Why the US keeps minting coins people hate and won't use (BBC)

[eppur_se_muova]

By Daniel Nasaw
BBC News, Washington

In hidden vaults across the country, the US government is building a stockpile of $1 coins. The hoard has topped $1.1bn - imagine a stack of coins reaching almost seven times higher than the International Space Station - and the piles have grown so large the US Federal Reserve is running out of storage space.

Americans won't use the coins, preferring $1 notes. But the US keeps minting them anyway, and the Fed estimates it already has enough $1 coins to last the next 10 years.
***
Yet the piles have continued to grow because the law requires the US Mint to issue four new presidential coins each year even if most of the previous year's coins remain in government vaults.
***
US officials and coin experts note that Australia, Britain, Canada and Japan have successfully introduced coins in similar denominations, but only after phasing out paper notes.
***
Because a coin can last four decades while a note lasts only a few years, replacing the dollar bill with the coin could save the US $500m to $700m per year in printing and paper costs.
***
more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10783019




I prefer dollar coins for paying tolls -- no chance of the wind blowing them away. Just store a stack of them in the ash tray or cup holder. And I already keep $1 bills in my pocket, like coins, so I don't have to keep getting my wallet out.

When vending machines accept dollar coins, those unreliable dollar bill readers will be history in a hurry. :)

[Romulox]

1. The last dollar coins were the same size as quarters. No mystery why they were hated. nt

[End Of The Road]

5. Yep. Whose brilliant idea was that?

[NoNothing]

7. Actually they were a little bigger

And a little thicker, but not enough to be noticeable without comparing to a quarter. Worse, they were the same color. The new coins are the same size but gold, which greatly reduces confusion.

[realisticphish]

8. definitely

make them larger, or with a weird edge, or octagonal, or SOMETHING.

[derby378]

11. Vending machine lobbyists will fight it tooth and nail

Personally, I love the oversized Eisenhower dollar. But a square dollar coin would be pretty cool - and impossible to mistake for a quarter.

[Statistical]

18. Pretty much impossible to mistake now.

vs

[eppur_se_muova]

55. Why? Those dollar-bill readers are high-maintenance annoyances.

Sometimes (a lot of times, actually) the lower-tech approach is the more robust one.

[backscatter712]

58. The current generation of dollar coins were engineered for vending machine compatibility.

The Sacajawea dollar coin was designed to be the same diameter, thickness and weight as the Susan B. Anthony dollar. People complained that it was too hard to tell the difference between the SBA dollar and a quarter - they both had ridged edges and silver color, and the SBA dollar was only slightly bigger than the quarter.

So the Sacajawea dollar was made copper/gold colored, given a smooth edge (with writing in it), so people could more easily pick them out in a handful of change. But because it's the same thickness, diameter & weight as the SBA dollars, they were accepted by vending machines that took SBA dollars.

But anyways, I do agree - the .gov needs to phase out paper dollars - that's what would make dollar coins actually catch on.

[Pab Sungenis]

13. They are different.

They're notably thicker, visibly larger than a quarter, have a thicker rim, distinctive reverse design (the statue of Liberty), and a lettered edge which feels smooth to the touch in your pocket. Put five quarters and five dollars in your pocket, and you can pick the correct one out nearly every time.

The problem is that people were prejudiced against the coin because of all the missteps around the Susan B. Anthony dollar in 1979, and the failure to do what every other nation in the world has done and get rid of our unit note (dollar bill).

[Romulox]

16. I find your defense of the coin...odd. It's the SAME DIAMETER

(or so close as for the difference to be indistinguishable without measuring tools.)

"failure to do what every other nation in the world has done"

I've been to a lot of countries. Their coins ALWAYS have different diameters for different denominations.

[jmowreader]

27. A lot of their bills are different sizes, too

Deutschemarks were this way, Euros are this way, but the bills are different sizes in Europe--the more money a bill is worth, the larger it is. This is so blind people can count their money.

