Robert Gibbs: "That's not reality". A message to Democratic legislators.

[Zorra]

When Robert Gibbs said that what he called "the professional left" would be “satisfied when we have Canadian healthcare", and that this is not reality, then what does he consider "reality"?

Is his reality the belief that private commercial enterprise, in this case primarily the health insurance industry, has so much power over our government and political leaders that a universal public healthcare system is out of the question because private commercial enterprise will not allow this to be implemented?

Many polls have indicated that a substantial segment of the population, often a substantial majority of the population, is in favor of universal single payer healthcare.

So...if the people want this type of healthcare system, why can't we have it?

Seems Mr. Gibbs was admitting that our legislators actually do have to be concerned with making deals with private commercial enterprises and legislators that serve these enterprises in order to pass legislation, and that these deals made with private commercial enterprises can result in legislation that conflicts with the wishes and will of the people.

Obviously, this is not democracy.

It appears that we have corporate lords deciding what is best for us. Kind of like feudalism, where the will of wealthy royal landowners supercedes the needs of people.

Personally, I think this totally sucks. I want to have democratic government. I don't want profit seeking enterprises determining what I can and cannot have.

This is what I signed up for:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed...

I also signed up for this:

"and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

In my humble opinion, it is clearly imperative that our political leaders take action immediately, making it their utmost priority, to remove the corporate oligarchy from having any and all influence on our government, in order that government of, by, and for the people be restored. Lobbying by private commercial enterprise must be outlawed, and severe criminal penalties be imposed on anyone or anything (sorry, SCOTUS, but corporations are not persons) that offers any type of compensation to legislators in order to influence that legislators decision regarding legislative action, be that offer spoken, written, or implied.

Mr. Gibbs has just done us a big favor. He has, apparently unwittingly, let us know for sure that our vote no longer really counts, and that the wishes and needs of an ever growing more wealthy and powerful corporate oligarchy take precedence over the will of the people.

How naive and insolent it is of us to even consider having a Canadian style universal single payer healthcare system in America. Absurd. Utterly ridiculous.

I believe that Robert Gibbs believes that "reality" is legislating in accordance with what the corporate oligarchy will allow.

This concept of "reality" is absolutely not acceptable to democrats, and should not be acceptable to any Democrat, particularly the Democrats that I helped vote into office for the specific purpose of carrying out the will of the people.

"The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism — ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power." FDR

Dear Democratic Legislator: Please, fix it.

[LostinVA]

1. k& r -- excellent OP

[YOY]

2. It's reality outside of our borders for many countries.

It works.

Better than the system we have.

Better than the Republican HC Proposition from 1993/Romneycare...which is the raw deal we got and were told to eat shit and smile at this monumental groundbreaking shit sandwich.

There are so many "realities" outside of our borders that I am tired of being told do not exist. They do. I've seen them. They work. We can do them.

Reality does not magically change once inside of the US Borders.

[area51]

26. +1

Each day, 273 people die due to lack of health care in the U.S.; that's 100,000 deaths per year.

We need single-payer health care, not a welfare bailout for the serial-killer insurance agencies.

"We will never have real reform until people's health stops being treated as a financial opportunity for corporations."

[Lydia Leftcoast]

42. Yes, it was a real eye opener for me to live in Japan, which is not even very

progressive by world standards.

Imagine, a country with high-quality education regardless of income level, universal health care with premiums based on income, probably the best mass transit in the world, and a low crime rate.

That's reality for you.

[Marr]

75. No We Can't... do as well as Candada, apparently.

All these talk about "pragmatism" and what's "reality" is about the as far away from "yes we can" as you can get. It's not like we're talking about colonizing Pluto. This is something that's being done lots of places.

[YOY]

76. Been done for years actually. Problems revisited and fixed.

But entirely functional.

Despite what the local "masters of reality" say.

[KakistocracyHater]

82. Hawaii has univeral health coverage-but wait!! they're taking kid's care away

http://www.publicagenda.org/blogs/hawaii-ends-universal-health-coverage-children
..."State officials in Hawaii announced today that they will eliminate funding for its universal health care program for children. The law, implemented just seven months ago, is the only state program of its kind in the country and was intended to provide care to low-income children who could not afford it but weren't eligible for Medicaid."....

