What in particular was it that Gibbs said which disappointed, upset, angered &/or dismayed you?

[Turborama]

Poll question: What in particular was it that Gibbs said which disappointed, upset, angered &/or dismayed you?

“I hear these people saying he’s like George Bush. Those people ought to be drug tested,” Gibbs said. “I mean, it’s crazy.”

The press secretary dismissed the “professional left” in terms very similar to those used by their opponents on the ideological right, saying, “They will be satisfied when we have Canadian healthcare and we’ve eliminated the Pentagon. That’s not reality.”

Of those who complain that Obama caved to centrists on issues such as healthcare reform, Gibbs said: “They wouldn’t be satisfied if Dennis Kucinich was president.”

(If you feel different emotions than the ones mentioned in the question, please elaborate)

ETA if want to vote whether you simply agree or disagree with Gibbs, this poll by Junkdrawer offers the chance to vote yes or no: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8919967

[Pirate Smile]

1. You could add an "I agree with him". I guess that would fit in the last option but it would work as

a separate one too.

[Turborama]

3. Good point. Unfortunately I used up the limit of choices.

I guess people who chose the last one could add that they agree with him in the comments, though.

[Turborama]

9. Not sure if you've seen it yet but there is a poll which asks just that question

With a simple yes or no: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8919967

Maybe I can add this link to the OP to offer that additional choice?

[pnwmom]

2. If Kucinich was President, he would be as hamstrung by the Senate as Obama is.

Maybe more so, since I've not seen any particular evidence of his negotiating skills.

[ibegurpard]

4. All of it

It was the same bullshit I read on here every day.
I wanted Canadian healthcare but I would've settled for a public option...their negotiation starting point was a public option and it went downhill from there.
They think we're petulant and never satisfied but their starting point in negotiations is my compromise point.
So, obviously, I don't belong in the same party with them. Fine.
Then shut your fucking mouth and stop asking me for my vote and my money and support.

[depakid]

5. Gibbs should have been out there every single day deriding Republicans for their failed ideology

for the mess they made, for their irrational obstructionism and their lunacy.

He should also have been at the coservadems for the same reason.

Instead the tubby and stammering little coward takes potshots at the progressive base- on the eve of an election campaign.

ANYONE who supports that is -no way around it, just plain stupid and deserves what this sort of thing gets them.

[saracat]

7. Amen. Anyone with the smallest degree of intelligence realizes how ham fisted and stupid this commen...

this comment was.And NO amount of backpedaling will EVER erase the memory of this having been said, just as no amount of apologizing will ever erase the memory of Rahm's words.No matter how some want to spin this, this wasn't a minor gaffe.This was a BFD.

[grantcart]

12. This is only a BFD for people with very small perspectives.

[depakid]

13. LOL- let's just go out and insult the base- gratuitously- AGAIN on the eve of an election

Krugman (among others) wrote about this less than 2 weeks ago,

Obama needs to stop alienating his allies

Why does the Obama administration keep looking for love in all the wrong places? Why does it go out of its way to alienate its friends, while wooing people who will never waver in their hatred?

...Just to be clear: Progressives would be foolish to sit out this election. Obama may not be the politician of their dreams, but his enemies are definitely the stuff of their nightmares.

But Obama has a responsibility, too. He can't expect strong support from people his administration keeps ignoring and insulting.

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_15645591

A pretty simple concept, really.

[laughingliberal]

20. Krugman was spot on with that one. nt

[depakid]

21. Too bad the administration hasn't seen fit to listen

either on matters like this- or on more substantive deals.

[grantcart]

24. He didn't insult the base. He insulted only the dellusional who see

no difference between Bush and Obama.

Even at DU that is not a significant number.


The umbrage that was taken by saying that people who make the equation need drug testing is a very gentle nudge at a very small group.

DU's exaggerated sense of its importance and its exagerated sense of its representation of the base is seen by the very unfortunate polling results of Senator Feingold in Wisconsin and the unfortunate loss of Romanoff in Colorado. Obviously the base is not as radicalized as DU perceives it.

