Rubio's comments are reprehensible.

[SoCalDem]

Cuban "Hispanics" are different... and he knows it.

First & second generation Cuban-Americans benefited from "instant" welcomes, and there was never any need to "hide".

My own family escaped Castro in the early '60s, and even though they came here with nothing, they WERE welcomed with open arms.. Their children & grandchildren never had to worry for one second about being "sent home".

Of course these days, the ones who still arrive, are more impoverished (and usually darker-skinned) than the earlier waves of Cubans, but for those people, all they have to do is make "dry land", and they get to stay too..

The whole "Hispanic immigration thing" is about MEXICANS and to some degree, the other Central American countries..

It's hard to get here from any place that involves boat or plane travel, but if there is a land connection, people WILL come here (and have been for CENTURIES)

Even Canadians come here, but no one "cares" because most of them are educated, they speak English and yes..most of them are very white.

So Rubio (and any other well-to-do-Cuban) really has no more of a connection to the right-now immigration issue than any non-Mexican/non-Central American.

Their darker complexions & uniquely Central American "features" are impossible for them to "hide", so they are always under scrutiny. The early emigres from Castro's Cuba were mostly "very" European-looking, and once they learned English, they had little trouble blending in.. (My grandparents never learned English, but even though they were "Cuban", my abuelo was born in Spain & my abuela was born in France)

The poorer (and darker) Cubans were left behind because they could not afford the plane fare to Miami..

Marco's family history is probably similar.. and shame on him for claiming to "know" about the issue "because he's Hispanic" too..

It's about class & poverty.. In our society, Mexicans (and the other poor central americans who try to come here) are considered unworthy of citizenship here.

[Mika]

1. Cubans are granted special immigration perks that are offered to no other immigrant group by the USA

Cubans are granted special immigration perks that are offered to no other immigrant group seeking entry into the US.

Immigrants come to the US from all over the world - from democratic countries. They come here for opportunities to earn more money than they could back at home. They come to work so that they can send a little of their earnings back to their relatives. It has little to do with "despotic' regimes, it has more to do with earning power.

Cuba is a special case though, in that it is the US's Helms-Burton law (and a myriad of other sanctions) that are intended to cripple the Cuban economy. This is the stated goal of the US government, as evidenced by the Bush* admin's latest 'crackdown' on family remittances to Cuba and increased sanctions on the island and US & foreign corporations that seek to do business with Cuba.

The USA currently offers over 20,000 LEGAL immigration visas per year to Cubans (and the Bush admin increased that number despite the fact that not all 20,000 were applied for in the last few years). This number is more than any other single country in the world. The US interests section in Cuba does the required criminal background check on the applicants.

The US's 'wet foot/ dry foot' policy (that applies to Cubans only) permits all Cubans, including Cuban criminals and felons, who arrive on US shores by illegal means to remain in the US even those having failed to qualify (or even apply) for a legal US immigration application.

Cubans who leave for the US without a US visa are returned to Cuba (if caught at sea - mainly in smuggler's go-fast boats @ $5,000 per head) by a US/Cuban repatriation agreement. But IF they make it to US soil, no matter who they are or what their criminal backround might be, they get to stay in the US and enjoy perks offered ONLY TO CUBAN IMMIGRANTS (via the US's Cuban Adjustment Act and a variety of other 'Cubans only' perks)

For Cuban migrants ONLY - including the aforementioned illegal immigrants who are smuggled in as well as those who have failed a US background check for a legal visa who make it here by whatever means - the US's Cuban Adjustment Act instantly allows any and all Cuban migrants who touch US shore (no matter how) instant entry, instant work visa, instant green card status, instant social security, instant access to welfare, instant access to section 8 assisted housing (with a $41,000 income exemption for Cuban expats only), instant food stamps, plus more. IOW, extra special enhanced social programs designed to entice Cuban expatriation to Miami/USA.

Despite these programs designed to offer a 'carrot on a stick' to Cubans only, the Cubaphobe rhetoric loop repeats the question "why do Cubans come to the US then?".

First the US forces economic deprivation on Cubans, then open our doors to any and all Cubans illegal or not, and then offer them a plethora of immigration perks and housing perks not even available to native born Americans.

But yet, more immigrants come from Mexico and the Latin Americas than do Cubans, and they have no such "Adjustment Act" like Cubans do. But they still pour in.

Plus, Cuban immigrants can hop on a plane from Miami to Havana and travel right back to the Cuba that they "escaped" from for family trips and vacations, now that Mr Obama has granted Cuban-Americans and Cuban resident aliens their full constitutional right to unfettered travel.

