TIME: The Moderate Imam Behind the 'Ground Zero Mosque'

[AlabamaLibrul]

The last legal hurdle to the proposed Islamic center near the site of the World Trade Center has been removed, but ignorance, bigotry and politics are more formidable obstacles. The unanimous vote Tuesday, Aug. 3, by the New York City Landmarks Preservation Commission means the building that currently occupies 45-47 Park Place can be torn down, clearing the way for Park51, a project known to its critics as the "Ground Zero Mosque." Criticism spans the gamut, from the ill-informed anguish of those who mistakenly view Islam as the malevolent force that brought down the towers to the ill-considered opportunism of right-wing politicians who see Islam as an easy target. (emphasis added)

(Ironically, Islam's roots in New York City are in the area around the site of the World Trade Center, and they predate the Twin Towers: in the late 19th century, a portion of lower Manhattan was known as Little Syria and was inhabited by Arab immigrants — Muslims and Christians — from the Ottoman Empire.)

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2008432,00.html?loomia_si=t0:a16:g2:r1:c0.0451436:b36340674&xid=Loomia#ixzz0vxUgd83t

[tammywammy]

1. k&r

[MajorChode]

2. Mosque at Ground Zero: That's Bullshit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPPxBrtrH1c

[AlabamaLibrul]

3. Indeed, the first paragraph of the article says as much. n/t

[Odin2005]

4. It's NOT a fucking mosque and it's NOT at Ground Zero.

I'm fucking SICK of the MSM pushing these LIES! :grr:

[Cal33]

5. I wonder who started those lies and for what purpose.

[Posteritatis]

6. I first heard it a few months back on Fox, for obvious terrorist-FUD purposes. (nt)

[MajorChode]

7. To suggest that it's a Muslim YMCA is no more honest

The purpose of the building may not be exclusively for a mosque, but there most certainly is a mosque involved. It's like saying St. John's isn't a cathedral because it has a gift shop. The so-called "prayer room" is designed for 2,000 people. So this isn't a makeshift walk in closet with a few rugs thrown down so people can prostrate themselves to pray, it's the central feature of the building. So yes, there might be a lot of other things going on there, which is true for most any house of worship.

If you want to say the whole issue has been politicized, propagandized, and lied about by the wingnuts to raise money for their bigoted causes, I'm right there with you. But suggesting there isn't a mosque involved here doesn't ring true either. It only provides ammunition for the wingnuts to show that hidden agendas are involved. It's better to tell them that yes, there will be a mosque in the building and if they don't like it they can stick their bigotry straight up their ass and spin on it.

[ThomCat]

9. To suggest that because it has a prayer center in it, it is a mosque

shows some lack of insight and sensitivity.

A community center would be a primary place where people would go for access to information about public services in a native language, for advice from others about housing issues, finding professionals who are friendly to their community, probably offers ways for singles to meet, has recreational activities, etc., etc.

A hell of a lot happens in the cultural community centers dotting NYC. They make life possible for the immigrant community that lives here.

Yes, prayers would happen here too. For anyone observant, they would happen repeatedly throughout the day. So what? Do you think that it doesn't make a lot of practical sense to put a prayer center inside the Muslim community center for exactly that reason? Do you really think that including a prayer center somehow invalidates every other service that a Muslim community center offers?

And even if it was a mosque, so what? There are churches in the area. If churches can stand in any neighborhood then any other religious organization an put up their buildings in the same neighborhood without restrictions. The first amendment is a real pain in the ass that way. :eyes:

[MajorChode]

11. Give me a break

A "prayer center" that has a capacity of 2,000?

Calling that a mosque (which is exactly what it is) shows "some lack of insight and sensitivity"?

You're shitting me, right?

Practically every media outlet on the left and the right says it has a mosque. The wiki entry says it has a mosque. Religious leaders of many different faiths who support it says it has a mosque. The people who are building it say it has a mosque.

But if I say it has a mosque I am showing "some lack of insight and sensitivity".

