Japan has my sincere apology for dropping the bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima

[NNN0LHI]

The horror.

Don

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NNN0LHI]

2. The newborn babies in the hospitals had it coming, eh?

I am really beginning to wonder about some of my fellow human beings.

Don

[MyNameGoesHere]

3. These people got what they deserved?

During the war, Japan brought many Korean conscripts to both Hiroshima and Nagasaki to work as forced labor. According to recent estimates, about 20,000 Koreans were killed in Hiroshima and about 2,000 died in Nagasaki. It is estimated that one in seven of the Hiroshima victims was of Korean ancestry.<8> For many years, Koreans had a difficult time fighting for recognition as atomic bomb victims and were denied health benefits. However, most issues have been addressed in recent years through lawsuits

Well that's ok I would feel the same about Texas if it got nuked.

[oneshooter]

6. They started the war, we finished it.

The death of the Koreans is on Japan. If they had not enslaved them(conscripted?) and forced them to work for the Japanese war machine they would not have been there.
There were more casualties due to B-29 raids on Tokyo than there were due to both bombs combined.



"Well that's ok I would feel the same about Texas if it got nuked."

How very Progressive of you. :sarcasm:



Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[MadHound]

7. Yeah, but the thing is, Japan was ready to surrender,

Serious behind the scenes negotiations were going on. The one sticking point, Japan wanted to keep their emperor as head of state, US wanted unconditional surrender. Japan refused to budge, we bombed Japan, who then surrendered, and we allowed Japan to keep their emperor:crazy:

In reality, our use of nukes was aimed more as a demonstration against Russia than as a means to ending the war. We killed hundreds of thousands of innocents in order to show the world that we had "The Big One."

[oneshooter]

16. The civilian authorities, under the Emperor were willing

However the Military still believed the war was winnable. There was a attempted coup before the surrender terms were accepted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%ABj%C5%8D_Incident

It seems highly unlikely that this so-called misunderstanding caused the unnecessary unleashing of the atomic bomb. The Potsdam Declaration Potsdam Declaration The Potsdam Declaration or the Proclamation Defining Terms for Japanese Surrender is a statement calling for the Surrender of Japan in World War II. On July 26 1945, United States President Harry S...
ultimatum allowed for only one acceptable answer, unconditional surrender. Any other answer would, as the declaration warned, cause "prompt and utter destruction." Unfortunately, it was only after destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki by atomic bombs, two assassination attempts on Prime Minister Kantarō SuzukiKantaro SuzukiBaron ' was an admiral in the Imperial Japanese Navy and 42nd Prime Minister of Japan from 7 April 1945 to 17 August 1945.Suzuki was a key voice in favor of Japan's acceptance of the Potsdam Declaration and full surrender to the Allied Powers, thus ending World War II.-Early life:Suzuki was born in...
, and an attempted military coup against the Emperor (the Kyūjō IncidentKyujo Incident The ' was an attempted military coup d'état in Japan at the end of the Second World War. It happened on the night of 14 August 1945 – 15 August 1945, just prior to announcement of Japan's surrender to the Allies...
), that the Emperor himself broadcast acceptance (Gyokuon-hōsōGyokuon-hosoThe , lit. "Jewel Voice Broadcast", was the radio broadcast in which Japanese emperor Hirohito read out the , announcing to the Japanese people that the Japanese Government had accepted the Potsdam Declaration demanding the unconditional surrender of the Japanese military at the end of World War II...
) of the Potsdam Declaration terms, i.e, unconditional surrender, officially ending the Pacific war.

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Mokusatsu


"We killed hundreds of thousands of innocents in order to show the world that we had "The Big One.""

