Who hear honestly believes that Obama is as bad a bush*?

[Javaman]

Poll question: Who hear honestly believes that Obama is as bad a bush*?

I'm really getting sick of this crap. So let's put it to a test.

I'll be the first. I DO NOT equate the two people as the same.

[Javaman]

1. To the mods: I know this is probably going to get locked but I just couldn't take it anymore. nt

[Erose999]

26. I would say he's 40% as bad as Bush. I think the continuum of evil would look like this...

Pure Evil
-10: KKKarl Rove, Dickless Cheney, Lush Rimjob, Britefart, Fred Phelps
-8: Bohener, Mc Chinless, Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, Paulbot Jr. G. Felon Liddy
Mann Coulter, Ayn Rand, George W. Bush

Evil:
-6: Chuck Norris, The Jonas Brothers, Paulbot Sr., Hannitard, Johnny Ramone
-4: Billo, Mitt Romney, the Blue Dogs, Nixon, Reagan

Purgatory

-2: Barry Goldwater, Ike, William Buckley, Gerald Ford

0: Neutral

+2: Bill Ayers, Sir Elton, the rest of the Dead Kennedys (excluding Jello Biafra)
Zell Miller, Barack Obama

Relative benevolence

+4: Roy Barnes, Jesse Jackson, LBJ,
+6: Bill Clinton, James Carville, most Dems in Congress, Robert Byrd

Benevolence

+8: Pelosi, Al Gore, John/Bobby/Ted Kennedy, Rachel Maddow, John Steinbeck.
+10: W.E.B. Du Bois, Michel Foucault, Saul Alinsky, Jello Biafra,
Joey Ramone, Jimmy Carter.

[asdjrocky]

47. Extra credit for Jello Biafra! nt

[Erose999]

55. Jello for prez!!

[asdjrocky]

56. Or at least Mayor!

:hi:

[hfojvt]

54. you put Clinton ahead of Jesse?

:wtf: Are you under 30 or something?

[cliffordu]

71. Where's Bukowski??

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. Comparing Obama to Bush is actually against DU rules.

It's a troll statement.

[Javaman]

7. I know. Some clod I have been debating on another thread made the

statement that many people here believe that.

I just couldn't take it anymore.

Such stupidity.

[geek tragedy]

53. Well, 15% of the site at the very least does agree with that.

Troubling, no?

[liberal N proud]

10. There have been a lot of posts that dance around that rule of late

There have been far too many (IMO) post that are negative to Obama and the Democrats posted here under the guise of criticism.

The trolls are getting craftier.

[Forkboy]

67. Worried, or just a toadie?

[Ian David]

3. President Obama is moving too slowly, but in the right direction.

Compare that to Bush or McCain/Palin who would be taking us in the WRONG direction.

[walldude]

32. See this is where there is a problem... Obama is not always moving in the right

direction. And anyone who dares to say that is called a fucking retard or whatever. Or told they are comparing Obama to Bush. It's bullshit. And bullshit can't be debated. It's a cheap shitty attempt to silence people who have a perfectly valid point of view.

[Spheric]

61. We have not changed directions under Obama. That's the problem. /nt

[zipplewrath]

4. It's a hyperbolic statement, typically in a context

Getting all bent out of shape about it is merely avoiding the underlying criticism.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

5. Of course they are not the same

Obama really sucks but so would almost anyone else because anyone who gets elected President will ultimately be a defender of a seriously fucked up status quo.

In that one sense Obama is like Bush... when push comes to shove they both support a FUBAR system.

But Obama seeks positive changes within that system, Bush sought negative changes within the system.

[phantom power]

6. I assume that weird phrase is a straw-man replacement...

for the more defensible, and therefore more threatening, statement that Obama's policies are frequently disappointingly-similar, or insufficiently different, to GOP policies.

[SargeUNN]

8. just another case of right wing propaganda bought by the left

sadly they own the airwaves and even the left is finding themselves buying the crap. That is why we need to not subscribe to knee jerk reactions but use thoughtfulness and clarity.