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/17/health/main4527996.shtml
oh well....I guess there's the San Francisco model.

[PATRICK]

113. Don't give him any ideas

He'd rather spend a trillion on a launch to Pluto than give a nickel to a public service. They also prefer to dive for nickels from the rich than get millions from the common man.

[golddigger]

3. Wow. Beautifully written. A huge K&R.

[xchrom]

4. I think you have boiled down what the modern fight really is.

Now - I'm going off to get myself drug tested.

[LaurenG]

5. Great! k&r

[Rosa Luxemburg]

6. The reality is the powerful corporate oligarchy take precedence over the will of the people.

and the corporate oligarchy shoudl be reduced to rubble like the Berlin wall.

[bjobotts]

88. I hope that violence doesn't turn out to be the only thing that will stop them but where are our ele

elected heroes? Who can stand up against the corporate media owned oligarchs and still get elected when all of the radio and TV ads have already been bought by huge corporate donors?? Dems have a hard time getting their message out now as they don't have the megaphone of hate radio and their own propaganda cable TV network. Who is left to stand up for truth, justice and the
American way. Only the Palin assassins.

[Enthusiast]

92. Well said-like the Berlin Wall. nt

[dave29]

7. "government of the people, by the people, for the people"

not all "the people" hold the same view on what this government should do/look like.

That is the reality of our Democracy.

[txlibdem]

112. We're living in a giant version of Animal Farm

"All animals are equal."
..... "But some animals are MORE equal than others."

[BeFree]

8. Gibbs is telling us

"It's too hard. We quit trying. What you want is not possible, even tho it would be great for all the 'small' people, there just isn't the will here, in the WH, to get it done. NO, we can't."


Thanks, Zorra, nice piece.

[Octafish]

9. Wall $treet = Reality

And who owns Wall Street?

Top 1 Percent Control 42 Percent of Financial Wealth in the U.S.

The pukes already have a party, the GOP. They shouldn't also feel entitled to own the Democratic Party.

[mod mom]

81. ever wonder why Jackson Stephens (BCCI, WTI, Wal Mart) financed Bill Clinton?

why put all your eggs in one basket when there is two?

[raouldukelives]

10. K&R

Couldn't agree more.

[Cleita]

11. Well put and that is the reality.

Our government is run by corporations and Gibbs outed them.

[Zenlitened]

12. K and enthusiastic R.

Leaving aside the matter of the hapless Mr. Gibbs, I think you have beautifully illuminated the wider problem we must confront, whether on healthcare or any of the major issues:

Many polls have indicated that a substantial segment of the population, often a substantial majority of the population, is in favor of universal single payer healthcare.

So...if the people want this type of healthcare system, why can't we have it?

...our legislators actually do have to be concerned with making deals with private commercial enterprises and legislators that serve these enterprises in order to pass legislation, and that these deals made with private commercial enterprises can result in legislation that conflicts with the wishes and will of the people.

Obviously, this is not democracy.

:applause:

[bluethruandthru]

13. Absolutely true...but what do we do about it?

How can this be fixed? I mean this seriously. When the majority of our politicians - both R's and D's - are beholden to the corporations and only pretend to govern democratically...how can this be solved?

[Zorra]

38. First, we need to unite and recognize that we all have a "clear and present danger",

a common enemy. This is, I believe, going to inevitably happen as corporate control of us continues to grow.

Like people did back before the War for Independence.

Then, we could try the political process, putting pressure on elected legislators, and electing competent legislators that are of the same mind that we are.

Like people tried back before the War for Independence.

If that does not produce results, and we see beyond the shadow of a doubt that the political process will not serve our needs, we take unified economic action and insist that our demands be met.

Kind of like Gandhi did.

If that doesn't work, below is what Jefferson wrote in the Declaration of Independence, which is the continuation of the passage quoted in the OP:

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world."

Kind of like the people did before the War for Independence.

Hopefully, we can reinstitute a government of, by and for the people through the political process. IMO, electing someone like Dennis Kucinich, Bernie Sanders, or Alan Grayson to the Presidency would be a huge step toward reinstituting democracy. I am not advocating violent revolution here. But historically, oppressed peoples have frequently gotten to the point where they wouldn't take it anymore, and when the time and space was right they did whatever they felt was necessary to try to improve their situation as much as possible. I hope our country never reaches this point. I'm just not sure it won't right now, judging by the rapid acceleration of corporate control of our government and lives over the past thirty years.

