K&R to call on Abe Foxman to resign as ADL chair, & on ADL to go back to opposing ALL prejudice

[Ken Burch]

The ADL used to be against ALL forms of discrimination.

At some point it made the ridiculous decision that antisemitism was the only form of bigotry that mattered.

It's ridiculous opposition to the Islamic Community Center a mile away from(not AT)the WTC is a mockery of what the ADL used to stand for.

Abraham Foxman is the man who is responsible, more than anyone else, for ADL's decline into an anti-Muslim hate group.

He needs to go.

The ADL needs to repudiate his whole approach.

Then, and ONLY then, will that organization be once again worthy of its name.

[aquart]

1. In your opinion a request for consideration and taste equals hate.

To me that sounds like hysteria.

[Ken Burch]

2. It was not a request for consideration and taste

And Foxman's position was based on a series of lies:

1)That is was a mosque(it's an Community Center)

2)That it would be built at Ground Zero(it's a mile away)

3)That this was part of a (actually mythical) tradition of Muslims "building mosques at the sites of their victories"(its not a mosque and the people building it had nothing to do with Al Qaida).

His and ADL's position is also based on a series of unjust and untrue insinuations

1)The all Muslims worldwide are responsible for 9/11(in truth, only a handful of extremist wackjobs were involved and Muslims around the world condemned the attack

2)That the 9/11 attacks were intended specifically as an attack on Jews(they clearly weren't, most of the victims weren't Jewish, and Muslims who worked at the WTC died as innocent victims on that day).

3)The disgusting implication that the construction of anything Muslim anywhere near 9/11 was comparable to the proposal to build a Catholic convent at Auschwitz(which WOULD have been inappropriate, given Hitler's Catholic upbringing, the collusion of almost all German Catholics in the Third Reich, and Hitler's invocation of Christian antisemitic imagery in his rise to power). The Catholic Church and other Christian denominations, through their repeated invocation(until Vatican II in Catholicism's case)of lies about the Crucifixion and other slanders makes those faith traditions complicit in the Holocaust. There was no comparable connection between Islam as a faith tradition(in fact, as several faith traditions, which are sometimes in violent conflict with each other)and 9/11.

So Foxman's position is a hate position. He made no proposal to meet with the group proposing the center to try to work out a compromise. He made no distinction between Muslims and Al-Qaida, and he even encouraged the comparision of Muslims with Nazis.

I assume you'll join me in denoucing ANY implication that the world's Muslim population was collectively responsible for 9/11.

[jtuck004]

3. I will. Anytime. Anywhere. n/t

[Ken Burch]

5. Thank you for that.

It's good that some people still remember that the fight against prejudice MUST be universalist.

[Violet_Crumble]

10. Well said, Ken...

I hope Aquart returns and reads what you explained to her, as she must not be aware of the nastiness of Abe Foxman or what he said on behalf of the ADL. What he said was no 'call for consideration and taste' but it is condoning bigotry and intolerance against one specific group of people. That's what the ADL was supposed to be opposed to, and seeing as how Abe labels just about any criticism of Israel as bigotry against Jews, it's very very obvious that for him the bar is far higher when it comes to deciding what is and isn't bigotry against Muslims than it is when it comes to Jews...

[Ken Burch]

11. Not holding my breath for Aquart's return to this thread.

Her specialty is drive-by posting.

[oberliner]

14. Your post contains some untrue accusations

1. The ADL statement did not once use the word "mosque" in describing the proposed building (it referred to it as an Islamic Center)

2. The ADL satement did not claim that it was being built "at Ground Zero" (merely, near Ground Zero - the site is 1/10th of a mile away - not a mile away as you claim)

3. No idea where in the ADL statement anything like this claim was referenced.

I think one can disagree with the ADL on the position they took on this (as I do) without resorting to misrepresenting that position.

As Foxman himself has recently said, the ADL was not opposed to the building of the center and was only recommending (wrongly, in my opinion) that an alternate location be found. Now that the Landmark Preservation Committee has made its decision, the ADL has moved on.

Sadly, most New Yorkers, and an even higher percentage of Americans generally, are opposed to the building of this center at this location. The fact that 60 percent of New Yorkers are taking what you have deemed a "hate position" on this subject illustrates how important it is for respected civil rights groups to have come out in support of building the center.

It is very unfortunate that Foxman and the ADL are on the wrong side of this, and I do think the statement has caused serious harm to the organization.

[Ken Burch]

15. If I had the distance wrong, I stand corrected

Still, it is NOT in the immediate vicinity of Ground Zero, and its construction was in no way a slight on the dead of 9/11.

And, to my knowledge, Foxman NEVER called on those who did refer to the center as a "Mosque" or implied that those who wanted to build it were celebrating the 9/11 attacks to retract their hateful lies.

