There is a "revolution" coming...

[kentuck]

It is on the way.

Either you move or you will be run over.

It's not between the worker and the employer. It between the common citizen and his government. It is time to demand more from our government and our representatives.

We want good schools with good education. We want healthcare for all our people. We want a more fair tax code. We want jobs back in this country. We want the bloated military budget cut. We want to save our Social Security system. We will no longer accept bigotry and hatred. We will no longer accept the status quo.

Are you going to join this movement? Or are you just gonna stand there and get run over??

It is coming...




.

[notesdev]

1. I rec'd

but apparently those who love the government more than their fellow man have gotten here first

[elocs]

68. Once again we see an OP that is so important that the 1st response is used to point out UnRecs.

It currently has 123 Recs and is on the front page so I think the hand wringing was premature.

[patrice]

2. YYYyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee HHHhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!

LET'S DO THIS THING!!!

[jtuck004]

3. I recc'd your post, of course, but all the stuff you are talking

about takes organizing, and I don't see it happening. A bunch of mad or depressed individuals are just a bunch of powerless (and potentially unemployed) individuals. Who is organizing anything to stop this? 'Cause that's what it's gonna take ;)

[Hannah Bell]

5. +100

[kentuck]

8. First, you believe.

.

#2 You educate.

#3 It takes time.

#4 We agree with our political adversaries that our government needs change. We join them in that cause. We will agree to discuss political differences later. That is the beginning.

#5 We need to look at it as a modern-day constitutional convention.

#6 We can present to our Congress and Senate the laws and amendments that we want passed. If they disagree, then they will be on the list to be replaced in the next election.

#7. Some of the first laws or amendments we will request will include:
public financing of elections,
a flat tax on everyone's FICA taxes,
a progressive income tax,
wages tied to productivity as they were until the late 1970's,
equal rights for everyone,
an end to the wars,
and cuts in the bloated military budget.
and an increase in the tax rate to equal the Reagan tax rates.

#8 That is the procedure that needs to be followed.

[elocs]

69. First, revolutions do not "request" but "demand" (how very polite to request, though).

Second, any kind of constitutional convention will result in the Law of Unintended Consequences coming into play where those who do not think things through get bit in the ass--big time.

Elections mean that everybody gets to vote, not just the left or progressives.

Got votes?

[kentuck]

70. It's coming....

How we deal with it is up to us. Whether we believe it or not is up to us. We do not encourage torches and pitchforks. They will not work.

[readmoreoften]

59. +1 (although there is organizing going on and I encourage people to join in)

[bluesmail]

60. I wouldn't advertise a revolution if I was serious about it. eom

[kentuck]

64. It doesn't matter if it is advertised or not...

Once it begins, it cannot be stopped.

[bluesmail]

71. I'm not in disagreement with you, my point it that is would be squashed before

it could get started, what with all the evil technologies we know don't exist (but do in reality).

[kentuck]

73. The can squash it by pitting one side against another.

If the people are united in their one goal of changing government, regardless of political Party, then it would be very difficult to squash.

That is why we cannot look at the Tea Party as an enemy but as an enemy of our enemy. Only by being united can we change the government. United we stand, divided we fall.

Or we can continue to believe that the government will change to help the people? That they will no longer be captured by the corporations and the special interests.

The only step that is important is for government to fear the people. So long as we fight over "issues", we will accomplish nothing. Only when we unite under one goal will we be able to change course.

Perhaps it is impossible? But is there any other way??

[bluesmail]

87. Yes, divide and conquer. Like I said, I am not disagreeing with

your OP. I'm at a retired age, I've lived through assassinations and countless coups. NWO. How long has that been going on in secret? We more than likely will never know. :hi:

[Radical Activist]

102. No kidding.

Which is exactly why ACORN had to be destroyed.

[opihimoimoi]

4. K&R #6......if we can get to the damn MOON...why should there be a prob to solve anything??

What is the damn holdup???

[GeorgeGist]

96. The holdup?

Not enough science!

[opihimoimoi]

134. Yes, among other things,,,,not enough Science....

[loudsue]

6. Only one side wants health care. One side wants public schools, one "privatized" schools

One side wants to reduce the military budget, and the other side wants to reduce social security. It's not just the government that we would be fighting against: it's their minions. This is a civil war as well as a rebellion. That, my friend, is why there hasn't been the beginning of a true revolution. Nobody's on the same side as anybody else.

We have the media and the republican party to thank for that.

[defendandprotect]

125. Let's remember the T-baggers are bought, paid for and directed by GOP and PR firm...!!!

Most of the world understands the value of social programs -- so if any

of these people don't, it's because they've been lied to, misinformed, disinformed

about their stake in government -- and especially re how Social Security works and

what it actually does, beyond seniors!

A huge marjority were "on the same side" in electing Obama --

evidently so many of us that some say that Dems should have had 24 more Congressional

reps -- that can't be denied -- and 76%+ of Americans wanted single payer/government run

health care -- and that included Catholics who also wanted reproductive care, birth

control and abortion included!

Obama/DLC lost these voters -- by accident?

[Odin2005]

7. K&R

[Bryn]

9. Can I steal your comment to post on my facebook?

I will give you a credit like this "by kentuck".

[kentuck]

10. It is there for your "stealing".

Otherwise, it would not be a successful start to the "revolution".