But think about it logically. If soneone really thinks Bush and Obama are the same they are not going to vote for him anyway. So who did he insult? People who aren't going to vote for him. Anybody who thinks that Obama and Bush are the same shouldn't vote for him, its not logical.

Go out and talk to real people, real Democrats and real progressives and they think this kind of reaction is absurd.

Real Progressives were heartened today by the indication that Warren is going to lead the Consumer Protection Agency and they are going to vote for the President that appoints her. And next week that is going to be the very big story from MSNBC all the way to the Daily Show. The umbrage today will only be remembered by those that were already disgruntled. No new disgruntled were made today, only those holding the absurd position that Obama = Bush.

[CTLawGuy]

27. "the base"

are leftist pundits, columnists, major bloggers and TV/Radio personalities?

That's quite a small base...

[NJmaverick]

39. Those saying Obama = Bush are most certainly not the President's 'base"

[saracat]

65. And just for you Mav, Paul Krugman agrees with ME!

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/11/in-the-matt...

August 11, 2010, 9:00 PM
In The Matter Of Robert L. Gibbs

There he goes again. What gets me is how unprofessional the whole thing is.

[saracat]

18. Au contraire. In such a closely divided nation alienating even

a 16% minority, if that is what the left consists of, could cost the election. In this case if that small a percentage stays home and is not motivated to vote, we could have staggering losses. I think that is a pretty big perspective. Voter suppression is always a BFD to Democrats. And it is always much harder to motivate Democrats to vote even in a good year and off elections are the worst .The GOP vote. And they vote religiously downline for anything with an R after its name.We do not and our GOTV generally sucks or is nonexistent. As I walk my precinct I have to say many Democrats are not voting. This is a real problem and they didn't need an extra excuse given to them by Gibbs.

[grantcart]

23. you see someone with real world experience with national and international

world famous figures would not find this a particularly note worthy event.

If your perspective is meeting the most famous person in Peoria then yes it is a VBFD.

[saracat]

26. Actually my perspective is pretty broad.I have interviewed all Democratic Presidential

Democratic Presidential Candidates since 2004,up to and including Barack Obama. I am have the acquittance of several of the members of the cabinet and a lot of the news media and many entertainers. One of my favcorites was Madeline Albright. My perspective is not "limited" by any means.

The fact that my experience is in media is the reason I find this noteworthy. As I stated elsewhere, even the most basic training in activism provides some measure of media damage control. Words DO Matter and who says them matters even more. We live in a world where perception is reality and the dynamics are ever shifting but some incidents leave un-erasable marks. Some of us recognize them when we see them. This is a maraca moment.

Think Progress, and the Progressive Caucus also recognize this gaffe for what it is, and if you think the WH is not aware of this, you would be mistaken. The spin machine is working overtime tonight as the best method to deal with this is considered.

[NJmaverick]

40. So the words of the "Professional Left" who incorrectly claim Bush=Obama also matters then

and Gibbs had no choice but to speak up.

[saracat]

43. There is no "Professional Left" and Gibbs knows it. There is merely the Left

and the Left had a great deal to do with electing the president. Obama did not elect himself. The voters did that. What Gibbs did was antagonize at the very least a part of the Democratic Base, no matter what the percentage and it is not one we can afford to lose.The Left expressing Free speech is not the same thing as professional message control.Image control is not the same thing as voters expressing their concern with politicians.The media professional is Gibbs and he violated the number one rule of PR by "creating the incident." He is to exercise damage control not create damage.

[NJmaverick]

44. There are people claiming that Bush=Obama like FDL and Huffington

and as you said words matter

[saracat]

48. Those people are expressing freedom of speech.The president is a Public figure. Gibbs speaks for the

President.It is an entirely different matter. Gibbs job is to persuade those people to write what he wants them to say about the president. He has quite obviously not done so. This is about "Message control". If they are writibg these things he has not controlled the "message". NO other WH has ever reacted in this manner. Give me one examplw where a WH Press Sec has blamed the base of the presidents Party, or even a section of the base for his own lack of competance? If the President's image isn't presented correctly, or his messge doesn't get out that is a PR problem because it wasn't handled correctly because the Press Office wasn't out in front of a perception. Their jobis to create a positive perception.If people are writing or saying otherwise, they did not do so.