This is strange to say the least: In the US we have 1¢, 5¢, 10¢, 25¢ and 50¢ coins that have been the same size practically forever, and the 10¢ coin, which is worth 10x the 1¢ and 2x the 5¢, is smaller than either. How did that happen?

[eppur_se_muova]

40. Smaller-value coins are made with cheaper metals.

cents from bronze originally, now copper-plated zinc ...

nickels from copper-nickel alloy ...

dimes, quarters, half-dollars, and dollars originally from silver (now "clad"; copper cores with nickel-copper faces) ...

up to $20 from gold.

If you tried to make them all from a cheap metal, the $20 piece would have been huge. If you made them all from gold, the cent would have been absurdly small. By using different metals, the sizes can be kept within a reasonable range, but still different (except for that stupid SBA dollar). As the value of metals has changed over the years, the Mint has chosen to change the composition of coins, and avoided changing their sizes, except for the dollar coin. (Wartime shortages account for steel pennies and manganese-rich nickels.)

[Pab Sungenis]

33. Not even close.

The quarter is 24 mm in diameter.
The dollar is 26.5 mm in diameter.
Put a quarter on top of a dollar, and the difference is obvious.

The dollar is halfway in diameter between the quarter and the half dollar.

But there are other criteria that makes it easier to tell than the diameter alone.

One: IT'S FREAKING BRASS. You can see the color difference very easily.
Two: THE EDGE FEELS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. Put a dollar and a quarter in your pocket. You can feel the difference.

Can you tell the difference between a cent and a dime? Those two coins are a lot closer in diameter than the quarter and the dollar are. (Only a 1 mm difference, half the difference between the quarter and the dollar.) But you don't judge by diameter, you judge by the color if you are looking at it, and the edge if it's in your pocket. Use the same criteria and you can tell the difference between a quarter and a dollar.

To claim that the coins are easy to confuse (unless you're dealing with old Susan B. Anthony coins, which are a tiny fraction of the dollar coins out there now) is a sign of willful ignorance. If you try it, it's simple.

[Romulox]

41. You realize that if one needs a second coin to "measure" the first, it's fairly close?

"One: IT'S FREAKING BRASS. You can see the color difference very easily.
Two: THE EDGE FEELS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. Put a dollar and a quarter in your pocket. You can feel the difference."

You seem to be emotionally invested in this issue to an unhealthy degree. The point being, I do not wish to carry a quarter around in order to judge the size of the dollar coins.

[Pab Sungenis]

45. You don't need to.

That's my point. You can see at a glimpse whether the coin is silvery or gold/coppery.

You can tell whether a coin is a cent or a dime without having the other around. It's the same dichotomy. If the coin is silvery, or has a reeded edge (if you're feeling in your pocket) then it's a quarter. If it's coppery, or has a smooth/lettered edge (in your pocket) then it's a dollar.

My investment is that there are so many people parroting the lie that you can't tell the coins apart. It's a myth that's been bought into. Get yourself a dollar coin and carry it with your change. In short order you'll figure it out.

[Romulox]

49. The coins are a failure. Your evangelism can't change that.

"ou can tell whether a coin is a cent or a dime without having the other around. It's the same dichotomy. If the coin is silvery, or has a reeded edge (if you're feeling in your pocket) then it's a quarter. If it's coppery, or has a smooth/lettered edge (in your pocket) then it's a dollar."

That's not what "dichotomy" means. And I, like most adult males, do not carry change. Nor will I, regardless of the color of dollar coins. :hi:

[Pab Sungenis]

51. Yes, it is.

A dichotomy is any splitting of a whole into exactly two non-overlapping parts. Dollars are copper colored and have smooth lettered edges. Quarters are silvery and have reeded edges.

Dimes are silvery with reeded edges. Cents are copper colored with smooth edges.

Same two divisions. If you can't tell a dollar from a quarter I assume that you're also spending dimes as if they were cents?