UNITED WE STAND - DIVIDED WE FALL

[Bryn]

12. Thank you

:hi: K&R

[Patchuli]

11. K&R

:patriot:

[laughingliberal]

13. K & R nt

[LawnKorn]

14. We need to get out of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan

We just can't afford them. We never could.

[LawnKorn]

15. K&R

[sufrommich]

16. Be careful what you wish for. Not all revolutions move to

the left and I have a difficult time imagining this country doing so.

[defendandprotect]

139. You're worried about 76%+ of us who wanted single payer/universal health care?

There are polls and there are polls -- as Chomsky has often explained --

the elites have to do honest polls so they know where they are -- and where

they are is they can't allow one bit of truth to reach the public!

They need to control every bit of information reaching the public --

Truth is like a pebble hitting a mirror -- it shatters myths immediately!


Most of what you're seeing is rw propaganda -- from Terri Shaivo to rw religion

in America -- keep in mind the GOP funded the start up of the Christian Coalition --

most of it is financed by rw wealthy -- Dobson was funded by Richard Scaife --

and other wealthy rw funded Bauer's org.


Look at the continuing war on homosexuality -- much of it funded Mormon Church -- Prop 8 --

Not unlike the campaign against the ERA in the 70's financed with tax-exempt dollars

from the RCC and the Mormon Church!


Tale literally what Chomsky has said ... "We create the reality the rest of you live it--"

[Jeffersons Ghost]

17. K&R!!!

[mmonk]

18. Reporting for duty.

[mwb970]

19. But isn't our fight against the corporations and their enablers in the government?

If we attack the government itself, in the manner of the teabaggers, won't we be taking out the only mechanism in the system for citizens to have a voice? What about improving the government instead of attacking it?

[FredStembottom]

29. Thanks, mwb970!

We need different PEOPLE in the government. We don't need a different government.
Our government is already set up to be whatever the people elected to it want it to be.
We must choose our candidates outside of the dictates of the 2 parties.

Like Virg Bernero in Michigan.

[iamthebandfanman]

84. yup,

you have to know who you are fighting..

election laws need to be changed.
this is all about money.

we take the money out, and make sure there is no gain for any one industry over another, and we have solved the problem as corporations will see their attempts are useless.

once we win this country back for THE PEOPLE , and not a corporations(even though the SC thinks they are a person), THEN we can work on the actual system of governing.

clearly the system is broken,
but only because of outside influences at the moment.


you will never solve the problem if you keep ignoring the issue that caused the problem.



first comes election reform ... then comes nationalisation of vital industries...

[Gravel Democrat]

20. k/r it's the elites vs streets

we streets have the ingenuity that the elites can't even imagine

"Drain the Swamps" Random picks from a big city phone book would produce a better congress

[RandomThoughts]

25. You notice that concept in many stories

The status quo stagnates and corrupts, so you see many stories where commoners replace status quo.


Man In The Iron Mask
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRal_feCStc

A bit of a shift, but interesting.

Count of Monte Crisco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRfXnEKqLxM


I do not think hard times are required for the sake of hard times, like the ideas of it creating strength, but know that things can be hard because of how some act, and think people should not shirk hard times if they can lead to better results by better measure, and then from that intent strength occurs.

Hard times and suffering do not create strength, going on despite of them does. In that creating hard times is not the objective, but not backing down from things that create hardship, even if that is hard.

It is not supporting hardships it is pulling up by the bootstraps. If you think people should be treated badly to find the best in them, you do not take the hard task of helping them.

People that talk of pull up by bootstraps do not live that idea. They are hypocritical unless they have it hard also. Although I think they should be helped also.

[Skidmore]

21. How many employers are willing to join that revolution?

Until that happens in droves, then it is between the worker and the employer.

[immune]

23. Employers ...

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong here, but many republican small business people really believe the right wing radicals are speaking of them when they claim to be in favor of tax breaks for "small" business. It all depends on the definition of "small" and if that misconception could be countered and the truly small business owners could be made to understand that they aren't even considered in that grouping by the movers and shakers who write the rules, I think many more employers would join the revolution.

[Silent3]

22. Whose revolution?

I'd say there are more angry teabaggers out there, on the ragged edge and closer to doing crazy shit, than there are revolutionaries on the left.

If any sort of "revolution" happens, I think most on DU would be desperate to have the status quo back compared to what we'd likely end up with.

[SteveM]

75. Good point. If "we" can't convince the Teabaggers to join...

with us and others, then nothing will succeed.

It should be sobering to realize that the only ones in the streets ARE the Teabaggers.

[Capt.America]

24. Avengers Assemble!

[Greybnk48]

26. I bought my pitchfork several years ago.

Just waiting for a leader. And waiting...and waiting...and waiting. I really thought that Pres. Obama would be that man. I love him, but he seems to have adopted the Clinton strategy, which was always anti-climactic IMO.

Will we ever elect someone like Teddy Kennedy who is actually FOR the people?

[Luciferous]

30. +1 I'm very disappointed in Obama

[RKP5637]

32. I'm wondering the same. Americans seem to have lost the ability to see

through the thick BS and artful propaganda of today.

[AnArmyVeteran]

80. I have my torch ready to lite!

I'm still looking for a good deal on a pitchfork.

[olegramps]

27. Guess I mistakenly thought that was the Revolution that I signed up for when I voted for Obama.

[RKP5637]

31. Yeah, that's what I thought too... I feel really duped. I was a moderate all of

my life, just wanted a sense of fairness, now I guess I'm a far left nut because I believe in fairness and some governmental plans that work for all citizens. And I don't want a corporate government. I'm tired of the fascist nature this country has moved toward... And being considered some LW nut because I don't like it... This has become the most propagandized nation in history.

