Narcissistic Men Typically Direct Their Rage at Straight Women

[cynatnite]

snip:
And new research suggests the anger, hostility and short fuse that accompany a man's narcissism tend to be directed toward straight women.

snip:
Men who scored the highest on the narcissism test were more likely to view women as conniving gold diggers, as teases who tempt men with sex and don't deliver, or as seductresses with plans to trick men and "get them under their thumb," Keiller said.

snip:
About the only group that escaped narcissistic men's anger were lesbians, possibly because straight men tend to eroticize them, Keiller said.

snip:
"Narcissists don't have a problem with everyone, or with people that are different. They have a problem with people who may reject them," Twenge said. "They have a problem with heterosexual women, because those are the people who might see through them, reject them and not give them the attention and adulation they feel they deserve."

snip:
"They can be charming, self-promoting and even in the face of evidence they are not great, they still think they're great," Twenge said. "But as they age, they are also more likely to fail at school, work and relationships. It's tough to be a middle-aged narcissist."

Just ask actor Mel Gibson, who's made headlines recently with aggressive verbal outbursts directed at women. According to Keiller, it's impossible to know if he's a narcissist without a full exam, but his sexist comments toward a female police officer and his latest reported tirades toward ex-partner Oksana Grigorieva would seem to indicate he fits the bill.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20100807/hl_hsn/narcissisticmentypicallydirecttheirrageatstraightwomen

[Xipe Totec]

1. Not true; I deal with rejection quite well...

[Hello_Kitty]

2. Uh, well, there's some other kind of angry man that directs rage at lesbians

As evidenced by assaults on lesbians committed by men.

[demigoddess]

3. men direct their rage at women!

I am so surprised! NOT!

[demigoddess]

4. men direct their rage at women!

I am so surprised! NOT!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

5. Yes, they tend to be the ones who say that "women" always reject "nice guys"

It couldn't possibly be THEIR fault that they can't keep a relationship going, time after time.

[Hello_Kitty]

7. George Sodini, the PA gym shooter

Thought he deserved a hot 22 year old.

[Radical Activist]

8. Wow.

Ok, I'm sure narcissistic men have used that line but can't someone be bitter, lonely and insecure without being a narcissist? :freak:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

15. It's the attitude--if they don't even consider the possibility that

there's something wrong with THEM--if they lay all the blame on "women" (ALL women, not just the ones who rejected them) then I suspect narcissism.

Whenever I've encountered such a claim in the Lounge or elsewhere, I've always challenged those guys to ask a platonic female friend for advice about what they're doing wrong.

I wonder if any of them have actually done it. I wonder if they think instead, "I'm fine the way I am. It's those women who don't appreciate me."

There are several possibilities, any one of which might be true

1. They're going after the wrong women (a real common problem) and ignoring the ones who might actually like them

2. They come on too strong at the beginning and act as if someone they just met is the love of their life. This is intimidating, especially if the woman in question has had experiences with a stalker.

3. They don't come across at all. They never make a move, thinking that they have to be super clever like in the movies or not bother at all.

4. They are boring. By "boring" I don't mean "not fucked up." By boring I mean no sense of humor, knows nothing but work and sports, does nothing but work and watch TV (as if women are going to magically appear in his living room), thinks he's a good catch because he has a job and a car (these days most women have jobs and cars).

5. They have poor personal hygiene, are crude in the wrong environments, or are otherwise embarrassing to be around.

6. They believe everything equally clueless guys tell them about women.

[Radical Activist]

17. I can't argue with what you wrote.

I was merely jokingly pointing out that someone can have nice guy syndrome without being a narcissist. The two attitudes sometimes co-exist but not always.

The rest of what I think is in post 16.

[treestar]

37. Good points, when young I ran across 1 and 2 a lot

Maybe it was the times, but they refused to be friends first, and would be resentful you didn't want some physical relationship right away. Somebody or more than one wasted his chance at a relationship there.

[JonLP24]

44. I fit into #3 and #4

#3 not for the reason you listed, because I'm too much of a coward to ask. That and I'm nervous in general speaking to new people I'm trying to impress. As far as #4, I'm just boring but I do have a sense of humor. However I hardly leave the house to do anything "fun" mostly because "fun" costs money. I'll point out though I don't think I'm a good catch for those reasons and nor do I expect women to come to me(because I don't).

