Fox on Sex: The New Foreplay? It's 'Choreplay'

[underpants]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,597407,00.html

The concept of “choreplay”— that women are more likely to want to have sex when their male partner helps out around the house — is a hot topic in research circles. One recent study from the University of Western Ontario found that wives are happier when their husbands pitch in with housework. Another report from researchers at the University of Illinois at Chicago even suggests men who help clean, take care of their kids, and do other domestic chores may see the benefits of their labor pay off in the bedroom.

When you think about it, these “mop-and-glow” findings make a lot of sense. Researchers in the Netherlands have found that the key to getting a woman turned on and to the heights of orgasmic bliss is a deep sense of relaxation and a lack of anxiety. They scanned the brains of 13 women and 11 men while they were manually stimulated to orgasm by their partners. The scans showed that, for women, the parts of the brain responsible for processing fear, anxiety and emotion slowed down the more aroused they became, producing a trancelike state at orgasm. Men showed far less change in these areas of the brain.


Of course, it’s tough for a woman to chill out when she comes home from one job, only to be burdened by a “second shift” of cleaning, cooking, and chaos. In that scenario, sex is just one more task on her to-do list. The goal: To move sex to the top of that list by helping her cross off some of the less scintillating items. Men aren’t mind readers, but most of us are aware enough to notice when the sink is full of dirty dishes or the garbage is overflowing. Remember, once guys start carrying their weight around the house, they’re apt to find that women have more energy inside the bedroom. There’s no motivation like sex!

[cliffordu]

1. Didn't work in my recently deceased nuptial bliss....

Sometimes no means never again, sucker.

Of course, YMMV....

[Whoa_Nelly]

2. A more inclined to view chores as shared responsibility

The "choreplay" is too akin to the "Men Are from Mars, Woman Are From Venus" bullshit objectifying a woman and placing her in a certain tacitly accepted role.

If my SO were to do some chores around the home simply based on "helping out", I would be pissed that those particular chores selected and done indicated those were my chores as defined by some unspoken role placement. And, if he were to do "my chores" with intent to get laid, I would be pissed off about that, too.

Chores should have no gender bias. Yes, there are some chores that one or the other person is more capable of doing, such as in my case not being good with an ax and chopping wood, much less actually having the physical strength to perform that chore.

So, am wondering...is there a reversal in this "choreplay" bullshit study? Were I able to chop wood, and let my So know that I was doing that chore to lighten his load (no pun intended), would he feel turned on and consider the "choreplay" as "foreplay"?

The very suggestion that women have traditional roles anymore is so condescending as to be insulting.

[seabeyond]

3. two working adult home, "helping out" is akin to "babysitting" ones own kids.

when do you ever hear that a mother is babysitting the kids. how often do we hear the father is "babysitting" his kids while the mom does something.

IF i was working outside of home, any and all chores are 50% ownership of both gender.

it isn't foreplay. it is creating an environment conducive for the woman to even want to have sex.

my home, both of us get plenty of down time. no one is taking advantage of the other. seems to work for us.

[JerseygirlCT]

6. Yup! nt

[madmom]

8. I used to verbally bet up a friend of my hubby every time he said he had to "babysit" his kids.

[seabeyond]

9. and to me, it isnt even about the woman. i would be insulted if i was a man

taking care of my kids adn they said i was "babysitting". would be a wtf. mother in law and i had some words about it. a decade later she justifies and says, not gonna be pc.

i have two brothers raising their kids. no babysitting there.

[Maru Kitteh]

37. Jeez. It's not even a matter of "being PC" It's about disrespecting a father's relationship

with his child. It's like saying the child doesn't belong to him.

[seabeyond]

42. that is what i told her when she brought it up a decade later. odd, huh. nt

[Maru Kitteh]

91. maybe she felt threatened, some women don't want to believe that a man can have the same

kind of loving bond with a child as a woman can. They feel like it somehow takes something away from them personally.

[LostinVA]

23. OMG -- I don't even have kids and that pisses me off!

YOU DO NOT BABYSIT YOUR OWN KIDS!!!

I have always corrected my male friends and coworkers whenever they say that,"I thought those were your kids. Oh, they are? How do you babysit your own kids?"

[Lorien]

141. +1 nt

[uncommon]

121. "Babysitting" as code for "father actually caring for children" is one of my biggest

pet peeves.

[lumberjack_jeff]

13. I largely agree with you.

It is my habit to turn an argument around backwards to validate it. The flipside argument is: "Ladies, if you want your man to do more around the house, the best way to get that to happen is to have more sex with him."

I don't find that view any less condescending than the one in the OP. I do the lions share of the household tasks because she works outside the house more hours than I do. It's simply the right thing to do.

[Skittles]

20. WTF

women just want men to do their fair share

[lumberjack_jeff]

21. 'Guys, you want sex? Scrub toilets.' What's part of the transaction is ambiguous?

The reverse transaction is fairly obvious. The article describes household interactions as simply a Pavlov demonstration.

Of course people are more likely to have negative attitudes toward partners who exploit/neglect them... but that's not what the article said.

[seabeyond]

25. i get your point, but women didnt write the story. guy, you want woman to not be too tired or

uninterested in sex? do your share of the work...

this is just common sense to me. IF i worked, then there would be no superwoman on my part. i have no desire. SINCE hubby works, i do stuff at home. we both equally have downtime.

as you well understand in your situation.

it is not women bartering self with sex... it is a comon sense reality. a mate can get it or not. and not gender specific

[Control-Z]

52. I'm sorry. That sounds like

prostitution:

"Ladies, if you want your man to do more around the house, the best way to get that to happen is to have more sex with him."

Here, let's try it this way:

Ladies, if you want your man to give you more money, the best way to get that to happen is to have more sex with him.

See?

[seabeyond]

53. i thought his point is, saying men if you want more sex.... was as insulting to men

as saying hey women.... is insulting to women.

that is my perception. am i wrong?

[lumberjack_jeff]

68. The Fox News OP was EXACTLY transactional.

C'mon... "choreplay"?