The recent collapse of the economy caused by the deregulation of the financial industry has caused a great deal of misery to many Americans. This is a perfect example of how every American's lives are affected when private enterprise has too much power and wealth, as well as almost total control of our government.

[FiveGoodMen]

71. Some of the clear and present danger comes from the very people we voted for

And this site does not want us to say so.

How do we work effectively when we're not even allowed to speak the truth "at home?"

[felix_numinous]

107. + 1 trillion

More like a couple "missing trillions"

The party and then enough of the whole country would somehow have to come to this conclusion somehow first, because too many people see each other as the enemy at this time. Mr Obama said he wants to hear from the left, because of all the noise we have made. Well we need to keep up the pressure without pause, hold their feet to the fire to break the bonds with corporate powers, and specifically demand that corporations and (in my view) churches be completely separate from government, education and military.

We the People have got to find a way through this with the least amount of destruction, because if we do not the corporations will certainly do that for us.

[bjobotts]

89. The demonized reality isOnly Democratic Socialism can both ensure our freedom AND our survival thanl

thanks to corporate greed.

[HughBeaumont]

14. "Take your pants down."

Morehouse: Sir?
U.S. Bates: Take your pants down.
U.S. Bates: Well . . . if you value your job.
(Morehouse pulls his pants down)
U.S. Bates: That's reality.



Jack Brown: It's that bad out there?
Moorehouse: Worse.

[Z_I_Peevey]

15. Here's to a real democratic reality

and thanks for putting it so plainly.

K&R

[ProSense]

16. Reality is complex

In my humble opinion, it is clearly imperative that our political leaders take action immediately, making it their utmost priority, to remove the corporate oligarchy from having any and all influence on our government, in order that government of, by, and for the people be restored. Lobbying by private commercial enterprise must be outlawed, and severe criminal penalties be imposed on anyone or anything (sorry, SCOTUS, but corporations are not persons) that offers any type of compensation to legislators in order to influence that legislators decision regarding legislative action, be that offer spoken, written, or implied.

Mr. Gibbs has just done us a big favor. He has, apparently unwittingly, let us know for sure that our vote no longer really counts, and that the wishes and needs of an ever growing more wealthy and powerful corporate oligarchy take precedence over the will of the people.

How naive and insolent it is of us to even consider having a Canadian style universal single payer healthcare system in America. Absurd. Utterly ridiculous.

I believe that Robert Gibbs believes that "reality" is legislating in accordance with what the corporate oligarchy will allow.

Two of the biggest supporters of Citizens United are the ACLU and AFL-CIO, both opposed the DISCLOSE Act, which the President supported.

I believe Gibbs did everyone a favor by exposing the reality that governing is not a tidy process.

Even the ACLU can acknowledge that reversing eight years of dismantling civil liberties will take time.

[YOY]

17. No. No it's not.

n.t.

[ProSense]

20. Yes, it is.

We can't get significant climate change legislation passed because 14 Democrats, including a few progressives, support the coal industry.

[YOY]

23. No. Not really. Spin away though. Screw the good fight.

I've spent my adult life pointing out conservatives are idiots. Why the hell would I stop now?

[ProSense]

25. OK, have it your way, reality and life are simple, fair and

tomorrow the sun will come out.

[YOY]

28. Not really...but you'll never accept blame when it all comes crashing down.

So keep whistlin' Polyanna! That sunrise is gonna be a scorcher!

And the "masters of reality" will reap the whirlwind from the seeds of misinformation and hopelessness that they have sown.

[ProSense]

29. When what all comes crashing down?

I thought it already did by some claims.

More doom, more I did my part, more it's their fault, more I'm pefect why can't everyone do it my way.

In another comment you stated that this is reality in other countries, as if other countries do not have significant issues they're grappling with. Well, you are not in another country, and have to deal with the reality in this country.

[YOY]

31. You have no idea what "reality" is here or elsewhere. You never have and never will.

Reality is where I live and have lived. Reality is the collapse of empires from military over-expansion. Reality is a government that prefers to outsource as much as it can and as a result of the past 30 years of outsourcing is now controlled by more private industry than ever dreamed of. Reality is debt. Reality is a pain. Reality is the knowledge that something very different than the status quo must be done...preferably something that has worked elsewhere to minumize risk. Reality never changes.