No we killed more with fire bomb raids with B-29's. The bombs were used to prevent a planned invasion of the Japanese Home Islands.
Operation Downfall: http://www.kilroywashere.org/006-Pages/Invasion.html

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[MadHound]

20. Actually the military was making overtures to the US as early as April of 1945

They realized that there was no hope, no way out, especially once Germany cashed it in. Again, all they wanted was for their Emperor to be kept in power, if only as a titular figure. We rejected this one condition, though the offer was made time and again. Our official line was unconditional surrender, but funny how after the bombs were dropped, we accepted that one condition.

Again, please go do some research, somewhere besides Wiki and "Kilroy Was Here." Try going to your local library, better yet go to the library of your local college or university. There you will find peer reviewed articles and books that will reiterate my POV.

[county worker]

32. You can find books that support any point of view.

What I have read and, not on the net, is that Japan was willing to fight to the death. They had moved war production into the homes of the workers. The civilians were armed as best as could be against the coming invasion of the home land. Anyone in Japan talking of surrender or saying the war was lost was executed.

[ShamelessHussy]

43. therefore

"nuke'm"?

personally, i don't think even that "worst-case" scenario justifies nuking a militarily defeated nation.

It would almost be like nuking afghanistan now because there are still some diehard resistors there.

why?

[Confusious]

72. If you had read as much history about it as I have

Including first hand accounts of the war, and talking to your grandparents about it,

You would know WHY?

[ShamelessHussy]

77. sorry, but i don't believe i know you

or you, me.

However, nuking a defeated nation, that was looking to negotiate terms of surrender, TWICE, is unjustifiable, imho.

[Confusious]

78. With a reply like that

"sorry, but i don't believe i know you or you, me"

I'm glad I don't.

[Statistical]

82. The Taliban didn't have 400 million people under brutal occupation.

Hardly a similar situation.

[Confusious]

71. You know, I always wonder why

With the American fleet off the shores of Japan, the emperor just didn't get on the radio and say 'we surrender'

Would have been easy, don't you think?

Actually, that's how they did it, after the bomb. He recorded a message, and transmitted it to the people of Japan.

[Statistical]

81. Yup and American ships heard that message.

The US halted further bombing runs (conventional) based on that radio broadcast until official envoy arrived 2 days later.

[Statistical]

80. "Again, all they wanted was for their Emperor to be kept in power,"

BS. You keep reporting this bogus claim.

The Potsdam declaration never mentioned the empreror. The Japanese ultimately signed the Potsdam delcaration as is. We offered no further guarantees or assurances.

Japan was unwilling to accept ANY surrender that required them to:
a) adopt democratic elections
b) dismantle their military
c) give up empire ambitions
d) return conquered territory.
e) accept foreign troops in Japan.

There is a preponderance of evidence (from original documents in Japan) that they were utterly unwilling to give up conquered territories or their military. Period. There is no evidence what so ever that indicates Japan was willing to surrender "only" if we protected the Emperor. In the end they DID SURRENDER without any assurances the emperor would be protected. The US govt decided keep the Imperial line was useful in keeping the peace however they had no assurances at the time of surrender that would happen.

Allowing Japan to dictate the terms of surrender would have resulted in 400 million people under Brutual Imperial occupation and likely a 3rd world war in a decade after Japan had re-armed.

[county worker]

27. There is a good book titled "The Night Tokyo Burned" that tells the story of fire bombing very well.

http://www.amazon.com/Night-Tokyo-Burned-Hoito-Edoin/dp/0312913850/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1281113883&sr=8-1


I was born in May of 1946. My dad was in training at Fort Riley Kansas. He was supposed to take part in the invasion of Japan. My mom went to visit him in August 1945 just after the surrender. I was conceived there. I don't know if my dad would have survived the invasion. Millions on both sides would have died. Millions already died, many in the fire bombing. The war production was carried on in homes by civilians who were trained to defend the homeland against the coming invasion.

So many here have no idea of what the world was like then. They are like the scientist with his mind made up then go for evidence to prove his point.

[county worker]

24. I am not going to take a side for or against the bombing but your revisionist history

does suit one side very well.