[Steely_Dan]

39. Today's Radical Left was Yesterday' Democrat n/t

[Iwillnevergiveup]

128. Totally agree, Steely_Dan

You're talkin' about me! Thom Hartmann has taken it even further - "Workers of the world, UNITE!" There is unconscionable greed everywhere in the world among the elite which then creates misery for the vast, vast majority.

K&R

[CLANG]

117. I'm a Left-wing nutjob too.

I used to think I believed in fairness, taking care of everyone, promoting equality and respect for all. I guess I was wrong, I'm just a LW nutjob!

[RKP5637]

130. I'll toast to that!

:toast: :hi:

[RKP5637]

28. The gov. today has the power to suppress citizens however chosen. Congress

and presidents come and go, but today the monied and very powerful pull the stings in the background. The gov. has become the front for the behind the scenes operations.

Anything to disrupt the profits and benefits to those behind the scenes will be met with force and control, even to the point of a police state to maintain status quo. It will be veiled in terms of national security, and not governmental change for the betterment of the citizenry unless it works to maximize profits.

Anyway, that's just my 2 cents on the situation of today... And citizens today are too polarized to be an effective group, and this will be used to keep the citizenry in line and in adherence to the dictates to maximize profits at any cost through propaganda, disinformation and the chaotic values of today's citizenry.

Just observing what seems to be going on... Given the RW'edness of the citizenry and gov., I would say we are headed on a path of even more RW'edness. Far too much of the citizenry today appears more appeased by RW nuttiness and propaganda than what works best for all. It is an ignorant populace.

[tomp]

42. yes, the gov't will repsond with force on behalf of the rich.

and that is with dem or repub in power.

[kentuck]

48. That is why it must be a non-violent revolution..

The key phrase is: UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL.

No minority in either Party is going to be able to change what has taken place in our government in Washington. They have been captured by corporations and special interests.

There is no single leader. There are many leaders.

We cannot separate ourselves from other Americans and expect to succeed. That is why we must have a common purpose. That is, to change the government in Washington. Other political differences must be settled at the polls. All those "issues" are used to divide and conquer.

Power must fear the people.

[lordsummerisle]

46. +1 n/t

[HillbillyBob]

103. Im doing my part to disrupt profiteers

I cant afford to buy the latest greatest gotta have trinkets.
boycott everything.

[RKP5637]

109. Same here. If they depended on me to buy the latest they would ALL be bankrupt! n/t

[Doremus]

33. K&R

[BlueJac]

34. Is there something wrong?..........

:sarcasm:

[Imajika]

35. Why do you think this would be a revolution of the left?

Is it not just as likely, possibly more likely, that the revolution would be driven by the right?

I agree, there is intense anger on both sides and a political upheaval may be on the way but, because it happens to be a "left" majority in power running both elected branches of government, this revolutionary moment may be captured by the right.

"It's not between the worker and the employer. It between the common citizen and his government."

Possibly, but more and more voters seem to think the government is doing too much, not too little. Government spending is under attack. Public employees are under attack for being overpaid and getting too many benefits that we are told are unaffordable. There is little stomach in this country for more local, state and federal workers on the payroll paid via taxes collected from the private sector. Remember, the private sector is the vast majority and in these hard times many seem to want to see government scaled back.

"It is time to demand more from our government and our representatives."

But the energy so far seems to be on the right as evidenced by poll after poll, and they believe that "more" from government means less in the way of programs and spending.

Your right though, there is a revolutionary spirit in the air, but the result may be completely contrary to what you were hoping for. As other posters have said, better be careful what you wish for.

"We want good schools with good education. We want healthcare for all our people. We want a more fair tax code. We want jobs back in this country. We want the bloated military budget cut. We want to save our Social Security system. We will no longer accept bigotry and hatred. We will no longer accept the status quo."

Some of those things both sides agree on, but differ completely on how to achieve them. The only actual unifying thing in your statement is the "we want jobs back in this country" - and that is something that every movement and political leader claim to support.

[RKP5637]

37. Please see #28. That's what I feel too, it well might be more from the RW. n/t

[tomp]

44. the right wing base is very small but they are aligned with the interests....

....of the rich. the gov't will back the right every time.

the only effective mass movement could come from the left.

but the right wingnuts have the rich, the media and gov't on their side, which tends to even out the odds for them.

plus they have disproportionate representation in the senate.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Imajika]

38. So create a 3rd party to split the left of center vote?

"The revolution that is demanded is the formation of a Labor Party from the core of what yet remains of organized labor."

The Republicans and right wingers in general would LOVE this. A 3rd party would divide the left and end up handing even MORE power to the right. Notice the tea party crowd is mostly focused on running candidates under the banner of the Republican party - they are trying to take over the GOP, not split the right of center vote. They are actually doing it the smart way - and yet we make fun of them for their radical candidates. They are the movement doing the effective things right now. Dividing our vote would just be a recipe for disaster.

The answer here is for this labor friendly movement you speak of to run more candidates in the Democratic primaries, and for people to actually be interested enough to show up and vote in those primaries. Progressives need to focus on energizing and taking over the Democratic Party - not splitting the left of center vote.