[TreasonousBastard]

9. Obama may be flawed, as all Presidents are, but anyone who says he's as bad as...

the Shrub is either an infiltrating troll or an idiot.

Neither have any place around here.

[Amaril]

11. And yet.........

.....4 people have voted "yes".

Sad to see that the bitterness runs that deep with some.

[kiva]

13. I suspect the reason the number is only four

is that people have been tombstoned in the past for their votes on polls.

[Radical Activist]

12. It's a line for professional pundits and email "action alert" writers

who substitute sensationalism for substance. Not even close.

[SwampG8r]

14. tombstone trap

one answer will probably bring a tombstone
it has happened before i seem to recall

[Javaman]

15. You don't have to respond, you can just vote. and it appears as if

my point is proving correct. That gibbs was colossally wrong in his statement, just from this small sample.

[geek tragedy]

16. Still fairly early. Also, typo in your title. hear=here

[LoZoccolo]

19. People have been tombstoned and outed for their votes in polls. n/t

[Javaman]

21. I believe your responce speaks volumes. tootles. nt

[LoZoccolo]

22. It's against the rules to equate Obama and Bush*, and I like it that way. n/t

[spoony]

41. Of course you do, it keeps you from having to defend Bush's policies

wrapped up in a new label.

[geek tragedy]

51. No, we just don't like the leftwing equivalent of Birtherism

polluting this site.

[Kalun D]

72. That Bar You've Set There

It can't go any lower.

[SwampG8r]

25. again tombstone trap

its happened before and here it is again
all votes in polls must be confirmed by the voter and are recorded in the database
also please do not infer my thoughts as to the poll by the fact that i am noting this is a tombstone trap
i have made no response as to your question and find it rather odd you are willing to read one into that lack

[Turborama]

62. 21 so far who don't care if it is or isn't a "tombstone trap"

At least 21 DUer's think Obama = Bush. There's probably a lot more, considering a number of DUers would have been scared off by your warnings.

I don't think 21 is a small number. Personally, I think they should be brave enough to come out and explain themselves instead of voting anonymously.

[SwampG8r]

70. i wasnt trying to "scare anyone off with warnings"

all i am doing here is stating what this is
a poorly constructed tombstone trap
no where on here have i stated a position in re bush = obama so i will now to eliminate the snark of those i agree with
they are not equal
they have significant differences
but my opinion does not alter the fact this is a tombstone trap and the 21 DUers who voted as they did could and i must stress could be TSed for their votes
it has happened before

[Turborama]

74. 23 now. Whether or not you intended to scare people off, there's a strong likelihood

the warnings would have scared off some from voting in case they were going to be TS'd.

On my part, I should have added 'there is a strong likelihood*' to this: "There's probably a lot more, considering * a number of DUers would have been scared off by your warnings" and I apologize for not doing so.

Having said that, it is also your opinion that it is a TS trap, by the way. Just because it has happened on another poll does not mean it is guaranteed people will be TS'd for their votes in this one. Maybe you should have said, for example, "This could be a tombstone trap" like you did jut now at the end of the post I'm replying to?

"all i am doing here is stating what this is a poorly constructed tombstone trap"

"this is a tombstone trap and the 21 DUers who voted as they did could and i must stress could be TSed for their votes"

SwampG8r Wed Aug-11-10 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
14. tombstone trap

one answer will probably bring a tombstone
it has happened before i seem to recall

SwampG8r (1000+ posts) Wed Aug-11-10 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #15
25. again tombstone trap

its happened before and here it is again
all votes in polls must be confirmed by the voter and are recorded in the database
also please do not infer my thoughts as to the poll by the fact that i am noting this is a tombstone trap
i have made no response as to your question and find it rather odd you are willing to read one into that lack

(edited to fix formatting error)

[SwampG8r]

75. read my sig line

and you will see i have taken steps previously to make sure my posts are labeled as my opinion only
im sure you missed it down there but there is a disclaimer

[Turborama]

76. Thanks for pointing it out

Have you tried putting it in caps and using bold?