[Romulox]

57. There are at least 5 circulating US coins. They can't be divided into a "dichotomy"

Based on the characteristics you've enumerated, you'd need 3 or 4 categories. A split into two parts (but no more than two!) is what "dichotomy" means.

At any rate, you're very boring. :shrug:

[Pab Sungenis]

61. No, it's a division between two coins likely to be confused.

Similar in size and weight, but distinguishable.

Answer the question: can you tell the difference between a cent and dime?

[derby378]

19. I still see dollar coins being mistaken for quarters all the time

Vending machines are smart enough to know the difference, but that dollar feels exactly like a quarter to too many shoppers and cashiers, especially when it's in your pocket.

[realisticphish]

36. things that happened

6 years before I was born do not prejudice me. I used the dollar coins, and I didn't like them. It was too hard to tell what you had in your pocket. Yes, if I have a quarter and a dollar, you can tell. But if you have some quarters, some dollars, some nickels, etc, it is a pain in the ass.

[XemaSab]

25. Are you talking about Sacajawaea?

:shrug:

[Romulox]

26. The same critique applies to Sacajawea.

But as far as I know, the Sacajawea dollars have never seen broad circulation.

[EstimatedProphet]

39. They get the same circulation as the Presidential dollar coins, actually

I get them in bulk for spending money. Handy at farmer's markets and such.

http://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&identifier=8100

[aquart]

2. Heavy, jingly...bleh.

And you can't make a large roll of cash with coins so macho guys don't like 'em either.

[Solly Mack]

3. I'm used to 1 & 2 euro coins. I really like the 2 euro coin.

[CTyankee]

17. Euro coins are cool but boy, I've found it hard many times to get change.

So you end up having to have lots and lots of change because vendors don't want to take a larger note or coin for a small purchase. And the little coins are really little...when I'm in Europe I'm always digging for the little buggers in my coin and note wallet...

[Solly Mack]

21. My purse can get fairly heavy because of the change.

I usually only carry the 2, 1 euro coins and the 20 & 50 cent euro coins and put the rest in a jar.

I can use both dollar (U.S. installation) and euro, but we don't use the U.S. penny at all - so everything is rounded up or down.

[CTyankee]

22. I don't have space for another jar! I'm going to Italy in September and I'm using

up all my change going over and by the time I get back. I don't want lots of bills but not a plethora coins either.

Where are you located?

[Solly Mack]

24. LOL! I trip over my 2 huge jars now.

SW Germany

Enjoy your trip!!

[SoCalDem]

4. We don't need $1 coins or 50 cent pieces

or even pennies.. We could easily round up or down to nickels.. any why not just have 1,2,3,4,5 bills?

[Statistical]

20. why would you want a $2,$ 3, $4 bill?

$1, $5, $10, $20, $50, $100 are chosen for a reason ($2 exists but in very low numbers it might as well be scrapped also).

The spacing allows for minimal increase in number of bills to make any size transaction without needing very many different types of bills.

Example:
$4 is 4 bills 4x $1
$9 however is just 5 bills $5 + $4x1
$19 is just one more bill: $10 + $5 + $4x1
($29 & $59) is the same
$39 and $49 is just one more bill
$69 is just 7 bills $50 + $10 + $5 + 4x$1
...
$99 is just 8 bills $50 + 2x$20 + $5 + 4X1

The spacing between bills is designed to reduce the number of bills required for change while at the same time minimizing number of type of bills needed.

I do agree there is absolutely no need for $0.50 or the worthless penny. I wouldn't care if they got rid of $1 bill and used only the $1 coin though.

[eppur_se_muova]

54. Technogeeks advocate the $1, $2, $4, ... $128 bills. ;^)

That way, it never takes more than two bills to make change. :D

[MisterP]

29. why have nickels? if the penny is abolished, ditto nickels and dimes nt

[NoNothing]

47. Ahem, we do have $2 bills

I get them whenever I go to the back.