Then you go on to say if it was a mosque, "so what" which is exactly what I said.

:crazy:

[ThomCat]

12. You have obviously never been in a community center.

Repeatedly insisting that it is a mosque won't make it so.

Comparing everything that a community center does to just the gift shop in a cathedral demeans every vital and necessary service that a community center provides. Yes, that is showing a lack of insight and a lack of sensitivity.

If you have no idea what the hell you are talking about you really shouldn't make big pronouncements.

Walk through a few of these community centers. See how busy they are, and check out everything they do for people, and all the services that can be found in them. Check out all the tiny community groups and organizations that rent space and operate out of rooms in these community centers, and wouldn't exist if not for them. See how secular community centers are.

Then come back here and announce with all of your certainty that they're lying when they call it a community center, and it's really just a mosque, because you say so. :eyes:


The fact that a community center has a space big enough for 2000 people to pray isn't a sign that it's secretly a mosque, unless you have seen some conspiracy information that nobody else has access to. Almost any catering hall with 2 or more halls would be at least the same size. Many community center that can afford open square footage have a large programming/activity/open hall area that large. It is not uncommon or unusual. Letting it be used for prayer in a Muslim community center is not something that should be unexpected, unusual, or any big deal. So I still don't see what it is you are complaining about. What is your objection?

I'm sure the space is going to be used for a whole lot of other activities too. Are you going to object to every other activity they have in that space? Or is it only Muslims praying that you have a problem with?

[MajorChode]

14. You have obviously never learned to read AND comprehend

I never called it a mosque. I said the plans included a mosque, which is what pretty much everyone else north of a room temperature IQ is also saying, including those who are building said community center. YMMV.

Were it not for your presumptuous jackassery, you might have noticed such things before you made a complete fool of yourself.

Cheers!

[ThomCat]

15. I read just fine.

I read you comparing it to a cathedral with a gift shop.

"Everyone else north of a room temperature IQ" "Presumptuous Jackassery" :eyes: Nice personal attacks. When you have nothing of any intelligence to say, go for the personal attacks.

That's a clear sign that even you recognize that you have failed.

Have a nice night. :P

[MajorChode]

16. Obviously not

You haven't had a clue what I was posting about and still you continued to shoot off your mouth even after I had set you straight. Rather than come to terms with the possibility that you might be completely full of shit, you kept on in some lame attempt to save face when you just keep getting deeper and deeper. "Presumptuous Jackassery" was a perfect description of your post, not of you. It was no more of a personal attack than your post before. Any disturbance of your sensitive nature was well deserved. Most people learned the simple concept, 'don't dish it out if you can't take it' in primary school. YMMV. If you think it was a personal attack, alert on the post. Pissing and moaning about it just makes you look like a whiner.

Even though the entertainment value of setting someone like you straight has been enormous, now you're starting to become a serious bore so I'm done here. I'm sure you'll go for the last word as I have no doubt such things are vitally important to you, but I won't read it. Enjoy hearing the noise of your own keyboard.

Cheers!

[ThomCat]

19. You haven't

dished out anything that made a damned bit of sense, much less anything I can't take.

Go back to your delusions of superiority.

[BrklynLiberal]

8. There are many of us in NYC who support this center...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8898508

[deaniac21]

10. I don't understand why people keep attacking the religion of

peace.

[ThomCat]

13. No religion, taken on a large enough scale, is a religion of peace.

But taken on a small enough scale, among peaceful people, every religion is also a religion of peace. Every religion contains believers who want peace, and want to coexist peacefully.

It's always the people, not the religion, that creates violence or peace. Every religion has the possibility for both.

personally, I think we'd all be much better off if there were were a whole lot more atheists. But that's just me. :shrug:

[JCMach1]

18. I like my peace a little more peaceful...

that's why I don't practice religion...

[NNN0LHI]

20. Do you attack the entire Catholic Church and all its members for what Timothy McVeigh did?

[JCMach1]

17. How about if they agree to never take money from the Saudis...

I could get behind it if they promise that!