Muslims may not be as Socially Conservative as the Far Right would like them to be

[ck4829]

We have Distort D'Newsa and other Social Conservatives saying to beat the Islamic Terrorists, guess what we have to do. Yes, that's right, have this entire nation become socially conservative too. Yeah, I know, what a big surprise, right? Incidentally, this means rolling back Civil and even Human Rights for women, GLBT people, and minorities. If we do this, then the Muslims will no longer find a reason to hate us, according to them anyway.

But, this is not a world in black and white. Here are some things the Neo-Puritans haven't told us about Islamic Culture.

Environmental Protection

Muslims are big on the environment. For example, the Quran forbids setting forests on fire. What Dinesh D'Souza doesn't mention in his latest book is that Osama in one of his hate screeds against us mentions that our spoiling of the environment is one of the reasons that he hates us. But, for some strange reason, Mr. Distort and the other Social Conservatives don't say that we should all become Environmentalists, why is that?

Gay Rights

Let's leave the region most famous for having Muslims in it, the Middle East, for a while and head to another region of the world where there is a large Muslim population, Africa. While the Middle East isn't the place to be if you are Gay, Africa is alright, and that even extends into the Muslim population. Africa is much more tolerant of Gay people than many people from the West are. In fact, I know one Somali, and I get the feeling from others, that they support full equality for Gays, including the right to marry.

Sex

While the 'christian' Right wants to shrink the government down small enough to fit in your bedroom, Muslims CAN be fairly progressive when it comes to sex. There are no vows of celibacy in Islam and the Quran suggests that men go at the pace during intercourse that SHE wants to go at.

Transgendered

While the Traditional Values Coalition calls them "she-males" and other Right Wing groups don't want them to teach in schools, Iran is light years ahead of the Right when it comes to rights for the Transgendered. They are fully accepted in the nation and their transitions are even paid for by the government.

Universal Health Care

Many Muslims in the US support the idea of Universal Health Care. In fact, Daniel Pipes, Islamophobe to the Extreme, says that Muslim-American support of Universal Health Care, and Affirmative Action too, must mean that they are actually extremists (Whatever you want to believe Mr. Pipes, we know you are just saying this because both Progressives and Muslims support this, kill two birds with one stone, right?).

In Conclusion

So, even though the RW'ers are saying that we need to become Socially Conservative to win, interesting that they didn't tell us the whole story, the world is not as Absolutist as they would like, and they need to get over it. Al Qaeda will still hate us, even if we do become as Socially Conservative as possible, and RW'ers need to get over that Fairy Tale that we can win against the terrorists if we declare Gay people to be sinners worthy of execution and that intelligent women are secretly witches in disguise, it will not work.

[fasttense]

1. Go figure

Muslims hate Americans not because American leaders are dropping bombs on them and trying to steal their national resources, they hate us because we think women should have the right to vote. Now there's some really funky mental gyrations.

[Bridget Burke]

2. How do you support your statement?

Saudi Arabia doesn't allow women to vote. But most other predominantly Muslim countries do.

[Possumpoint]

6. Saudi Arabia

and Qatar have Wahhabism as the dominate sect of Islam in their countries. This sect opposes all innovation in Islam, adhering to the strictest interpretation of the Koran. This is a far right extreme wing of the Islamic religion. Reading about them answers why so many zealots originate from there.

[originalpckelly]

3. I thought two gay boys were executed in Iran?

:eyes:

[ck4829]

4. In Iran

Yes, it's very reprehensible. As I said before, you don't want to be gay and in the Middle East. I'm just not looking at it with absolutism.

[Eugene]

5. The Muslim world is very large and diverse. Beware of sweeping generalizations.

Seeing Muslims or Arabs as an undifferentiated mass of fanatics only helps
the extremists on both sides.

Some Muslim societies are moderate to progressive, but don't forget that some,
like Iran or Taliban-ruled Afganistan, are extreme in their interpretation
of Islam.

While Pakistan may look the other way on homosexuality, Iran hangs homosexuals.
The Taliban used to execute them too. Egypt also persecutes homosexuals.

We should not demonize Muslims. At the same time, we should realize that
many find western style "modernism", with its sex, drugs, and permissivenes,
both immoral and offensive.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

7. I'm fairly sure you're wrong about gay rights in Africa, although I'm not sure Muslims are to blame.

"While the Middle East isn't the place to be if you are Gay, Africa is alright, and that even extends into the Muslim population. Africa is much more tolerant of Gay people than many people from the West are." is quite simply untrue. Africa is a continent, not a country, and there may well be some areas where gays are tolerated, but I haven't heard of any.

However, most of the more spectacular intolerance of gays in Africa that I know about is from Christians. I don't know much about the attitudes of African Muslims, but I'm very sceptical about your claim, to be honest.

It's also worth noting that Muslim attitudes to homosexuality in Indonesia, the largest Muslim country in the world (if I remember rightly) are very condemnatory indeed - I think it's a criminal offense there.


I think you're wrong about sex, too - most Muslims are very, very condemnatory of sex outside of marriage, especially by women.


On average, Muslims are more socially conservative that westerners. (N.B. there exists an overlap counted in both averages, before someone tries to accuse me of denying the existence of western Muslims). Western Muslims are on average less socially conservative than non-western Muslims, but more so than western non-Muslims.

[TreasonousBastard]

8. Of the Muslims I have personally known..

I would say that they are overwhelmingly "conservative," but you have to redefine "conservatism" a little.

They are extremely family oriented and while we may not agree with much of their treatment of women, such things as spousal and child abuse are unheard of compared to what we see here in this country-- their understanding of respect for women and children is different from ours, but it is profound. Crime in general tends to be low among them, and they simply will not put up with it. Violence of all kinds is frowned upon, and the relatively few jihadists out there who get all the press are not appreciated. While we know terrible things happen, every Egyptian, Pakistani, etc. I've met is horrifeid by things like stoning adultresses.

They aren't too interested in government programs, but charity is paramount with them and required by the Koran so they support their communities themselves.

Sexually, they aren't quite as repressed as we are, but sex is simply not to be discussed outside of the marriage bed.

Overall, my impression of of the Muslim communities I've seen is that they are the sort of "conservatives" many here claim to be but can't live up to.

Having said that, while each branch if Islam might teach much the same things worldwide, each local area has its own culture affecting their daily lives and actions perhaps more than Islam itself. Like any other religion, it tends to bend to the local customs.