[MyNameGoesHere]

21. Progressive? That's your mistake

I never claimed or do I wish to be a progressive. And if that's the best you got in response well I stand by my statement.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[H2O Man]

35. I agree 100%

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Texasgal]

64. deleted post most likely

Well that's ok I would feel the same about Texas if it got nuked.

Really?

Go fuck yourself.

[KansasVoter]

9. Read his posts in the gun forum. It will clarify his attitude!

[gratuitous]

11. And who will get what they deserve for Kama Aido?

You? Your kids? Or do you even know what happened at Kama Aido?

[niyad]

14. the hundreds of thousands of civilians got what they deserved? what the **** is the matter

with you? that is one of the sickest comments I have seen here in ages.

[AnArmyVeteran]

26. That's the kind of thought right wingers are consumed with.

Last fall, I listened to Beck's radio show a few minutes and he was ranting about how we should bomb all of Afghanistan. He said we shouldn't hold back our military might and just blow up entire cities. Beck, the self-professed 'christian' thinks it is fine to slaughter hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings to get a handful of the enemy. I wonder if he would like it if his entire town, along with his entire family, were killed by an occupying military just to kill one guilty person near where he lives?

Right wing conservative 'christians' are very sick, twisted people who have no regard for the lives of anyone who doesn't believe exactly what they believe. They all seem to be fascinated with war, killing and oppressing people. And they call themselves 'christians'. Fundamentalist conservative extremist Christians are just as bad as Al Qaeda, or maybe worse because they are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis and almost 6,000 American soldiers. But they don't care since the people they helped kill were 'lowly' Muslims. Can you imagine their outrage if we were going to attack a predominantly Christian nation? It's strange how not one 'journalist' or politician asked that simple question.

Note: I said 'lowly' above because that's how fundamentalist Christians view Muslims. Throughout time, Christians have first demonized their opponents and then killed or persecuted them, as they did when they practiced genocide against the American Indians and enslaved the blacks.

[superduperfarleft]

28. Here's its other greatest hit:

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x314808

Good to see there's a line drawn at least somewhere.

[H2O Man]

34. That is ugly.

No room for racism on DU.

[activa8tr]

55. I agree, nothing more to say. Some people !!

[-..__...]

4. Sorry?

I'm sorry I wasn't the one to drop the bomb myself.

[Submariner]

5. I'm sure the slaughtered children of Nanking China would feel the same way

if they were still alive.

[MadHound]

8. Funny thing about Nanking,

And other Japanese atrocities. We never held a war crimes trial to prosecute the offenders, like we did at Nuremburg. Nope, instead we agreed to sweep it all under the table in exchange for the Japanese authorities turning over all their research that they did using human test subjects. Yep, the US subverted justice in exchange for knowing how long a person could stay under water, what happens when flesh is burned, and the progression of death upon those exposed to biological and chemical agents.

[oneshooter]

13. Many of the offenders did not survive the war.

http://arts.cuhk.edu.hk/NanjingMassacre/NMTT.html

Two (Yosuke Matsuoka and Osami Nagano) of the twenty-eight defendants died of natural causes during the trial. One defendant (Shumei Okawa) had a mental breakdown on the first day of trial, was sent to a psychiatric ward and was released in 1948 a free man. The remaining twenty-five (25) were all found guilty, many of multiple counts. Seven (7) were sentenced to death by hanging, sixteen (16) to life imprisonment, and two (2) to lesser terms. All seven sentenced to death were found to be guilty of inciting or otherwise implicated in mass-scale atrocities, among other counts. Three of the sixteen sentenced to life imprisonment died between 1949 and 1950 in prison. The remaining thirteen (13) were paroled between 1954 and 1956, less than eight years in prison for their crimes against millions of people.
Two former ambassadors were sentenced to seven and twenty years in prison. One died two years later in prison. The other one, Shigemitsu, was paroled in 1950, and was appointed foreign minister in 1954.


