Jesus , Why is "Socialist" almost a CURSE WORD in the USA

[UndertheOcean]

I never got that part of the US body Politic.

[shraby]

1. The never-ending propaganda against it instead of a

reasoned discussion of the pros and cons of such a system. As with any system except a dictatorship, there are pluses and minuses and it would bode well to take the pluses and make use of them.

[opihimoimoi]

2. GOP PSYOPS...been at it for YEARS...bearing fruit these daze

[white_wolf]

3. A lot of it is because

The Cold War and the Red Scare equated socialism with Stalinism and that message has been beaten into peoples heads since McCarthy and shows no signs of letting up. Just watch Glen Beck if you need proof. Disclaimer: I am not responsible for any illness that may and probably will occur from watching more than 2 minutes of Glen Beck.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Oh it goes to the early 19th century and the commune movement

well before, actually, than a certain pair published their books in 1848.

It is seen as a threat to the status quo, and yes we have had attempts at communes going back to oh the 1820s.

It is a tension in the body politic, and in a way those who control the message have in many ways triumphed. At the same time perhaps not, since we do have a strong survival of the word. This does not mean that most people know what it means but that is another story.

[maxsolomon]

10. exactly. it's been demonized for over a 100 years as anti-american

and seditious. yet it was part and parcel of the labor movement that brought us Labor Day, the minimum wage, paid vacation, and the 40 hour work week.

McCarthy was just the nail in the coffin of American Socialism - & it's been that long since the spectre of Socialism has been as able to scare the fuck out of old, ignorant white people (who could use more of it in their lives).

[Papagoose]

5. Not sure what is worse in the US - "Socialist" or "Atheist"

Being one or the other can make one a pariah.
Being both makes one's life difficult at times.
Being both while living in the south is downright dangerous.

Yes, I know first hand!

[white_wolf]

7. So what does just being a socialist in the south get me?

Am i only in a slight amount of danger of being lynched?

[villager]

6. Because their masters have trained "the people" well..

n/t

[DailyGrind51]

8. It is the only argument to get people to vote against their own interests!

[LeftinOH]

9. Lately, the word "socialist" is a substitute for a pejorative term that is no longer acceptable

to say in public. Doesn't make any sense, but that hardly matters to the people flinging the word around.

[lib2DaBone]

11. The GOP is predictable in their media tactics...

Fear...Terror..God..Guns..Gays....Divide & Conquer

So and So_________________________________ (fill in your favorite scape goat group of the day) is coming to take food off your table, rape your wife and kill your dog... if you don't vote Republican.

[Orsino]

12. Because the TV says it is.

Your argument is invalid. x(

[JVS]

13. Because Gus Hall, Lenin, and Stalin are just waiting to jump up from the grave and pummel old ladies

[Spazito]

14. The same reason "sensible" and "pragmatic" are becoming almost...

curse words on DU, it works for those who want to denigrate those with different views, imo.

[Greyhound]

17. It's about trying to silence opposition and promote a false narrative.

And it only serves to escalate conflict and harden positions, eliminating debate.

"You're with us or your against us" is a stupid position regardless of who takes it.

[Spazito]

18. Yep, it certainly is about trying to silence opposition and promote a..

false narrative whether it be the demonization of the words 'socialism, Liberal, sensible, pragmatic'. It is interesting it is not just the right that uses this tactic. It is disappointing when the left uses it, especially given the very legitimate outrage at the successful demonization of the term "Liberal" by the rabid right.

[Greyhound]

20. Your position is murky. Do you have one? n/t

[Spazito]

23. Yes, in a word, hypocrisy...

Professing outrage over the demonization of terms like "socialism" and "Liberal" by the right while some here on DU do the same by demonizing the terms "sensible" and "pragmatic".

Using tactics such as the above should generate outrage regardless of WHO is doing it, imo.

I hope the murkiness is now less murky.