Reality is not doing what has already been tried and failed and calling it "progress".

It's not something you can manipulate with group-think or warp like a definition to be repeated until it becomes an accepted truth.

Thing is, 90% of the people here know that. It's very unpragmatic of them.

[ProSense]

33. "It's not something you can manipulate with group-think " Really?

No, really?

I thought it was simple, aren't we all on the same page in simple reality?

[YOY]

35. You definitely are not.

n.t.

[TheKentuckian]

123. Climate change is mired in Congress but the civil liberties issues are under direct command

of the executive.

Congress is obviously extraordinarily negligent in their oversight and of course in weather vane fashion tuck in questionable to unconstitutional hidden gems as well if some batshit moran whines on Fox.

We don't need to discuss the twilight zone that the Supreme Court is except I will say because it doesn't get said enough, sane and failing to be more evil than sin does not mean liberal and moderate does not mean generally absurd but can on occasion touch down in reality.

Yet, somehow this is how even Democrats who should know better insist on accepting the bogus Reich wing frame. It is fucking stupid, please stop using the corporate shorthand.

Anthony Kennedy is one of the most right wing Justices to ever sit on the bench. Just because there are four hardcore fascists that should be impeached doesn't make him moderate in any shape, form, or fashion.

Please stop, it is important to perspective and the framing of the political spectrum.

Anyway, Obama has the authority to shut down the shitting on the Constitution and every fucking thing we are supposed to stand for.
He doesn't have to push for Patriot extensions. He doesn't have maintain Bush's private Army. No one forcing him to operate black sites. He can't be compelled to prosecute via this military commissions.

No one has the authority to have a US citizen murdered away from in hot military conflict without so much as a charge, much less a trial but he declared power well outside his bounds.

That is what limited government means that our government has only such power and authority as granted by law. It is not the bastardization the lugheads spout off of "small government".

Limited government is in effect if it almost nothing or seemingly all pervasive, our government is granted authorities and is not even permitted to take them on.

The entire authority of these elected officers is directly ascribed and derived from the Constitution so by definition no one including the chief executive can take on powers in conflict with it by any means.

Certainly I understand somethings may be impossible to unknot overnight but work should begin day one across the board and motherfucker don't start no new shit!

You make the "mess left" argument hollow when you are institutionalizing much of it and starting a policy that is somehow even more twisted.

Don't give me no rehashed bushshit about the world is a battlefield against these ragtag bands of nationless criminals with the same size navy and air force as the average American and I bet statistically way less.

The terrorist air force is overwhelmed in spades against the fierce squadrons of the private citizens of Idaho and the mighty sailing armada of Lake Cumberland, KY.

Don't give me the aliens invaded or WWIII scenario bullshit for these raggedy bastards.

Time doesn't have a damn thing to do with this, it cannot be tolerated.

[Jakes Progress]

66. Is that the same thing as "It's, you know, hard."

[Jax]

70. Maybe your twisted reality.

You got yours.

[NorthCarolina]

74. Good grief. Don't you ever give it up?

:eyes:

[Forkboy]

99. What? And give up show business?

[Enthusiast]

94. OMG!

Your posts. :puke:

[Forkboy]

98. Thanks for the update on reality, Sherlock.

Ever think about posting something that doesn't rely on someone else's words?

[YOY]

106. Damn our repeatedly lyin' eyes! They deny the DLC 'reality'!!!

n/t

[laughingliberal]

18. K & R nt

[russspeakeasy]

19. BIG FAT KUDOS...WELL WRITTEN...

[sandnsea]

21. No. People do not want single payer

They want universal health care. They want the government to make sure everyone has health care.

That does not equate to wanting single payer.

And that's the entire problem with your diatribe.

[ProSense]

24. It's the alternate reality

in which everything is easy and no one is standing in the way except the administration.

[Zorra]

39. Many polls have indicated differently from what you wrote. nt

[Zorra]

43. Link:

http://www.wpasinglepayer.org/PollResults.html

[sandnsea]

44. They don't ask about eliminating private pay

Except for one in there, from a group I've never heard of, they don't ask about replacing the current system with ONE government plan.

