Krugman: America Goes Dark

[depakid]

The lights are going out all over America — literally. Colorado Springs has made headlines with its desperate attempt to save money by turning off a third of its streetlights, but similar things are either happening or being contemplated across the nation, from Philadelphia to Fresno. Meanwhile, a country that once amazed the world with its visionary investments in transportation, from the Erie Canal to the Interstate Highway System, is now in the process of unpaving itself: in a number of states, local governments are breaking up roads they can no longer afford to maintain, and returning them to gravel.

And a nation that once prized education — that was among the first to provide basic schooling to all its children — is now cutting back. Teachers are being laid off; programs are being canceled; in Hawaii, the school year itself is being drastically shortened. And all signs point to even more cuts ahead.

We’re told that we have no choice, that basic government functions — essential services that have been provided for generations — are no longer affordable. And it’s true that state and local governments, hit hard by the recession, are cash-strapped. But they wouldn’t be quite as cash-strapped if their politicians were willing to consider at least some tax increases.

And the federal government, which can sell inflation-protected long-term bonds at an interest rate of only 1.04 percent, isn’t cash-strapped at all. It could and should be offering aid to local governments, to protect the future of our infrastructure and our children.

But Washington is providing only a trickle of help, and even that grudgingly. We must place priority on reducing the deficit, say Republicans and “centrist” Democrats. And then, virtually in the next breath, they declare that we must preserve tax cuts for the very affluent, at a budget cost of $700 billion over the next decade.

More: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/09/opinion/09krugman.html?_r=1&hp

Glen Greenwald has a recent column on the same theme:

What Collapsing Empire Looks Like

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/08/06/collapse/index.html

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SpiralHawk]

5. The republicons intentionallly want to bankrupt state governments

They really do. So sick. First the Republicons trashed America's economy under AWOL Bush and Five-Deferments Cheney, and now they want to strangle state and local governments. Family Values, my ass.

[Confusious]

7. Any values, my ass

They only have fealty to mammon.

[Jackpine Radical]

51. Yes, exactly.

According to Toesucker Morris, the game plan is to pass Federal legislation permitting states to enter bankruptcy, and then to use this as a route to disavowing employee retirement obligations and union contracts.

[demigoddess]

92. I think they want to do that as a route to a dictatorship on the

federal level. Republicans forever is their motto. and they want no opposition.

[Jackpine Radical]

94. They're building a

Thousand Year Reich Oiligarchy.

[JDPriestly]

52. Republicans are the true anarchists.

It's astounding. They are vultures. They just want to feed on the carcass of America. And when all the meat is gone? Have the asked themselves what they will do then? Because America is getting thinner with each day. Don't let the obesity fool you. That obesity is the bloating of the dying.

Sorry if the images are too strong for some, but this is the truth.

[bjobotts]

65. Creating economic insecurity and massive uncertainty is Shock Doctrine Oligarchy#1

[bjobotts]

66. Only a huge democratic majority can stop them at this point.Then they will fear the people.

[TBF]

88. That is why we keep hearing about Globalization -

they need new victims. Capitalism is like a tapeworm or something...

[Kievan Rus]

112. Capitalism is a virus

[Grinchie]

122. Actually, I think you are too kind in your wording

Conservatives will destroy your land, take all the tree's, destroy historic archaeological sites, encroach upon your land, admit it, and then ask you to give them your land so they don't have to realign the roads they built.

They are truly the most vile and heartless people on the face of the Earth.

Boy do I love fucking with them, and I am ruthless as a Fricking Shark With A Laser Beam Attached to Its Head!

I love watching them turn from Amiable Old Joe to CEO of Monsanto in a single letter telling them No, you have nothing I want.

Then, they will use all the power they can to turn others into hateful monsters to do their dirty work for them, while they channel that hate and anger to do their work for them.

It's actually quite fascinating to watch them operate, but their games have been exposed, and people are smarter these days.

I know I am, and they hate that! The trick is to be amiable, but never let up the pressure for a minute until they withdraw, run away, or just plain abandon the enterprise because it's just too costly. They are money grubbing assholes.

[demi moore]

126. there is a big wide world

left after the bones are dry. i'm sure they will figure out something

they just want their country back :cry:

[Rosa Luxemburg]

72. before the Nov elections

[Cherchez la Femme]

87. Which party holds the majority?

with influence not just in Congress but in their districts/states?

--and you just HATE Obama and all the trickle-down good he's doing with corporations!!!11!


Please note, that last line is, of course :sarcasm:

edit: As usual, spelling/grammar :(

[Axle_techie]

118. Last time I checked

it was the Democratic party in the majority...