Both suggestions constitute bartering for sex, it merely flips buyer and seller roles. The difference between "Work in exchange for sex" and "Sex in exchange for work" isn't meaningful.

The flipside of your second example is; "Men, if you want more sex, pay her more money."

The underlying point that Fox missed is fairly simple; if you exploit or neglect your spouse, don't be surprised if (s)he reciprocates.

[Kalyke]

155. I don't think that's the idea - it's actually about sharing workloads.

The idea is that, even now with so many women working outside of the home, that women are still primarily responsible for the children and most of the home chores, as well. Many men have the energy for sex because they're sitting around on the Lazy Boy watching TV while the woman is cleaning, cooking, helping with homework, etc. She's asleep by the time her head hits the pillow.

I don't think there's suggestion that these are traditional roles for women, anymore. In fact, I think it's a study proving to men just the opposite: you want the noogie, you need to pull your load in the rest of the marriage.

[left is right]

4. I agree with the findings

There is nothing sexier or more romantic than a man scrubbing a toilet or washing the dishes without having to ask him to do said chores.

[Lorien]

142. Amen nt.

[slampoet]

5. Do the chores because they need to be done, not because FOX says you'll get anal.

[galileoreloaded]

130. That is the funniest thing i have ever read here. Freaking awesome. n/t

[Missy Vixen]

7. I'm wondering if the divorce rate decreases

when males pitch in around the house. Obviously, there's one poster above who says it doesn't, but I know a lot of women who get tired of picking up and cleaning up after a grown man.

One of the more interesting situations I'm aware of is another author. I'm not going to give identifying information, but I can't believe she hasn't left her husband. She is VERY successful at what she does. She has several school-age children. Her days are crammed with running the kids to sports, doctor's appointments, school responsibilities, and she writes every day. I don't know how she manages to do all that she does. I have never heard ANY indication that her husband helps with any of it.

When both parties work, both parties need to take responsibility for the house, the kids, and the errands. It's hard for me to believe that the vast number of women wouldn't respond to a guy that's actively helping out in the bedroom.

[pipi_k]

10. Part of the problem is that women aren't teaching their sons

how to do basic housework.

Many boys are growing up expecting their wives to do all the housework because that's what they saw as kids.


Strangely enough, I never had to really teach my son how to do housework or keep his area neat. He's always been naturally neat, and now he's married and has two daughters and his wife works longer hours than he does and he does a lot of the cleaning and most of the cooking.

My daughter's husband, OTOH, is pretty much useless around the house even though they both work. Granted, she doesn't work the hours he does, but still... He will often invite his kids over for dinner or whatever, then leave my daughter to cook and clean up. She, of course, resents this, and I've told her to speak up but she only ever wretches to me about it...not him.

Mothers...teach your sons how to do housework. If they're single they'll need the skills. If they get married, it will help make their homes happier.

[slampoet]

11. I'm a complete slob and even I don't expect the women in my life to clean up after me.

[pipi_k]

18. But do you live with women/a woman?

Because if you do, and you clean up after yourself, then you're not really a slob, are you?

[EFerrari]

12. Why only moms? Why not parents?

[pipi_k]

17. No reason, except for

that's what happened to come to mind for me as I recalled my own upbringing (strict gender roles), my useless son-in-law, and the article itself, which clearly says...or implies, anyway, that many men aren't willing to help with the housework except when sex is the end result.

That last part led me to the thought that men who aren't helping around the house because it's the right thing to do also probably don't care if their sons learn how to do housework, either, leaving moms to do that job.

In any event, yes. Both parents need to be involved in teaching their children the basics of life.

[iris27]

101. Because if the dads aren't taking the time to clean up after their own damn selves,

they're sure not going to be the ones taking the time to teach their sons how to clean and cook! I didn't take slampoet to be saying that dads can't or shouldn't do it (in fact it would be preferable and probably have more of an impact on their sons if they did), just that many will not be inclined to do so.

[EFerrari]

157. Right. But the expectation needs to be out there.

I wasn't inclined to be in extra-innings labor with that first kid either but, that was the job. We're not inclined to do a lot of things but there they are. :)

[madmom]

28. Exactly, I taught my son to cook, clean and sew. He can live completely independent of a woman if he

so desired. Good thing too, his wife can't cook for shit.

[Warren DeMontague]

14. I thought people were supposed to have sex for procreation only, not pleasure.

Certainly not to get the dishes done.

[Johonny]

15. this explains why the pool boy gets so much action

;-)

[pipi_k]

22. Yep. Spandex pool trunks are way overrated....

:7

[madinmaryland]

24. Abso-fucking-lutelty...

:D

[pipi_k]

30. Hahahahah reminds me of an old joke...

Elmer goes to the beach hoping to get some dates. Nothing happens.

Fred then decides that Elmer isn't filling out his spandex trunks properly and that's why he's not attracting any female attention, so he tells Elmer to put a raw potato in his trunks and the women won't be able to resist him.

Next week rolls around and Elmer gets to the beach and proudly sports his "new" physique, hoping to attract lots of women. Nothing.

He complains to Fred, who says that the next day he'll go with Elmer to see what he might be doing wrong.

The next day they get to the beach, find a spot, Elmer whips off his towel and sets about trying to attract the eye of a woman a few feet away.

That's when Fred sighs and says, "Elmer...the potato goes in the FRONT of your trunks!"

[Edweird]

16. How is "I'll fuck you if you do the dishes" different than "I'll fuck you for $100"?

If I have to bargain with my 'partner' for sex I'm dropping her like a bad habit and getting a new one. Using sex (or food) as a punishment/reward is grounds for immediate dumping in my book.

[pipi_k]

19. Well, if it all comes down to just "fucking", then yeah...

they probably are both the same.

But if the woman says, "Look...I want us to have a good sex life, and I want to enjoy it too, but I can't when I'm so tired from housework"...

isn't that a little different?

Asking for help for the marriage...for both of them.


Of course, there no doubt are women who will bargain with sex, but I think the majority of women really do want to enjoy sex with their partners but are just too tired...

