Meanwhile, about 40% of Americans who are Dems or lean Dem, support Obama on the same issue, even if he's not going as far as they might like on that issue because they recognize the absolute hatred he's up against.

That leaves 10% who don't have any idea what is going on. Most of them will follow the media's lead. So let's say they break 60% against, 40% for, Obama.

You end up with 56% AGAINST Obama, 44% FOR Obama ... and the media calls the result this way ... a majority of Americans are AGAINST OBama because he is going TOO FAR.

The cowardly Dems in Congress hear that, and compromise further.

[opihimoimoi]

36. the Dems cowardly...thats "Pub Projection" Meme

[JoePhilly]

109. No .. its a reference to the Blue Dogs ...

They roll over and play dead based on the model I describe ...

You flip the "approval" numbers ... and they fall in line.

[rbrnmw]

55. I am seeing that they did it when Bill Clinton was POTUS

and they won the midterms

[opihimoimoi]

76. You are correct.....but its really intensifying in recent months esp w Beck

[sendero]

8. Some of us are more interested....

.. in reality than in some fairy-tale version where you feel good about bad things because "your" guy is doing them.

Fuck that.

[SammyWinstonJack]

50. +1

:thumbsup:

[spiritual_gunfighter]

84. +1

and that is basically what it all comes down to. Those that choose to do that and those that dont.

[Joe Fields]

85. thank you. +1

[Fumesucker]

9. Thirty years of watching the country slide into the toilet?

Some of us are tired and getting fatalistic.

The downward slide may have slowed a trifle under Obama but it has by no means stopped.

There's an interesting post that explains it a bit here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x551811

The money quote: "The people in touch with reality are not making the decisions and setting the policies around here."

[ThomWV]

10. What a silly question. We, the common people, are losing. That's why.

[liberaltrucker]

11. Simple, really

Because we HAVE been defeated .... by our own
Party "leadership". Look no farther than Reid.

[LostinVA]

13. *yawn*

[JVS]

14. If you never give your base any red meat it dies.

[zipplewrath]

15. Reality based thinking

I'm not going to wear rose colored glasses just because it might affect the larger body politic. I'd dispute that any of my posts are "defeatist", although they do touch on areas of severe discontent. I am terribly disappointed and this place got started because people were terribly disappointed in what was going on.

[Donnachaidh]

16. more importantly, why are so many re-labeling dissent as *defeatists*?

That's a decidedly repuke tactic.

[LostinVA]

19. +1

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[alsame]

23. Because if you express any disappointment, you are helping

to elect President Palin. Or so I've been told in many threads.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

45. you got it. Either we are obedient sheeple, or

Sister Sarah takes the reins of our country, and drives it off that cliff that ends at the edge of the Pacific.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

24. Exactly and this is the new meme here.

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Javaman]

26. spot on.

people can now get their posts deleted when calling someone a freep, repuke, etc, but we the dissenters are constantly called "defeatist" and yet that is still allowed.

Funny how that works, huh?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. Cuz *splinterists* was even sillier and "dirty hippies", "reds", and "radicals" are so yesterday.

[LWolf]

51. The message police have been really busy recently, on a lot of fronts. nt

[inna]

66. +100

[Hell Hath No Fury]

79. T for Truth, there.

:applause:

I wasn't labeled a "defeatist" when I was bitching about W's failed policies and actions. :eyes:

[Radical Activist]

113. There's both.

Yes, dissent is important. Yet, there are also posters explicitly campaigning against Obama no matter the issue, no matter what he does. That's not intelligent dissent and it's not about the issues for some.

[Tailormyst]

20. If using the term "cheerleaders" is off limit, then use of the opposite "defeatists" should also be

[elocs]

27. Yes, labels are used at DU to marginalize and belittle posters' points of view.

It is an attempt to shut them up and stop what they are saying.

"Cheerleader" has been used here as a derisive label for those who by someone's definition are too much or constantly in agreement with Obama whether that is strictly true or not. The point is to smear and tag them with the label. It is an intellectually lazy way of discussion or debate and is used to avoid any real explanation of difference of opinion. I heard a Republican the other day use the label "wetback" instead of having to address the problem with more than one word. It's lazy and simple-minded.

So the label "defeatist" is being used in the same way. Someone finds what they believe are too many negative or pessimistic posts and rather than address any specific issue it is more simple to just use the tag "defeatist".

So yes, "defeatist" would seem to be th polar opposite of "cheerleader" and neither label is particularly useful for any good discussion.