As I said, there is a difference between creating a government plan that all Americans *could* use, if they wanted to...

and creating a government plan that leaves people no other choice.

When you get down into the details of actually doing health care reform, you start to see people object to having only one option.

You had six months to get the public option passed. Nothing was ever good enough. You fought and bickered and spun it six ways from Sunday.

And then we lost Teddy Kennedy's seat, and the chance for a public option.

Reality. You have simply got to deal with it.

[Zorra]

50. OK:

As I said, there is a difference between creating a government plan that all Americans *could* use, if they wanted to...

and creating a government plan that leaves people no other choice.

I haven't heard of anyone in this country proposing universal single payer health care that mandates that there be no choice between using private pay or publicly sponsored. Take Medicare for example. Anyone on medicare can pay out of pocket if they so choose.

When you get down into the details of actually doing health care reform, you start to see people object to only one option.

You had six months to get the public option passed. Nothing was ever good enough. You fought and bickered and spun it six ways from Sunday.

And then we lost Teddy Kennedy's seat, and the chance for a public option.

I believe the chance for a public option ended when it was put off the table by legislators who would not stand up to the health insurance industry because many legislators are beholden the insurance industry because of political campaign contributions or other "compensations".

Reality. You have simply got to deal with it.

Wrong. I'm not bending over, and neither are a whole lot of other folks that are like-minded. It's up to me, us, to change it. that's why we continue to be politically involved even when it seems hopeless sometimes. That's the purpose of the OP. To put forth an idea that might help change reality back from a corporate oligarchy to a democracy. A lot of people seem to agree with the OP.

[sandnsea]

52. No one is suggesting single payer only??

Since when?

The public option was added to legislation in July and August. At that point, it became the public option advocates responsibility to create a movement strong enough to give every legislator the cover to vote for it. YOU FAILED.

Now, if you want to try again, then TRY AGAIN. But don't blame anybody but yourselves if you fail again. You either get the support of the public that translates into campaign support and votes -- or you don't get your ideas put into action.

That's How It Works.

[bluethruandthru]

59. Wrong - That's how it's supposed to work.

Do you really believe that you could get enough of a public outcry for a piddly public option...much less Universal or Single payer...that would force our politicians to vote for it? Not if they were bought and paid for by the Insurance Companies!
It's pretty naive to think that politicians will do what their constituents ask...even if 100 percent of them ask! They do what the corporations tell them to. Whichever corporations write them the largest check gets the politician to vote the way they want.

[hulka38]

78. As if huge campaign contributions have nothing to do with the wretched process.

You have no idea what reality is.

[bvar22]

57. Whoop!!! There it is!

Thanks for the link!

There is a persistent effort to create the meme that "America didn't want Single Payer" by endlessly repeating that BIG LIE!

I have a poll from 2005:

gospel to a real Democratic Party:

1. 65 percent (of ALL Americans, Democrats AND Republicans) say the government should guarantee health insurance for everyone -- even if it means raising taxes."

http://alternet.org/story/29788/

Here is another poll taken in Massachusetts immediately after voters gave Ted Kennedy's seat to a Republican:

* Would you favor or oppose the national government offering everyone the choice of a government administered health insurance plan — something like the Medicare coverage that people 65 and older get — that would compete with private health insurance plans?

Favor 82%

Oppose 14%

Not Sure 4%
http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010010320/poll-shouts-message-massachusetts-voters-were-sending

And the results of defying The People?

"When given the choice between a Republican, and a Democrat who acts like a Republican, the voters will choose the Republican every time." ---Harry Truman

QED Massachusetts

Once again, Thanks for the TRUTH!

[sandnsea]

97. These aren't single payer

Is that your point?

Guarantee health insurance

Offer choice that would compete with private insurance

These don't say that Americans want a single payer plan like Canada's. They say the opposite.

Maybe if people had been organizng for the public option, instead of single payer, we'd have gotten it. Every time someone says "single payer", they lose 3/4 of the public and the politician they're trying to persuade, especially if it's a rural state politician.

[Forkboy]

100. Considering your baseless charge against me yesterday that you fled from....

...how serious should I take you here?

[sandnsea]

101. What the hell are you talking about? n/t

[Forkboy]

102. That's what I was wondering about you the other night when you accused me of shit that wasn't true.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8930924&mesg_id=8930982

[sandnsea]

103. So you praised the stimulus?

Sorry. I missed that.