Yes there were trials.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[MadHound]

19. Not for the authors of those atrocities,

Unlike Nazi Germany, where those who participated were held accountable for the Holocaust, in Japan, those who did the human experiments were never brought to trial.

Go do some research and reading on Unit 731. They were let off scott free, in exchange for handing over their research on human experimentation to the US.

[Hannah Bell]

93. ...

Many of the scientists involved in Unit 731 went on to prominent careers in post-war politics, academia, business, and medicine. Some were arrested by Soviet forces and tried at the Khabarovsk War Crime Trials; others surrendered to the American Forces.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

[Confusious]

87. We did hold war crimes trials for those people

You post is false. those in the Japanese military who started the war were hung.

[Hannah Bell]

92. bs,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Military_Tribunal_for_the_Far_East

[slackmaster]

10. I'm not sorry for the difficult decision made by a great Democratic President

The Bomb is bad and should never be used again. I don't need to be fed any more revisionist fairy tales.

I get it.

[neverforget]

15. Exactly.

[proteus_lives]

46. +10,000

[Deep13]

12. Not mine. nt

[MellowDem]

17. I sympathize with the innocent killed in war....

but I can't apologize to a murderous government that enabled said war in the first place. The only people who need to apologize are the Japanese leaders themselves of the time. They're mostly gone now anyways. And unfortunately, the Japanese have probably the worst revisionist history of any modern democracy when it comes to World War II.

[county worker]

31. In 1967 I went on R&R to Japan. On all the tours I took the tour guides kept saying how

Japan had to apologize for the war. They also said that the younger people did not feel that way.

[MellowDem]

41. Young people shouldn't feel that way...

it wasn't their time or their fault. They have learned from earlier generations and can move on. I don't think Japan should apologize anymore. That time has come and gone. But they should at least teach the facts of World War II and all the horror that went with it.

[renate]

74. absolutely

It was the Japanese government and military and their abominable actions that caused the dropping of the bomb on innocent civilians.

What happened to the people of Hiroshima and Nakasaki was beyond horrific. Those people were innocent and their suffering was entirely, utterly, completely undeserved. But Truman could have made no other responsible choice, given his options in a time of war. It was the Japanese government's behavior that rendered the U.S. decision to drop the bombs necessary.

[Ikonoklast]

18. Those that sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.

[county worker]

22. Every year I wait for these atom bomb threads. So far they are the best for resolving nothing.

There are the circumcision threads and the smoking threads and the ones about vaccinating girls and anti depressants, but these early August atom bomb threads are really my favorite.

[Bluerthanblue]

23. mine as well.

we knew of the civillian suffering that would follow, and did it anyway.

[LostInAnomie]

25. Not mine.

It saved many more lives on both sides.

I wonder if Japanese boards get swamped every year on the anniversary of the Rape of Nanking.

[uppityperson]

30. To avoid the inevitable snarking, to clarify, the Japanese people have my apology

k&r of your OP though also.
The horror indeed.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8892160

[tritsofme]

33. Not mine. President Truman's decision likely saved the lives of at least a million American GIs

He made the right choice to end a war we did not start

I applaud his courage a thousand times over.

[closeupready]

36. I do not share your sentiment here.

They started it. They behaved abominably and monstrously. We gave them many opportunities to surrender, and they chose not to.

It's ancient history now, and hopefully, we can all work together to destroy all nuke arsenals entirely, and rid the world of these dangerous weapons.

Kicked but unrecced.

[H2O Man]

37. recommended

Lots of strangeness on this thread.

[Obamanaut]

38. That was you? I was not quite three, I cannot take the blame. nt

[PM Martin]

39. Recall the Bataan Death March?

Recall that the Imperial (cockroaches) Japanese flew planes into their opponents. Recall Japan's bombing of Pearl Harbor, including civilian targets and hospitals?

The other option, which would have been near impossible would have been to take out Hirohito and his family.