[Chan790]

26. It's been my experience.

That asking for help for the marriage...for both of them; helps only one person and burdens the other. Sometimes it doesn't even really help one person. I'm reminded of the Peanut Butter conversation.

Me: Why don't you relax, you look exhausted.

Cara: I can't relax knowing your apartment is a mess.

Me: Why?! (Okay, I'm exasperated since I want to be playing tickle and slap instead. Really it's more like Why!?!!?? and kinda whiny.)

C: It just bothers me.

Me: Really?

C: Yes.

Me: Know what bothers me?

C: No. (Suddenly very energetic and bright-eyed like we're about to have a sincere heart-to-heart moment. Alas, it's not to be.)

Me: I can't find the peanut butter.

C: It's in the cabinet with the Marmite.

Me: What in fucking hell is Marmite? (This sounds like something I'd remember buying. This is thusly an inquisitive not an angry question. I swear casually, it's part of my charm.)

C: It's a...it's in the cabinet on top next to the fridge.

Me: That's not where it belongs.

C: Well, it was just sitting on the counter. It's always sitting right there on the counter. Why can't you put it away? (If you missed this up-top, it's my apartment...she doesn't live there. My stuff, my peanut butter, my counter.)

Me: :eyes:

C: Well...

Me: It belongs on the counter though.

Suddenly I realized that she wasn't going to come to accept that I store all my clothing unfolded in and dress out of a toy chest in the bottom of my closet. Nor was she ever going to see the obvious utilitarian awesomeness of the 55-gallon trashcan in the corner of my bedroom, being my primary living space where I spend 70% of my non-work time and where I eat my meals where else would I put it? That I store everything on my sinktop and have an empty medicine cabinet. My clutter and lifestyle was inexorably a part of me as she never would be because they weren't her.

Relationships aren't about compromise, they're about compatible quirk. I prefer clutter to neat and think clean is a multi-step process allowing a t-shirt to be worn 4 non-consecutive days before it requires laundering. I couldn't be happy with someone so obsessed with housework because not only do I not want to do much of it, I dispute that she needs to do it either. Really...who cares? I don't have company over. Who am I trying to impress? It's all me and I prefer barely-clean to actually clean.

[pipi_k]

36. But the thing is...

If you're with someone who has the same standards you have, then it's not a problem.

If two people with completely different standards get together, they either have to find a middle ground (compromise) if they're going to have a relationship, or find someone else who shares their values, or is too much of a doormat to even have opinions/wants/needs.


That's just the way it is.

If you find someone who doesn't mind living the same way you do, then I say good for you.

[Tsiyu]

98. Well, if it's only all about you this is fine

As long as you understand that living as you do will limit your choice of partners.

When it's only you and another adult, that's fine.

The article seems to be discussing married with children types. With children in the picture, your utilitarian, haphazard household wouldn't work.

First off, baby puke makes a shirt dirty the first time you wear it, or else you will smell hideous and spread bubonic plague (or whatever is making the baby projectile vomit) everywhere you go and that's just not being a good citizen.

Secondly, clutter and toddler are a dangerous combo. Anything left out and available - from old hamburgers to new watch batteries go in said toddler's mouth.

So by yourself, your individuality and rebellion against order are admirable. But raising kids, you'd probably risk having your kids taken away for environmental neglect.


The moral of the story: married women might not ever want to sleep with you in your place if their kids were with them....

[Chan790]

140. No kids.

I got fixed. I don't date women with children either...because I got fixed. I am a 30 year old child and I already raised one, my youngest brother because my parents sucked. That was enough for me.

[Tsiyu]

156. Then it's all good

You need this sign my mom gave me a long time ago:


"A Tidy Home is the Sign of a Misspent Life."


I took it as an insult for years; now I embrace it. :toast:

[Beacool]

129. that you'll find too many women that would want to live in your apt.

A 55 gallon trashcan in your bedroom?????

:wow:

[Chan790]

139. Would it be better if...

it were in my office, dining room or living room...because they we're all the same room. It was the master suite of a "railroad" in Brooklyn. 2BA, 2BR, 1Kitch, no common area. Where would you have put it? The bathroom was 8 sq. ft. and the Kitchen a galley. Unlike most building tenants I wasn't going down 4 flights to the dumpster daily.

You might be asking what makes it the master bedroom? It's the one without the external door that nobody has to traverse to get to a bathroom or kitchen. In the row of rooms, it's the one on the end.

[Beacool]

150. I'm familiar with railroad apts.

I live in Hoboken. I can see where you didn't have much room to put a trashcan that size, but why did you need such a big one in the first place?

BTW, My sentence got cut off in my previous post. It should begin with "I doubt", etc.

:D

[Chan790]

153. A valid question...

I needed it because I'm lazy, this is the source of my utilitarian pragmatism. It allowed me to empty my trash once a week. It served as my trash-can for kitchen, bathroom and paper waste. Also, smaller trash cans tend to not have wheels.

[Beacool]

158. OK, I can understanding the reasoning behind it.

But from a female perspective, no girl would like a huge garbage can in her bedroom. LOL!!

:hi:

[Edweird]

27. I work for a living.

Hard and extremely dangerous work. I'm subject to call in whenever the power goes out. I got called in last evening (Saturday) and didn't get home until 4am this morning.
I have apparently been very fortunate in meeting women that understand the value of a hard worker and luckily there are enough 'old school' women out there that I am only single when I choose to be.

I can see how it would fair and equitable if it were a two earner white collar situation.
But not everyone works in an office all day. Some guys bust their asses and risk life and death on daily basis to bring home a paycheck and thankfully there are still some women that respect and admire that.

[seabeyond]

29. wow. da man. nt

[Edweird]

31. Get yourself a set of hooks and get up the pole, then.

There's a good reason there are essentially no women in my trade.

[seabeyond]

32. oh lordy.... i feel the testosterone pumpin.... bah hahaha. nt

[Edweird]

35. All you have are insults. How pathetic. How predictable.

[seabeyond]

43. bah hahaha. nt

[pipi_k]

40. Whatever it is you do...

are you the only man there?