[LWolf]

53. Agreed. nt

[Bandit]

21. Please list the Happy things that are happening so we can celebrate.

What are the things that have transpired that make us the overwhelming favorites in the upcoming elections? How have the Democrats put Democratic ideals into policy?

[Bluenorthwest]

25. Hey Heterosexual Person,

Until your community's faith based bigotry, prejudice, and worship of injustice is defeated, you will probably have to endure hearing criticisms of your community.

The harder they come, the harder they fall, one and all. So hold on tight. Long way down.

[rbrnmw]

38. Heterosexual Person? Are you basically calling me a homophobe?

If you mean me I take great offense to that My first husband who is still my very best friend is gay I still love him dearly and he left with my blessing and encouragement after 20 years we still talk on almost a daily basis I love him and he loves me unconditionally our love will never die because it rises above and beyond sexuality I also have loved and accepted his partners except the abusive one, the reason I did not like him was because he was abusive and was hurting my loved one. You know nothing about me or my beliefs when it comes to Civil Rights for ALL Americans.

[Tailormyst]

40. You fail at reading comprehension

The poster was NOT calling you a homophobe- They were explaining why a ONE group of liberals have a problem with Obama and are angry enough to yell loudly about it. If you had stopped defending your hero from all the meanie liberal activists long enough to actually read it perhaps your response would not look so incredibly stupid.

[rbrnmw]

43. So why the hey Heterosexual Person part at all? nt

[Tailormyst]

58. Still you won't take a minute to figure out what the poster was saying to you

Take a second and try and see things from the perspective of a group ( actually a bunch of different groups) who worked VERY hard to get control of congress and the WH and now see it continuing to move to the right every day and working in direct opposition to the causes they have worked so hard on for decades.

[rbrnmw]

63. I understand this frustration and I am sorry I too have worked hard

on many issues but I am willing to give it a little more time the negative Obama posts started almost immediately after the election

[Tailormyst]

68. And that's fine, insulting people who aren't willing to was not

I think you meant well, I also thing we agree on alot more then we disagree on.

I have DAILY had the urge to respond to a group of people with terms like kool-aid, cheerleader, fanboy, etc. But I don't. I stop myself and recognize that they have a right to feel differently then I do and that it would not be right for me to call them names. Calling names stops discussion and creates more animosity.

[rbrnmw]

64. I understand this frustration and I am sorry I too have worked hard

on many issues but I am willing to give it a little more time the negative Obama posts started almost immediately after the election

[WorseBeforeBetter]

100. Rahm Emmanuel, Lawrence Summers, Timothy Geithner, Donnie McClurkin and Rick Warren.

Need I say more?

[jgraz]

28. THe first step in recovery is admitting there's a problem

Let us know when you're ready to take that first step.

[Individualist]

70. +1

[Steely_Dan]

29. I'll Just Quietly Repost This....

I think that many people gave President Obama the benefit of the doubt very early even when he was making appointments that (even you might agree) were questionable at best. However, when the road that Mr. Obama was (is) on continued to raise even more questions, many of us began to wonder if we were being hoodwinked in the name of bipartisanship...an approach that smacked more of naivete than a sophisticated political strategy.

Yes, Congress is a major factor. However, the President has a bully pulpit. And for whatever reason, he has not successfully articulated a message that matches either literally or figuratively the speeches he gave during the campaign. The soaring rhetoric of the campaign which emphasized hope and change gave many of us the courage to say...Okay, one more time. It took a while, but now I believe him.

I can only imagine how some feel after giving so much to the President during the campaign only to see so many Bush policies continue taking our country down the wrong road. Okay, so some had unrealistic expectations. But can you blame them after the kind of campaign that Mr. Obama conducted. For many, that campaign now sounds more like a "sales" job appealing to our desire to "believe." Disappointment is necessarily tied to expectation. Is there any doubt that the author of our expectations was (to some extent) Mr. Obama himself.

In the President's defense, much of the fever during the campaign had a "life of its own." It became something even bigger than Obama himself. However, while he stated that it would take time, the "hope and change" mantra continued right through November.

There is a sense among some that what was left by the previous administration is so devastating that no single person could correct the ship of state in a mere 18 months. This is reasonable to consider. However, there is another school of thought that says what was left by the Bush administration is so devastating that only quick and decisive action commensurate to the problems we face is required.