[SteveM]

77. The present pro-corporate DLC is intentionally bereft of philosophy...

This came about after the McGovern "fiasco" (early 70s) in which the Democratic Party was pretty much taken over in many places by strong liberal caucuses; in fact, the GOP Right (at a time when they were a portion of the Republican Party and not in charge of it) closely modeled the McGovern-era efforts in their take over of the GOP. Fact is, NO ONE wants the "left," most especially the Democratic Party.

The Right's takeover of the GOP was marked by solid intelligent organizing, solid ideology, solid financing, sublime aggressiveness, and patience. But they had turned the corner by the end of the 70s and never looked back. They are a true party. The Democratic Party is not a true party, and hasn't been since LBJ, and perhaps earlier.

I'm ready.

[old mark]

40. Rec. WE must take over the Democratic Party and MAKE IT WORK FOR THE PEOPLE!!!

A splinter party won't do it, not will sitting at home muttering...Send Obama an email to the WH telling him how you feel. A few hundred of those a day for a few months may get some attention - send a few per week, get others to do so...
I understand that Mr. Emmanual's future in DC may be in doubt after the election, which may be a victory of sorts for us...no matter what names they call us, we must continue to push the Administration to do right things.

mark

[Big Bill Jefferson]

41. Proposals for debate, elaboration and action

Proposals for debate, elaboration and action

Finance

• Introduce full-scale socialisation of banks, not just nationalisation of bad assets
• Institutionalise full transparency within the financial system through the opening of the books to the public, to be facilitated by citizen and worker organisations
• Introduce parliamentary and citizens’ oversight of the existing banking system
• Apply social (including conditions of labour) and environmental criteria to all lending, including for business purposes
• Prioritise lending, at minimum rates of interest, to meet social and environmental needs and to expand the already growing social economy
• Overhaul central banks in line with democratically determined social, environmental and expansionary (to counter the recession) objectives, and make them publicly accountable institutions.
• Create people-based banking institutions and strengthen existing popular forms of lending based on mutuality and solidarity
• Safeguard migrant remittances to their families and introduce legislation to restrict charges and taxes on transfers

Taxation

• Close all tax havens
• End tax breaks for fossil fuel and nuclear energy companies
• Apply stringent progressive tax systems
• Introduce a global taxation system to prevent transfer pricing and tax evasion
• Introduce a levy on corporate profits with which to establish citizen investment funds (see below)
• Impose stringent progressive carbon taxes on those with the biggest carbon footprints
• Adopt controls, such as Tobin taxes, on the movements of speculative capital
• Re-introduce tariffs and duties on imports of luxury goods and other goods already produced locally as a means of increasing the state’s fiscal base, as well as a means to support local production and thereby reduce carbon emissions globally

Public spending and investment

• Radically reduce military spending
• Redirect government spending from bailing out bankers to guaranteeing basic incomes and social security, and providing universally accessible basic social services such as health, education, child care, housing, water and electricity
• Use citizen funds (see above) for supporting the very poor and indigenous communities
• Make interim arrangements for people who may lose their homes due to defaults on mortgages caused by the crisis, such as renegotiated terms of payment and prevention of evictions
• Stop privatisations of public services
• Establish public enterprises under the control of parliaments, local communities and/or workers
• Improve the performance of public enterprises through democratising management - encourage public service managers, staff, unions and consumer organisations to collaborate to this end
• Introduce participatory budgeting over public finances at all feasible levels
• Invest massively in improved energy efficiency, low carbon emitting public transport, renewable energy and environmental repair
• Control or subsidise the prices of basic commodities

International trade and finance

• Introduce a permanent global ban on short-selling of stock and shares
• Ban on trade in derivatives
• Ban all speculation on staple food commodities
• Cancel the debt of all developing countries – debt is mounting as the crisis causes the value of Southern currencies to fall
• Phase out the World Bank, IMF, and WTO
• Phase out the US dollar as the international reserve currency
• Establish a people’s inquiry into the mechanisms necessary for a just international monetary system
• Ensure aid transfers do not fall as a result of the crisis
• Abolish tied aid
• Abolish neoliberal aid conditionalities
• Phase out the paradigm of export-led development, and refocus sustainable development on production for the local and regional market
• Introduce incentives for products produced for sale closest to the local market
• Cancel all negotiations for bilateral free trade and economic partnership agreements
• Promote regional economic co-operation arrangements, such as UNASUR, the Bolivarian Alternative for the Americas (ALBA), the Trade Treaty of the Peoples and others, that encourage genuine development and an end to poverty

Environment

• Introduce a global system of compensation for countries which do not exploit fossil fuel reserves in the global interests of limiting effects on the climate, such as Ecuador has proposed
• Pay reparations to Southern countries for the ecological destruction wrought by the North to assist peoples of the South to deal with climate change and other environmental crises
• Strictly implement the ‘precautionary principle’ of the UN Declaration on the Right to Development as a condition for all developmental and environmental projects
• End lending for projects under the Kyoto Protocol’s “Clean Development Mechanism” that are environmentally destructive, such as monoculture plantations of eucalyptus, soya and palm oil
• Stop the development of carbon trading and other environmentally counter-productive techno-fixes, such as carbon capture and sequestration, agrofuels, nuclear power and ‘clean coal’ technology
• Adopt strategies to radically reduce consumption in the rich countries, while promoting sustainable development in poorer countries
• Introduce democratic management of all international funding mechanisms for climate change mitigation, with strong participation from Southern countries and civil society