[elzenmahn]

123. Check out tonight's Rachel Maddow's story...

...on our crumbling infrastructure - governments are now forced to convert roads back to gravel because they can no longer afford to maintain them.

Our citizens would rather have our roads, waterways, bridges, etc., become third-world quality rather than invest the tax dollars necessary for proper maintenance. Our priorities are f$#%!ed up.

[truedelphi]

124. The Uber Rich are not even trucking around on our roads -

They happen to be at whatever pure water and white sand beaches are in favor with the jet set crowd this year.

They are the ones who control the media, who tell the average Joe and Josie what to think, and what new thing Sarah Palin's offspring said yesterday or today.

What happens in this country doesn't matter all that much to them. The little bit of time they spend here is all within the confines of their gated community monster home, adjacent to the golf links.

[Hubert Flottz]

129. The problem is your tax dollars are directed to flow into the...

the fat cat's wars.

[apnu]

32. I'm sure they see the damage...

... they don't care. So long as the fat, corporate, donor checks keep rolling in, they'll cling to a shit sandwich all day, every day, and at night too. The payday is too good, you see. Greed is America's downfall.

[valerief]

42. +69 trillion

[Fire1]

48. It's a damn shame you have to spell shit out for folks but I guess

it's a sign of the times. As for the essence of your post, they are far from "retarded." They know very well, what they're doing and WHO they're doing it to!!! WE are our own worst enemy with our heads in the sand.

[Confusious]

50. I didn't want to think people could have so little concern for others.

Or for their country.

I'm being proved wrong.

[Fire1]

53. It's the classic theme, "Man's Inhumanity to Man." I'm sure

you've heard of, "The Grapes of Wrath" or "To Kill a Mockingbird."

[Confusious]

56. Yes. I've also studied WW2 since I was 15.

Rarely was I surprised in the 80's, 90's and up to 2008. I expected assholishness. They kept hitiing new lows every year.

But they seem to hit new lows every three months or so and surprise me with their sheer unadulterated cruel stupid asshole dickwadishness.

[Fire1]

60. Well, to 'them" the stakes have never been higher. n/t

[CoffeeCat]

114. Yes, exactly...

Everything that is happening is not some mistake or the work of dunderheads. These selfish greed-mongers
know exactly that they are doing. It's all intentional.

And if I hear one more person ask why the Democrats are so weak and why do they give in to the Republicans,
I will scream. Democrats are aligned with the corporations, just as the Republicans are. So, when the
Dems are in power, and progressive legislation doesn't pass--we just assume that Democrats are weak and
that Republicans are the big, bad bullies. Oh please.

There's so much denial in this country about both parties, and about what is happening to our democracy.

[Sherman A1]

125. Agreed & Well Said

[midnight]

2. Amazing how there is heavy spending for wars, and

wanting to reduce the deficit at the cost of our children? That is not my brand of National Security.

[AlbertCat]

57. Amazing how there is heavy spending for wars,

This is the thing!

If we acted like we were in 2... count 'em, TWO.... wars we would have higher taxes, rationing and a draft. But we here at home put a yellow sticker on our car and then go about business as if we were not fighting anyone anywhere. Imagine how different things would be if there was a draft and rationing.

But it's not just the wars.... it's the Pentagon. It has become a welfare system for big government contractors. Imagine what could be done for schools and local communities with 1/3 of their budget.

[misterkhalil]

90. Blame Limbaugh, Beck, and Coulter's populism

Intelligence doesn't play well with right-wing populism.

Instead of slightly increasing taxes (especially from the wealthy) to pay off the debt, we would rather say "TAXES SUCK". It's much easier to do that then actually think.

[JerseygirlCT]

96. War doesn't ever seem to require any thought as to cost

(financial and lives).

For that, there always seems to be more money, and few if any questions asked about how it's spent.

[skepticscott]

105. And how many wars down through history

have been entered into almost enthusiastically by one side or both, because they were expected to be quick and easy, but turned out to be anything but? Almost too many to count, and the lesson has yet to be learned.

[Liberty Belle]

121. In past wars, taxes were raised to fund them/and or people were asked to make sacrifices.

The Bush empire asked for none of those things and instead ran America into the ground.

We are seeing most of these things here in CAlifornia already, though I haven't yet heard of roads being ground up.

[6000eliot]

3. Anything but make rich people pay their share.

Our infrastructure is in ruins and we have millions of people out of work, but nothing can be done about it. We are becoming a "third-world" nation.

[ixion]

4. we don't need tax increases, we need to stop government corruption

which is where all the money is going.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ixion]

24. Not a "tea partier" in the slightest. I AM a concerned citizen, however.

but, hey, thanks for the snark.