It is my belief that people on the left (especially those who would frequent this board) are passionate about their beliefs. "Passion" runs hand-in-hand with being impatient...I'm one of those. I don't feel like we have the time to negotiate with the RW in the name of cooperation. The problems are too deep.

Many would love the rest of us to look at what has been accomplished in 18 months. And indeed, we should not discount the fact that some progress has been made. I "try" and remind myself of that everyday. However, some would argue that the progress that has been made is somewhat hollow. There is nothing worse than a half-ass attempt. It just doesn't feel right. It is analogous to how I feel towards the Repugs. There is very little that I agree with (policy-wise) with my friends on the Right. However (and this is important), I KNOW where they are coming from. I know what to expect from them and I am not surprised when they side with corporations to the debt of the rest of us. What angers me (and I believe many others) is when our own party does not act like the party we have supported and sacrificed for. This is far more devastating than anything the Right could do.

Because the President didn't grab the message right at the start and let the RW frame the arguments (which is just simply beyond my understanding), Mr. Obama has now been made out to be a Marxist, Socialist...the most Liberal President in history...etc.etc. Well...if the RW has successfully convinced the wingnuts out there that he is as extreme as they say, then you might as well make bold strokes towards what is fair for the "people" of this country and not bow to the right cowering and shaking at every Fox News report.

I will try and be patient. I will try and understand that what I thought would happen with Healthcare didn't happen, but someday it will. I'll try and understand for now, that it is still okay to listen in on my telephone conversations. I'll try and put behind me the fact that we committed horrible war crimes and no one was brought to justice. I'll give it go to accept that banks received bailout money with little or no regulation to insure that the money (at least a crumb or two) would make it to the people. I'll try and accept my new role on the "radical left" when it wasn't that long ago, I was considered just a Democrat. I'll try and give my "new" Democratic friends the time they need to show that they have not abandoned the essential planks that have served the Democratic Party for decades and made us the Party of the People.

-P

[snooper2]

30. Majority of people come online to complain...

FYI

[Fumesucker]

31. I don't know about you..

But I live in red state hell, I have no one in real life with whom I can rationally discuss politics.

I come online to engage in discussion on subjects that interest me with people who actually have a damn clue.

[unapatriciated]

62. same here, Red State Hell.

I go to little five points once in awhile it reminds me of home. Thank god hubby and I share the same views

[JonLP24]

81. +1

I just came walked passed a row of houses with nothing but Republican campaign signs and I wonder why I don't have a life, LOL.

[kctim]

32. Come on, that's not really fair

the majority of people on DU are liberals/progressives, which is the minority opinion even in their own party. As with all minority opinions, they feel they are not being heard and they come here to speak their mind. That's not fueling any fire and is hardly defeatist.

[NJmaverick]

34. That's a good question and an excellent point

[rbrnmw]

35. My wording was too strong I am sorry.. I just wish more would try some patience

with a man who IS the first black man to be elected POTUS The racist teapublicans will use even this forum to further prove how "hated" Obama is I don't want worse than Bush that is what I meant

[JVS]

39. Maybe he should have considered how likely the racist teapublicans were to support him when he...

was busy compromising with them.

[rbrnmw]

41. You have a point but, if he pushed back

more they would label him as a militant black man

[JVS]

42. "they would label him as a militant black man"

Yeah, because they're really soft-pedaling on that Kenyan Socialist Secret Muslim Terrorist vibe.

[myrna minx]

48. They have labeled him anyway.

Is the President a marxist, socialist, communist, nazi, racist, muslim and a Kenyan? They have labeled him all of those things, while he was negotiating with them. They will continue to label him, and us - so he might as well stand up for something and push back, yet he chooses not to push back. :shrug:

[TheKentuckian]

61. Are there assertions not completely absurd that they make?

Has the President not been as fair, willing to compromise, reasonable, ready to incorporate the oppositions ideas, and gracious as you've ever seen our heard about a President ever being?

You cannot pretend the nature of the Republicans is different than it exists in actuality.
A bully responds best to being busted about the mouth, nose, and eyes and by having their ears boxed.

Obama's act is pure blood in the water to these sharks and it alienates people that should be having his back, but they are spurned in worthless attempts to placate the intractable.

[Tailormyst]

56. I don''t give a shit what color he is

many of us have been working and waiting long enough. We see people like you asking for a pass because of his color, when he is specifically trying to stall civil rights for other minority groups and it is infuriating. We see that "first black man to be elected POTUS" moving more and more to the right and solidifying Bush policies and it infuriates those of us who worked so hard over the years to get control of congress and the WH. The anger is NOT just at the President it is rightfully also aimed at his administration, the Senate, the Congress and the Media.