I think if there were more people praising the elements of the stimulus that are helping people, we wouldn't have so many low income people saying they're going to support the Republican in 2012. Instead they think they're getting their food stamps cut, when they don't even know they got an increase in the first place. I didn't know you had been a stimulus advocate, making sure everyone knew how much they got in that bill. Very sorry.

[Forkboy]

119. I didn't praise it or trash it. I haven't said anything on it.

But anything that increases Food Stamps would meet with my approval.

As for the Food Stamp increase, that hasn't happened, and I'm not sure why you think it has. I went from 162/month last year to just 30/month this year. If that's an increase I'd like to know how. And everybody I know on them has seen the amount drop, though not as dramatically as mine did. But no one's has gone up in the last year or two. Not a one of them. When you tell me there's been an increase and yet I can with my own eyes (and wallet) that it's not the case it makes it hard to understand where you're coming from on this. What you say sounds good, but the reality of anyone I know on Food Stamps, myself included, simply doesn't bear it out. :shrug:

Maybe other DUers on Food Stamps will chime in and tell us if they've seen an increase. Maybe some have gotten one, but no one I know has.

[sandnsea]

122. My daughter's went up

And if your food stamps dropped that dramatically, it's because you either got a job or other increase in your income. You know that. You think I don't know how these programs work??

Food stamps increased, and that increase will stay in place until 2014.

"Federal stimulus money is trickling down to low-income families in the Northwest. Beginning Wednesday, food stamp benefits are increasing by 13.6 percent nationwide.

In Oregon, that means $16-$24 more per month, per person. And in Washington, about $20 more."


http://news.opb.org/article/4667-stimulus-funds-increase-food-stamp-benefits/

[L0oniX]

22. K & R x 1000

[alsame]

27. Excellent piece. K&R

[AndyA]

30. K&R.

How long do they think we will continue to support them, when they don't support us? :shrug:

[Demeter]

32. You Need to Give The "Leadership" Options:

As in: "Fix it, or we'll take you out of your cushy job and cancel YOUR universal single payer health care plan."

[OHdem10]

34. Conservadems think in absolutes and they are right. They share

this trait with their fellow Conservative Republicans.

[TCJ70]

36. But we now have one entire political base, republicans...

...convinced that government is bad and corporations are good. For some reason they refuse to see it though. Unfortunately, this causes Gibbs comments to reinforce the rights view that us lefties are crazy and don't matter...but the odd part is they'll still insist Obama is some kind of socialist. The cognitive dissonance is disturbing...

[OHdem10]

48. This is just to smear Obama(Socialist), hoping that he will be so

weakened he cannot win a second term. It is similar to the birthers
calling for his birth certificate.

They know all this is BS, but if it weakens Obama in the eyes of
enough Americans for him to lose the election, that is all that
matters.

[Gman]

37. LOL! People here still can't help themselves over Gibbs' remarks

Gibbs didnt' lie. He told some truths that people know full well are true but they just don't want anyone talking about. So they go into their victim mode.

LOL!!

[Zorra]

41. Sure. Whatever. nt

[TheKentuckian]

45. Gibbs is a liar. His premise is false.

[EFerrari]

47. That's not reality. n/t

[bvar22]

58. Gibbs DID tell the truth.

The Truth:
Democrats who want to End the perpetual WARS,
Decrease Military Spending,
and provide Americans with a quality of Health Care that is taken for granted by every other civilized country in the WORLD...

THESE Democrats are NOT WELCOME in the "New Democrat" Party that currently controls the White House.

Gibbs told the truth.

[Forkboy]

61. Yep. Gibbs did me a favor, I feel.

[Nay]

105. Yeah, he did me a favor, too, Forkboy. I no longer believe a word

anyone says, and I simply watch what they do. And I'm plenty unhappy with what they're doing. I am happy I have dual citizenship with Canada, and hope to move back there very soon.

[glitch]

62. By removing all doubt he released us from providing any more benefit.

For that, I thank him. Of course he's still a jackass, but that is not my concern.

[defendandprotect]

84. Let's get rid of the "New Democrats" and move on to MEDICARE FOR ALL ... and less MIC...!!

[Jackpine Radical]

40. I'm proud to award you the Railroad Spike Award,

given for nailing it with precision.