Agriculture and industry

• Phase out the pernicious paradigm of industry-led development, where the rural sector is squeezed to provide the resources necessary to support industrialisation and urbanisation
• Promote agricultural strategies aimed at achieving food security, food sovereignty and sustainable farming
• Promote land reforms and other measures which support small holder agriculture and sustain peasant and indigenous communities
• Stop the spread of socially and environmentally destructive mono-cultural enterprises
• Stop labour law reforms aimed at extending hours of work and making it easier for employers to fire or retrench workers
• Secure jobs through outlawing precarious low paid work
• Increase employment through the establishment of new public enterprises
• Guarantee equal pay for equal work for women – as a basic principle and to help counter the coming recession by increasing workers’ capacity to consume
• Protect the rights of migrant workers in the event of job losses, ensuring their safe return to and reintegration into their home countries. For those who cannot return, there should be no forced return, their security should be guaranteed, and they should be provided with employment or a basic minimum income

http://www.redpepper.org.uk/The-Beijing-Declaration

May be copied and disseminated at length with proper accreditation given.

[SteveM]

78. Note: the Right's takeover of the GOP was marked by brevity & clarity. nt

[Political_Junkie]

106. Welcome to DU, Big Bill!

:hi:

[fascisthunter]

43. .

[MyNameGoesHere]

45. I would say not so much.

I see nothing that indicates the populace is at the point of active participation in forcing revolutionary change forward. For the most part we still drink our coffee in the morning, bitch about the current state of affairs while slaving for the bourgeois , go home and wonder what happened to our country. Wake up and do it all over again.

There is nothing so oppressive that it would move the people to a revolt. I would say we are at the comfortably numb state. Not a good launching pad for revolutionary change.

[kentuck]

51. There is no guarantee...

that tomorrow will be the same as yesterday.

[SteveM]

79. Opression may come from lack of work than from the government.

[leeroysphitz]

47. Please tell us who will be the first up against the wall. n/t

[w8liftinglady]

49. I've been there...it hasn't been easy,but I'll be there now,too!

[bdamomma]

50. I only wish that our government whoever

the President was would be more afraid of its citizens and not the other way around we could learn something from those European countries that take no shit.

[jimmil]

52. It's too late

We are done for. There is no way we can pay the debt we owe anymore. It's like every single person in the US having a house payment without the house of course. On top of that you still have to live every day. It is over. I thought we may have a chance after Clinton, things were turning around. But I knew, being from Texas, Bush was a total baffoon and the same people that created Reagan and Bush I were pulling his strings. He never did anything before except be a living puppet. Regardless, the same people that got Reagan elected and proceding to wreck the country were still there at George II side. Now we truly are doomed. Our manufacturing base has moved off to cheaper shores. We are replacing our best and brightest engineers for cheaper off shore work that comes with a host of problems usually but that is rapidly changing.

What do we do now as a country? What CAN we do now as a country? Nothing unless something changes, something BIG changes. We all know that won't happen.

[kentuck]

53. Once again, here are the guidelines:

There is no leader. There are many leaders. The motto is: United We Stand, Divided We Fall.

#1 First of all, you must believe.

#2 You educate.

#3 It takes time.

#4 We agree with our political adversaries that our government needs change. We join them in that cause. We will agree to discuss political differences later. That is the beginning.

#5 We need to look at it as a modern-day constitutional convention.

#6 We can present to our Congress and Senate the laws and amendments that we want passed. If they disagree, then they will be on the list to be replaced in the next election.

#7. Some of the first laws or amendments we will request will include:
public financing of elections,
a flat tax on everyone's FICA taxes,
a progressive income tax,
wages tied to productivity as they were until the late 1970's,
equal rights for everyone,
an end to the wars,
and cuts in the bloated military budget.
and an increase in the tax rate to equal the Reagan tax rates.

#8 That is the procedure that needs to be followed for a successful non-violent "revolution".

All great changes begin with the people, not with those in power.

[tiny elvis]

110. advocates for such ought to read books describing the paradigms

http://www.amazon.com/States-Social-Revolutions-Comparative-Analysis/dp/052122439X
i cannot afford luxuries like books, but i wish that dissidents would study their favorite subject
someone will attempt to remake or overthrow the government when it looks weak
there are several ways for a gov to show weakness, but our world dominating empire has not yet
beyond revolution hyperbole, marching and striking for justice, justice, justice would be most helpful and may even expose a weakness in the gov that attracts more people into the fray

[kentuck]

111. In my opinion, tiny elvis...

It will spring up spontaneously from the people when the situation reaches a critical point. When people are hungry and they don't have a roof over their heads and desperation sets in, they will rebel against the status quo. They will not recognize themselves as part of any "revolution". They will see a government that does not work for them, no matter what their Party affiliation. It could be closer than we think.

[tiny elvis]

115. people have done it before in other times and places

widespread desperation is one way a government shows weakness
greater spontaneity means less chance of success or desired outcome
marching and striking for justice can be a catalyst and set the stage for better organization
you are right that it will have nothing to do with a political party

[PassingFair]

54. You Professional Left people need to pipe down!

:sarcasm:

[SteveM]

81. Professional? Where's my pay, then? nt

[NorthCarolina]

55. K&R

[kentuck]

56. Ask yourself?

Why do you think this thread has such a strong response??

DU has always talked about "revolution". Why is it any different now??

