MSNBC reporting Ted Stevens was on plane that crashed in Alaska

[proud2BlibKansan]

Still waiting for confirmation. Small plane reportedly crashed late last night. Survivors unknown at this time.

[Doctor_J]

1. Was he about to spill some beans

about Palin or the Bushes?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

3. obviously

[no limit]

5. ...

[meegbear]

6. -1

[City of Mills]

8. He was rumored to have info on the upcoming alien invasion

The lizard people got to him.

[MajorChode]

34. Government EMP pulse

Obviously.

[MineralMan]

18. -100

[Rosa Luxemburg]

2. small plane - how convenient

[no limit]

10. Please tell me you are messing with us and that you aren't this fucking nuts.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

12. Que?

[no limit]

14. el loco

[Kalyke]

13. You know - conspiracies can and do happen.

The human brain is capable of a wide-range of emotions: one can feel both sad for the loss of human life, while simultaneously considering the possibility that the life was taken as a result of foul play.

Look, yet another politician or journalist who may have had a motive to tell all he knew or react positively for the American worker/public over the corporations may have been killed in a small plane crash just before that could happen.

To wit:

Paul Wellstone
Mel Carnahan
JFK, Jr.
Ronald H. Brown
Bush IT expert Mike Connell


Just to name a few.

[no limit]

17. Yes, clearly. Ted Stevens, the old guy that thinks the internet is a series of tubes...

who hasn't been in the senate for years, was involved in some huge conspiracy that would take down the US government if exposed and needed to be silenced.

You guys are seriously nucking futs.

[Maru Kitteh]

24. +1000

"Yes, clearly. Ted Stevens, the old guy that thinks the internet is a series of tubes...

who hasn't been in the senate for years, was involved in some huge conspiracy that would take down the US government if exposed and needed to be silenced."



Small planes crash more often than large ones, by far.
They are generally not well publicized unless they carry celebrity, powerful or wealthy cargo.
Politicians spend a LOT of time on planes, increasing their chances of dying in one with each journey.

It is the juvenile or somewhat disturbed mind that immediately ignores logic and instead jumps to the magic of conspiracy theories. It is the normal course of action to investigate accidents to make certain they are as they appear, and for good reason. The mind inclined to magic will dismiss careful, science-based findings if they do not fit the magical conspiracy scenario.

Conspiracy theories are a religion.

[Kalyke]

49. "Conspiracy theories" are not, however, a code name of inaccurate theories, either.

The word conspiracy means "a crime or covert action involving more than one person."

The word theory means "a guess, educated or otherwise, regarding how events occur (a hypothesis is an EDUCATED guess, btw)."

Therefore, 9/11 was a conspiracy theory. The assassinations of the Archduke Ferdinand and Julius Caeser were conspiracy theories. The Reichstag Fire was a conspiracy theory.... and so on.

It's not a religion, Maru, it's two words that can and do happen.

[malaise]

27. There was a Defense Contractor on that aircraft

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8913659

[no limit]

29. Ahh I see, so we needed to silence the CEO of a Dutch defense contractor

and did it using our super secret weather machines that made conditions for flying extremely difficult. I always knew the Dutch were up to something.

[elehhhhna]

33. duh. they keep his offshore account lubricated. would be a surprise if his plane

DIDN'T have a def contractor.

[no limit]

57. Hey, look. The defense contractor survived. Obama sure sucks at taking out targets

[Kalyke]

48. Yes, clearly, you didn't read my post.

I never said he was involved with a conspiracy. I said it's not outside of the realm of cognizant thinking that the human mind might jump to that theory since there have been so many aerial mishaps of a similar nature.

I also believe the original poster of this "theory" was simply pointing that out and making somewhat "light" of the situation considering that Stevens probably doesn't fit that category (unless he was going to release some bombshell of information we're not aware of).

And name-calling isn't a progressive position. But, then again, neither is misunderstanding posts. :eyes:

[onenote]

20. Small plane crashes in Alaska are, unfortunately, a fact of life

There are a whole lot of small plane crashes every year. The fact that, on occasion, a famous person dies in one doesn't make every small plane crash involving a famous person suspect. And flying in small planes in Alaska is particularly hazardous. I couldn't find more recent data, but between 1990 and 1999 there were around 900 commuter/air tax crashes in the US, of which nearly 40 percent occurred in Alaska.

[MajorChode]

42. There were two in just the week prior

The weather is notoriously bad and unpredictable. Icing conditions are possible year round. Difficult terrain.

[MajorChode]

35. Government EMP weapon

Obviously.

:tinfoilhat:

[MineralMan]

19. Oh...Jebus! Can't you wait at least a day before starting that crap?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

41. you're no fun!

[Blue_In_AK]

50. People die in small planes in Alaska all the time.

I've known several personally. No conspiracy here.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

52. all the time?