If not, is this the prevailing attitude of the men who do the same thing (or similar) as you do?


I'm having trouble imagining that everyone who performs the same job you do would have the same attitude, but who knows...


In any case, I'm glad you are able to find women who know their place in the world of hard working men.

;)

[Edweird]

55. It's not about anybody 'knowing their place', it's about a partnership.

That partnership doesn't always match up to the OP's worldview. If your significant other put in 12 hours a day laying asphalt in the summer in Florida, would you give him a hard time about the toilet? What if he was a coal miner? Or worked in steel mill? I work on the power lines. I keep the lights on. It is an incredibly demanding and dangerous job. It's not working the phones at a call center or managing a shift at Best Buy.

[seabeyond]

57. then throw in the two three four kids as she works all day and works all night.

you are right, you are tired and she, well hell, has been sittin on her ass all day.

[Edweird]

63. You are projecting.

[seabeyond]

64. am i? do tell. come on, tell me, what the hell am i projecting. cause really,

i have given you SOOO much info on me, my family, my marriage and my hubby, that you would just KNOW what i am projecting

come on big boy, tell me how i am projecting.

but i do see throwing kids into the mix did not even faze you. not even a consideration that added work to the woman sittin on her ass all day at work.

[Curmudgeoness]

65. This is going no place. Edweird just does not get it. Never will.

One day he will be standing there scratching his balls and wonder where all the furniture went.

[seabeyond]

66. yup. and then blame her for being a..... shhhhh, .... feminist. OMG. nt

[seabeyond]

67. lol, or wonder why he doesnt get any anymore. lol. nt

[Curmudgeoness]

70. He probably wonders now. LOL. Well, it has been fun, but I'm getting outta here.

I can't take this much fun in one night.

[seabeyond]

71. me too. clothes to fold. a book to read

ta ta

[Edweird]

69. You are angry that not everyone does it the way you want.

You then imagine scenarios that re-affirm your bitter view.

I don't care about your family or husband or whatever. I'm not talking about you.(I wasn't talking to you either for that matter until you started with your nonsense) You guys do it however you want, it doesn't concern me in any way. I am discussing what works for me and other blue collar guys that are sacrificing our bodies. You are inserting yourself into this with your 'what if's'. I am merely pointing out that what may work for some does not work for others.

[Curmudgeoness]

72. Talk about "what ifs". What if he works in a coal mine.

What if he works in a steel mill. What if.....

[Edweird]

75. Ok. I work on the power lines. No 'what if'.

I put those out there as roughly equivalent blue collar bust ass labor jobs.

[seabeyond]

76. am i angry. hm, no, i am not. i have to have it done my way? no, you are wrong. lol lol

gosh, this is funny, telling me who i am with absolutely no info. they say, assume, ass out of you and me. but telling son and hubby last night, if you are making an ass out of yourself for assuming, what does that have to do with me. lets see, what else

my bitter view? do you know the life i live? no, you dont. no room for bitter, too damn good.

"I don't care about your family or husband or whatever. " no, cause that would be informed before making your incorrect assumptions and why the hell should you be informed BEFORE you tell me who i am. lol

ya, telling me i am projecting, you surely are talking about me.

and then the rest, .... find your little lady or not, and be happy. what you did was diss women, and then you dissed feminists, then you stated a womans place, then you pumped out your chest about what a man you are and how happy that woman is just cause you are all that.

and that

is the big joke.

[Edweird]

80. Again more fiction on your part.

I never said anything about a woman's place - that's projection on your part. I pointed out that different agreements are appropriate for different circumstances.

[seabeyond]

82. you really do not get "projection", do you? cause if you did, you would have to know

something, a little, anything about my life to know if there is any kind of projection at all.

look it up in the dictionary.

[Edweird]

85. Not everyone does it like you want or you think they should.

Some people are perfectly content doing things that don't agree with the way you think they should be. You are generating post after post attacking other people's choices. Define it how you want - I don't care.

[seabeyond]

87. no... that is not what i am doing. you know, really, it is good to ask. you know

so, do you think all should do it like you?
so, do you think that the blue collar, physical labor is the same as a sit behind the desk?

but nooooooo

you dont do that. you tell all who they are, what they think, what they are doing with no info and then you diss women cause they dont BOW down to you.

you started it with your how dare you ask for help or hold out.... you whores. even though not using the word, but the definition, sex for money.

hey dude, own it

you still dont know what i think, who i am, what i do.....

quit thinking you do. cause from your posts, you truly are clueless.

but when dismissing a woman, it doesnt matter how stupid one sounds as long as they sound like the boss.

you came into this thread for confrontation, from your first post.

[Edweird]

92. I don't barter (or pay) for sex. You may see that as a character flaw, but to me it's a positive.

I am always open for reasonable discussion but withholding sex, affection or food is reason for breaking up. I don't expect or want anyone to 'bow down' - that is more fiction on your part. (To me it's clearly projection, but I'm not going to get into 'what the definition of "is" is')

My point the whole time, and even now, is that different strokes work for different folks and that what constitutes a partnership varies and is completely up to the individuals involved. You seem to have a problem dealing with that. That is your problem and not mine.

[seabeyond]

93. if i sat on ass all day, hubby worked, came home and had to cook dinner, took care of the kids

get laundry done so he would have underwear to wear to work the next day, betcha he would not like me too much. betcha he would not be "in the mood" either.

if a man and woman work all day, come home, he sits on his ass and she picks up kids, hits grocery store, cooks, cleans kitchen, gets homework for kids, does some laundry, does the bath, gets things put together for next day, run to store to get something kids need....

betcha she isnt feeling too good about the old hubby and not wantin to do him

now.... i explained it to you, simply, that any brain can figure out.

you CHOSE to make it into an ugly about women, which says a hell of a lot about you. it isnt a gender thing. it is a respect thing.

and yes, the definition of projection matters if you are going to use it. otherwise, well hell, just sounds stupid.