Not disagreeing. Just taking a poke at your list and see where I fit. :hi:

[skids]

9. I beg to differ...

I've known several very nice guys who were not terribly narcissistic --
they had their faults, mind you, but most of them were humble enough --
who were left for total pricks and have developed this attitude.

I try not to generalize this behavior to all women because I know
several nice guys that are in stable relationships, too. Obviously
some women can actually pick a good man.

All I can ask is you not to assume that just because a guy makes
remarks like that doesn't make him a narcissist -- some of them are
just despondent after a bad relationship or three. They couldn't
figure out what all they did or didn't do, and then hear thirdhand
how their ex-girlfriends new relationship go badly exactly the way
anyone who knew the new boyfriend would have easily predicted. It's
a hard thing to endure, watching someone you care for make extremely
poor choices. It can be very exasperating, and sometimes that
is what you are hearing in these sorts of comments.

I agree there are plenty of the type of men you are thinking of
that have this attitude, as well. Also I agree the attitude is
a sweeping generalization. But don't label anyone who expresses
that opinion as a ass. Some are just very depressed.

[seabeyond]

10. societal conditioning. my 15 yr old son said this. nice guys dont get the girl

WHAT? i say. he has heard it often enough and is young enough, he doesnt get it and thinks it is true. or thought it was true. with the jerk males getting the pretty girls, he has evidence of it. BUT, when i talked it out with him, he had a totally different perspective. these guys are so confident, they are in the face with charm. where as guys like son are more shy and quiet and polite and respectful to the girl, he is not putting himself out there.

he has plenty of girls with crushes on him.

once we talked about it, and had it a little more in perspective and started putting himself out there, he saw it wasnt true.

the nice girls really like and appreciate the nice guys.

i agree with your post. i understand why the other poster said what she said, but i also understand why some nice guys think it too

we hear it so often in our society. books are written on it. movies made about it. and studies done to imply females (girls and women) dont like the nice guys, but want the bad boy. but then, you can see the flaws in the few studies i have seen.

[Warpy]

12. All girls have gone for the bad boy at least once

and if she got out of the relationship with her life, she learned to stay far, far away from him and others like him.

The nice guys might get a later start, but they finish with the prizes.

[seabeyond]

14. nice guys might get a later start, but they finish with the prizes.

i think so too.

also, now that you mention it, at 18 i had a bad boy. but it isnt the bad boy that the people are promoting today. how they describe the bad boy is he being mean, disrespectful, treat us bad. my bad boy treated me really really well.... when he was with me, lol. i never thought of him as a bad boy. he asked me to marry him and there wasnt a chance in hell.

gosh, i hadnt even thought about it that way. thanks warpy.

[create.peace]

20. that's what i tell my so, we met at 48 me, and 55 him.

and i fell for a nice guy (seemingly, mostly) right after the bad boy (def narcissistic, coupled with diagnosed paranoid) - i nearly had the decent person beat out of me and that 'nice guy' looked pretty good. turns out he is mostly nice, but has that passive aggressive thing.

now, i am with a real mensch, and i deserve every bit of his devotion, and he, mine.

an intriguing thread, though anecdotal, and all that.

[seabeyond]

21. hubby can do the passive aggressive. nothing passive about my aggressiveness, lol.

so whenever he does the passive, i do the aggressive, lmao.

then we both stop cause neither of us like to fight. generally a laugh

[Radical Activist]

16. Nice comment.

There are many men who, at some point in their life, have a "girls don't like nice guys" pity party. There are certainly some women who lend credibility to that complaint. Not allowing men to express normal human insecurities about that without labeling them with ugly names is another way of enforcing the sexist double standard that men shouldn't be emotional.

There are other men who use the line because they don't recognize their own mistakes, or who become so bitter and emotionally damaged over time that they become "nice guy" a-holes. Apparently Lydia has had bad experiences with one or more of those men.

It sounds like you gave your son great advice. I can't remember or even imagine having a conversation like that with my mom at that age. He's lucky.