[NJmaverick]

51. Wait a second you are mixing up freedom with accountability

People are free to speak but they are not free of accountability

[saracat]

52. I am not mixing up anything. The "people" are not responsible for WH "image control"

or WH messaging. Robert Gibbs is. Robert Gibbs is accountable for how that message is perceived, not the people.

[NJmaverick]

53. Wrong, people, especially the media, are ethically bound to behave

in a responsible and reasonable manner.

[saracat]

54. Some folks are just dense. Rep Grayson somes it up correctly , Gibbs is NOT doing his job.

It is not unethical to disagree and it isn't unethical to point out the the president has carried over Bush era policy as in rendition and wiretapping. It is not unethical to report that or to compare the similarites.Nor is it unethical for common citizens to express their frustration with this.It is incompetence for Gibbs to not control how this debate is handled and to create a firestorm making things worse. And the White House Press sec should NEVER allow himself to become the story.He is supposed to control the story.

[NJmaverick]

55. Grayson was guilty of being dishonest in his statements about Gibbs not attacking the GOP

there has been at least 20 examples (that I have seen so far) of Gibbs attacking the GOP. Grayson owes Gibbs a HUGE apology. If you want to support your position you should at least site an honest source.


Who exactly is dense? Are you calling me dense because I don't agree with your views?

[saracat]

56. No. Those who do not seem to understand the duties of the WH Press Sec.are dense.

BTW, Grayson didn't say that Gibbs NEVER had st said anything about the GOP. He basically said that was what he would be better served doing INSTEAD of attacking the Left. Grayson owes No one an apology. Grayson is one of the few who speak truth to power.

I don't believe that you can possibly think making himself the center of a negative news story, or "allowing" himself to become the center of such a news story is part of the job description of a WH Press Sec.
Grayson is saying Gibbs didn't control the message.He is correct. Gibbs is incompetent and the story got away from him. He also is piss poor at messaging. He needs to be fired and as I am sure you are aware, Grayson is far from alone in thinking this.This conversation would not even be taking place if Gibbs had done his job. The fact it is taking place is prima facie evidence that he failed.

[NJmaverick]

58. Well it seems to me you don't fully understand Gibb's duties

so maybe you should be a little mroe careful about the name calling. As for Grayson, I heard what he said with my own ears and he did not speak the truth and owes Gibbs an apology. There is no way one can spin that one. I also think you are way off base as to your assessment of the Gibb's abilities to handle that job.

[saracat]

59. Baloney. I actually have worked as a media consultant and press sec. to various campaigns,. I KNOW

what the duties are as no doubt does Rep.Grayson, who no doubt has a press sec of his own. Perhaps it escapes your notice that no journalists ( who are the ones Gibbs is supposed to be able to get along with and motivate and who are supposed to respect him)are defending Gibbs on this one? (yeah I am sure that is because they are the Professional Left ) :sarcasm: And it also seems to me that other than a few anonymous posters on an internet blog, very few people ar all are defending Gibbs. I am not the one doing the spinning. But keep on keeping on. This isn't going to win us any elections in Nov. I have more important things to do like convince some Dems to vote in the primary despite the Gibbs boondoggle, and yeah, BTW, I resent it being made harder by Gibbs. Is bad enough with Rahm.

[NJmaverick]

61. Gibbs has a much more impressive background

and I suspect has a pretty good idea what his duties are. That makes me wonder about you calling him incompetent and your knowledge of the duties and responsibilities. As for Grayson, please don't tell me not to believe me lying ears.

As for journalists, what they do or don't do means very little to me. Their action, as a group, has long since caused me to lose all respect for them.

[saracat]

62. Doesn't matter what you think of them. The WH Press office is designed to

work with them. They are the Fourth Estate and important to getting the Presidents"s message out. Gibbs background alone makes it very bad thay he blew it this way. He DOES know better. Any activist who ever attended a "training camp" knows better.

[NJmaverick]

63. yeah right, FAUX news and Poltico and all the rest of the right wing owned media

would be so much better with a different press sec:eyes:

[saracat]

64. It isn't a good idea to hand them ammo. They do enough on their own. Gibbs handed them ammo.

Bring back Mike McCurry.