[rhett o rick]

57. I rec'd however dont agree. In the last 30 years we have lost a lot and no one has revolted

This will continue until we are serfs. We are being slowly boiled. At what point will we decide the water is too hot?

[kentuck]

58. People are starting to feel the heat...

from all sides.

This winter will be the turning point for a lot of folks, in my opinion. It may be the winter of our discontent?

Revolutions of any any kind are not created by a single person or group, they are born from the people.

That is the truth that we must come to grips with, no matter how much we might disagree with folks like the "Tea Party". We cannot do it alone and neither can they. The goal must be to change the government. Only then will it be possible to make the changes needed, such as campaign finance reform.

[readmoreoften]

61. It is between the worker and the bosses. Because this state is run by the bosses.

Plenty of Tea Partiers also think they're starting a revolution against the government. Let's be clear in our terms. Both Fascist and leftist movements start with populism. If we don't ACTIVELY WIN populists to left-wing, and yes SOCIALIST, politics than we lose them to the Tea Party. The strength of the Tea Party is the failure of the left.

[kentuck]

66. If you make it between the worker and the bosses...

You lose.

Although that may be the ultimate goal, we must first unite as a people, to change the government. Only then will we be able to address the other inequities. We cannot look at the Tea Party as the enemy and expect to succeed. It doesn't matter if we disagree with them on all the issues if we agree that there must be change in the government. If we do not take the first step, no other steps will follow.

We should not fear the Tea Party. However misguided and uninformed they might be, they have touched the first nerve in the revolution. To vilify and ridicule them is to only further the goals of the two political Parties that have lost touch with the People. We need them in order to succeed.

It will take time.

But it is coming...

[Goldstein1984]

62. Yes

[alcibiades_mystery]

63. Dumb

[quiet.american]

97. You rock. nt

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kentuck]

67. It is not going to happen tomorrow...

But circumstances and situations change. Economic conditions are the driving force for major change. Perhaps you think this economy will be zooming along next year at this time?? If not, and more and more people are unemployed and on the street, we are looking at a different game.

[Imajika]

72. I agree we are in a pre-revolutionary atmosphere...

...but I don't get where you think this will lead.

If/when this happens, you may be sitting behind the keyboard wishing to God things could go back to the golden years of 2010.

Still, I agree you are right to point out what you are seeing. I think we are reaching a political boiling point in this country, I am just afraid the result of what is coming will be completely counter to what all of us here on DU would want to see.

[kentuck]

74. It is uncharted waters.

But we have to lean on our Constitution and rights of the people over corporations and special interests and inadequate and incapable government.

I think this is a pre-revolutionary atmosphere and the economics will dictate where it goes. There is not a lot of confidence in government at this time. They are bought and paid for. They have forsaken the people they were sent to represent. Both Parties are guilty, although there are still a few good Democrats. But not enough to make a difference.

We can fear the future or we can attempt to guide it. We have entered fascist territory. Corporations rule. We must do our best to guide it through the ballot box and by non-violent means.

That will be our test.

[Paper Roses]

76. Sign me on. Alone I am useless, with numbers comes results.

I have done all the e-mails, letters, phone calls I can. I'm ready to walk the streets, cane and all.

[earcandle]

82. My two cents: A quiet revolution is more powerful.

We don't even know what those among us will do next, but we
rely on covert subversion:  without upsetting the applecart
completely, while we invest in our own. 

I am talking about: be stupid, except where it concerns our
own needs, products and services.

1. pull your money out of corporate banks and put it into
credit unions
2. join all the unions you can and support them with volunteer
labor and donations
3. send products to the wrong address once (oops)
4. temporarily and periodically make an error that undermines
the technological infrastructure of the stock market making
the world indexes unreliable and the powers confused. 
5. lose the parts order once in every company that is causing
pain in the world per person regularly like clock work. 
6. lose the judge's calendar for a week.
7. stop making political contributions all together
8. send the guns next door (or box and resend to a dumping
site)instead of to foreign soil (but have shipping documents
verify delivery)
9. have someone on the other end play along
10.stop giving to the churches (gun runners)
11.send bank statements with copies of canceled checks and of
deposits (front and back) of corrupt organizations to
wikileaks
12.make corrupt voting machines actually work (get insiders to
work with us)
13.be positive while the chaos ensues. 
14.find a way to de-stablize HAARP.
15.don't commit any crimes 
16.keep your nose clean, and protect your neighbor instead of
being a gossip
17.develop some code words for important across the country
actions
18. make getting our country back an act of covert
intelligence that demonstrates our artistic and logistic
abilities.
19.be a role model in the world for what we want and what we
can do non-violently to have it. 
20.create a news board with creative subversive ideas that can
be done anonymously, and make a difference.
21.Tell your employer you want to be a contractor. Put your
gross into your credit union, write off all but 10% and pay
that as your  tax. 
22. Brainstorm with your international brothers and sisters
how to create more chaos while setting up systems that work
with the money we save 

We all want out of the delusional world invented for our
demise.


Stay calm, cool, collected and intentional in all that you do.
Don't ever, ever snitch on your brothers and sisters nor
yourself. 
You are a hero, not a terrorist.  

[bvar22]

83. As soon as....

..the Working Class & The Poor (Democrats & Republicans) realize WE have MORE in common with each other than we have in common with the Leadership of BOTH Political Parties, the revolution will begin.
Look to Latin America for The Blueprint for this revolution.