[Greyhound]

24. Yes it is. But I don't see your point, in that, the words have not been demonized,

rather their misuse to justify impracticable and contradictory positions, following that with open hostility and outright bullying. There is a specific group that coordinates these attacks and attempts to stifle discussion, and they are who the snark is directed at.

[Spazito]

29. Hmmm, "There is a specific group..."...

does that not equate to an admission that the tactic being used here is, indeed,:

"... about trying to silence opposition and promote a false narrative.
And it only serves to escalate conflict and harden positions, eliminating debate."

as you espoused in an earlier post?

Why use the terms "sensible" and "pragmatic" as a way to denigrate those who do not hold the same view as you unless the intent is to "stifle discussion"?

[Greyhound]

48. Yes it does,

It is also apparent that there is a "some animals are more equal than others" policy at work. So, it's a protest as well.

[Spazito]

49. What do you mean when you say...

"some animals are more equal than others" and that's "policy at work"? Do I gather from your post, then, that the demonization of terms, be they "Liberal" and "socialism" as is done by the rabid right or "sensible" and "pragmatic" as is done here on DU is to be considered a valid methodology used to protest (protest what I am not clear on from your post)?

[Greyhound]

50. The first rule of fight club. n/t

[Spazito]

52. "fight club"? An animal fight club? Is that a toon or something?

Must be, sounds silly enough.

[DireStrike]

33. Nah, different cases.

One term was messed up and beaten off of its definition by the group trying to denigrate it. The other was messed up and beaten off of its definition by the group trying to identify with it.

[Spazito]

35. There is ONE difference but it is not what you espouse...

The rabid right use the tactic of demonizing terms like "socialism" and "Liberal" to denigrate the left and not 'their own' whereas some on the left use the tactic of demonizing terms like "sensible" and "pragmatic" to denigrate others on the left which is, imo, unfortunate to say the least.

[TheKentuckian]

36. Nah, I think it is the people that use such labels as excuses for ineffective and counterproductive

actions that make the words leave a bitter taste.

Such words were never a problem until those with malleable ethics and nearly devoid of principle made them armor against criticism.

[Spazito]

39. Interesting...

Demonizing terms like "socialism", "Liberal", "sensible" and "pragmatic" are tactics used used to stifle discussion and, in that context, I agree with you when you post:

"Such words were never a problem until those with malleable ethics and nearly devoid of principle made them armor against criticism."

[EC]

15. Because the capitalists believe capitalism won't survive

a socialist society...

[blindpig]

27. True

Socialism cannot tolerate capitalism, to attempt so always ends poorly.

As long as Capitalism has the strength to alter the playing field to it's advantage it will, due diligence demands no less.

Therefore we must kill capitalism.

[county worker]

16. Because of the cold war. Russia was called socialist and from the 40's to the 80's we were scared

shitless that the godless commie socialists were going to force their ideals on us.

[mmonk]

19. The same way liberal is.

It is taught.

[DefenseLawyer]

21. What the hell is these reds anyways?

Timothy scraped a little hill level in the bottom of the ditch. The sun made his white bristle beard shine. "They's a lot a fellas wanta know what reds is." He laughed. "One of our boys foun' out." He patted the piled earth gently with his shovel. "Fella named Hines--got 'bout thirty thousan' acres, peaches and grapes--got a cannery an' a winery. Well, he's all a time talkin' about 'them goddamn reds.' 'Goddamn reds is drivin' the country to ruin,' he says, an' 'We got to drive these here red bastards out.' Well, they were a young fella jus' come out west here, an' he's listenin' one day. He kinda scratched his head an' he says, 'Mr. Hines, I ain't been here long. What is these goddamn reds?' Well, sir, Hines says, 'A red is any son-of-a-bitch that wants thirty cents an hour when we're payin' twenty-five!' Well, this young fella he thinks about her, an' he scratches his head, an' he says, 'Well, Jesus, Mr. Hines. I ain't a son-of-a-bitch, but if that's what a red is--why, I want thirty cents an hour. Ever'body does. Hell, Mr. Hines, we're all reds.'" Timothy drove his shovel along the ditch bottom, and the solid earth shone where the shovel cut it.
Tom laughed. "Me too, I guess." . . .