Do you DENY that corruption, fraud and waste is ubiquitous in government spending allocation?

Do you DENY that money is NOT WASTED on things like the MIC and the so-called 'wars' on drugs and terror?

[Kalyke]

29. I don't deny either, but we do need taxes on the wealthy

to GO BACK (not increase, per se) to what they were before Shrub.

That should apply to anyone making more than $200,000 for an individual and $250,000 for a family. Obama promised not to to tax those making under those goalposts.

[burnsei sensei]

54. In the case of Medicare, yes I do.

This is an example of a program that is so efficient that the private sector has yet to out-perform it.
Social Security is solvent and will be for some time.
Why? It is extremely well managed.
Government money for many programs having to do with people is tightly monitored; and used for very specific purposes.

The intentions of government concerning the redirection of wealth toward the rich are all corrupt.
The health care reform was a gift for Karen Ignagni and her friends-- particularly after she wrote the legislation.
No single-payer.
No public option.
That is a picture of corruption, certainly.
It is the picture of the government working to enrich them who've already got.

Mineral Management Service
Another example of government corruption.
Lodged in tight with the big oil big boys.
Yes, this is corruption certainly.

Here's the bottom line.
I'm sick of hearing about government corruption in social spending.
Most of it is in the military, foreign aid, subsidizing finance and corporate welfare.
Where money goes to the rich, there is corruption.
Where it goes to those in need, no wrong is done. NONE AT ALL.

[ixion]

98. please note that I use the MIC as a prime example

This is what I'm saying: If we stop funneling money hand-over-fist to the MIC, we could have a Cadillac Health and Human services system and we'd probably be able to LOWER taxes, and still have that fine system.

I will not deny that I'm no fan of taxes, I do however, understand the concept of the Social Contract.

[burnsei sensei]

131. I don't blame you for not liking taxes.

But if you saw tangible benefits in the world around you when you did so, you'd understand them and even like them a little.
My impression is that conservatives do understand the idea of social contract.
Unlike you, they deny its existence.
In their world, every man is alone, every corporation has friends, and a beneficent God is the only hope.

[bjobotts]

67. Yes I deny it. Fraud and waste make up less than 2%But they want you to believe in welfare queens

[bjobotts]

68. Increase in Population demands increase in Gov. Only Gov is big enough to take on the Oligarchs

[bjobotts]

69. Exxon/Mobile made 19 bil. in profits last yr but paid no taxes & got $156 mil tax return

[bjobotts]

70. The true waste in Gov is not collecting equal taxes from Oligarchs & transnational coporations

[bjobotts]

71. That is where the money for rebuilding infrastructure and maintaing communities has gone

[bjobotts]

73. Before the Reagan tax cuts on the ultra rich these problems never existed

[bjobotts]

74. The Tea Party Taliban said nothing when repubs were raping the country with a massive deficit

[bjobotts]

75. $12 bil cash missing in Iraq, Trillions misplaced at Pentagon, War profiteers moved to Dubai

[bjobotts]

76. REpubs and their corporate handlers along with corporate dems are destroying our nation

[bjobotts]

78. Taking our country back means taking it back from the wealthy 1% who control more than 95% of us

[ixion]

99. I agree with you on the 1%, however raising taxes isn't going to fix the issue

[ixion]

97. I'm sorry, but we'll have to respectfully disagree

[Greyhound]

41. "All the money" is going to corporate welfare programs disguised as 'government'. n/t

[prairierose]

58. We do need tax increases for those at the top....

they have been getting a free ride for the past almost 30 years and that is one of the things that has increased the deficit. Ever since raygun was elected and their fantasy economic policies were put into play we have been falling behind.

[disidoro01]

6. It's easy

To blame the rich or to blame Reagan or George Washington or anyone else. The simple fact remains every election is an opportunity to foster change. A question to ask is why Washington supports two economic black holes in our foreign wars and why our government refuses to streamline and cut wasteful spending.To push the burden on the backs of Americans without our state and federal governments cutting their excess is simply wrong. Raise taxes on the rich? No problem but let's also have our various levels of government tighten their belts. That seems more than fair.

[rucky]

8. Elections are not going to produce the change we need until we...

stop electing the people who raise the most corporate cash. Once we take that influence away, we can get people in there who are not corrupt. Much of the waste you describe come in the form of handouts large corporations and private interests. Why else would they spend so much cash on lobbying, unless they see a big ROI for their efforts?

States are even easier to influence, with a big payoff. Here in Ohio we're competing with Indiana in a race to the bottom, to see how many giveaways we can offer businesses to come here and create a few minimum-wage jobs. Meanwhile they're shutting down schools. Tax breaks aside, what business would want to move into a community with boarded-up schools?