I care for nothing about, nor have any respect for Pre-1945 Japan.

[The Magistrate]

40. Bataan, Sir: A Man's Outrage Over things He Cannot Spell Rings Hollow

Also, not a good idea to refer to human beings as 'cockroaches'....

[ShamelessHussy]

42. It was very hard coming to terms with the fact that TPTB nuked a defeated nation

well, i don't think you can actually come to terms with that, but it reminds me of one of my favorite quotes...

Hiroshima

is the second most horrid word in the american lexicon, succeeded only by

Nagasaki

.




K&R for PEACE

[proteus_lives]

45. Still spreading that old lie, huh?

Japan was not a defeated nation.

[ShamelessHussy]

49. so you think japan was not defeated militarily by summer 45?

sure, you are entitled to your opinion, but with not only the clarity of hindsight but also the quotes from our military leaders at that time, I think most would say doesn't hold water.

but i certainly would never call it a 'lie'

:hi:

[proteus_lives]

53. Preparing for the defense of their homland....

Getting as many troops to the home islands as they could.

Preparing thousands of suicide planes and boats.

Refusing to surrender until after two atomic bombs.

No Japan had lost the war by summer '45 but they weren't defeated until they surrendered.

Revisionist history doesn't help anybody.

[ShamelessHussy]

54. strong defense they put up trying to shot down those two planes that nuked them, eh?

how many fighter escorts did we sacrifice to get them to their targets and back, and how many of theirs did we knock down again?

:shrug:

[proteus_lives]

56. B-29s flew very high for a reason.

So Japanese suicide planes and AAA couldn't reach them.

We didn't lose anyone over Hiroshima because it was a well-planned and well-executed mission.

Your deflection has failed. Please try again.

[taterguy]

60. Lots of B-29 raids were flown under 10,000 feet

Yes, the atomic bomb was dropped at a high altitude, mostly to get away from the blast.

Japan had no virtually military power by the time we dropped the bomb.

[proteus_lives]

69. "Japan had no virtually military power by the time we dropped the bomb."

That's completely incorrect.

The still had ships in the water, armies in the field and defenses at home.

[neverforget]

75. "Virtually no military power by the time we dropped the bomb."

I don't know where you get your info, but the Japanese were planning to defend the Home Islands yard by yard.

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/giangrec.htm

On 29 July 1945, there came a stunning change to an earlier report on enemy strength on Kyushu. This update set alarm bells ringing in MacArthur's headquarters as well as Washington because it stated bluntly that the Japanese were rapidly reinforcing southern Kyushu and had increased troop strength from 80,000 to 206,000 men, quote: "with no end in sight." Finally, it warned that Japanese efforts were, quote: "changing the tactical and strategic situation sharply." While the breathless "no end in sight" claim turned out to be somewhat overstated, the confirmed figures were ominous enough for Marshall to ponder scraping the Kyushu operation altogether even though MacArthur maintained that it was still the best option available.

[oneshooter]

65. By this time the Japanese were used to 2 plane photo recon missions

They would not send fighters after them, instead using their surviving aircraft and fuel against the bombing raids that would come later.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[edbermac]

62. Was Germany a defeated military in spring 1945?

How far away were Allied troops from Hitler's bunker in Berlin? A few hundred yards? And Germany still hadn't surrendered until Hitler killed himself.

Just my two cents.

[proteus_lives]

44. Did you get an apology for Nanjing?

Or Unit 731?

The Bataan Death March?

Executing POWS?

Korean/Chinese slave laborers?

For the millions upon millions they slaughtered in Asia?

I would never apologize for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They were legitimate targets in a declared war that the Japanese started.