I went through a period of complaining about the nice guy thing after several painful experiences. It took gaining a little more confidence and maturity to get beyond it. It takes some people a little longer to figure out what type of person is right for them and how to recognize subtle hints. But at the same time, I'm now old enough to date women in their mid-20's to 30's who would have looked past me in the bar during college and left with a better looking, smooth-talking narcissist. It got easier with age to be an average looking guy looking for a woman who wants to be treated as an equal.

A dammit I promised myself I was never going to comment on another "nice guy" thread since they always turn ugly. :dunce:

[seabeyond]

19. dammit I promised myself ...... lol lol,

i hadnt really payed attention or thought about this until reading threads on this board and then listening to my boys. i have always liked nice guys and always hung around with the nice guys. i dont mess around with people who are not nice. not my thing. cant respect me, i can hardly have any respect for you. and if i dont respect someone, why would i want to waste my time with them. makes no sense to me.

as far as repressing emotion. HUGE ass issue for males. and again, as a society, we condition. that same oldest has always talked and talked and talked to me. very self aware. and gotta express. but i watched him at 12 working really hard repressing those emotions to fit in with the boys at school. we talked about that, too. he had a need. he did it. and he is handling teenage years well. but he is AWARE why he did it and those emotions are still there, and in this home, he is allowed to express and feel.

so fingers are crossed that he is clever enough to know this is just a protective outside wall he puts up for the world and yet stays in touch with those emotions.

youngest embraces his emotions and drama.

and we all tease dad who truly had parents that whooped those emotions to the point he is clueless. husband is grateful our boys are not the same.

[Lorien]

30. she was describing those who CLAIM to be "nice guys"

not actual nice guys. There's a huge difference.

[Lorien]

28. We've even had a few of them here. Remember the self proclaimed "Nice guy"

who later proclaimed that he viewed all women as "a human sub-species" that he found "unworthy"of his attentions?

[Radical Activist]

32. No. Way.

Someone actually wrote that? WTF?

[pinboy3niner]

40. There seems to be a fine line between narcissism and misogyny

I don't understand it, except that they seem to overlap.

There are also guys who are so lacking in social skills that they might be mistaken for one or the other.

[chrisa]

54. The difference is the concept of entitlement mixed with misogyny.

A benign guy doesn't feel entitled to have every woman in the world instantly fall in love with him, and demand attention every second of the day. That's what a narcissist does. When they don't get the attention they feel they deserve, they get mad and violent.

A guy who is just shy realizes that there is a woman out there for him, and isn't forceful or bitter when he gets rejected.

[LostinVA]

50. Yes!!!

[chrisa]

34. I agree completely.

And they keep saying over and over again that they're nice guys, and they can't possibly see how women would reject them.

If somebody keeps calling themselves a "nice guy" over and over again when they hardly ever do anything nice, they might have a narcissism problem.

[LostinVA]

51. The guy who killed the women at the gym in PA last year was like this

How he was great and wonderful, but the bitches kept rejecting them. So, he went and shot a bunch of them, killing some.

[Radical Activist]

6. Thinking about their definition of narcissism.

"a condition marked by an inflated sense of self-importance and a profound lack of empathy for others."

Is there a name for men who have an inflated sense of self-importance but also strong empathy for others? I mean, other than Clintonism? :+

[MrScorpio]

11. They'd have a problem with me...

and my baseball bat.

[RandomThoughts]

13. I have been reviewing some older posts I had made.

And find some of the correlations to ideas like narcissism interesting. Note by posting about my older post in a thread like this, such a thing could be seen as narcissistic. :)

For an On topic comment, I don't think it is narcissism that leads to misogyny. Although that could be a component of narcissism, I think it would be a subset of something caused by many other things other then narcissism.

Back in my more satire days, and when I thought more in ideas of presentation of ideas, including when I used satire a bit more I used this as an avatar photo.

I always thought the irony a good thing.



It is said to be a photo about narcissism, but I see other things in it, although I don't think I understand how narcissist think, it is an interesting topic. Colbert is a great example of use of narcissism to communicate, it also converges in some way with satire but not sarcasm, since that has a tone that is different.