[SoCalDem]

48. I used to get a crisp one every week as a kid..for my allowance

:)

[NoNothing]

6. Almost all vending machines DO accept dollar coins

The form factor hasn't changed since the Susan B. Anthony, so they've had decades to make the changes.

[eppur_se_muova]

10. But then they treat them as quarters (dumb choice of size) ...

of course, it's nice to get them back in your change occasionally. :D

[Pab Sungenis]

34. No, they don't.

Not only are they a different diameter and weight, but the electronic signature (which most vending machines rely on) is completely different.

A machine is more likely to reject a dollar coin than think it's a quarter.

[Travis_0004]

9. I thought most vending machines do accept dollar coins

When the US made the Sacagawea dollar followed by the Presidental dollars, they made them the same size, weight and metal compensation as the Susan B Anthony Dollar. This was because most vending machines were already programmed to accept Susan B Anthony dollars, so without any upgrades, they would take the new dollar coins. I know the machines we have at work give out dollar coins as change, and accept dollar coins.

[eppur_se_muova]

12. I must live in the boonies -- I've only seen dollar coins accepted by USPS stamp machines.

Actually, thinking about it, I've spent most of my life since graduating in the boonies, so that may be it.

[Sinistrous]

15. I used dollar coins a lot when they first came out - never had that problem.

Not once.

[One_Life_To_Give]

14. Find the Canadian $1 and $2 coins simple to use and identify

Now if the US would follow the lead of what has been successful elsewhere we might accomplish something. And just to make the cash register folks happy we could eliminate the penny and the nickel. Note the purchasing power of the half penny when eliminated was equivalent to a dime today. Arguably it would be equivalent to eliminating anything smaller than a quarter.

[customerserviceguy]

23. When they stop printing dollar bills

then we will all go to acceptance of dollar coins. Perhaps that's what the Mint is stockpiling them for.

Once the dollar bill is a goner, the remaining ones will wear out within a couple of years, or be hoarded. Currency is gradually becoming obsolete, anyway.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

31. That is the key

A Canadian friend said that their Gov started not printing bills so the coins were the only option. That may be the only way it would work in the US

[WinkyDink]

28. They are too heavy. We like bills.

[Pab Sungenis]

35. The trick (under the current system which includes a dollar bill)

is to not think of the dollar coin replacing a dollar bill in your pocket, but replacing four quarters. It will actually make your pocket lighter that way.

And if we phase out the dollar bill you'll never need more than a single dollar coin in your pocket anyhow, because we have $2.00 bills.

[Romulox]

43. The only reason to have the quarters is that they are the CHANGE of a broken dollar...

A dollar coin can't solve that.

[Xithras]

62. Many of us don't carry change at all.

No coins here, ever. If I get change while I'm out for the day, it goes in my ashtray until I get home. The kids can have it.

Who wants to sound like a frigging moronic tinkling reindeer while they're walking down the sidewalk?!?!

Of course, I rarely carry cash at all nowadays. I busted out my debit card the other day for a 45 cent purchase :D

[JBoy]

30. I love my loonies and toonies.

[TheBigotBasher]

32. American $ bills seem designed to really annoy and scam tourists and old people.

I can not see any other reason for their design.

[eppur_se_muova]

53. I read somewhere (no link or ref, SORRY) ...

That there is only one factory in the whole USA that makes the paper on which bills are printed -- the $1 bill is printed in largest quantities, so they don't want it phased out; it means jobs to them, and to their Senator, who blocks all efforts to phase out the $1 bill in favor of coins.

I read this in a paper copy of a newpaper or magazine, not online, and it was years ago, so take with a grain of salt.

[HopeHoops]

37. I use dollar coins all the time. There are places where you just don't wan't to take out a wallet.

But the REAL reason they mint dollar coins is simple - IT IS MORE ECONOMICAL.