[uppityperson]

48. Japanese ambassador to the U.S. Ichiro Fujisaki apologized to the assembled survivors for the Japane

"On May 30, 2009, at the 64th and final reunion of Bataan Death March survivors in San Antonio, Texas, Japanese ambassador to the U.S. Ichiro Fujisaki apologized to the assembled survivors for the Japanese treatment of Allied prisoners of war, on behalf of the Japanese government.<4>"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8892690&mesg_id=8892854

[joshcryer]

73. Good for them, meanwhile Japanese textbooks don't tell the story of all of the other atrocities.

American text books talk about the atomic bombings at length.

[Confusious]

90. Means nothing if they don't teach that to their kids.

Which they don't. It's still that they were trying to 'help' the Chinese, etc.

[Mudoria]

52. +1

[Roon]

50. My Grandfather was in Berlin when it was liberated...

We defeated Germany but we were still at war with Japan. He tells me there was a lot of horse shoe tossing and badminton games going on while they waited word if they were going to head to Japan.

We nuked Japan, Japan surrendered,and my Grandfather and his buddies got to come home.

My Grandfather was anti-aircraft and never had to deal with hand-to-hand combat,but still,going to Japan would have been one hairy ride.

So the only thing I will say positive about nuking the Japanese is that it brought my Grandfather home safely.

[Throd]

51. Too bad it had to happen, but it had to happen. No guilt here.

[WolverineDG]

57. The women & children starved to death in Japanese internment camps

feel your pain.

:eyes:

dg

[BlueCheese]

58. I appreciate your sentiment.

But I respectfully disagree. The war was not going to end without a lot more violence. A land attack on the Japanese home islands would have taken another year and the lives of tens of thousands of American soldiers. The Japanese military literally fought to the death on island after island. Some Japanese soldiers held on for decades, unaware that peace had been made. Was dropping the bombs the right thing to do? That can be debated. But I think it was a reasonable decision at the time, and it was done to end the cruelest and bloodiest war in history--one started by Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany.

Also, modern Japan, for all of its great accomplishments and substantial virtues, really needs to acknowledge Japan's role and culpability in starting the war, and the many millions of people in Asia who died as a result. The revisionism and denial there must be addressed.

[Llewlladdwr]

59. Why?

This is a serious inquiry. Why in the world are you apologizing and on what moral authority? I'm fairly certain that you were not a member of either aircrew, nor did you have anything to do with the decision to drop the bomb(if I'm wrong please let me know). Since this was an action that most likely occured before you were even born what is the basis for your apology?

[Zhade]

61. Seconded. Killing innocents for their government's actions is what the Nazis did.

It will forever be a black mark on this country.

And no, it didn't have to happen.

[BreweryYardRat]

63. Japan has my apologies that we didn't hit the military bases outside of those cities.

Really wish those bombs had been delivered there instead of over the cities proper.

Given the war crimes/genocide the Japanese military systematically committed, I doubt anyone would have mourned for those assholes.

Edit: Someone else posted something I hadn't heard before. "The Japanese manufacturing base was dispersed throughout their cities in civilian homes from one end to another. Instead of large factories producing ammunition, you literally had families of all descriptions making bullets in their dining rooms."

There may have been reason to target the cities. However, targeting the military bases might have worked just as well.

[Dreamer Tatum]

66. Their brainwashing leadership caused Hiroshima and Nagasaki

so tough fucking goddamn shit. Acquire a reputation for savage fighting, you get the worst your enemy can muster.

[lynne]

67. Sorry they refused to surrender and gave us no choice but to do it -

- and sorry that people had to die but not sorry it was done. It ultimately saved lives as compared to estimated deaths for the planned Invasion of Japan.

The bomb allowed my father to come home where he married my mother and later began our family. No apologies from me.

[sylveste]

68. my friend's dad

was on the arizona, fuck'em. i hope it burned like hell when those fuckers went off.

[NNN0LHI]

83. My father was part of the invasion force on Iwo Jima and Okinawa and ...

... then part of the mainland occupation force.

He was a Navy flagman.

He didn't think we needed to bomb them either.