The Populist Reforms sweeping across South America are nothing less than near Bloodless Revolution unreported in the US Media, and unmentioned by the political ruling classes in BOTH Political Parties.

WE outnumber THEM.
The solution lies outside the very narrow frames limiting political debate.
The Political Parties are struggling to keep that frame as tight as possible...

Witness Mr. Gibbs FRAMING of The Debate last week:
*Health Care comparable to what the rest of the civilized WORLD takes for Granted? = Outside the frame

*Reducing Military Spending? = outside the frame

*Publicly acknowledging how much both Political Parties are the same on important issues? = Outside the frame.

We have decided that you may have either a Coke...or a Pepsi,
AND you may ONLY discuss the differences between Coke and Pepsi.
You may NOT discuss how much alike they are.

No Thanks.

[grahamhgreen]

129. +1

[ProfessionalLeftist]

85. I want my government severed from control of corporations

Then I want the rest of what you mention. But first, corprat control must be given the guillotine.

[kentuck]

88. Unfortunately, they have taken control of our government...

and have bought our Congress and Senate and there is no way to clean up one Party only. Both Parties must be cleansed of corporate control in order to get them out of our government. At the present time, they are deeply embedded in both Parties. We must unite as a people to clean up the government before anything else can be accomplished. Otherwise, we will all be slaves of the fascist state.

[Matariki]

86. Nice sentiments.

Apart from asserting "It is coming..." how do you propose making it happen? In what way will it be a "revolution"?

[patrice]

90. Uh, . . . it's a revolution; it's not his to tell you. It's yours to discover. nt

[kentuck]

91. I am only a messenger.

I cannot make it happen. How do you keep weeds from growing in your garden? They just happen to grow from inattention.

"Revolution" as I envision it, would not be violent. That would surely be the recipe for failure. We must unite as a people in order to succeed in saving our country.

I say "it is coming". People have been saying that for 10 years here on DU. But there is a reason so many folks have responded to this thread.

When it comes from the people, there are many leaders.

[havocmom]

89. And we want to stop supporting the top economic bracket so we can have what we need

They have plenty of money. It is time to take them off our backs! The nation will be better off when the vampires are forced to feed on their own resources.

[kentuck]

93. We need to return to an unwritten agreement we had until about 1979

between employers and their workers. When there was productivity and profits, workers received wages commensurate with their increase in productivity. This is part of the "revolution".

[indepat]

92. If one were to take a hard look at all legislation passed since the Gipper foisted his voodoo

economics on America, my best guess is that such legislation would benefit large corporations, including the banksters and Wall Street fraudsters, and the most affluent rather the general welfare/most of we the people at a ratio in the range of ten to twenty to one: while my opinion doesn't matter a diddle-dy-squat, the proof of this thesis lies squarely in the legislative pudding cooked up for us which has about croaked the economy and killed off the proverbial goose (a vibrant middle class) that laid the golden egg. :).

[defendandprotect]

123. All of this begins much longer ago that Reagan --

As we note, Nixon would look liberal now .... save for his corruption and crimes --

some of it treason, imo.

Long string of presidents after Nixon, enabling wars -- and moving government to the right --

Corporations/elites began to buy our government -- our elected officals -- a long time ago!!

WWII and fascism never really ended --

neither did Watergate --

Assassination of JFK was a coup on people's government --

prologue --

And, just simply look at the Drug War ... and how that has been militarily advanced to its

current state .. but began with Nixon --

Lots of newly energized starting points -- but the only way the rw can rise is thru political

violence and we've had that -- out in the open -- for more than 50 years!

[Kalyke]

94. Funny... I thought the fight was netween the average person and multinational corps.

I have no beef with the government - other than it's starved to the point that it cannot regulate BIG Business.

My problem is with the multinational corporations who are actively participating in the starvation of government.

[kentuck]

95. If you cannot get thru the front door..

then you have to try entering the back door. The corporations are now in control of our government. You must change the government in order to defeat the fascist corporations. They have too much power. You cannot show up at the door of government with a pitchfork and a torch and make demands. We have to do it united as a people. In order to unite, we must put aside all issues that are meant to divide and conquer and unite under one goal, a change in our government. Only when that is achieved will be able to get the reforms that are needed, such as campaign finance reform.

[Radical Activist]

98. It reads like a tea-party flier.

[sfpcjock]

99. Unfortunately we have something called "an election year"

in which nothing happens for 8 months or so, followed by resurgence of the people who brought about the world economic collapse. Their fear mongering is constant and will win unless we challenge them.

[Warren DeMontague]

100. Yes. Yes, there certainly is.

Whee!

[Captain Boomerang]

101. I don't like T-baggers.

They are funded by guys like Charles Koch and Dick Armey...
They watch FOX News and use the title of Christian as some sort of crutch.
They are most likely Christian Fundamentalists and Christian Nationalists.
They ARE racist.
They are an astroturf movement from the day of their inception.
They are "Morans."

A riot of idiots maybe... but not a revolution.

[keep_it_real]

104. Will there be a national strike before the revolution?

[kentuck]

107. No.

Those are actions from a past time that no longer applies. Perhaps there could be a national protest day by the unemployed? It is the economic conditions that will spark any civil actions. America is a much different place today.

[metapunditedgy]

105. This time around, the REVOLUTION will not be in scare quotes! n/t

[lib2DaBone]

108. When people become homeless and hungry....

..they have a tendency to ban together... to become unpredictable.