[Blue_In_AK]

54. All the time.

Tragically, I heard this morning that the pilot killed in this crash was the brother, I believe, of one of the pilots killed in the C-17 crash here a couple weeks ago before the air show. although I haven't been able to find a link to that. A plane also crashed on Knik Glacier just day before yesterday leaving several people stranded, although no one was killed.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38460660/

http://www.adn.com/2010/08/09/1402600/rescue-underway-for-5-people-on.html

[Blue_In_AK]

58. A correction.

It was the pilot's son-in-law who died in the C-17 crash. Tonight it was reported on the news that a helicopter went down trying to rescue the people out on the glacier. No one was injured, but there are now 12 people out there needing to be rescued in blizzard-like conditions, 75-mph winds and whiteout.

Only in Alaska.

[LiberalFighter]

4. If he was I hope he had a retribution plan.

[malaise]

7. They're late

http://news.google.com/news/search?aq=f&pz=1&cf=all&ned=us&hl=en&q=plane+crash+alaska

GEM$NBC also suggests that the former head of NASA, Sean O'keefe, was on board.

add

[yellowcanine]

9. Well I, for one, would miss Ted Stevens. Internet tubes and all.

Such a fun guy to have on the other team.

[madinmaryland]

11. Here is a link from the Anchorage Daily News --

Severe weather has hampered the rescue operation for eight people believed to be on board a GCI-owned aircraft that crashed near Dillingham on Monday night with possible fatalities, according to state and federal officials.

The Alaska Air National Guard was called to the area about 20 miles north of Dillingham at about 7 p.m. after a passing aircraft saw the wreckage, spokesman Maj. Guy Hayes said. Eight people were reported to be on board the aircraft, though their status wasn't immediately known, he said. There were possible fatalities, he said.

National Transportation Safety Board reported that it will send a "Go Team" from Washington, D.C., to Dillingham to investigate the crash. The teams can consist of up to a dozen or more specialists from the board's headquarters staff and are responsible for investigating major cases -- they are the arm that responds to "catastrophic airline crash sites" -- for the board, according to the NTSB.

The National Guard said an HC-130 and HH-60 helicopter were encountering inclement weather on the way and had difficultly navigating through Lake Clark Pass. They were still en route to the scene at about 11:30 p.m. and expected to arrive after midnight.

About five good Samaritans were already on scene helping the victims of the plane crash, Hayes said.

Read more: http://www.adn.com/2010/08/09/1402798/plane-with-8-on-board-crashes.html

It is believed Ted Stevens was on board.

[TheCowsCameHome]

15. He had to fly, the bridge wasn't finished.

[malaise]

16. Govt officials now say that

Stevens is 'believed' to be in the plane crash

[Peace Patriot]

21. There is a law requiring a federal investigation and a PUBLIC HEARING when a U.S. Senator

is killed. I first learned of this law in connection with Senator Paul Wellstone's plane crash (because no public hearing was ever held). I don't know if it applies to ex-Senators. (I also don't know if it applies to Congresspersons. Probably it does. Not sure.)

If Ted Stevens died in this crash, I would hope that a public hearing will be held about it, even if the law does not require it. The circumstances of the Wellstone plane crash were highly suspicious, including the arrival of FBI agents on a time-line that was not possible, possible tampering with or removal of evidence from the crash scene, manipulation of news about the weather, facts that strongly pointed away from accident caused by weather and violation of the law requiring a public hearing. There was also the context of Paul Wellstone's pledge to lead the fight in the Senate against the Iraq War.

We should never let this happen again--that a political death in these circumstances is not aired in public and all evidence disclosed. And we should damn well go back and RE-investigate the Wellstone plane crash with a PUBLIC airing of the evidence, and any other such events. I don't know about other Americans, but I am damn sick of these failures of public disclosure--not to mention suspicious activities and coverups--when there are possible political motives for a death or deaths.

[onenote]

28. Never heard of such a law. Think you are mistaken

Not sure when you think this law was enacted, but in 30 plus years of working in DC on Hill-related matters, I've never heard of such a thing. There is not a chance in the world that such a law would only apply to Senators (you really think the House would vote on a law that calls for an investigation into the death of a Senator, but into the death of a member of the House?). I don't remember (and I think I would) any special "federal investigation and public hearing" regarding Paul Gillmor's accidental death a few years ago. Since 1987, ten Senators have died while in office, eight from illness, two in plane crashes (Heinz and Wellstone). Probably around 40 or so members of the House have died while in office in that same time period, the vast majority from illness (Gillmor and Sonny Bono are the only two accidental deaths I can think of in recent years).

[MajorChode]

44. I've never heard of such a thing either

Sounds a bit far fetched. The poster was repeating bad information that had already been debunked anyway. The Wellstone crash was caused by two pilots who should never have been in the front of that plane to start with. The agents in question explained how and when they got the call, how much time it took them to get there, and everything fit within reasonable timelines. Some people hear something false once and they never let go of it because it fits what they want to believe. Commercial pilots in small planes have one of the most dangerous jobs in the US and the Stevens crash is just one more example out of many.