[Zorra]

64. Thanks.

Couldn't have written it without learning from so many of the people here at DU, so I'll have to pass it around.

Hopefully, the spike will help keep the vampires away.

[Jackpine Radical]

69. Why did they pull up the tramway tracks on K Street?

All the railroad spikes made the vampires nervous.

[Enthusiast]

96. Nice...nt

[old mark]

46. Thanks, Zorra - excellent! Rec. I am tired of being told what is "acceptable" thinking

by the employees of the guy I helped elect to change our country.
It is sad that we have to take the lobbyists into account over the will of the citizens when we think about what is doable in the USA...I guess we don't pay congress enough to actually have them working for us...
Maybe we should try to get the President to change some of this?

Fired up?
Some other time, thanks.

mark

[sandnsea]

53. It's about "doing", not just thinking

Think whatever you want. It doesn't mean squat if you can't get the votes to DO anything about it.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

109. How many committee positions were threatened?

How many times was "We'll support a primary opponent" or "Funds are too scarce for your re-election bid" used?
Why weren't the Senate rules changed?
etc


"Can't get the votes" or "Won't get the votes?" Think about it.

[EFerrari]

49. Well done.

[anarch]

51. these drugged up loonies expect common citizens (aka the small people) to have a voice

or any kind of input whatsoever into government policy, government programs, or anything else...and that's not reality! Just shut up and accept whatever we shove down your fucking throats, peons! If you've got a job, you're lucky! If you're not in prison, you're lucky! If you haven't been driven from your home (yet), you're lucky! So shut up, accept our reality, and fall in line, you goddamn serfs! Or else!

[grahamhgreen]

54. Very well said. REC nt

[Laelth]

55. Spot on. k&r n/t

-Laelth

[The Wizard]

56. How many members of Congress

have access to off shore accounts through paper corporations and third parties?

[harun]

60. Because Gibbs knows we don't live in a Democracy. We live in a Corporate

Representative Republic.

[sabrina 1]

63. And it's not the first time Gibbs bowed to Corporate power

in public.

When reporters asked him why the Government didn't take over BP after the oil spill, he looked astonished at the suggestion, and responded 'we can't do that, they are a Private Corporation'.

People were pretty stunned by his response since to most normal people who didn't know we had already turned our country over to Corporations, taking over BP seemed like a logical solution.

Not only has he accepted the demise of Democracy, he appears to approve of it.

And that explains why they do not fight. It is NOT that they 'don't have the votes' it is that they see this country differently than the rest of us and because they themselves are profiting from the coup, they will not fight.

Excellent OP.

[FiveGoodMen]

72. Gibbs is just a mouthpiece.

Let's put the blame where it belongs.

[amborin]

65. &R

[Odin2005]

67. "This is not Reality" = "My Corporatist Masters are in charge, so STFU, proles".

[nashville_brook]

68. right on. big k and r.

[politicalmajority]

73. Robert Gibbs Should Simply Resign and Get Lost

I don't need to hear his lame excuses.

[rhett o rick]

87. An important point is that it isnt Gibbs. He is just pointing out the problem. He is the messanger.

We live in an oligarchy. Learn to love it or die.

[tavalon]

77. Thanks Zorra

In a right and just world, that would leave a mark - the mark of zorra.

[OwnedByFerrets]

79. Democracy is dead in Washington...has been for some time now

[gateley]

80. We can CHANGE the reality, Gibbs. Bush and Cheney did it all the time. nt

[defendandprotect]

83. K&R -- Great point . . . when Gibbs spilled his guts it was really very enlightening....

if you give it some thought!!

And you did!!

Every other nation has universal health care for its citizens --

USA can only afford a MIC -- and pre-owned and pre-bribed elected officials???

[R. P. McMurphy]

85. k & r n/t

[rhett o rick]

86. Gibbs means that reality means we live in an oligarchy. The left must just accept it. nm

[meowomon]

90. Excellent!! k&r

[Enthusiast]

91. K&R! No question about it.

As a nation this should be our most pressing issue. Limiting corporate influence on the political process.

And we should take steps to insure fairness in the media. We watched a corporate contrived smoke screen group-the Tea Party disrupters-ruin any chance of having reasonable health care reform discussions.