[NJmaverick]

67. the ones giving them ammo would be the "professional left'

which is why Gibbs had no choice but to call them out.

[saracat]

68. Like I said Paul Krugman agrees with me. LOL!

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/11/in-the-matt...

August 11, 2010, 9:00 PM
In The Matter Of Robert L. Gibbs

There he goes again. What gets me is how unprofessional the whole thing is.

[EFerrari]

34. What the President of the United States' spokeman says

in an official capacity is a BFD, no matter how much you try to minimize it.

[NYC Liberal]

50. He HAS been out there EVERY damn day

blasting Republicans. It is posted on DU all the time.

The fact that you do not know this is, well, odd.

[Cha]

6. Thanks for your

poll, Turborama~

[Turborama]

8. You're welcome, Cha

I hope a big enough number DUers vote so we can get a true sense of how DU as a whole really feels about this.

:hi:

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. He should know better about some of these, wait all of them

but the Pentagon was particularly shocking.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gkhouston]

17. +1000, and ew. n/t

[Jumping John]

14. Since when does the democratic party president's press secretary use an interview

to give voice to the rights allegations against fellow democrats in such an immature attack that shows such a low level of incompetence? I expect better from the Obama team. I may be over estimating their levels of competence though. Was it just another event to show the left that the Obama Admin is more than ready to bend over for the right even to the point of attacking the people that put Obama where he is today?

Gibbs and Obama must not be very persuasive at all. After meeting with Mitch McConell it was plain that Obama could expect nothing from the Right at all. So then his buddy Gibbs goes into attack mode against the left. PITIFUL>

Edit:
Yea in the construction business, when a person formulates an idea tht is outlandish, then that person is asked what kind of drugs are they taking or someone will suggest that person should be drug tested. But this does not happen when that same person makes good sense. So then I am sure that my suggestion would be more fitting when I reccommend that Gibbs should take that drug test.

[LostinVA]

72. Good post

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hydra]

19. It's a very hard call

So I went with "All of it."

For him to systematically ridicule our core values and perhaps one of our best voices...I think the biggest shock was Gibbs basically saying "Your values, the values of the party President Obama ran in, are obsolete and unreasonable. STFU and get in lockstep."

How does one deal with being told his party isn't his party anymore? On the other hand, there seem to be plenty of people who are ok with dumping values for imaginary Republican support.

[McCamy Taylor]

22. He has a right to his opinion and I have a right to mine. My feelings do not get hurt that easy.

[grantcart]

Unless you equate Bush = Obama there are no feelings to be hurt.

If you think Bush = Obama then why would anyone support Obama?

[Turborama]

25. According to the Top Tens' "New and Hot" this poll has received 8 unrecs

I'm bringing this up not to whine and complain about the unrecs but, out of genuine curiosity, to ask if anyone who has unrec'd would like to explain why.

Is it something about the way I composed the poll? This is only the second poll I have created on DU so any constructive criticism would be greatly appreciated...

New And Hot
Recommendations + unrecommendations + replies = points (4 hours)

General Discussion
What in particular was it that Gibbs said which disappointed, upset, angered &/or dismayed you?
35 points : By Turborama

ETA I am grateful to those who have taken the time to vote in the poll. The more who do so, the better the representation will be of how DUers feel about what Gibbs said. The eventual amount of recs/unrecs this post will generate within its 1st 24 hours isn't really that important, in this respect. It would also be greatly appreciated if anyone who feels inclined would help keep this poll going by giving it the occasional kick. Thanks in advance...

[Mimosa]

28. It's an excellent poll

I think there are professional un-recommenders at work. ;)


Gibbs let the cat out of the bag. Too bad the administration sees no benefit in pleasing mainstream Dems who are committed to social and economic progress. The hard right are never going to like Obama no matter how much he compromises. Or maybe they do. Maybe it's all a game and the working people keep losing. :(

[Turborama]

29. Thank you so much for your feedback

:-)

"The hard right are never going to like Obama no matter how much he compromises."