You expect people to put aside issues and causes they have spent lifetimes on just because "the first black man to be elected POTUS" needs more time ( with absolutely no sign that he will) to do a 180 and begin moving in a leftward direction. We will not shut up, we will not be hypocrites and we will not join your happy little fanclub. This is Real life and real issues that effect REAL people. His dog, his beautiful (and amazingly intelligent) wife, his kids, his abs.... none of that means ANYTHING. Issues and how we move forward on important issues is what matters.

If you don't want to see anything negative, just don't click on the threads.

[jgraz]

77. + 10000000

[WingDinger]

44. Because we expect Obama to show all the cajone's.

[SidDithers]

73. wat...nt

Sid

[dionysus]

108. sarah is that you?

[WingDinger]

116. Some Dems, like Sarah, expect Obama to do all the heavy lifting, and risks.

[fascisthunter]

46. nice try at attacking dissent

call folks defeatists all you want but it won't do as you hoped it would.

[Nye Bevan]

47. Many people are just naturally miserable complainers

OK, so Obama is not perfect and has not done everything that I hoped (gay rights is the biggest example of this). But I never lose sight of the fact that the incurious moron Bush is gone from the White House and that an intelligent young black man who would have been enslaved or segregated not so long ago has been elected President. And that Universal Health Care has been passed (a huge deal for me due to pre-existing conditions and job insecurity). And that we have a firm timetable for withdrawal from Iraq, and that Guantanamo is being closed.

Like I say things are not perfect (and they probably never will be). But all in all things are pretty good and I am pretty happy. But there are many people (like my late mother) who are not happy unless they are miserable.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

60. No one expected perfection, so you can let go of that notion in your attempt to argue. (n/t)

[Nye Bevan]

67. The misery contingent also tend to pick negative sounding usernames (nt)

[Tailormyst]

71. So who are the "misery contingent"

And how is your name calling any better then someone flinging insults like cheerleader or fanboy around? Try to answer that without sounding like a hypocrite.

[Nye Bevan]

75. People who ignore all of the positive things and focus on negative stuff

Like my late mother. No matter how many things there were to be happy about she would invariably find some reason to be miserable.

I am thrilled to have President Obama in the White House, and I am delighted about much of what he has achieved. I am also disgusted about some of the things he has not done. But I never lose sight of the big picture. Quite frequently I smile because Sarah Palin is not the Vice President of the United States.

[jgraz]

78. Your mommy problems aside...

Perhaps you should consider joining the "Reality Contingent" instead of seeing the world as one extreme or the other.

[Nye Bevan]

80. Which extreme do you think I belong to?

This is what I said in my post:

I am thrilled to have President Obama in the White House, and I am delighted about much of what he has achieved. I am also disgusted about some of the things he has not done.

Why does that make you think that I am not in the "Reality Contingent"?

[jgraz]

86. The extreme that views Obama's progressive critics as 100% negative

There are no such critics on this board. None.

[Nye Bevan]

88. In which thread did I state that "Obama's progressive critics are 100% negative"?

It wasn't this one.

[jgraz]

89. ah, we're playing word games now

The misery contingent also tend to pick negative sounding usernames

Clearly implying that the misery contingent have accounts on DU.


So who are the "misery contingent"
People who ignore all of the positive things and focus on negative stuff

Defining DU's "misery contingent" as people who are 100% negative about Obama.


You'll find you'll get a lot more respect around here if you have the courage to stand behind your statements instead of playing silly "who me?" games.

[Nye Bevan]

90. I count myself among "Obama's progressive critics".

I stated that I was disgusted by some of the things he has not done, and cited gay rights as a specific example.

But I am not 100% negative. I am happy to give Obama credit for the things that he *has* achieved.

[jgraz]

92. So then which DUers were you referring to as members of the "misery contingent"?

Again, point to a single example of a DUer "who ignore(s) all of the positive things and focus(es) on negative stuff".

[Nye Bevan]

94. Come on, you know the rules. "Calling out" specific DUers is not allowed.

But I am thinking of the same folks that Trumad refers to as "self loathing members" in Reply 1.

[jgraz]

97. You mean the ones who don't exist.

Thanks, that clears it up.