Recognizing the immorality of forced starvation and forced economic deprivation is a good reason to drop the US embargo on Cuba, the US Cuban Adjustment Act, and the US travel sanctions placed on US citizens and residents. Then the Cuban tourism economy (its #1 sector) would be able to expand even faster, thereby increasing the average wage and quality of life in Cuba. It would make products, goods, and services even more accessible to both Cubans and Americans. It would reduce the economic based immigration flow from Cuba. And it would restore our own constitutional right to travel unfettered to see Cuba for ourselves.


Thanks for this thread pointing out that Rubio is a sack of shit!

:hi:


on edit: I should mention that I have lived in Cuba and I have in-laws there.

---

[jaysunb]

21. You never see Afro-Cubans running to Miami

Funny how that is, huh ? :evilfrown: unless they play baseball, of course.

[Artie Bucco]

2. With the way demographics are changing the hard line Cuban community is losing clout...

the younger Cuban-Americans don't have the same hard line attitudes that their parents have that and terms of demographics they are outnumbered by Salvadorans, who now make up the third largest Hispanic group after Mexicans and Puerto Ricans.

[SoCalDem]

5. I never understood why so many Cubans became republican, in the first place

My grandmother had two pictures in her dining room.. Kennedy & Johnson:)

[Scurrilous]

3. K & R

:thumbsup:

[BrklynLiberal]

4. It was the rich and well-off..economically and socially..that fled Castro's Cuba.

For Rubio to claim any affinity with the Hispanic community that is fleeing to the US today is the ultimate in hypocrisy, if not just plain lying.

[Mika]

12. Most Cubans that are here are not Batistanos.

The Batista supporting 1959-1965 era Cuban immigrants are the minority of Cuban migrants since the Mariel boatlift (1980).

The vast majority of Cuban immigrants since then are not Batista era Cubans.

Plus, the second generation Cuban-Americans are more inclined to the Democratic Party as normalization of trade and travel relations with Cuba.

:hi:

---

[BrklynLiberal]

24. That is good news. Do you know anything of Rubio's roots?

[SoCalDem]

26. Rubio's parents are "first wavers"..

They were probably pretty elite IN Cuba, but once in the US, they had to start at the bottom..

An uncle of mine had a PHD in physics & taught at the university in Havana, and he ended up working at a tire store, changing tires...(until his english was better, and he had taken classes at a college in Miami)

family bio: this is a very in-depth article

http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/2010-07-22/news/marco-rubio-has-risen-with-lightning-speed-but-conservatives-alone-can-t-carry-him-to-the-white-house/2/
they came here in 1959


snip

In 1959, the young family immigrated to the United States and briefly moved to New York before settling in Miami, where both parents found work in a factory stitching nylon beach chairs together. Mario Sr. soon found a better job as a bar back and bartender in the newly flourishing hotels along the sand in Miami Beach. This allowed Oria some time to raise Mario and his sister Barbara, who was born in 1960. Later, she went back to work as a stock clerk and swept floors at Kmart.

snip

[alstephenson]

6. K & R

Thanks for posting.

[TheDebbieDee]

7. I have known since day 1 that this immigration issue

was about slowing down the "browning" of America because the European decendents are afraid of becoming a minority here.

"The undocumented are taking all the entry-level jobs!" meme was started to cause static between the African-American community and the Hispanic community........"Divide and Conquer!"

Everytime I hear an African-American say something negative about undocumented workers or illegal immigrants or how illegals are are taking over the country, I clue them into this "Divide and Conquer" repuke strategy and how well it must be working because I just heard this person repeating repuke memes!

ETA: K&R!

[csziggy]

8. Growing up in Central Florida in the 60s there was a huge distinction

Between Cuban Americans - even recently immigrant Cubans - and Mexican descent people.

Generally the people of Cuban descent had no problem getting jobs, getting documentation, being accepted into Anglo society and generally being allowed to become fully participant Americans.

Mexicans on the other hand were treated very much like blacks in the pre-integration period. They had trouble getting documentation, jobs beyond fruit and vegetable picking were nearly impossible for them to get, most housing was closed to them, and they were in many cases treated worse than the blacks in Southern towns.

In second grade I was friends with a girl whose parents were migrant workers, but my parents disapproved of the friendship. On the other hand, Mom was happy for her cousin who married a second generation Cuban American. I still do not understand why there was this dichotomy.