The "belt-tightening" is already happening - but as a direct result of not investing in the right things when times were better. The housing crisis led to a huge shortfall in property tax revenues. I don't see how much tighter their belts can get.

[Kievan Rus]

113. I agree 100%

It's pretty much a foregone conclusion already that Joe Sestak of Pennsylvania's odds aren't that good of getting elected to the Senate. The reason? Because the Chamber of Commerce and all the other KKKorporatist shills are doing nothing but air attack ads against him.

[Axle_techie]

119. +100

[sendero]

9. Our government..

... has been completely co-opted by business interests. You know, the thing that Libertarians have wanted for years.

Well, this is the result. And voting is a joke, the Democrats are so infinitesimally better than the Republicans it really makes no difference.

At this point, the country is heading to rock bottom and once we get there maybe people will wake up and throw ALL the bums out with extreme prejudice and perhaps we can start over then.

[disidoro01]

10. No

Everybody says big business this and big business that. Chuck Rangel didn't have to take all the "perks" he has taken. He made that choice. Does business behave unethically? Sure they do but please get over this garbage of big business being all the ills of the country. A politician does not have to be corrupt, they make that choice. DC is as complicit as any business out there. While people on this forum and others talk about throwing the bums out, we'll all continue to vote party lines because a serial killer from the republican party is a better option to republicans than a good democrat. AND vice versa. People from the democratic party would vote in a murderer as a better choice than a center republican. I'm using extreme points but it isn't far from the truth.

[w4rma]

13. It's much easier to win a campaign with big buisness paying for it.

So the honest politicians have to work *much* harder and at the end of it all get none of the golden parachute perks that the corrupt ones get.

[sendero]

36. Charles Rangel..

.. had jack shit to do with any of it. Phil Gramm, Grover Norquist, the Bushes, Newtie and every other deregulation hawk have everything to do with it.

[newspeak]

39. Yes, I will blame big business

when Little Boots allowed big businesses to police themselves, I'd say it was not in the best interest of the public. Corporations may have personhood, but it seems that they have less responsibility as we the people. To knowingly contaminate a whole towns drinking supply, while people sickened and some died, and yet lawsuits-not jail, is the remedy, then corporations do not deserve personhood or a place at the table. If we, as individuals, did as much damage as some corporations, we'd be in jail for life. They have significant influence over the government--and the government is supposed to be we the people.

I am more than willing to help my fellow Americans who are now suffering because of loss of DECENT jobs or no jobs; I am more than willing to pay taxes for public education, libraries, roads, and health of our citizens, instead of allowing corporations to even invade the public sector until everything is privatize. And as what has happened in Iraq, corporate contractors given carte blanche to our money while serving our troops bad water twice, electrocuted showers and slave labor by gun point. Do some reading. Now most of our bases' security is doled out to private contractors, some who have a general lack of respect for our soldiers.

We, as American citizens, have less representation when private corporations control the public sector--and they have even less responsibility to serve our needs over their bottom line profit.

During the Spanish American war, more soldiers died of faulty weapons and tainted meat than the spanish. It was the time of the robber barons-and what did, I believe, Armour meat, who knowingly served those soldiers tainted meat? What was their punishment? A small amount of money over the lives of those soldiers. Money does not equal life.

As long as big corporations have more power than governments, and some do, then the people will have even less representation, and without real strict regulation, our lives will be at the whim of corporations. Remember Iraq's oil was nationalized, and now, the oil companies are at the trough--we are fighting war for corporate interest, stealing resources for corporate interests--when we invaded Iraq, the first thing was to secure the oil ministry-not secure weapons, not preserve museums, not to secure nuclear material--but to secure the oil ministry. Our money (lives)is being used to secure corporate interest for some of the biggest, sociopathic interests, while at home, our infrastructure is deteriorating, our public programs are being cut when people need it the most, and our schools are suffering.

Maybe we should look at those who are making obscene amounts of money off of chaos and war. And, we the people, do not benefit from those resources--they are for the corporations to sell on the global market. That's why I get a chuckle about drilling here, like we will benefit from foreign oil companies taking our oil. It is all sold on the market--while the government gives leases to oil, mining at a usually low price. Now that lease money, is our money, it helps us.

Of course, when you're talking about a serial killer, I think we've already had a few psychopaths who put our soldiers in harms way, while decimating a whole population for fabrications.