He said by the time they got to the Japanese mainland all that was left was old men, women and little kids.

Don

[oldlib]

70. I don't apologize.

I was 12 years old when WW2 ended and it was such a relief for it to be over. Truman did the right thing, as the Japanese were not about to surrender.

[Ricochet21]

76. I agree

I agree

[LibDemAlways]

79. Among those who apparently agreed that this was a heinous and

unnecessary act were several people you've probably heard of. Take a look.

http://www.doug-long.com/quotes.htm

[Statistical]

84. Japan arrogance resulted in the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

Nothing more.

Good thing they finally agreed to the original surrender terms (the terms they could have agreed to at any time prior to either the first or second atomic bomb) when they did.

The most likely 3rd atomic target was Tokyo and would have happened within 3 weeks. The 4th target was Kyoto and that bomb would have been ready in 2 months.
After that they was a lull in ability to bomb further targets (although conventional bombing runs would have killed millions more). By the early spring of 1946 the US would have another dozen atomic devices.

Japan agreed to the original surrender terms. They could have done so AT ANY TIME.

Prior to Hiroshima - 0 cities bombed with nuclear weapons
Prior to Nagasaki - 1 city bombed with nuclear weapons
Prior to Tokyo - 2 cities bombed with nuclear weapons
Prior to Kyoto - 3 cities bombed with nuclear weapons
After Kyoto - 4 (5, 6, a dozen) cities bombed with nuclear weapons.

The choice was theirs to make. Ultimately they surrendered after 2 cities. We can wish they had accepted reason and logic prior to that but they didn't.

[ProgressiveMajority]

85. We will eventually apologize! Simple logic dictates it...

All that matters it that there will be fewer and fewer people alive who believe their life was saved by the use of the bombs. When eventually all the WW2 veterans die, and their children die, than the US will apologize for the bombing. At that point, we really don't have much to gain by defending them since admitting fault (rightly or wrongly) costs nothing and represents a sort of moral gain. The fact that we as Americans are less and less willing to defend the bombings has little or nothing to do with morality or ethics, it's a cynical self interested calculation. When that apology comes, it won't be because we've advanced morally or ethically (though maybe we will have a bit), it will be because we don't really care about the reputation of some long dead president.

If you're educated about the issue, then you realize it was not an issue of being willing to accept the Emperor's continued role. The Potsdam declaration didn't address that issue at all - it was never directly demanded. Indeed the Japanese had already thought the Potsdam dec. allowed for some continued role of the emperor. So the canard of "The Japanese just wanted to keep the emperor and we eventually acceded" is totally false.

But to be honest, the question here is not whether the bombing saved lives or whether the Japanese were about to surrender a few days later. It's the question of having used the atomic bombs, period. The Allies could have firebombed ten times as many people to death and there would be less controversy about it today. Perhaps without the bombing the military hardliners would have pulled off the coup, and Japan would be invaded with millions dead then divided between Soviet and American occupation zones. But we don't see that reality, so it doesn't matter. People use those points to defend their position, but IMHO the root of one's opinion comes from one's proclivity to either agree or disagree with Truman and his colleagues.

[MajorChode]

88. Nicholas Kristof wrote a great op-ed on the subject

http://www.firstpulseprojects.net/bombproject/NKristoff.html

[Confusious]

89. Try grandkids

It was my Grandfather and great uncle in the war.

Why not apologize for the firebombings, or or that matter the entire war? 'we're sorry we were in your way'

[Catherina]

86. "Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours" n/t

[Hannah Bell]

91. americans are profoundly hypocritical about the bombing of civilians.

they do it all over the world, on a massive scale.

but when they once get a taste of their own medicine -- 9/11 -- oh, the humanity. oh, the tragedy. oh, the innocent victims. oh, the sacred ground. oh, the terrible criminals who did this.

yet it didn't make them rethink things - it just gave them an excuse to kill more.

[old mark]

94. Never. nt