Want good talking points? Gay vs. the Bible

[pkz]

The very best argument I have ever seen when someone throws religion into the mix on Gay Issues.....

Have you READ Leviticus?

oh yeah, laying with a man is a sin, so isn't eating flesh of split hooved animals, seafood without scales...oh and then there's the definition of "unclean"


I was raised Catholic, so honestly the King James version was under the coffee table, but no one ever opened it, unless to write family events.
I took SOME interest (under pressure from in-laws) in the Church of Christ. So I read the Bible...a Christian, by definition is one that believes in Christ and the New Testament, the Old Testament is used for reference only....one does not live by those laws any longer.

So why do Christian Fundamentalists pick and choose their verses/arguments????????

God tells Moses how to perform sacrifices 1-4

God gives Moses laws on sin sacrifices
5-6

God establishes the priesthood 6-10

God defines clean and unclean 11-15

God further defines atonement sacrifices 16-17

God gives Moses laws on blood, sex, social ethics, grooming, killing for transgression
17-20

God gives Moses priestly laws 21-22

God gives Moses laws on Feasts, blasphemy, real estate, slaves
23-25

God will bless or curse based on lawfulness 26

God tells how offerings can be bought back 27

http://ponderingtruth.blogspot.com/2008/08/03-book-of-leviticus-summarized.html#ch11

[HelenWheels]

1. Bible beliefs

First you have to believe in the bible for it to convince you of anything. Why should I believe the bible is anything more than a book written by men? And then they say it is "inspired" by god. How do I know that?

[pkz]

2. that is my point

Fundamentals WANT us to believe like they do....and they do not even have a valid argument.
They feel free to pick and choice their beliefs and then expect us to buy it?

nope.

[Motown_Johnny]

3. I agree but I think your approach is to specific

When engaged in these discussions I paint the entire old testament as being irrelevant. Because these discussions I engage in have only been with people who consider themselves "Christians" I simply tell them to follow the teachings of Christ.

I try to get them to quote Jesus about things like what they need to reach back into the old testament for. They can't do it. Those quotes don't exist.

[cbdo2007]

4. I typically use the divorce argument.

Jesus never says anything about gays but specifically calls divorce a sin. So, why haven't we banned divorce?

[LynneSin]

7. Because these dumbasses aren't following Jesus

They are following Paul. A man who was never prophesized in the old testament and was one of thousands inspired by Jesus to spread his word. Somehow they equate that if Paul said it then it must have been what Jesus said/done.

:grr:

[Bluenorthwest]

9. Actually he calls divorce more than a sin

He calls it a deception which makes prostitutes and whoremongers out of the participants. Strong stuff indeed. He said only the first marriage is true, the other is not a marriage at all.

[pipi_k]

5. Why bother getting into a pissing match?

I mean, people can throw bible verses at each other till the end of time.


What it all boils down to is this...

It's none of their fucking business who wants to marry whom. If they think it's wrong and disgusting, then so be it. But they don't have the right to deny basic human rights to others just because THEY think it's "wrong".

Period.

[JoePhilly]

8. Because its fun to screw with the thumpers ...

The OP focuses on Leviticus ... I like the Book of Deuteronomy or as I like to call it, the Book of Debauchery.

That book has some great insanity in it, including one section in which, if a man rapes a women, he has to marry her, because he has made her unclean.

Its fun to ask them if their daughter gets raped, should she end up married to the rapist ... and would they accept their new son-in-law.

Drives them nuts.

[LynneSin]

6. If someone is a Christian - ask them where Jesus condemns homosexuality

Not the old testament.

Not Paul.

Nuff said.

[Bluenorthwest]

10. I'll take on the New Testament as well, no problem

What they have in the NT is nothing from Jesus at all, only from Saul known as 'St Paul'. Each of the anti equality haters who suggests that their own personal bigotry is 'christian' has only got Paul to quote. Using Obama as an example, as he says 'I'm a Christian so I am against equality', let's point out that only a hypocrite of the worst kind insists that others practice rules from a list they themselves ignore. Paul favored slaves obeying their masters, serving them as if they were God's proxy on Earth. Does the President agree? Paul says women must remain silent in gatherings, must abstain from the wearing of costly clothing, or anything that highlights physical beauty. Women are to be subservient to all men, and submissive to their husbands, never asking a question in public, only in private, and only to the husband. Michelle Obama and Barack Obama clearly reject all of those teachings out of hand, they do not believe those teachings, and if asked about slavery and the place of women, they would obviously not agree with 'St Paul'. But this does not stop them from clutching onto Paul's few 'anti gay' verses and shouting about them and using them to paint themselves as strict adherents to a faith they simply do not practice in the form they claim to practice it.
Then we could delve into the words of Christ about his followers. As an example, let's take the Inaugural. Obama and Co insisted that because of their adoration of Christ, they had to have public prayer from a bigot before he swore an oath upon the Bible before God. The fact is that Jesus forbade public prayers, saying only hypocrites do that, he taught that all prayer must be private. He also forbade his followers from the swearing of oaths of any sort. Especially oaths to God. Jesus said your yes should mean yes, and your no mean no, and that any oath more than that "comes from evil." So we had to do two things specifically forbidden by Jesus, in order to honor him? The hypocrisy and affectation of it all are towering.
The 'faith community' folks do not practice their own damn faith, nor do they even feel they should try to do so. In fact, they tend to make a huge display out of the breaking of the actual faith rules, they pray in public as a device, they swear to God, the women wear cashmere lined designer dresses with pearls and no arms while teaching groups with men present. I'm sorry, but Paul forbids Michelle's entire role in the administration, also Hillary's, Eliz. Warren, and all the women. Jesus forbids half of what any politician does in a day- 'spin' is most decidedly known as 'lying' in the Jesus world. To speak in a non direct manner which covers the truth is forbidden by the Christ.