You've got that right! :banghead:

I do think he's an extremely intelligent guy (unlike his predecessor) and he must have realized by now that the failed attempts at bipartisanship were the unmitigated disasters we all predicted they would be.

I might be considered mad around here but I still think he's playing the long game, though. I'm hoping for the best, but fearing the worst at this stage.

[Turborama]

30. Kick

:kick:

[Turborama]

31. As it stands it seems DU is almost evenly split, according to this poll

43% were not disappointed, upset, angered &/or dismayed by what Gibbs said and 57% were. A 7% difference.

This poll has had 726 views so far and only 97 votes so it's probably worth keeping it going in an attempt to get a higher number of votes to gauge what the definitive sentiment is.

[blindpig]

32. Quite happy about it, very clarifying...

Shoot, Gibbs totally supported my thread from the day before:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8907415

Left issues will not be addressed by this party or administration, Capitalism rules.

[EFerrari]

33. I'm angry that Gibbs is taking potshots at the left in public

when we have an election coming up. I'm burned out on what is now a pattern of the administration attacking the left in the same language that the Republicans use. It's destructive in several directions.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

35. The following option can be scewed as to its interpretation

"Nothing, I wasn't disappointed, upset, angered and/or dismayed by what he said"

If one selected that option it can mean two things.
#1, I agree with Gibbs or
#2, (I selected it because it didn't surprise me one bit)
The actions of the administration have already told me how they feel about the irrelevancy of Progressives/Liberals.

[Turborama]

37. True

The problem was that I couldn't add a simple "I agree with Gibbs" because I had used up all the options. That's why, after Pirate Smile's suggestion, I later added the other poll which asks only that question.

Thanks for the explanation of why you voted the way you did. If people feel their vote needs clarification, replying is the best way to do it.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

46. I didn't see the other poll yet and your welcome. :)

[guruoo]

42. Or #3: No time for this BS, I'm focused on the Congressional races nt

[Blue_Tires]

36. I just don't understand he dismissed "Canadian healthcare" with the same rhetorical attitude

as wishing for "streets paved with gold" or something...And personally, while I don't care to see the Pentagon taken down brick-by-brick, I WOULD love to see for starters an honest-to-god transparent accounting on how much money they spend and what they spend it on, followed by a full audit of the contracts for battlefield/intelligence community toys and services...My absolute smallest estimate is the intelligence organizations burn up 5x the funding and resources needed while providing nothing in return -- In these times that money needs to be allocated elsewhere...

I mean honestly; regardless of what thinks of Gibbs' comments, is there ANY DUer who doesn't want universal coverage and a smaller war-spy apparatus??

[Turborama]

38. Excellent points very well made

universal coverage - check!

transparent accounting on how much money they spend and what they spend it on - I'd love to see that too but there are going to be certain things they'd need to keep top secret for obvious reasons.

a smaller war-spy apparatus?? - This would come from making "5x the funding and resources needed while providing nothing in return" to 1x funding and resources needed by simple efficiency - cutting off the dead wood, as it were?

You raise some very important points about military transparency, but it is complicated because the argument goes that we can't just open our books for all and sundry as outside intelligence agencies would be able to analyze them.

[guruoo]

41. Gibbs has unwittingly helped to prove the theory of 'political ADD' n/t

[closeupready]

45. Just the entire dismissive tone he used re: Dem. constituents, which is not used against Republicans

at least not by Gibbs that I can recall.

[Whisp]

47. Nothing, in fact I'm sorry he held back and semi-apologized.

[Turborama]

49. These percentages add up to 110%

Is that a common problem with polls on DU or is it an unusual glitch?

[SoxFan]

57. These aren't the results you're looking for

Move along.

[BootinUp]

60. I like your poll. nt

[Turborama]

70. Thank you, I appreciate your feedback n/t

[defendandprotect]

66. Not clear on your poll questions... but count me for "GIBBS SHOULD BE FIRED" ....

and think you understand I DISAGREE!!!

[Turborama]

69. There is a poll related to that

It's about whether he should resign or not: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8922968

[Turborama]

71. Final kick

:kick:

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Turborama]

74. What exactly do you mean?

It's not clear where you're going with that statement...