[Enthusiast]

30. The Grapes Of Wrath.

Fantastic!

[MicaelS]

22. IMO, because of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics...

Which was the great boogeyman of the US for 70+ years. That is nearly 3 generations.

When the history of the country is that they murder their leadership,
then have a civil war when another 20 million die,
and many other people who are intellectuals, educated and / or property owners flee for their lives,
have every thing they have ever owned, or worked for stolen from them...

All that tends to give a very bad portrait of country with the word "Socialist" in it's name.

The attitude was / is, that if the "Socialists" did it there, they can do it here, and people don't want to have their families murdered by a group of people whom appear to be little more than a mob.

And just to make it clear, I do not believe the USSR was a Socialist Republic. It was little more than just another totalitarian nation, and was just as bad as any that ever existed, and that includes Nazi Germany. The USSR gave Socialism the bad connotation that it has today in the US.

Perhaps if Stalin had not gained power things would have been different.

That is my $.02.

[DireStrike]

34. Seventy years?

1945-1991...? What do you mean exactly?

[Diclotican]

41. DireStrike

DireStrike

USSR existed from 1928, when the new republic of Union of Soviet Sosialistic Republics was made law, to 1991 when it ended, rather abrutly and with far more peace than anyone could predict...

1945-1991 Was the COLD WAR, when East and West Europe - and the world was scared to near death becouse the superpowers was treating to blow the other guy to the next week with nuclear weapons...

Go to a decent libary and study.. And you wil know and understand more

Diclotican

[DireStrike]

43. Oh sure, I just don't believe that it was a bugbear all that time

Might have been scary to the rich property owners, but not the American people at large.

[Diclotican]

44. DireStrike

DireStrike

The rich property owners have allways been afraid of change, specially big changes, as the russian revolution was in 1917... And if you know some of european history, before and after 1917, you would understand that the big owners, and the big money in Europe was scared to death, over the posibility that something like a revolution would happend in their country too.. And acted acordingly to defuse the working class willigness to go to extremes... In Europe, it ended up in a few differences from the past, as reforms to the right to the working class defused most of the anger who was clearly in the working class between 1917 and 1960... All Europes wellfare, both before the war, and specially after world war two, happend mostly becouse the big money owners, and the property owners, and the political big-wigs desided it was not wort the chance, to keep the working man under the boot... It was far more easy to try to make peace with them, and give them a chance to get a decent life - Better to loose some rights, than to loose everything you know...

And after the war, when everything had to be rebuild anyway, it was far more easy for everyone, to get a decent life than anytime before in the history of man, in Europe at least... And it all happend, in the shaddow of the Red empire of USSR... And for maybe two decades, the right dosent even had a voice in most of Western Europe, as different stripes off social-democratic parties was remodelering the consept of Europe, to something that was not posible before the war... The "noble class", and the conservative class of before 1939, had more or less killed of themself, in the war, and was on the same level (for the most part) as the "working class":. Therefore, when the playing level was even, it was discovered, that the working class, also had some bright minds... Who with education could end up as bosses, not just in smal industry, and in some smaler companies.. But in multi-nationally companies, with thousands of pepole under their hand.. Big wigs from before the war, discovered that the sons, of their servants, often rised to their sons bosses.. And the whole system of things got very different from the 1920s, to the end of the 1990s....

What the big money, and property owners in the US know, and the others in US dosen't know, is that they could very easely bee overturn by the masses... But as long as the big money can split you in many piaces, as they do today, it is less than posible that the masses could ever manage to even dint the big property owners in US... And is making the biggest bank robbery in the history of man more posible than anytime...