[Nye Bevan]

98. You're welcome. And stay positive.

The USA has Universal Health Care. And the Dow is up 34% since Obama's inauguration day. Be happy!

[jgraz]

102. No thanks, I'll stay realistic.

The US doesn't have anything close to Universal Health Care, and won't even after Obama's Insurance Bailout Bill takes effect. The Dow is up due to the same unregulated casino gambling that led to the 2008 crash -- the same gambling that Obama's alleged "reform" has done nothing to address, thus assuring that even this fake prosperity will only help the banksters and their cronies.

Being positive is one thing. Living in a soap bubble of delusion is another.

[Ignis]

117. LOL @ "The USA has Universal Health Care"

Regardless of how one feels about the state of the HCR bill that we ended up passing--good, great, lousy, not enough, not soon enough, whatever--it's a far cry from actually having Universal Health Care.

Words mean things.

[SidDithers]

93. :snort:...nt

Sid

[jgraz]

96. Congratulations, Sid. That is the most intelligent, articulate post I've ever seen you write.

In a couple of weeks, you may be ready to move up to :grunt;. Have you been taking night classes?

[SidDithers]

105. Thank you...

Sometimes, a single, derisive snort is all that's required. This was one of those times.

Sid

[Radical Activist]

114. Yep.

Ideology is usually a reflection of personality.

[AngryOldDem]

52. I see sunshine, lollypops, and rainbows.

Is that better now?

[Nye Bevan]

54. Like I was just saying.........

:D

[WorseBeforeBetter]

57. Because back in 2008 when we saw this political cartoon...

we knew it was true, and here we are.



(Nice talking point, by the way.)

[backscatter712]

59. I don't know about you, but I'm fucking sick of the negativity. n/t

[TBF]

106. Right, and I'm fucking sick of tax breaks for billionaires, wars taking our entire

budget, unemployment and social security subject to cutting.

I am also sick of the homeless, people who are gay, and teachers being treated as second class citizens. I'm sick of union-busting. I'm sick of people going hungry. I'm mortified that 90% of African American children in this country are on food stamps.

And you know what? I'm not going to shut up about it because it offends your sensitive sensibilities.

I'll shut up about it when the problems are fixed.

[inna]

111. +1 and thank you; that needed to be said.

:thumbsup:

[old mark]

65. Rec. Too many people believe the Media is truthful when it talks about

the GOP "victories" coming in November....The GOP doesn't really believe it, we should not either...

Rec.
mark

[Barack2theFuture]

69. we've been utterly thwarted by our enemies,

and utterly sold out by our "friends"

[Individualist]

72. Why so many posts attempting (and failing) to suppress dissent?

[Greyhound]

74. If anybody's playing into republik hands, it's the democrats.

[TK421]

82. I've given up trying to figure that out....it's pointless, there is just no hope n/t

[Patriot 76]

91. Misery loves company.

[Posteritatis]

95. Martyred, despairing outrage feels good; it's addictive

No, I'm serious.

Put yourself in the mindset of being one of the poor, benighted few who Understands The Truth The Rest Of The Sheeple Just Can't Understand.

It simultaneously makes you special - one of The Few Who Understand - which makes you better than everyone else out there, which means you don't need to pay attention to whatever they have to say other than to sneer at it, which reinforces your being oh-so special. It's often made even better here with the claim that it's Republican spies causing the defeatist posts, but the possibility that the beams are in our own eyes falls under the "don't need to pay attention to everyone else" clause.

If there's a large enough group of people present that some others actually will reinforce your attitude, so much the better.

I'm sure just about everyone here - even those annoyed at this trend on DU; I know I am - have been stuck in that loop at least a few times in their lives as adults, and a hell of a lot before then, and there's a ridiculous kind of reassurance about being there. You get to be Right, and damn everything else.

[jgraz]

99. Actually, nothing is helping revive the GOP more than denialists who insist nothing is wrong

Stick your fingers in your ears and hum the Star Spangled Banner. Maybe it will help you deal with the crushing defeats that your political wish fulfillment is helping to bring about.

[1badjedi]

112. +1

[spanone]

103. differing points of view is what makes this sight what it is....

[Radical Activist]

115. I remember when many criticized Gibbs for aiding Republicans when he said they might win Congress.

They said his comment would help boost their chances by giving them encouragement and momentum. I don't think many of those critics apply the same standard to the constant predictions that Obama will betray us all and never do anything progressive. But, the same psychology is at work in either case.