Coins last pretty much forever. Paper money only lasts a few years in circulation, at best. It costs a shitload more to print paper in the long run.

Another reason is profit. Sure it costs about 2 cents to make a penny, and around 7 or 8 cents to make a nickel, but it only costs about 27 cents or so to make a dollar coin. The banks actually pay a dollar for that 27 cent coin (contrary to what some believe), so the treasury makes money off of the dollar coins. Last I checked, they make money on dimes and quarters as well. All of that easily offsets the loss on pennies and nickels.

That said, I'm in favor of dropping the penny (as Australia did like 20 years ago) and moving to 5 cents as the base unit. That's not to say that pennies would become useless - 5 of them is still 5 cents.

And as for vending machines, some already do. The stamp machines at the Post Office (at least around here) gives change in dollar coins.

[eppur_se_muova]

56. And they survive the laundry much better than bills. ;^)

The older and more absent-minded you get, the more you appreciate that advantage.

[EstimatedProphet]

38. A lot of vending machines already do accept them

I prefer them, and I think we should have $1 and $5 coins.

[pitohui]

42. i hate coins but...

any time the u.s. mint tries to have a program to promote their use, some asshat screws them up

there was a long running thread on flyertalk telling how to order the coins at no cost (free shipping) so that you could earn frequent flyer miles AND get more coins instead of bills, with lots of tips on how to use the coins

some asshat complained to his congressman and put a stop to the free shipping program

i would buy $1 coin for a dollar BUT i won't buy a $1 coin for $1 PLUS SHIPPING COSTS, coins are heavy, so the asshat spoiled it for everyone

if you want coins to be used, you have to give people a benefit from using the coins, and one loudmouth got the benefit taken away

if you travel, you quickly find out that $1 and $2 coins are a serious pain in the ass, they're heavy, they don't fit in the wallet, they're just a huge huge huge hassle, anyone who has been to canada or europe or australia KNOWS what i'm talking about it

you have the unhappy choice of fumbling with $2 coins OR misplacing the coins because they don't fold into your wallet, and a $2 coin is not a petty loss, esp. when you keep getting them in change and suddenly it's like $30 in your pocket

even slot machines are cashless these days, the coin is just a hassle because of its weight and the fact that it won't fold into your wallet

don't just give me a hassle, if i must have a hassle, GIVE ME A BENEFIT!!!

[Pab Sungenis]

46. The free shipping program is still going on.

It's just that now they're not eligible for frequent flier miles because some bozos were just redepositing them.

http://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&identifier=8100

And I've been in Canada quite a bit. I prefer the loonie and toonie. I prefer the round pound and two pound coin when in the UK. I haven't been to the Eurozone since the conversion but can't see that it would be much of a difference.

The main use for $1.00 bills nowadays is either as change from breaking a larger bill or in vending machines. The vending machine job can be much better served with a coin at the rate bill accepters malfunction. If we redesign and reintroduce the $2.00 bill and get rid of the dollar bill and half dollar then the switchover will be relatively painless.

[NNN0LHI]

44. They are really popular at the roving poker games around here ... I have been told

Don't need to use chips.

Don

[knitter4democracy]

50. I love them and can never find them.

My kids love them, too.

[MadHound]

52. Well hell, if they're running out of storage space,

I've got a barn they can store a few million, or billion, in.

[Spider Jerusalem]

59. Basically, it comes down to 'WE FEAR CHANGE!'

Which is more or less what the people who don't like dollar coins in this thread are saying. The only way to have them accepted on a large scale is to stop printing $1 bills. Here in the UK the pound coin was introduced in 1983, and the pound note was withdrawn in 1984. If the Bank of England had kept printing pound notes no-one would have used the coins--and for high-circulation denominations like $1, coins make more sense than paper anyway. The average life of a $1 bill in circulation is 18 months; coins will last decades.

[Recovered Repug]

60. If they get rid of the dollar bill,

how will I tip the girls at the nudie bar?