[oberliner]

17. Pretty much every news outlet has called it a mosque

Including, for example, Al Jazeera:

'Ground Zero' mosque approved

US authorities have approved the building of an Islamic culture centre and mosque in New York City, despite tensions over it being located near the site of the September 11 attacks in 2001.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2010/08/20108323348309300.html

AP, Reuters, CNN, NY Times, and a multitude of other sources have also used the term mosque in reference to the building.

I think it actually speaks well of the ADL that in their statement they were careful not to fall into the same trap as these others and properly labeled the building an Islamic community center.

[ThomCat]

19. That sums it up as clearly as it gets.

Foxman's position wasn't suitable for anything outside of faux noise.

[readmoreoften]

9. Taste? The mosque would be surrounded by strip clubs and check cashing places.

How completely gross of you.

[ThomCat]

18. A "request for consideration and taste?"

Is that what you call it when you demand that people agree with your opinion these days to hate the same people you hate? :eyes:

[Odin2005]

4. The ADL is dengenerating into just another "if you criticize Israel you are a bigot" group.

[EFerrari]

6. Zakaria has returned his Humphrey award.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4494970

You get to know people and organizations not in the good times but in difficult times. I'd have to say Foxman has failed in his mission as leader of the ADL. They can do better.

/oops

[Ken Burch]

7. Zakaria did the right thing.

n/t.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

8. For months, I have been asking why the ADL hasn't spoken out against the tea party hatred,

the disgusting anti-Semitic and racist Holocaust imagery exploited for political purposes? Where has the ADL been? Why haven't they displayed outrage at the tea party hate-filled rhetoric and displays of horrific Nazi symbolism. They kept their mouths shut all this time...UNTIL...

[oberliner]

16. ADL has issued a report about displays of hate at Tea Party events

Anti-Government Anger and Conspiracy Theories - ADL's widely publicized report, Rage Grows in America: Anti-Government Conspiracies, examined the groups and individuals behind a surge in anti-government anger. Focusing on the proliferation of conspiracy theories, the growing militia movement and some displays of hate at Tea Party events, the report considered the risks posed not only by extremists, but also by mainstream figures who stoke anti-government anger and increase the potential for violence.

http://www.adl.org/special_reports/rage-grows-in-America/

Rage Grows in America: Anti‑Government Conspiracies
The Tea Parties

Excerpt:

During the April 15 protests, signs depicting President Obama as Hitler began to appear as some protesters equated his bailout plan with socialism or Nazism. Some speakers claimed that Obama was intent on taking away civil liberties by destroying the Constitution or the American way of life. According to one report on a rally in Beacon, South Carolina, various speakers talked about “taking back the nation.” A local Republican Party chairwoman at the event described participants as “people standing up for their Constitution…They’re ready to fight for their country. Socialism is being pushed and we don’t want any part of it.” At a rally in Madison, Wisconsin, one woman reportedly even had a sign comparing President Obama to the anti-Christ.

Also:

In some cases, members of organized groups sought to recruit new members at the Tea Parties. Members of The Vinlanders Social Club, a hardcore racist skinhead group primarily based in the Midwest, reportedly attended a Tea Party in Indianapolis, Indiana. Additionally, members of the white supremacist League of American Patriots claimed to have distributed hundreds of fliers at Tea Parties in New Jersey and New York. Mostly, however, individuals acted alone and reported their alleged progress on Stormfront, the most popular white supremacist Internet forum.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

21. As I responded to you in the other thread, reports mean nothing. Where's the leadership

*vocally* standing up to condemn the tea party racists and anti-Semites? They're standing shoulder to shoulder with the tea party on this issue and speaking out forcibly against the mosque. Where have they been on the tea party rhetoric and other disgusting displays of hate?

A report won't do! Few people read and respond to reports.

[DLnyc]

12. Sure looks like someone pressured the ADL into coming out against the

building. Why? Probably they want to keep this highly emotional, divisive issue on the front burner going into the midterms. As usual, the Rethugnican strategy is to get people yelling at each other as much as possible, in the hopes that that will improve their election chances. Unfortunately, it has worked very well over and over. Think Willie Horton, 911, gay marriage, abortion, all issues that arouse intensely angry violent emotions on both sides.

We get played like fiddles, over and over.

[oberliner]

13. What is your source for the claim that the site is "a mile away" from Ground Zero?

There is an article from the Huffington Post that says the distance between the two locations is approximately 1/10th of a mile. They even have video of someone walking from one site to the other in about two minutes.

Article excerpt:

If you look up the walking directions you'll notice that it takes a couple of minutes to walk the distance (approximately a tenth of a mile) between the two spots. Pretty much two minutes exactly when I took the trip with a shaky video camera.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-sledge/just-how-far-is-the-groun_b_660585.html

[Loudmxr]

20. I agree.

I love the ADL. They are a great resource. Abe needs to go. Ever since he denied the Armenian genocide because "genocide" wasn't a word yet. HOOOBOY

Dude I know when the word was coined. It was after WWII.

He needs go and fast.