Look in the mirror, is that narcissism, or self inspection for learning? Also it has a few other things in it.


Although satire is really interesting, I don't think of shows like Colbert or Jon Stewart as using satire. There is a form of speaking used by shows like that many can think of as satire or sarcasm, that really seems to be something else, in the same way narcissism can be something else also. Thought much on those forms of communication.

Although I think there may be different types of satire, or I don't know the complete definition of the word satire.

I do not see those shows as satire or sarcasm, but about turning the volume up on what people are doing to so people can see it. Is that form satire also?


So when shows like that show use skits as examples that are more obvious in what people are doing, it is not really satire, it is about finding some truth in how someone acts, and turning the volume up on it by making it obvious, so people can see parts of things. One of the reason I respect both Colbert and Jon, even when I do not agree with everything they do, their methods of presentation seems to explain many things.



It should be noted, A news personality spoke about people arguing against themselves. That form is easy to create, it can be done by looking at positions that have changed over time, and then presenting them back to people. Although that assumes the same intents in every comment without the temporal context of the comment. It is one of the flaws in usage of some items.

For example, the pre primary raiding off English shores had a different set of objectives, and so a different presentation. As goals change with learning, you can see a shift in some thoughts and even directions. An easy way to explain it is a few metaphors. The idea of trying to get muzzle flashes from many places to get information back, then using that information to adjust targeting. However if you look at the probing fire alone, you can think of it as targeting when it is actually information gathering, and that can lead to interp errors by not knowing intent.

[FirstLight]

18. how does Nice guy syndrome = Narcissism...?

I can see the relation between narcissistic attitudes and my abusive ex husband... for sure. but he NEVER thought he was a nice guy in that way.

:shrug:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

24. It's the self-centeredness of it

"I'm a nice guy and these stupid women don't appreciate me when I'm going through all the right motions that work in the movies. It's all their fault."

That's the attitude I see coming from narcissists.

[Warren DeMontague]

22. "It's the best looking man in the world"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=940zccYFyOI

To give this dude credit, though, he doesn't seem angry.

[notesdev]

23. Obviously then

Kent State University has more money to spend than it needs if it is funding this kind of nonsense.

[ThomCat]

27. How it is nonsense?

Understanding how narcissism can influence people, if it can have some typical or common effects, and if it can reinforce harmful behaviors, definitely makes this a useful area for psychologists to study. I would EXPECT that researchers and grad students would be studying this somewhere.

Getting a better understanding of narcissism in men and how it influences behavior towards women is definitely a valid topic to study, and good thing to pursue. Especially if it helps us understand male violence towards women, and stereotypes of women. If it will also help us understand negative attitudes and behavior towards gay men as well (mentioned in passing, but not elaborated upon in the article) then there is even more that can come from further research.

This article was just a summary. Don't assume that this is all there is. Are you calling this nonsense because you expected to see more information in the article?

[notesdev]

36. I fail to see how this is a productive activity

It looks like just the latest in a wave of fashionable straight-male bashing. Straight males bad, everyone else victims of those terrible people.

If you can describe a specific scenario in which such a study can have a positive impact on society I'll withdraw my objection, but I just can't imagine one.

[ThomCat]

38. Your lack of imagination isn't my problem.

Understanding narcissism isn't enough for you? Understanding how narcissism can lead to violence against women isn't enough? :shrug:


"Straight male bashing?" :wtf:

It sounds like someone is very defensive and takes any challenge to sexism and any challenge to discrimination against women as a personal attack against men. That would be really sad and pathetic.

:eyes:

[lumberjack_jeff]

25. Straight women have a power over the narcissist that is unacceptable to him.

Being forced to love someone else at the expense of the love he has for himself is an irreconcilable conflict.

Straight narcissists are ambivalent about lesbians or other men because that conflict is nonexistent.

[seabeyond]

26. interesting, interesting. very insightful

that is excellent. hm....

didnt read the whole article, but i take it that wasnt a consideration in this "study"

thanks lumberjack.

[ThomCat]

29. Actually, they mentioned animosity towards gay men, but only in passing.

I'd love to see the research on that.