[Edweird]

94. "Working all day" can mean very different things.

Here's a cheap starter kit that'll get you the basics.
Get your hooks and get up the pole and work if you think all "working all day" is equal.

http://www.jharlen.com/harlenvcp1.html
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-66024337934179_2114_204475224

[seabeyond]

96. what an ego. it is all about you. good luck on that. nt

[Edweird]

99. Not everyone does it like you want. Deal with it.

[seabeyond]

102. now, i will clue you in. hubby puts in 60/70 hours a week. i do EVERYTHING

at home. all the dailies. i want him not to have to do any of the cleaning, cooking, laundry, errands, grocery shopping and i do the kid stuff. the schools, the activities, the dramas and traumas. (when they were babies, it was different. hard for both parents, reality)

i have created a happy place for all of us. comfortable, peaceful, safe environment for the family. both hubby and i get our down time.


"Not everyone does it like you want. Deal with it."

i think i am doing just exactly what you are saying you want. except maybe, i am not working a forty hour a week job along with it. lucky me. i dont have to.

[LostinVA]

119. Working all day IS equal -- this is 1950's and 1970's garbage you're spewing

And, ANY stay-at-home works harder than YOU ever do or ever will.

I know people who do what you do, and they sure as hell help around the house and raise their kids. I know people with livelihoods that make what you do seem like laying around all day and playing WOW. They still go home and play catch, put their clothes in the hamper, and help with things round the house.

DEsk jobs are a hell of a lot harder than you see to think, as is being a nurse, a teacher, a librarian, a cashier, an attorney, a whatever.

Go work in food service for a day and see if you could hack it -- I bet not. At least you get paid a good wage.

[LostinVA]

117. So, blue collar workers who "sacrifice their bodies"

Whatever the fuck that maans, shouldn't have to be expected to help around the house that YOU are also responsible for, nor clean up YOUR own messes, because that's the way it's done, and if feminists don't like it, good.

:wtf:

[LostinVA]

118. So, blue collar workers who "sacrifice their bodies"

Whatever the fuck that maans, shouldn't have to be expected to help around the house that YOU are also responsible for, nor clean up YOUR own messes, because that's the way it's done, and if feminists don't like it, good.

:wtf:

[uncommon]

128. You don't think women "sacrifice our bodies" doing the work your kind of man takes for granted?

That's cute.

[pipi_k]

95. Partnership also means

not taking advantage of someone.

If a guy pees on the rim, how hard is it to take a piece of toilet paper and wipe it off?

Five seconds (maybe) out of his busy day.

Toilet brush is there. Cleaner is there. If the toilet looks dirty, it takes all of 30 seconds and a few swipes with the brush to clean it.

Nobody is asking for intensive cleaning here...just a little partnership like cleaning what dirt you notice instead of leaving it for someone else, or, worse, arrogantly treating one's "partner" like a slave.

[LostinVA]

122. If she's a "traditional woman" and he's a blue collar guy

Sacrificng his body (whatever the hell that means),m that makes it okay if he pisses all over the floor and doesn't clean it up.

[pipi_k]

131. I know I should be asking the guys this...

but why on earth do guys piss on the floor, anyway?

Is the toilet not big enough? Are they handling out-of-control fire hoses?


As I'm getting older it's getting more and more difficult for me to get down on my hands and knees to scrub around the base of the toilet, the baseboards, the floor. Mr Pip does his best to aim, and I appreciate it. But occasionally we'll have company or relatives over, and some of the men are just...well...slobs.

The other day I noticed that there is a suspicious yellow stain in the grout around the tile in the main bathroom near the toilet. Not even NEAR the toilet...I'm talking at least 8 inches to the left side, and 4 inches down away from the front edge.

I have one of those ultraviolet lights that shows different types of stains, and there are pee stains all over the walls on either side of the toilet (which is in a small cubicle areas in the bathroom.

This really pisses me off, no pun intended. Now I have to figure out some way to get those areas clean without hurting myself.

Men...get a clue...control that thing, or piss OUTSIDE where you can spray to your heart's content.

:mad:

[LostinVA]

135. My father says it's because men are careless or drunk

He does NOT do it, because my mom would make him scrub the floor if he did.

[Morning Dew]

105. Well, I declare, it's a real man.

Swoon.


:rofl:

[seabeyond]

106. you know, i was havin to fan myself with my hand.... i hear ya. nt

[Morning Dew]

107. Fanning is all I can manage in this state.

That much testosterone makes me feel all weak and helpless.


I am going to need a lot of help with the housework now.

[darkstar3]

110. Sure, 'cause outside jobs are the only ones that mentally and physically exhaust people.

Lemme guess, you look down on people with "cushy office jobs"...:eyes:

[LostinVA]

124. He does -- he says it in another post

"Working all day isn't equal."

I have done hard physical labor and have had "cushy" office jobs. They are both exhausting in similra and different ways. I would love to see Mr. Lineman try to be a waiter on a busy Saturday night. Methinks he couldn't hack it. Working as wait staff is the hradest thing I have ever done, and I've worked in the fields.

[Jokerman]

162. Get over yourself dude.

Line work is a piece of cake compared to retail management. I've done both and the only thing that makes line work a challenge is the weather. Just because someone doesn't climb polls for a living doesn't necessarily mean that their job is easy.

[Curmudgeoness]

33. Your "partner" will be lucky when you go. You miss the point.

I don't know why a study was needed for this. If you are not willing to lighten the load for her, then is she just a slave in your opinion? You eat, you help. You dirty clothes, you help. You use the toilet, you help. If not, I can't blame her for "not in the mood" or "have a headache".

[seabeyond]

34. nope. not this one. post 27. he works for a living. ergo, regardless of woman working too

tis her job. and thankfully, he can find that little filly that appreciates a good man.....

but thanks for your post

to me it is not so much a gender issue. either party being taken advantage of is going to be not so please, at least, eventually.