I kid... I kid. ;-)

[SwampG8r]

77. the reactions i get maybe i should

[TreasonousBastard]

38. Here's a tip-- the Admins can see who voted and how they voted...

so a response isn't needed for a tombstone. It's happened before, and it could happen now.

I see a lock and a cleanup any minute now.

(You don't really think they would run a site as contentious as this and not have back doors to see who could be causing trouble, do you?)

[Javaman]

60. ...

still not locked. and it appears as if people voted yes and have not been banned. While I don't agree with them, they are allow to their own opinion.

[geek tragedy]

17. That was for Holocaust denial.

Obama=Bush is stupid and offensive, but Holocaust denial is evil, and I'm glad Skinner purged those people.

[AlabamaLibrul]

18. Two-fer : Tombstone trap and push poll, giving only two diametrically opposed options with no

in-between for what I would suggest some really feel, that is, that members of the WH has thrown those on the left under the bus multiple times, and that the President's rhetoric and political muscle is not behind truly progressive policies.

More of the same? In some instances, such as Afghanistan, quite literally *more* of the same, and if the Catfood Commission gets their way, a result that has negative effects just as Bush's plan to privatize SS would have.

Equal to Bush? Nah. But the rhetoric and actions of candidate Barack Obama and President Barack Obama leave a vast expanse of ground between them.

[spoony]

40. Yep, that's why there are only two extremes and zero nuance.

And it's a laughable attempt at that.

[geek tragedy]

52. You've said on several occasions that Obama=Bush, so now

why are you rejecting that as a poll option?

[Kalun D]

73. Because

there are many shades of grey

and some individual cases where Obama is exactly like Bush

Like can you say Gitmo?

But a poll like this makes you grade overall.

[provis99]

20. Obama is amazingly better than Bush.

But the DLC crowd on DU say we think Obam=Bush because Gibbs says so. Seriously, the freepers are less insulting to leftists than the DLC types on DU are.

[Gormy Cuss]

43. +1

Not just because Gibbs said so, because they seem to believe that any dissent is going to weaken the party and the administration.

[tridim]

23. They're absolute polar opposites in every way.

[Nye Bevan]

59. except that they have identical stances on gay marriage.

Obama is far, far superior to Bush in almost every way. On gay rights, however, he is a little bit better than Bush, but not much.

[inna]

24. this is explicitly against the rules and should be locked

pretty low, in my opinion

[DevonRex]

34. Why is asking a question against the rules?

[geek tragedy]

48. Why? The more the"Bush=Obama" trolls expose themselves

for what they are, the better.

People who maintain that Bush=Obama deserve no respect here.

[NYC Liberal]

27. Anyone who thinks that is detached from reality.

No matter who they are.

[Mac1949]

28. He's not as bad as Bush on most things, but he's no Leftist.

In fact, he's barely even a centrist if you look at his attitudes on domestic spying, etc. Part of the problem is we expect too much of him, both because of his own positions and because a certain amount of kowtowing to the right is part of his style (trying to be the president of "all the people".) That said, overall he is superior to Bush, and with any luck and a lot of hard work next time we'll get someone even better- maybe a left-centrist. So I view Obama as an acceptable transition.
And it helps that Michele is the best First Lady since Eleanor Roosevelt.

[Jello Biafra]

29. Thanks for the Benevolent vote....LOL...

I like Barack as a person but honestly, from a policy standpoint, at times, I think this is Bush's third term. And Barack has no say on a lot of the policy making IMO.

[BlueIdaho]

30. In under the wire!

Try watching some video of Bush explaining where he plans on take this country.

Not. Even. Close.

[HughBeaumont]

31. I don't think ANY president is as bad as Bewsh II was. Not even Reagan or Harding.

The guy was SO obviously unqualified to run the country, so obviously a puppet for Cheney, Inc.

[Brickbat]

33. One was a president who vowed to work against my interests, and did so. The other was one who, it

seemed, would either support my interests or benignly neglect them, and has turned out to work against them as well.