[Peace Patriot]

53. National Transportation Safety Board policy says that...

...they "generally" hold public hearings "with regard to a major accident in which there is wide and sustained public interest."

Can't think of anything wider or of more public interest than the Wellstone plane crash, with nearly 70% of the people of Minnesota believing there was foul play by the G.O.P. (public opinion poll at the time).

The above quotation of NTSB policy is from "An American Assassination," a book that provides well-documented detail on the Wellstone assassination.* Given the high profile nature of this case, the plethora of suspicious circumstances and the political context, it is astonishing and an outrage that there was no public hearing. But I cannot find my source on what I thought was a law that required it in the case of accidental death of a senator. I thought it was this book. Can't find it in the book. I may be mistaken as to where I read it, or mistaken altogether on this point.

------------------

*Summary of the book here
http://www.amazon.com/American-Assassination-Strange-Senator-Wellstone/dp/0975276301

It is well worth reading.

[MajorChode]

61. Feltzer is a complete nutbag

He claims all sorts of truly nutty shit like EMP weapons and other various bullshit. He also got numerous facts just plain wrong and posted all sorts of other misleading information. And you actually say his book is "well worth reading"? It isn't fit to use as toilet paper.

No thanks.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. He's not a senator anymore

[tiptoe]

56. +1,000,000 nt

[Nye Bevan]

22. What's with "small plane" conspiracy theories anyway?

This place went nuts when Wellstone's plane went down in bad weather, too.

If shady operatives wanted to kill someone wouldn't it be easier to stage what looked like a random shooting? Or arrange a car crash? So that as few people as possible would be involved in the plot?

[no limit]

30. Don't you know? The government uses super secret weather machines

to take down people they need to silence. Such as this old ex-senator that hasn't been in the senate for years and thinks the internet is a series of tubes. God only knows what he knew.

How is this not making sense to you?

[MajorChode]

36. You are so full of it

Everyone knows they have a portable EMP machine they use for such things.

:tinfoilhat:

[no limit]

37. That is the first thing that came to mind. But wouldn't such an EMP machine need to be on a plane?

taking down itself with it?

Come on brah, think this through. It was a super secret weather machine.

[MajorChode]

40. They have air based and ground based models

It's all over the interwebs.

[whopis01]

45. You build the EMP machine out of ice - after the crash it melts leaving no evidence. n/t

[no limit]

46. That might be a good option until the super secret invisible cloak is finished

The EMP still gives you the problem of the investigators on the ground being able to see that all the electronics were fried. But since the entire NTSB workforce is on the government payroll we know that isn't a problem.

[whopis01]

47. I heard that the super secret invisible cloak was already finished

but they forgot where they put it and no one can find it anymore.

[MajorChode]

59. Those sneaky bastards!

[slampoet]

32. Car crashes and shootings are investigated by locals, Plane crashes are investigated by the FEDS

That's how you get fewer people involved.

Also, you know maybe dozens of people who can detect problems with a car.

The pool of airline mechs who can spot sabotage is much much smaller

[no limit]

38. Well ofcourse. Eveyone knows Obama directed the NTSB to cover this up

[MajorChode]

39. You're kidding, yes?

With a car crash you are lucky if you have one cop doing the investigation and primarily he's just measuring skid marks for the insurance companies. If it's a high profile crash, you'd have the NTSB involved, which is the same for a plane crash.

With an aircraft you still have locals, the FAA, and the NTSB all participating in the investigation. Many times you also have reps from the aircraft manufacturer and the airline (if one is involved). The FAA accident investigators are even unionized. Anyone who thinks the gov can pull off some sort of conspiracy in regards to aircraft crashes has been watching too many movies.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[malaise]

25. Five of nine passengers are dead n/t

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

26. "Walk into the tubes..."

[MajorChode]

43. The plane was a Dehavilland DHC-3

I have all of 2 hours in my log book in one of these.

http://ih3.redbubble.net/work.3837875.2.flat,550x550,075,f.mechanical-bird-dehavilland-dhc-3-turbine-single-otter.jpg

[SoCalDem]

51. I'm sure Ted's friends & family are devastated.. Condolences to them

That said, small plane crashes in Alaska are quite common. It's too bad the pilot decided to fly that flight, if the weather was inclement.

I am glad that the father-son duo both survived.,

[jmowreader]

55. It's sad when anyone dies in a plane crash

I do, however, feel a little sadder for the two people sitting in the front seats who had to deliver pizzas when they weren't flying if they wanted to have money for their rent.

[onenote]

60. I just found out that one of the victims of the crash was someone I knew

Over the years, I've worked with a number of Stevens' staffers -- either while they were on staff or later when they represented the same clients I did (but from the other side of the political fence). I was worrying that one of them might have been on the plane. I just found out that one was -- 20 years ago I worked at the same place as his wife, in fact. They have a 12 year old. Its very very sad.

I know its hard for some DUers to understand or accept, but if you work in Washington on policy matters, you develop relationships with people that transcend your personal politics.