It is money raising season... and I got the obligatory call

[nadinbrzezinski]

from the Senate ... you know they raise money for all races.

I almost feel bad for the kid as he started his shpill, I pointed out that it seems we are not needed, the professional left that is. So don't bother calling for money.

He sounded shocked, and started his shpill again... I have to commend him for his ability to stick to the script. But I pointed out to him that the left, whatever is in this country, is called for donations, promised the moon and then promptly ignored the day after the elections. Be happy that I will actually bother to vote in November.

He thanked me and hung the phone. I do hope that goes up the food chain.

(And when we give these days, we CHOSE the candidates anyway)

[RandomThoughts]

1. They get to choose what they do.

It really doesn't matter what people say in the long run, people think what they want.

The nice thing is the only thing a person can loose is the thought that people will think something through correctly. You have to think that at some time people figure something out.

Maybe they don't maybe they do.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. We are getting to the point that there is revolt in the air

the tea party is a symptom, so are a few others.

And sadly it is not just me or the members of the PL saying this, or for that matter the Right. Today a member of Reagan's staff actually came out and said the RNC has destroyed the economy and that indeed there is revolution in the air.

For all our sakes I just hope it remains, like most Revolutions in this country, peaceful.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

48. +1

may sanity prevail.

[msongs]

2. only give money to specific candidates who advocate liberal/progressive policies nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. That's what I do

[csziggy]

36. I've been telling the callers from DNC, DSCC and DCCC that for a year

That I will NOT be donating to their organizations because they do not support the more liberal and progressive candidates that I want. That I WILL be donating to individual candidates that fit my political agenda.

And I have been assured that comments like that are passed up the chain.

[Whisp]

3. promised the moon then promptly ignored?

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. We've been trying to 'xplain this to you

and as is... what I told the kid is exactly what many folks of the PL are thinking right now, after Gibbs "love letter."

I will say this, they are not doing this voter suppression on purpose, but the net effect will be that.

The base, I could explain to you this to, but no use anyway, is all but fired up and ready to go.

[Whisp]

7. you are not the base.

please don't flatter yourself or threaten anyone.

Obama will be fine. He knew what he was up against - mostly the media's big fucking lies that the dull of mind accept.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Please for the class define the base

I'll be waiting, and ANY standard poli sci definition will do.

On edit, perhaps not... I guess you believe power percolates down, as well as legitimacy.

I believe power flows up, and legitimacy is given by the people.

Now my friend these are STANDARD defintions, but from your attitude I guess you do not realize how stupid Gibbs was... or how that could SUPPRESS REAL VOTES.

[Whisp]

9. I can bookmark this if you like and see you in 2 and some years.

Obama will get his second term, no matter how hard some of you try that he doesn't.

and that power percolating down? is that like the trickle down Reagan economics theory, or is it a new and improved system especially sweet because the tricklers may be powerful democrats?

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. What part of November you are missing

and I do expect some folks to stay home. Some will because of what GIBBS SAID.

But whatever, we need to defend ALL that comes out of the WH, no matter how inane or stupid, and do damage control.

Another term you may want to become familiar with is... CULT OF PERSONALITY.

And you may want to also pick up a poli sci 101 standard textbook to find what the heck I am talking about.

[Whisp]

14. maybe I'll poke some chicken entrails instead

to find out what the heck you are talking about.

If anyone stays home because of what Gibbs said, the thin skinned wieners would have stayed home anyway. If it's not Gibbs it would be some other made up weak excuse.
Empty threats.

do what you like, stay home, don't vote, hold your nose.

I lost giving a shit.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. So standard political science terms are chicken entrails

how anti intellectual of you.

[Whisp]

17. I don't find you too bright either.

but this little convo with you reminds me of a Dilbert cartoon from years ago... so it had it's merits to make me laugh.


''See that little island there on the map? Thats where all the people that give a shit (who you vote for) live.''

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Ah now we go down the personal attack territory

Why is it that certain folks will predictably go down this route when they cannot bully us into compliance?

Here is a hint, the US does not have strong parties... nor party control, nor message control... ok the right is slightly better at it. But we really do not. Party discipline, yeah well whatever.

This is what really frustrates a lot of "centrists."

But not even the American Communist Party has a strong central committee.

I mean this, GO get find a good poli sci textbook. Get away from some of the partisanship, and READ the book. You might find it interesting... even learn something from it... in fact the fact that the great strength and weakness of American Parties is exactly that... lack of good central control.

If it frustrates you that people actually have opinions, or know things you don't, well that's ok. But if anybody in the US tries to bully "the base" they are in for a nasty surprise.

There is more., Frum was right, the Republicans fears their base, the Democrats, at least the New Democrats, hate their base. You are a new democrat... and yes you'd love to close American society... I know that... and I will fight your intentions every step of the way. And no, not you specifically... the neo-liberals who are going so far right, the center is now left.