I know which pisses me off more, that's for damn sure.

[Subdivisions]

35. It's where they are similar that I have a problem. But is Obama as bad as bush?

No! He's not!

[Electric Monk]

36. Hear? Really? That's more than a typo.

ibtl

[Touchdown]

37. ...

[Hell Hath No Fury]

39. You need a third option --

"Yes he is as bad as Bush on too many issues".

That would be my choice. On civil liberties and the wars he certainly is as bad as Bush ever was.

[scheming daemons]

42. Mr. Gibbs (rightly) directed his comments at 14% of DU.

...

[Johonny]

49. they are a loud percentage though

:)

[Forkboy]

68. A 14% you shouldn't worry your pretty little head over.

What harm could that wimpy 14% do?

Exactly!

Stand strong, Patriot! :thumbsup:

[closeupready]

44. selfdelete

selfdelete

[Soylent Brice]

45. i do not equate Obama with Bush.

i disagree with how certain things are being handled.
i am glad to see how a lot of things are being handled.

things can get better, but they won't if everyone just praises the fuck out of everything that happens. if we're about to drive into a ditch it's okay to have back seat drivers informing the driver "hey, you're about to drive into a ditch."

pretty simple.

[joeybee12]

46. Many of his policies are too similar to Bush's..thats' the gripe, and a legit one, IMHO...

...but they're not the same person by a long shot.

[Bluebear]

50. Yeah, who "hear"?

:silly:

[Iggo]

57. I just think his spokesman said something supremely stupid.

And now he has to eat it.

[hiphopnation]

58. you're oversimplifying

In fact, the whole meme is an over simplification. I love the responses, "If you think Bush=Obama, then you need to see a psychiatrist." Couldn't even take the time to type out "is the same as," just the equal sign. There is absolutely zero nuance in the current discussion, but maybe that's my fault for coming to DU looking for nuance.

There is something acerbically idiotic in making broad-brush claims that "OBAMA=BUSH!11!!!!" Conversely, screaming "NO HE DOESN'T!11!!!" does not amount to an effective counter to the idiocy.

It is, in my opinion, a legitimate exercise to look at some of the policies and procedures enacted by the prior administration and compare how those policies and procedures are faring in the current administration. If some of the more odious ones are still seeing the light of day and, indeed, are being expanded and improved, that is alarming and deserving of the attention of the entire progressive community. There is no cognitive dissonance in drawing comparisons, where fair comparisons have merit. Indeed, dismissing the comparisons out of hand is intellectually dishonest and a position that any person committed to progressive politics should take issue with.

But to engage in vagaries and inanities and broad-swipe Rovian oversimplification (not saying you yourself are doing this, just that this is the flavor of the whole "debate," at the moment) is - or should be - beneath the community that I know to identify with most closely: progressives.

[TheKentuckian]

63. Are you talking a specific area or in general?

I say better than Bush but potentially more dangerous because of some crap policy positions and commitment to the failed status quo while wearing the liberal mantle.

[saltpoint]

64. Our grandchildren's grandchildren should be alive

now to vote in this poll.

I think they'd be able to make some very clear distinctions between the two, a comparison that would wildly favor Barack Obama.

It is a different America now in the regard of our international allies, as they perceive Obama to be not only vastly superior to his predecessor but refreshing and inspiring in his own right.

Let's be sure the two demographic groups I've mentioned are somehow included in the polling sampling.

[tomm2thumbs]

65. maybe the poll should ask 'who stood & fought harder for what they believe'

might be a little more interesting - a lot of the complaints I hear are that the White House isn't fighting hard enough for the ideals that the Democratic Party believes are important, not that they don't believe the ideals are the correct and proper position to be taking

Could be like wrestling- people want to see the other guy slammed to the floor, even if it is just pretend

[Forkboy]

69. Centrists fought for exactly what they believe in.

[krabigirl]

66. Sigh. No, they aren't the same. Many of the policies are, that's all.