[lumberjack_jeff]

9. Are Hatians Hispanic?

I've never really thought of Cubans as Hispanic either.

[Mika]

13. The DU mods think that Cuba & Haiti topics belong in the Latin America forum.

:rofl:

DU's Latin America forum
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=405

---

[TheDebbieDee]

25. I think Haitians are descendents of African slaves, French

colonials and whatever indigenous Native Americans that were already inhabiting the western side of the island.

[The Backlash Cometh]

10. In the social strata thing among Hispanics,

on the top of the list for the most arrogant are Cubans.

Argentinians don't count because they think they're European.

[Artie Bucco]

14. Ehh

Argies might be sanctimonious and full of themselves but ones I have met have been no where near as bad as Cubans, especially the established second or third generation ones.

[Mika]

16. Hold it now! You mean EX-Cubans.

They are exiles. Not Cubans.

Real Cubans you meet in Cuba.

Of course, Americans are travel banned by our own government from going there to meet real Cubans.

PLEASE, don't measure Cuba using Miami as the metric.

---

[Artie Bucco]

17. Yup

The exiles. The conversation was about the Hispanic pecking order in the US.

[The Backlash Cometh]

18. Do they think of themselves as EX-Cubans?

[glowing]

11. As I've understood from "hispanic" populations.. the pecking order

Is first Puerto Ricans, who only need a driver's liscence to travel (they are a common wealth and are a part of the US). Then its the Cuban's, who just have to touch soil and they are welcomed in.. Miami isn't called little Cuba/ Havannah for nothing. Then its Dominicans (with lighter being more welcomed than darker, unless you are a great baseball player). Then there are shades of color within the Mexican community. Remaining as white as possible is a big thing. I had one girl who I worked with that is lighter, she covers her head, arms and legs (and this is Florida and its hot) and never goes to the beach. Lighter skin got her the better perks and the "wealthier" men.

So, just putting all spanish speaking persons in one big category is a huge no-no. They keep their own communities together. Should they come together as one group and drop their own prejudiced ideas, they would be a greater force of threat to politicians and communities. At least where in the case of Florida that has many many different communities of hispanic populations.

[customerserviceguy]

15. I have to say, I agree with your observations

Back when I lived in the Pacific NW, the overwhelming majority of Hispanic people were of Mexican origin, and I really didn't know about the gradations that you write of. Now that I've been over here for more than three years, I've seen what you speak of. My Cuban friend hates being compared with people of Mexican decent, who he considers somewhat inferior, much in the same way that the English considered the Irish a century ago.

[glowing]

20. Its different countries, different histories, different govts, and different ways in which

European conquerers divided and treated local populations.. along with importing slaves from Africa. Its like saying all of European countries are the same... They may share some similar charecteristics in languages, color, living standards, yet try telling a German he's the same as a Frenchman.. you'd be lucky not to get punched... So, when we group different populations of spanish speaking countries (and not all south american/ islands/ speak spanish even), we, by stupidity mostly, look and sound like idiots.. and do a great disservice to creating a better America.

Minorities are overtaking the total population counts in at least 4 states at this point. I believe its 3rd or 4th generation that immigrant families are "Americanized". First generation will keep and uphold traditions and culture and heritage.. hold the cards close to the vest. Stay strong with family and other "countrymen". The second generation born in or immigrating very young will be taught the original traditions and know the language (if differing language than English). The third generation generally assumes similar traditions, normally knows the language, yet English is their first and most understood language. 4th generation normally will go outside of the traditions in religion, marriage, living arrangements, and may not know a different language any better than any other American child.

I dated a man whose family origins were from Puerto Rico, and while some of his family members knew Spanish, he and his brother knew about as much as I did... And they dated "outside" their "community". Their uncle laughed at them for looking "pueto Rican", but not even knowing what he was saying about them in Spanish. Even though Peurto Rico is US, its is different as far as custom and heritage. I believe that they were 3rd or 4th generation on their side to have been in the US. They identified more strongly with southern (south carolina) traditions, than cultural heritage traditions.

[VioletLake]

19. What did Rubio say? Link please. n/t

[SoCalDem]

22. I don't have a link.. It was a soundbyte on MSNBC

to paraphrase...he was "concerned" and implied that because HE was Hispanic, he alone could "understand" the complexity of the immigration issue..

[VioletLake]

23. Thanks, I'll probably see it later.

It's not because he's Hispanic that he's a lying opportunist. He's a Republican.

A better person would lend their insight to compassion.