And it all come back to the fact that most americans, cant understand what power they REALLY have, to change the direction in their land.. They are to scared about "the red scare" and social justise, to even try to fight the big money, who want you all to be serfs under their heel... And I also have to say, most americans are to ignorant of the world outside their own little corner of the world, to really care about the world, and everything that come in to US, is sanitized to the american taste of things... Even when the taste is wrong, and the sanitized propaganda you got, is hollow, and full of crap.... (Sorry the bluntness) Most americans, at the outside at least, look ignorant, and maybe little stupid about the world outside US, and could not care less what happend in the world, as long as you can show your american idol, and watch "News" on Fox, most americans could not care if the rest of the world was in fire... US have a feeling og entitlement the rest of the world, just dosen't have...

Diclotican

[JVS]

38. It's no coincidence that the American worker's standard of living has collapsed since the USSR...

became conciliatory under Gorbachev.

For all its faults, the USSR was still a state of the proletariat, and now that they are no longer there to act as the "bad cop" of the international labor movement we get treated like dogshit.

And the leaders of movements like "solidarity". Now they are in cahoots with the neocons.

[damntexdem]

25. Hell, even 'liberal' or 'progressive' is.

And they're working on making 'moderate' a curse word.

And the one-word explanation one can take from Gramsci: hegemony.

[kctim]

26. Why?

Because our founders placed limits on government and placed individual rights in the front. This created a sense of individualism that is still cherished to this very day.
The word socialist will be a curse word until the majority of Americans lose that sense of individualism and embrace socialism.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

28. They picture cabbage boiling babushka wearing women in shapeless shifts and thick shoes

because that is what will happen if we get single payer healthcare.

[Enthusiast]

31. For decades the right in this

country has defined 'Socialism' as indistinguishable from Stalinist Communism. They never mention European Democratic Socialism. The only kind of socialism they recognize is the very worst possible example. And like in Soviet Russia, propaganda has had an effect.

[karynnj]

32. I think if enough of the media took almost any somewhat complex word and always used it negatively

it would become something seen negatively.

I just returned from a vacation where an English friend of mine, an English teacher, spoke of attending a seminar (in UK) on media. One thing they were shown was the Obama hope poster and the ever present tea bag poster of Obama. The people there got the white face inferences, but were confused why he was labeled "socialist" on it - because no one there thought it was "bad".

This is another result of their greater control of the media. It has taken nearly a year of bad behavior for the tea party to be disliked.

[and-justice-for-all]

37. Well, I am a Democratic Sociallist...

and I do not give a shit if some one does not like it...It is even on my facebook that I am.

[felix_numinous]

40. It's not socialism if international corporations are bailed out with our tax dollars,

or international banks, or international wars funded so the pentagon can 'lose' trillions, or wall street so they can gamble some more with our money. (sarcasm)



Socialism is when our tax dollars are used to help--ouselves--all of us (not just white upper crust). But it is made into a boogeyman so they can continue to rob us of our tax dollars, not represent us, and just take the money to use for their own ends.

Got it??? :

[MikeNY]

47. Easier to say socialism than corporatism... esp. by those a part of it n/t

[indepat]

42. Watching conservative election ads in TN, you unmistakably get the message that liberal,

Pelosi, and Obama-care are coded curse words of the slime-drenched variety. :P

[white_wolf]

46. God I know

those ads make me wanna puke.

[JoeyT]

45. For the exact same reason I keep hearing the phrase

"Fascist liberals". The phrase "Fascist Socialist" comes to mind as well. And I keep hearing how Hitler was a liberal and loved gays.

Stupid people are stupid. And there ain't no fixing 'em. They've got no interest in learning what the words mean. They've been told they're bad words and they're going to use them as such. I'd rather just use real profanity for emphasis when I feel it necessary.

[Xicano]

51. I never understand it either.

Especially since all those who have drank the propaganda koolaid don't seem to mind one bit that socialism is a large part of USA economics. That is of course "corporate socialism" a.k.a. subsidies, tax breaks, pork barrel spending, etc.

n/t