[Curmudgeoness]

39. I agree that taking advantage of your partner, whether male or female,

is really selfish. It has to hurt the relationship. Glad that some of these Neandrathals can find those old fashioned women. Hell, I would be one myself if he were an old fashioned man---who made enough money that I would not need to work outside the house.

[Edweird]

38. What's funny is that there are women that actually WANT to take care of 'their man'.

Seriously. I know that makes the feminists all angry and stuff (presumably because it makes them look bad), but that's just the reality. I hold up my of the bargain - a bargain that you apparently don't 'get'.

[Curmudgeoness]

41. No, I don't get it. I do not know why a woman should have to work

all day outside the house, then come home and work all night while the little man sits there watching tv. But if your woman is really happy with this situation, that is her business and I would not begrudge her. I propose that you may be rather surprised if you could read her mind.

[Edweird]

44. I propose that different people view the same situation differently.

I assert that what works for you may not be what works for others - that is in fact the point of my post in the first place. I'm not saying that all women should do all the work - I'm saying that it varies based on the circumstances and the values of the people involved. If we had roughly equivalent jobs then there is no argument on my part. However, if one of the partners is a part time checker at the local grocery store and the other works in a coal mine, then maybe things are different.

[Curmudgeoness]

48. I will not argue that a part time job does not equate to a full time job.

But even if this were the case, you should take the advise in the original post and make a little attempt to help out, just because you love and appreciate her. If you do. And don't make a huge production out of it, like you are doing her such a favor. Just do it and see if she gets mad that you are doing "her" work, or if she is appreciative. I promise it will not hurt too much.

[noamnety]

100. If you had come at this differently you wouldn't have pissed people off.

If I understand your basic point, it's that if one person is working a very highly demanding job with long hours and the other isn't, that should be taken into account when deciding what an equitable overall division of labor is. I don't think anyone here would argue that - it would hold true if a woman was a firefighter and her husband was laid off or retired, right?

The problem is when you start equating the longer physically demanding job outside the home with Manliness, and the person doing the other half of the work as Good Old Fashioned Womanly Virtue with None of that Feminist Shit.

There's a difference between equitably dividing work in a relationship based on individual circumstances, versus coming at it with an offensive chauvinistic viewpoint based on stereotypical gender roles.

[pipi_k]

45. I have to tell you about a situation I was in some years ago...

Each weekday I would get up at 6 AM, say goodbye to the BF while he was still in bed. He was, for a short time, going to a community college, then to a small business school. So I get to work for 8 AM, work till 5 (oh, and often had to work through lunch when the other office lady wasn't there)...come home, sometimes had to do some grocery shopping, then make dinner.

He's at the computer doing lord knows what. Or talking on the phone for 90 minutes. Really.

One day he starts bitching about the toilet (that he ALSO used) being dirty under the rim.

I only wish now I had had the gumption to shove the toilet brush in his face and told him to clean the fucking toilet himself.

He thought his school was harder than my 9 hours of work plus 1 1/2 hours of commute time every day plus having to shop and cook dinner and do dishes on top of it.

He would sometimes call me at work and ask me to pick up something for him at the store...usually cigarettes. Well, he was VERY picky about what size, and the type of box they came in. One night I stopped at THREE different places but couldn't find what he wanted, so I got his usual brand only they were the hard pack...not the soft pack like he wanted. Ungrateful bastard actually had a shitfit over it.

Granted, he would occasionally vacuum and do laundry, but not without pointing out to me that he had done it.

yech.

The guy was a big time user who found women who would take his crap. I did, for almost five years, but then I moved on. No doubt in the 16 years since then, he's found other women to treat the same way.

[Curmudgeoness]

46. I wish you would have shoved that toilet brush, uh, in his face too.

Glad you escaped the cave. I think we have all had this situation at some time in our lives. You put up with it for five years, and did not shove that toilet brush---you make my point that some men would be scared shitless if they knew what their women really were thinking.

[pipi_k]

50. The problem there was that he had this whole "act" down pat...

He knew how to play me.

As they often say in AA, alcoholics don't have relationships...they hold hostages.

And I became a willing participant in the whole thing, which, in some ways, felt a bit like I was involved in a Stockholm Syndrome situation, you know?

He would reel me in like a fish, then threaten to leave. Reel me in, threaten to leave. Over and over. Oh, and while he was doing that, he managed to appear pathetic and damaged and vulnerable.


He deserved an Oscar for the role he played.

but yeah...even though it was still very hard to break away, I knew that I never really saw the real person...only someone I wanted to see.

[Curmudgeoness]

58. They often have the act down pat.

Everything that doesn't kill us makes us stronger, right?

[pipi_k]

97. that's what I say...

and I tell my kids that, too.

Never lament having gotten involved with people like that, because it's all about learning and building character.

[Bunny]

47. Your problem is that you didn't want to 'take care of your man'.

Shame on you.





:sarcasm:

[seabeyond]

49. cause she is a .... lol lol.... feminist... lmao

i cant help it. this is so fuckin funny.

k

back to the laundry

rofl

[pipi_k]

54. Laundry? Is that all you did today?

shit...I milked the entire herd of cows, shucked 25 bushels of peas, plowed 800 acres of rocky soil, cooked a ten course dinner for 18 people, bathed all 16 of the kids and put them to bed, painted the barn (with an eyeliner brush), and knit an entire winter wardrobe for Mr Pip.

While I clipped my toenails.

[seabeyond]

56. wink. lol. nt

[Curmudgeoness]

59. What!?! You didn't clip his toenails? Slipping up, girl. nt

[seabeyond]

60. bah hahaha. oh, i tell ya. this is a hoot. and even more funny.... i do ALL that taken care of

my man... shit. lol

[Curmudgeoness]

61. Did Edweird go away? Did we scare him away?

He hasn't lashed back in minutes!