Oh and good luck with the message control... clean up on aisle three... five, ten, 100... and so on.

In the words of Will Rogers, I belong to no organized political party, I am a democrat.

[Whisp]

22. how anti-intellectual of you.

while book recommending, you may like to try this one:

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. To ask you to read a book?

IF that is the case, guilty as charged!!!!

[Goldstein1984]

32. I recommend...

"Chimpanzee Politics: Power and Sex Among Apes" by Frans de Waal. You'll never look at the Democratic and Republican parties, or the party faithful, in the same light.

It's were you learn that leaders cease to be leaders the moment they lose a critical mass of followers, and that losing any following at all diminishes authority. Authority of position without moral authority means very little. On the track he is on, there will be little moral authority left in 2012.

Obama may get his second term, but if he continues on it will be by a slim margin, with a corresponding loss of moral authority.

I recommend you bookmark this thread. We can discuss in 2012.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. Bad, bad, you are gonna make me add a book to my collection

to be read right after the Communist Manifesto, the Republic, Is democracy Exportable by Barany and Global Liberal Order by Bernstein... just some light reading.

:hi:

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Goldstein1984]

35. I'm sorry

You just made this a little to juvenile for me to take seriously. If I respond in kind, the next thing will be the lady with the whistle sending us to opposite sides of the dodgeball court for the rest of recess.

My book recommendation was sincere: No leader is a leader, in anything but name, whether a president or a dominant chimp, when they lose moral authority. That is the dangerous road Obama and his poorly chosen staff are following. You can accept or reject that. Or just make another stupid fecal reading material recommendation.

[Whisp]

37. when you speak so seriously about moral authority

of course I'm going to think of pooh.

I like Obama and generally trust him to repair at least some of the evil ways of an empire, but the US has never had any fucking moral authority ever. maybe you should do some reading, son.

[Goldstein1984]

39. I wasn't writing about the moral authority of the U.S.

I was writing about the moral authority of individuals, especially individuals in positions of power and leadership.

When someone occupying a leadership position loses moral authority, then tyranny is the only authority left. Which brings us full circle to your correct statement: The US has never had any moral authority.

Where we may disagree is that I don't believe there any more moral authority in Congress or the White House in August 2010 than there was in August 2008.

[Whisp]

42. ok, I see. So which President in the past had this moral authority

all wrapped up how you would like it?

[Goldstein1984]

55. Not many

And I think it would be difficult to find even one that had moral athority across the board.

I think Carter got a lot less credit than he deserved. I don't know how good a president he was, but I think that he's proven that he is a generally good and moral man as an ex-president.

I'm a fan of Thomas Jefferson, but I have to admit that his flaws are as impressive to me and his good points.

I'd have to admit that moral authority is relative. In my profession, I have to influence hundreds of people to do things, but I have no authority of position to sway them (I don't sign their paychecks, do their evaluations, or give them direct orders). Moral authority is all that I have--once the followers abandon the leader, the leader has nothing but authority of position (title, rank, force).

I'm reading a great book right now, by Andrew Bacevich: "American Rules." It's primarily about our path to permanent war, but it does a great job of explaining why presidents are really just instruments of higher powers. Why things like the Civil War, dropping the atomic bombs on Japan, the Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, and the first and second wars against Iraq were presidential decisions in ceremony only--the path was already being followed, the "decider" was really just making a predetermined and ceremonial decision.

[griffi94]

40. i think you misunderstood him

i didn't see where the US having moral authority was mentioned by anyone but yourself.
i believe the moral authority referred to in the post was a societal phenomenon about an individuals authority & ability to be leader.

still you did make a poop joke so maybe you feel like you have the poster in the crushing grip of reason. maybe a good follow up would be "i know are but what am i"

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. Actually son, you are wrong

The US, which is not what the poster was talking about, has had moral authority. Read Barany among others in the World Order. Here is an easy one Bretton Woods, you think that came because we were really nice? Same goes for NATO and of course the UN.

I think you are way out of your league here. I highly recommend that poli sci 101course I really do. It might make you some good.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. In the military they get that

You can have five stars on them shoulders for all I care. If you go follow me and charge, and you are alone, you are screwed. Simplistic yes, but that is one excellent way to explain it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. You have to be a child to be this...

Infantile!

[Ignis]

53. Seconded: That's a great book!

Also, I applaud the forbearance you've displayed when dealing with immaturity and ignorance. :hi:

[griffi94]

29. that was a really good post.

one thing about the banter with the other poster that i couldn't help but notice.
the othe poster went out if their way to post on your thread and the general thrust of the posts were "i don't care what you think, i know i'm right so nah nah nah"

i don't know much polysci but i know a bullyrag tactic when i see one.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. I'm in the middle of preparing a class

so kind of basic theory just oozes right now.

:-)

and yes that is the kind of tactic we have seen quite a few off.

Oh and close a society means prevent things like this. Have full control of all message and social interaction from the top down.