Maybe, we as Americans, start realizing we are the government. And yet, corporate media wants you to believe that you are a separate entity, that the government is your enemy, while corporations are good, corporations have the answer. With all the blather of small government, Little Boots increased the government and deficit (89%), while giving his "base" a nice tax decrease, while pissing on the rest of us. Now if smaller taxes on the wealthy creates jobs how come Little Boots has one of the worse job creation record for the past seven presidents?

Because trickle on Reaganomics doesn't work, will never work. Keep buying into the fantasy, but the middle class and poor are losing the battle.

[laughingliberal]

45. Excellent! + a million. nt

[Joe Fields]

19. This is something that is almost never talked about.

Politicians love to take the easy way out and target large programs like social security and medicare. But what they don't want to give up are their precious little earmarks, which, as we have all seen bloat the budget drastically while creating a most inefficient use of taxpayer money.

I could not agree with you more. I would love to see a group of independent auditors go through the entire budget and be able to ferret out all of the waste and unnecessary spending. I would bet that the govt. budget could be trimmed by at least 20 percent, maybe a lot more. (where the rub comes in is what many lawmakers would deem as "unnecessary spending.")

[Bragi]

22. You sound like the people Krugman warns us of

You sound as though you have succumbed to the three decades of anti-tax anti-government propaganda that Krugman speaks of.

[northernlights]

23. you're making a big assumption here...actually several assumptions

"The simple fact remains every election is an opportunity to foster change."

You're assuming that most if not all candidates are not bought and paid for in advance or after the fact. You're also assuming that hackable, computerized voting without tracking is impermeable to fraud. You're also assuming that even with the best intentions most politicians actually think about what they are doing beyond how it will help them.

The simple fact is elections don't matter. 2000 proved that. 2004 proved it again. 2008 is proving it all over again.

[hfojvt]

38. they are tightening their belts

that is what Krugman is writing about. What is this waste that they are supposed to cut?

The wars are not really black holes either. Much of the money spent on those wars goes to a) soldiers for combat pay, and b) contractors (i.e. mostly American jobs) to provide services for the soldiers and c) military equipment manufacturers (including bullets). Before half a dozen people jump in to scoff at this, then show me a breakdown of where the spending goes.

[AlbertCat]

59. then show me a breakdown of where the spending goes.

We can't.

There is none.

There's no accounting for, say, the 8 Billion sent over to Bagdad in shrink wrapped bundles in a cargo plane, and then just handed out. I assure you it didn't go towards soldier's pay.

[demigoddess]

95. yes,but we also have a quarter of a million service people who are

now brain damaged. I can't but think that is not good for the country.

[fasttense]

49. No it is not fair.

The uber rich have gotten away with the murder of the American economy and you want to whine about getting kicked in the shins.

They, the uber wealthy and their RepubliCON minions, have deliberately, systematically and carefully destroyed a well functioning nation. And you want to tighten our belts. Let's tighten the CEO's belts 1st, then move on to those bonuses loving Wall Street tycoons who used our tax dollars to back stop their bets.

By all that is fair, the uber rich should be groveling and begging to keep a minor 10% of what they stole. Instead some people want the government, the last remaining defense we have against these capitalistic fools, to shrink and go away. But we really know why the uber rich don't like government. Because an efficient well maintained government keeps the uber rich in check. Good government keeps the corporations from turning us all into slaves.

[bvar22]

11. I support turning out the lights.

I would love to be able to see the stars again.

[w4rma]

12. Do you support more crime, too? Because most roads are lit to help prevent crime. (nt)

[bvar22]

80. Have you ever seen a satellite photo of the US at night?

Surely we can do without most of those lights and the attendant light pollution without being over run by criminals.
If we give up the Stars for a little security, have we really gained anything?

[The2ndWheel]

16. I'm for breaking up the roads as well

Roads are probably a bigger problem then the automobiles that are driven on them. From an environmental standpoint, one of the worst things we've ever done.

[northernlights]

27. that's actually one I agree with, too

it would slow traffic down here, at least. From 60+ maybe to 40, the actual speed limit on my agricultural/residential road. Unfortunately, my street is likely considered too important to let go. Still, there's a small pothole forming across from my driveway that has been left unattended...

[depakid]

28. gravel roads require maintenance too- and have other externalities involved

such as clouds of dust and increased costs for vehicle upkeep and repair.

[The2ndWheel]

30. Damn, we just can't seem to not do something

We'll force ourselves to do anything just so that we can keep doing something. Why are we so restless? We even have to maintain a gravel road. There's also a way to not have to worry about clouds of dust or the costs for vehicle upkeep.

Thermodynamics do trump economics. The more we fight that, the more restless we get.