[seabeyond]

62. nah...

he was in the subthread above a moment ago.

post 55

[LostinVA]

74. QUIT PROJECTING!!!

[seabeyond]

78. bah hahahah.... i thought he was down here yelling at me, and all the while

it was ...... YOUUUUUUU

lol

ya ya

[LostinVA]

81. Go fold the laundry, Woman

[seabeyond]

83. i gotta. hubby gonna whooop my ass cause i am not gettin 'er done. lol. nt

[pipi_k]

51. Or, as Tammy said....

"Stand by your man...give him two arrrrmmmms to cling to....and something warm to come to, when nights are cold and lonelyyyyyy..."

etc. etc.


:+

[LostinVA]

73. 'Cause he was only single when he wanted to be

I can't decide if that or the "making feminists" remark is my fave. Or maybe the "there's a reason there are no women in my profession." They are all so wonderfully anti-equality.

[seabeyond]

79. my brother did oil well, underwater welding, nuclear power plants and HE

didnt talk like this.

oh and he is a mans man, fox news watching rw'er

[LostinVA]

125. I have redneck crabbers in my extended family

Borderline Teabaggers, and THEY don't talk or act like this, and help around the house.

[darkstar3]

112. You think women making a choice makes feminists look bad?

WTF is wrong with you?

[joshcryer]

145. Read the irreverant responses.

[Lorien]

144. You make all men sound like helpless, whining infants

which is somehow not surprising.

[leftstreet]

86. Wait a minute. It's okay to 'buy' housework from yer woman, but not sex?

Your position is that your life-endangering hard work essentially 'buys' housekeeping from a female in your life, but you hold the line at viewing sex as the same type of service or commodity? Do I have that right?

I'm so lost.

This thread is hilarious!

:beer:

[seabeyond]

88. see, i ran downstairs, did a load, chuckled with hubby, suggested an ass whoopin

..... later, lol, and now back gigglin.

:toast:

[leftstreet]

89. With all the laundry you've done on this thread, I'm thinkin I should have married you!

:-)

:toast:

[seabeyond]

90. whats that about big hats and no horses. or all horse and no hat. or or or

took a long time to get to that last load.

[AspenRose]

133. Scoot over.

:popcorn:

[Radical Activist]

108. If needed, I establish quickly in a relationship

that sex (or lack of sex) is not a reward or punishment for other behavior. Otherwise, you might as well give her permission to train you like a child or dog. My first serious girlfriend did that sometimes and I was too young and stupid to set more boundaries. My girlfriend should have sex with me because she enjoys it. If she doesn't then we don't need to be in a relationship.

[seabeyond]

109. but you understand this is not empty the dishwasher and you get sex, right?

i dont like females using sex as reward or punishment either. or using sexuality to get something. just isnt me. that is manipulation. yuk.

but this isnt what the article is about.

why there are issues with the poster. totally misread the article.

[Radical Activist]

111. I've met couples

that descended to the point of having sex when the man did something to "earn" it. It's disgusting.

But, getting back the article. It claims the study shows that for women, good sex is tied to slowing down "the parts of the brain responsible for processing fear, anxiety and emotion."

The writer then decides that the best way to reduce anxiety and stress for women is to do some of their womanly chores around the house. Because, what else do women have to be stressed about, right? I would be astonished at seeing something that sexist published on a news site, but what else can we expect from Fox?

[seabeyond]

114. if you are a woman, working a forty hour week, taking care of the kids, picking them up after

work, hittin the grocery store, cooking dinner, cleaning up, homework for kids, doing a load of laundry, getting things ready for the next day.... and your hubby is sittin on his ass

you cant see why there may be a little stress going on, or resentment even?

[Radical Activist]

115. Of course.

By why is the first and only item the article runs to about how to relieve a woman's stress is to do some of the "woman work" around the house for her? It strikes me as deeply sexist.

[seabeyond]

116. because they are finding with more and more women working full time, women are still

doing the majority of the housework and child care. it is the issue in so many households. with all their time and energy taken up on real life, they dont have the energy for the play. want to play? help to alleviate the work load. my hubby works long hours. i get he is tired. i do what i can to insure when he comes home he gets down time. not a tough one. i love him, i want him to have it as easy as can be, so i do what i can to insure that.

btw, women are conditioned, just as men. and women have to fight the conditioning just like men. from the beginning, as girls, females are conditioned their worth is their sexuality. so, it is not surprising that women use their sexuality to manipulate. when society conditioned in one way, there are repercussions to the action. no different than the societal conditioning of men.

[uncommon]

123. Amen to that.

While both partners should put in their fair share of work at home, it should NOT be a transaction.

And ps universe - women actually *like* sex - they just don't like having sex with men who treat them like servants.

[Lorien]

143. The findings aren't about a "transaction"; most women are expected to be

mothers, chefs, maids, second income or primary income earners AND sexual partners (on demand, with the more insecure authoritarian men). It's exhausting. When men pitch in they take a small amount of the pressure off. Research has shown that marriage reduces a man's domestic labor by 20 hours per week and increases a woman's by as much. That creates more than a little resentment over time. How can anyone be expected to feel turned on when they are both pissed off and completely exhausted?

[truebrit71]

159. I dunno..normally I can get the dishes done for less than $100?

:evilgrin:

[JackDragna]

77. Is this really a shock?

Maybe signs of giving two craps about the condition of the house and helping out might endear one to one's spouse! Who knew? :)

[sendero]

84. If I were going to treat my wife..

.. like a slave, it wouldn't be doing the cooking and cleaning.

She does most of that, and I have things around the house I do. If she is tired or needs help she asks, and I help.

I have no interest in her being bone tired. And I would never treat my most precious treasure like a pack mule.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

103. Now I know why people want to work from home!

he's working from home - oh yeah!

[flvegan]

104. I do ALL the chores around my house, and I'm not getting any.

"Help" nothing. I do EVERYthing around here. Oh, wait...nevermind. No woman here.

Shit. I hate missing ingredients.

[Curmudgeoness]

137. LOL, I was going to ask if you were a woman. That would have

explained it.

:rofl:

[joshcryer]

147. Same here. But I'd have no problem with doing them all even if I did.

Chores are so trivial. Dishwashers, laundry machines / driers, non-bag vacuums (trivially cleaned), big garbage bags with built in ties, automatic toilet bowl cleaners, squeegie mops. Chores are so much easier than they were 100 years ago that it's a joke of epic proportions.