Assuming the narcissist is straight:
If you believe you are the greatest, then of course all those gay men are looking at you. Of course they are going to fall in love with you. Why wouldn't they?

But the narcissist would be in the contradictory position of wanting everyone to love him, but not wanting gay men to love him. Wanting attention, but not from gay men. So you have built in conflict.

It would be interesting to see how the research mapped out how narcissists interact with society's homophobic attitudes.

The article said conflict is absent Only with Lesbians, so that would mean there is conflict even with straight men too. It would just be less conflict than with straight women.

[Radical Activist]

31. That would explain

homophobic men that are so worried about being hit on by gay men. "I'm so hot and sexy I have to watch out for all the gay men hitting on me because they can't resist." I always thought men with that attitude were jerks but it sounds narcissistic now that I think about it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

35. I strongly believe that those who tend to be most homophobic...

actually have some repressed bisexual tendencies, and the worst of those are narcissists.

Most everyone has an inflated sense of their own attractiveness. When I try to analyze my own reactions, any discomfort I've had among gay men has been that unrealistic self-appraisal combined with my (real world) tendency to want to avoid hurting anyone's feelings.

I get along well with gay men once they point out that I'm a doofus. :rofl:

[Triana]

33. Defines my ex to a T.

Not surprisingly.

[Cetacea]

39. "My mom, the Narcissist"

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/262725/my_mom_the_narcissist_the_ramifications.html

[Bluebear]

41. snip: paging Mel Gibson

[howard112211]

42. Yup, its always the man's fault.

If you get into a relationship with a woman who is a complete piece of shit, and who cheats on you and leaves you for a man with more money, and explains it with unmistakable comments like "yes I know we love each other, but love is not everything, prospects are important too and I have to think about my future" and doesn't mind maintaining an affair with you while setting up her marriage with the guy with cash, then its probably because you were a self-centered narcissist who hates women :eyes: And if you ever wonder whether she has ever thought about you anymore, that proves without a shadow of a doubt that you are self-centered...

[Regret My New Name]

43. It does go both ways, but this study was about men... right?

Although, I do wonder how the story about study on the flip-side would go over. Anyway, I for one prefer the mean women like you mention. I can't seem to get into normal nice girls. So I actively seek those ones with screwy personalities. Most likely because they go well with my screwed up personality. hah! I wonder what the writer of the article would make of me.

[chrisa]

45. That's not what the article is talking about.

If somebody leaves you because they think somebody else is 'better,' fine. That's their choice ultimately. However, this article is about narcissistic men who think all women out there are gold diggers, and never really love them. As a result, they are misogynistic in their ways, and treat women poorly.

[BlueIris]

48. Nice. This comment says a lot about you. nt

[howard112211]

52. And what exactly? I'd be very interested to hear.

[roscoeroscoe]

46. here's the definition:

In order for a person to be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) they must meet five or more of the following symptoms:

•Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
•Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
•Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
•Requires excessive admiration
•Has a very strong sense of entitlement, e.g., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
•Is exploitative of others, e.g., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
•Lacks empathy, e.g., is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
•Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
•Regularly shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

so even if a guy doesn't display any of these symptoms of NPD... the whole discussion starts from this point of view? and people wonder why guys get defensive!

between my wife and i there are real triggers, buttons that can be pushed. she pushes them. then hides behind tears and why are you acting so defensive?! kind of talk. it's a pattern of fighting that is very hard to break out of. believe me, i've undertaken counseling, weekend retreats, etc.

the most helpful point of view on marraige struggles is the book 'how to improve your marraige without talking about it,' by love & stosney. the basic concerns are fear (for women) and shame (for men). the two feed into each other in a feedback loop. it's really helped me to be more compassionate and understanding when seemingly out of line or insulting issues come up. highly recommended!

[seabeyond]

47. no, i am not getting what you are saying. i am interested in what you are saying

but i dont understand why guys get defensive.

IF they dont show any of the npd issues, then why would they associate themselves with what is being said about these mens behavior to women?

[BlueIris]

49. Narcissism is such a cancer on this society.

Worse than drug/alcohol abuse and obesity combined.

[Odin2005]

53. This describes a neighbor of mine perfectly.