[depakid]

33. harder on bike maintenance too

;-)

We've got it a little easier here- as we never bothered to pave a lot of 'em in the 1st place!

or build so many pesky bridges. That's what snorkels are for. Of course, unsealed roads- not to mention crossing are often impassable after heavy rains (something Americans generally don't worry about all too much. Yet.

Then again, it also helps to have more rail and decent mass transit. If you can get to it!

[pipi_k]

79. Eh...not so much...

I live on a dirt/gravel road. The Highway Department really isn't any busier here than they are in the city.

Granted, the dust isn't all that much fun, but it's only for a few months in the summer.

After the mud season they come through with graders, then lay down a layer of gravel and we're good to go for another year.


Vehicle upkeep...one thing we don't have to deal with on a dirt/gravel road is potholes, which can seriously mess with suspension/tires/alignment.

The only real pain is when it rains a whole lot and the road washes out in spots, but that can happen with a paved road as well, as the water undercuts the dirt along the side and the asphalt crumbles and collapses.

I'm pretty fond of my little dirt/gravel road, actually. :7

[pipi_k]

77. It would be nice if that was the way it worked, but...

I wish I had a dollar for every time some fool came whizzing down my dirt/gravel road at breakneck speeds.

And when I say "down" my road, I do mean down. The hill I live on is scary steep.

I'm just glad I'm like 165 feet in from the road because someday some idiot is going to wipe out on that road and find himself overturned 20 feet down in the brook across the road. Or maybe wrapped around the telephone pole in front of my house.

[northernlights]

106. you're probably right

we had some snotnose land upside down in a ditch across the street from my house last summer. Despite the witness, who admitted she was going over 60 when the snotnose cruised passed her at "at least 80" at a dangerous curve/hill combination in a no-passing zone just 1/2 mile earlier, and the upside-down sports car in the ditch, daddio insisted to the cops that "if my daughter says she wasn't speeding, she wasn't speeding." So not even a ticket :eyes:

I've almost been run down at the spot several times picking up my mail, which is 1 of 2 reasons I now have a PO box.

[pipi_k]

107. Oh wow...

Snotnose was real lucky she didn't meet someone coming head on in the other direction.

If you ever get tired of going to the post office for your mail (we finally did), I'm pretty sure you can probably get a mailbox with two "doors"...one for the mailperson to put the mail in from the road, another one on the back side so you can get the mail without being squashed.

[chrisa]

34. Unfortunately, it's a "Pitch Black" sort of thing.

Once the lights go out, the monsters come out. lol

Basically, what I'm saying is, walking in a poorly lit street is the scariest fucking thing I have ever done. It's one of those turn-around-every-five-seconds sort of things. If a criminal is going to attack, they're going to choose a poorly-lit area with little to no people nearby. Being in that situation is not very fun.

(Unless if you're Riddick, and have awesome knife skills and can see in the dark. :))

[joshcryer]

63. Colorado Springs explicitly delit the uppermiddle class side of town while leaving the lights on...

...in the poorer sections.

Disappointingly the rich side of town had most of their lights on until an activist group noticed it and complained. But indeed, even the rich side of town has their lights turned out.

[Radical Activist]

85. Perfect.

In many cities, there are poorly designed street lights that waste a lot of energy lighting the sky instead of the sidewalk.

[joshcryer]

100. Yeah, it's every other street light here, apparently they added a digital switch...

...so that when the lights are able to be paid for, they can be turned back on trivially. You can tell which street lights they are by the orange band near the top. They're off at night.

There was a big controversy that the labor required to do it would cost as much as keeping the lights on for another year, the savings really won't start coming until next year. But it was a smart move, it's several million bucks more a year. Our library system is intact, along with the public transport.

[joshcryer]

64. I thought that would be the case, but they turned out "every other" street light.

The stars are somewhat brighter, but I'd reckon hardly even one magnitude. There are still plenty of businesses who leave their lights on 24/7.

[mnhtnbb]

14. The last two sentences say it all:

So the end result of the long campaign against government is that we’ve taken a disastrously wrong turn. America is now on the unlit, unpaved road to nowhere.

[lunatica]

15. Uncle Sam is cutting his nose off to spite his face

But the politicians and the rich have theirs. Move along...

[Odin2005]

17. The Empire is falling.

[marmar]

18. It's almost like a big liquidation event......

The America's-Going-Out-of-Business Sale ...... ALL PUBLIC ASSETS MUST GO !!!!

[Starry Messenger]

21. Well put.

That's exactly what it looks like.

[Barack2theFuture]

25. end the fucking illegal occupations of foreign countries,

cut "defense" spending by 90%, RAISE taxes on the uber rich back to 90%...

get the fucking corporate money out of elections.