If we achieved only those two objectives our democracy could heal.

We don't need enablers like Robert Gibbs. We need more consumer advocates like Ralph Nader.

[Zorra]

120. "If we achieved only those two objectives our democracy could heal".

"Limiting corporate influence on the political process."

"take steps to insure fairness in the media"

Agreed. One good session of Congress focused primarily on these two objectives would raise public awareness of these issues and could lead to very major reform. That would be the foundation, the starting point, of the process of healing our democracy. Without that foundation, it will impossible for any significant progress to be made in any facet of our democracy, because anything not built on that foundation will be built on some corporate serving bullshit patty.

Corporate influence on the political process would have to be kept in a stranglehold, if not eliminated entirely, because weasely corporate lawyers can always find loopholes around just about any law that displeases their client(s).

Thanks for bringing this up. I should have put this idea in the OP.

But that's one of the great things about DU, we build on each others knowledge and ideas.

[Enthusiast]

121. We're at a crisis point in our history.

The electorate stood up after living the abuses during Bush. We elected what we thought would be responsible legislators and a executive side that would lead us to reforms. We desperately needed these reforms and the voters knew it. We didn't get the reforms we needed.

Gibbs doesn't seem to understand that the electorate did something extraordinary in 2006 and 2008. They did this because they wanted an end to Republican policies. Now, especially after Citizens United, we need these legislators to step up more than ever. Of course we're pissed off when we get a watered down piece of legislation full of loopholes.

Either the Obama Administration is clueless and out of touch or they know exactly what they are doing. One or the other. I hope they are only clueless.

[leftstreet]

93. K&R

[PA Democrat]

95. Single payer advocacy groups such as the Physicians for a National Health Plan were EXCLUDED

from the health care debate. A large segment of the population of this country had NO representation during health care reform. Conversely, White House logs show that AHIP (Assoc. of Health Insurance Providers), a lobbyist for the insurance companies, had frequent access to White House officials.

As you stated, that's not democracy.

[Major Hogwash]

104. It's because the spoon doesn't really bend.

You just think it does.

If they tell us they are "working" for us 8 times, are we supposed to believe them on the 9th time we hear that?
How about when they tell us that 14 times?
Or 23 times?

Which leads me to the bottom line -- I'll believe it when I see it.
Millions of Americans have lost their jobs, their homes, and their hope.

Guess what the politicians lost?
Nothing!

98% of all incumbents are still being reelected!!
How the fuck can that be???

There are no changes, just changing the way they say it.

Did "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" end in time for Lt Colonel Victor Fehrenbach?
No.

Do we have universal healthcare?
No.

Look at all those new jobs!
No, there aren't any of those either.

Wow, Wall Street sure has been reigned in, though.
Yeah, that's why the banks are increasing different fees for different services.

And those helpful credit card companies have been regulated now huh?
That's why 39% won't be the top interest rate they charge for much longer, they're going to increase it to 44% and then be sure to tell you that you can't pay it off for 40 years by making the minimum payment now.

[Usrename]

110. Bravo!

:applause:

[geckosfeet]

108. 'Seems Mr. Gibbs was admitting that our legislators actually do have to be concerned with making'

'Seems Mr. Gibbs was admitting that our legislators actually do have to be concerned with making deals with private commercial enterprises and legislators that serve these enterprises in order to pass legislation, and that these deals made with private commercial enterprises can result in legislation that conflicts with the wishes and will of the people.'

That is the elephant in the room that they all dance around isn't it.

[Spheric]

111. K&R Spot on. /nt

[MissDeeds]

114. Well said

K&R

:kick:

[metapunditedgy]

115. I love to hear the truth exposed. n/t

[txlibdem]

116. Here's the reality

The top 1% tripled its income since 1979, the middle and bottom saw a 15% increase but when corrected for inflation...

"the Top 1% has more than triple its income with fairly steady growth since 1980. The middle and lower classes have seen only about a 15% increase in real income with all of those gains coming after the early 90s."

http://modeledbehavior.com/2010/07/22/income-inequality-a-deeper-look/

[defendandprotect]

117. Kick -

[Barack2theFuture]

118. the corporate oligarchy no longer even tries to hide it.

They now control *everything*, starting with the electoral process, so there is no longer any point in zealously preserving the illusion.