Now raising kids, I will grant you is somewhat different. But that's parenting, not chores. Putting raising kids in with the same category as chores is demeaning to children.

[Book Lover]

113. Jesus Christ in shortpants, people. This is *FOX*

and you're taking it seriously? :facepalm:

[Curmudgeoness]

138. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. And this study is a

no-friggin-brainer. Except for a few men who seem a little cranky here. I think they aren't getting any.

[uncommon]

120. Are we really seeing "research" in 2010 that says women are more likely to have sex with you if you

treat them as equals?

:yawn:

[seabeyond]

126. and this is the bottom line. of course, how fox presents it totally fucks up the point.

but then, that is the best way to keep the gender battles going

[peekaloo]

127. *snort* brain scans while given hand jobs.

Fox at it's finest!

[LostinVA]

136. It was a study from the Netherlands

[peekaloo]

161. as reported from the Nether Region of journalism.

as usual Fox takes a story of shared responsibility and gender equality and fucks up the Happy Ending.

[Beacool]

132. It makes sense.

To me relationships are not only about love, but also about respect. If I choose to be with someone long term I want to feel that were are on equal footing. If we both work, but when I come home I end up having to do 75% of the housework, then I feel that he doesn't respect me or care about my wellbeing. Relationships should be about being with someone who makes your heart sing, who makes you laugh, who is there for you as you are for him in good times, but most specially in bad times. In other words, a life partner. If a guy just wants a maid, cook, chauffeur and all around gofer, plus expects XXX porn star antics in bed, the he can look elsewhere because I don't need him.

Better alone than in bad company.

:shrug:

[cbdo2007]

134. My wife and I have a good relationship regardless of the chores or the sex.

[joshcryer]

146. Chores are unavoidable aspect of life, work isn't.

One day I hope to live without any kind of work whatsoever.

[seabeyond]

148. they seem to be avoidable for some... i think that may be the issue. nt

[joshcryer]

149. Sure, in unrealistic scenarios, maybe. An exaggerated reality, possibly.

If we want an ideal world with equal sharing of chores and work down to the minute and effort used, then that's a fine ideal and I fully support it. But I'm not going to be deluded or misled into thinking that chores alone are anything like work.

For my chores today I took out the garbage, and did my dishes (by simply rinsing them off and putting them into the dishwasher), this took all of 10 minutes, tops. Over the weekend I did my laundry and cleaned the bathroom and kitchen, that was 3 hours of effort tops.

For my work today I spent 2 hours waiting for supplies while tidying up our work space, moving several rock piles poorly positioned to another area, most of the rocks were moved with a bobcat in 10 minutes, but the rest of that time was spent shoveling the excess into the bobcat and driving it over, withh 10-15 minute breaks in between. Then I spent well over 2 hours in the scorching heat lugging wood off of a truck into a pile because the idiots bringing it couldn't get it there in a timely manner, breaks had to be 20 minutes in between because of the heat. Next we had to cut wood for 2 hours or so, with sawdust flying everywhere and the scorching sun beating down, with, again, more 20 minute breaks in between.

Chores are trivial things that are done within a matter of minutes on any given day. Work is stuff that takes up the whole day and destroys your soul.

In a given week I work 40 hours, and do chores 4 hours, being very generous, most of that time is spent watching the clothes go around in the washing machine (I don't have one so much go to a laundry mat, if I had my own washing machine this, too, would be such a trivial task as to be a joke).

[seabeyond]

151. ya, go figure. when i was single i could clean whole house, top to bottom in three hours

mop, vaccuum, bleach, dust.... bathrooms, kitchen, ect...

and stayed that way until the next sunday.

and you know what... took me a minute or two to order my dinner from where ever.

if you are really gonna lecture, without broadening your understanding, then really, pretty insignificant.

and btw... to be clear, i am not bitchin. i am perfectly satisfied with my choices, marriage, hubby, kids and life.

[joshcryer]

152. If you have kids you should raise them to be compatiable with your standard of living.

For instance, if you don't like messes, your children, at a very very young age, should be taught to clean up after themselves. My nephews room is more spotless than mine was as a kid and he has far more toys than I ever did. He isn't expected to make his bed, I was. I made my bed every morning but I had stuff that I was taking apart on tables strewn about my room.

While parenting changes the dynamic somewhat, it doesn't change it so dramatically as to render chores much more difficult than they were before with proper parenting.

It amuses the fuck out of me when I watch those nanny shows (my sister-in-law is a big fan), and the mommy is freaking out because she can't keep up with the messes the kids make. A parents job is not to be a servant to ones kids, that's worse than being a servant to ones husband. Either be a proper parent and teach them to clean up after themselves, or live with it.

I was doing the whole families laundry when I was 8 years old. A family of 6. Indeed, my parents did few chores once they had 4 young boys running around doing everything for them. I was even cooking when I was 10, making breakfast for the whole family (big pan of eggs and fried potatoes).

When we all moved out of my moms she lamented the fact that she'd have to take the garbage out again. I still take it out for her when I visit. :)

Really, the day when all I have to do is chores is a fucking great day indeed.

[seabeyond]

154. you are a better man than i am.... wink. nt

[uncommon]

160. Add a husband, a few kids, and some pets to the mix and suddenly that 4 hours of easy chores becomes

many, many hours of drudgery --

Wake up, clean litter boxes, walk the dog for the first time, feed the kids, bathe the kids, do the dishes, do a load of laundry, drive the kids to soccer practice, obligatory socializing with other parents while kids practice/run errands, take the kids home, get them cleaned up again, make them lunch, walk to dog again, vacuum the living room, clean litter boxes again, follow smaller children around all day picking up after them, repeatedly direct older children to pick up after themselves, give up and do it for them, mow the lawn, make dinner for family, get kids ready to bed, try to muster enthusiasm for sex.

Being a housewife (or husband on the rare occasion) would be a piece of cake with no kids.