[Octafish]

26. And the rich get richer, So all is normal. For them.

"Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society." -- Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes

[amborin]

31. maybe this will help the nearly extinct fire flies? otherwise, k and r

[Blue_Tires]

35. I thought a few months ago the people of Colorado Springs

were all Teabaggy and happily defiant over decreased city services just to keep a few pennies on their paychecks...

[Lorien]

37. We can't afford paved roads or street lamps, but we CAN afford two wars of choice

costing over one trillion dollars and thousands of lives...and we all know why this is, but what are we going to do about it?

[mzmolly]

40. "they declare that we must preserve tax cuts for the very affluent"

which Democrats are saying this?

[valerief]

43. America: Land of Rich People Getting Richer. Uh, that's all. nt

[DeSwiss]

44. K&R

Under God, with fees and compound interest for all

From the outset, capitalism was always about the theft of the people's sustenance. It was bound to lead to the ultimate theft -- the final looting of the source of their sustenance -- nature. Now that capitalism has eaten its own seed corn, the show is just about over, with the nastiest scenes yet to play out around water, carbon energy (or anything that expends energy), soil and oxygen. For the near future however, it will continue to play out around money.

As the economy slowly implodes, money will become more volatile stuff than it already is. The value and availability of money is sure to fluctuate wildly. Most people don't have the luxury of escaping the money economy, so they will be held hostage and milked hard again by the same people who just drained them in the bailouts. As usual, the government will be right there to see that everybody plays by the rules. Those who have always benefited by capitalism's rules will benefit more. That cadre of "money professionals" which holds captive the nation's money supply, and runs things according to the rules of money, can never lose money. It writes the rules. And rewrites them when it suits the money elite's interests.

Capitalism, the Christian god, democracy, the Constitution. It's all one ball of wax, one set of rules in the American national psyche. Thus, the money masters behind the curtain will write The New Rules, the new tablets of supreme law, and call them Reform. There will be rejoicing that "the will of the people" has once again moved upon the land, and that the democracy's scripture has once again been delivered by the unseen hand of God.

~ http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2010/07/waltzing.html">Joe Bageant, "Waltzing at the Doomsday Ball"

[Truth2Tell]

117. the nastiest scenes

yet to play out around water, carbon energy (or anything that expends energy), soil and oxygen

mark that.

[katty]

46. right Krug-America's log line: In Greed We Trust

[defendandprotect]

47. Hey -- but we have the finest MIC money can buy ... what else could Americans possibly want????

[Stuart G]

55. Very very sad...nt

[joshcryer]

61. There's a huge difference between local and federal government.

If someone is working a 40 hour a week job and they have three cars, federal government isn't going to feel squat from that person selling two of their cars. Local government is going to see a 2/3rd reduction in funds from them.

The federal government cannot magically, through taxation, fix this. Indeed, if the federal government was set on bailing out local government, we'd be truly fucked. Local communities cannot depend on the federal government for things like fire prevention and lighting and roadwork. (Obviously there are exceptions such as in times of emergency and the interstate system, etc. By and large I am saying that if a local government is not paying its bills in a fiscally responsible way, federal government should not jump in and bail them out.)

[mdmc]

62. ..

[disidoro01]

81. well

Screw it, we should just bitch and lament the monsters of yesteryear. How about you pull up your panties and call YOUR Representatives in congress and let them know how you feel. Better yet, get together a few thousand of your closest friends to do it. This thread is exactly why things don't change. Bitch about Reagan? I just checked and that dude has been out of office for like 22 years. How about calling up Schumer and starting a letter campaign to make sure the upper 2% are taxed appropriately. I guarantee that id even 5 million people jumped on our Reps, more things would be done. I got news for people, they really aren't Democrats or Republicans, they are politicians and if you put them on a continuum I bet we'd see they really aren't that far apart.
For the person who said that much of the money for the war went to combat pay, I need to see that source because there is no way that's even remotely close.

[Desertrose]

82. But we still gots enuff for wars!

Yippee.

[Radical Activist]

83. More cities should turn off 1/3 of their street lights.

Having some street lights is OK, but they're often too much. They're often a waste of energy and block out the stars.

[TBF]

89. Stars?

You've never been to Houston I take it. We have pollution, not stars.

[Radical Activist]

109. Houston is one of (if not the post) air polluted cities in America.

It's funny that conservatives are pointing to it as an example of what wonderful things will happen to cities that end all regulation and adopt other pro-corporate policies.