In other words authoritarian in bent... open societies are like the US... up until now. The last eight years of Bush we saw some tendencies towards closing it.

And yes, according to political scientists American Political Parties are pretty loose in control Why David Duke could declare himself a republican, and there was nothing the RNC could do about it. (And on that one they wanted to do something about it)

[griffi94]

12. i agree i'm not the base

i'm a progressive.
as for the president being fine. i think alot of that will depnd on jobs and the economy, and of course who gets the gop nomination.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. But to DC you are

and will be courted as such... as soon as silly season is fully on.

And that is what our friend is missing.

You are needed at election time... but you knew that already

:hi:

And it is those silly progressive votes that can make a hell of a difference, between victory and defeat.

[griffi94]

19. yeah i have noticed that i'll command a lot more respect

in election cycles. suddenly they'll want us to make our voices heard. lol

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. And shoosh ten seconds after the polls close

and woe us if they lose. I mean it has to be OUR FAULT. That pattern been around since oh the 1980s at least.

[griffi94]

31. yeah it's funny

we're the fringe, we only want a pony and when we don't get a pony we have poutrage, we're not the base, they don't need us, but we better vote for them or the otherside will win because we wanted xyz to win because we've always hated (name of current leader here) and then they lose and it' our fault.

well i guess it's not funny so much as tiring...reminds me of my ex-wife...of course she was bi-polar.

[SwampG8r]

56. the 60s in my life

blamed the left for nixon after the ugly election

[Dragonfli]

43. I like the pic of the assimilator, The borg thing is apropos

I suppose the left must be assimilated or destroyed or something?

[Love Bug]

11. What you said

Maybe if the party hears that often enough they will learn they ignore the "professional left" at their peril. Maybe we should thank Gibbs for giving us the courage to draw a line in the sand. At least we now know what the administration thinks of us. I'm surprised the words "dirty hippies" weren't used.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Why I told that kid the things I told him in those terms

we havent given money to them in over six years. We chose candidates, but that is another story.

[LoZoccolo]

18. So you refused to give to Senate candidates because of what the White House spokesman said?

I would sound shocked too.

[griffi94]

21. wouldn't that be the same senate

that has tied the presidents hands, and left him all but powerless.

[coti]

45. Lozo knows that when the Senate calls, it's the White House's fault. When the WH

calls, it'll be the Senate's fault.

We know it's all of their faults- mostly the White House, though.

[Bluebear]

25. Hello. I am currently out being drug tested. Leave a message at the beep.

Beep.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. RLOL

[SwampG8r]

57. dude....hey dude pick up dude....

are you gonna drive me to the test today dude?
hey pick up
ok......call me when you decide.....

[PA Democrat]

27. We used to have automatic donations made monthly to the DCCC

and the DSCC. When our health insurance premiums went up by double digits for the second year in a row, it was an easy decision to eliminate those donations to help balance our budget.

We also now make donations to individual candidates only.

Maybe you should let the DCCC know that you are not their base (according to that other poster) so they will stop calling. Yes the Democratic Party should ignore how often you voted in primaries, how much you have donated in time and money to Democratic candidates in the past because you are not the base!



:crazy:

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Hmm that is a good idea

and I can also quote Gibbs. I will have to put it in the list of things to do.

[Whisp]

38. o my goodness. I didn't know I had such super powers!

by my posts I may be the cause of the downfall of the United States.
A domino effect that will alter time and space and donation slips!

now will I use it for good, or for evil.


bwhahahahahahah

[griffi94]

41. i don't know about superpowers

but i think standing on your principles with regard to who you donate money to for re-election is probably a sound idea.

it does seem to bother you tho. any particular reason why that is.

[PA Democrat]

46. Wow. You really think that the decision is about YOU?

Get over yourself.

Like many small business people I know, we are feeling the crunch of a bad economy coupled with crushing increases in health insurance costs. When I see some Democratic politicians selling out to corporate interests, it makes the decision as to where to make up our budget shortfall that much easier.

The health insurance "reform" bill does NOTHING to help millions of the self-employed who have preexisting conditions until 2014. We are held hostage to our existing insurance company while they are free to hike rates up as much as they please. 2014 will not come soon enough for many people thanks to the backroom deals made with insurance and pharmaceutical lobbyists.

[eridani]

44. I have money only for Grayson and Kucinich and the like n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. Include boxer

[WinkyDink]

47. Anybody who is critical of someone's not donating for whatever reason: Stick to your own trough

[mcollins]

54. Solidarity!

The party can not treat us like crap and expect us to fall in line like little children. I'll support the local party with donations. Not sure about DC right now. Maybe we need to start a Professional Left Underground?

[Forkboy]

58. Be like me and just never answer the phone.

I sit here sometimes with the phone 1 foot away from me and I merely listen as it just rings and rings and rings. If I don't know who it is personally fuck 'em.

Being a misanthrope is pretty hassle free. ;)