[joshcryer]

101. Wouldn't have that significant of an impact. We turned off 1/2 here.

Stars are marginally brighter, but not significantly so. People in neighborhoods keep their porch lights on (they always did but it's more apparent now), and businesses haven't changed their behavior (they should realize that ponying up for a few bucks of lighting could save them a lot of money, but I guess the risk is too great for burglaries from their POV).

[skepticscott]

84. Well, sorry, Paul

but the US government IS cash-strapped. I know it isn't permitted to say that among the highbrow class of economists, but the US government has no more cash. It has the ability (for the time being) to borrow money, but that is not at all the same thing, especially if, as you say we should, we want to protect our children's future.

[misterkhalil]

91. People don't think about the future

Unfortunately, taxes must be increased, mainly from the those with tons of moolah to begin with. Or we could just sit in an ever-deeper deficit. You know, I have a feeling that when a Republican raises taxes it is all of the sudden a "revenue enhancement" and not a "tax hike" (see Reagan for an excellent example).

[skepticscott]

102. No, they don't

and politicians don't get elected by talking about things too far in the future, or by advocating some hardship now to forestall even worse hardship down the line. They just keep kicking the can a few years down the road, and hope that the economy will magically boom and solve all their problems for them.

The deep and underlying problem is a feeling of need or entitlement among many segments of society to spend money that they not only don't have, but can't be sure they will ever have.

[Cherchez la Femme]

86. Post in wrong place, sorry

[npk]

93. When the middle class goes so goes America

With about 2 % of the population controlling over 80% of the wealth in this country it won't be too much longer before the middle class is a distant memory. And without a strong middle class to buy the goods and services that the wealthy class sells, the wealthy class will soon find their money worthless. Just remember that a dollar bill is just a piece of paper. It's only worth a dollar if somebody assigns it value.

[Major Hogwash]

103. We aren't worth saving, they can get higher rates of interest on their money elsewhere

If not in Europe, then in Russia.
If not in Russia, then in China.
If not in China, then in India.

And so on and so on.

[killbotfactory]

104. Colorado Springs is run by conservatives and their problems are because of ideology

The people in charge there don't want to pay for any government services out of principle.

[joshcryer]

128. Uh, OK.

[PADemD]

108. Wind and Solar Street Lights

This would solve the problem:

http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2008/01/wind_and_solar_powered_streetlights_at_panasonic_japan.html

[depakid]

111. Commie liberal plot!

[Jefferson23]

110. By all means, don't raise taxes on the wealthy....bad idea.

:sarcasm:

[MountainLaurel]

115. Between this

And the article how jurisdictions are turning paved roads to gravel, we truly are moving into the 19th century.

[scentopine]

116. Rich getting richer? Fewer jobs? More pollution? More war? Well then...

a centrist isn't far behind. Tracking a centrist is easy. They leave the largest footprint on the planet.

[wial]

120. so long as a few people are safeq

who cares what happens to the rabble? There have always been lots of poor. Who cares if industrial capitalism makes a whole lot more of that? We couldn't keep peoples' noses to the grindstone without the fear of starvation, so we have to have an underclass, and we have to make sure everyone else thinks they owe fealty to us by getting them to believe they are us.

Actually, sadly, the rich don't want the money. They'd much rather live in a world with a bit less poverty and fear so they could enjoy life more. It's only the bankers, accountants and power mad ideologues who do this to us. That and the mass nightmare of the PR/advertising industry. And the boys in the military. And the religious fanatics so easily herded ...

sigh.

[eyewall]

127. FDR had courage and vision

he did what America needed to remain an inspiration to the world. He made the promise of opportunity real.The wealthy bankers and industrialists hated him. They thought of themselves as the Kings of America. They're back today with the same disparity of income and taxes that existed before FDR. Gilded Age economics. The Kings of America should hate the Democrats, but they don't. They're not threatened by the politics of today. That's the Democrats biggest failing. While America is crumbling, people should take note that the wealthy have grown ENORMOUSLY wealthier in the last ten years. It's how this Gilded Age thingy works.

[quaker bill]

130. Cutting makes no sense

We are still the largest and richest economy on the planet. We can in fact "afford" whatever we choose to afford. We simply have to collect the revenue and spend it. Krugman is correct, giving tax breaks to those who are already wealthy will mean that these dollars join the trillions in accumulated wealth and profits held by a few that is currently "sitting on the sidelines" not creating jobs, businesses, salaries, and benefits.

Going into business is a risk. If you already have massive wealth, why bother? People go into business and grow their businesses to become wealthy, they do not do it because they are already wealthy and need something to do with their time. That is what yachts and resort condos are for. Progressive taxation and inheritance taxes have the effect of resetting the bar and making and acquisition of massive wealth a massive effort. They make the rich more productive, to the extent that is possible.