[RedCloud]

112. I'd rather fight the ten trillion dollar hoarders. They are paper tigers.

[sulphurdunn]

113. Join a union.

Join a progressive organization or a professional association or a church. Work to see that they affiliate and work toward a common cause. Then you have to pass the hat and use dollars like bullets. Did I leave anything out? :smoke:

[Mira]

114. Proud to give this recommendation number 200

I think we should long have been in the streets.
In my own way, marching, I long have been.

All of what you are saying is true, our demands are deserved and critical.
NOW

[deacon_sephiroth]

116. forgive my lack of enthusiasm

I've been calling for this, predicting it, asking for it, begging, for as long as I can remember. My faith tank in the revolution is on empty.

[Historic NY]

118. So how much are you raising our taxes?

[kentuck]

119. What does it matter...?

If you have lost everything else?

[sam sarrha]

122. we only need to raise taxes on the rich.. see my other post.. #121..

[defendandprotect]

120. With you ....

[sam sarrha]

121. this is why we cant have good schools, good education, healthcare for all our people >LINK>>.

the top 1% has 42.7 of Americas Financial wealth, the next 19& has 50.3%, and the Bottom 80% only has 7% of America's financial wealth.

the top 1% holds 5.4% Debt, the next 9% hold 21.3% of debt, the bottom 90% holds 73.4% with only 7% of the financial wealth

this is all compounded by the OCD Gambling addicts, Cleptocratic Plutocrats, scamming the Stock Market using non-value added futures/derivatives/ponzy Schemes to skim all the cream off the economy, their lackey's lick the bowl leaving nothing for the Under Class that they created and blame for all the problems.

read the Shock Doctrine.. cheap at Amazon..

nothing will change till we eliminate Campaign Contributions, formerly known as Bribes.. the foundation of Fascism.



http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

[Vidar]

124. I certainly hope so. It is long overdue.

[greiner3]

126. Actually;

I tell family and anybody who will listen that bad times are coming. I am in the process of convincing my children to move to either Australia, New Zealand of Brazil.

[TomClash]

127. Ths is a pipe dream

Real revolutions are rare and stoked by violence. The State has become increasingly more powerful and the populace increasingly more drugged, overfed, distracted and ultimately docile. The State's means of surveillance and suppression are truly impressive, unprecedented and extraordinary, beyond what Orwell or Huxley would ever have imagined. If there is even a whiff of "revolution" I can guarantee one thing - the Empire will strike back with a vengeance and crush it like a harmless bug - and we might not even know it.

Your intentions are earnest but I think your prediction is wrong.

[earcandle]

131. start with individual doable actions, one at a time and collectively we will make a difference.

buy only organic food
move money to local credit union.
buy second hand clothes
get electronics fixed
start cottage industries that fix things
build our own capital
wean off pharmaceuticals
start walking
save for an electric car
take vitamins daily 
go to weight watchers and get healthy
rebuild self esteem, learn new saleable skills
be generous
be thankful
be gracious
be smart, but when working with killers, haters and gossips,
act dumb.
don't believe the newspapers, find blogs that inform
hold government and corporations accountable for their
adherence to regulatory laws.
take chromium picolinate for energy when it runs out, pretty
soon your metabolism will kick in on its own
have a beer or glass of wine at the end of the day... or when
pot becomes legal, indulge.

[RandomThoughts]

132. If there is, it would have to be global.

And the shape of that type of thing would require some bad situations.

It may require billions in the lower/middle class to reach a very bad point.

But since anything not acceptable is the same, if that condition was created it would make sense. Something has to occur, and as more milder things do not have acceptable results, then logically things of greater impact have to occur.

The only question is how soon and how fast, since each event has a possibility of creating acceptable conditions.

Logically, it makes sense that to remove systematic problems entrenched with concepts that are unacceptable, the populace has to reach both the point where they will do something, and the size to overcome any technological or control methods that exist.

Since the sophistication of crowd control is so high, it seems that the disaster, economic, natural whatever would have to reach a very high level for things to become acceptable.

Sad, but logically seems to be what people want.

And have not seen any other changes towards acceptable situations in needed situations, so it makes sense for those things to occur.

Note my mention of the upper class is an assumption based on a stereotype of ability versus action ratios. It could be other people, don't know. Although the only people that would do the things to create that would be those very people, by their nihilism.

So increased serfdom is the people creating that, creating the conditions for their removal.


Interestingly through hubris they will believe they are in control till the snap.

[inna]

140. You make some interesting points.

We really are in uncharted territory; pitchforks and torches are not going to be very effective, precisely because of the "control" factor that you mentioned. The American people are in a somewhat unique situation (compared to, say, the Europeans) because of the extent to which the populace is controlled. Greeks and the French have it easier, in many aspects - at least they're not afraid to lose their health coverage and basic safety net if they go on general strike; and they certainly haven't been "conditioned"/brainwashed with the anti-labor, anti-solidarity, anti-socialist propaganda as most Americans have.

[47of74]

133. If things don't change

I fear that sooner or later the country will go the route of the Western Empire and that our nation will collapse in upon itself.

[Arugula Latte]

135. There should be one coming, but I sadly think that this is wishful thinking

Too many Americans are stupid and brainwashed by Fox News, hate radio and religion.

[lordsummerisle]

136. And distracted

by their smart phones, the internet, cable tv, ipods, ipads, game boxes...

[azul]

137. People in the US may finally wake up and get together when China and

Korea and other countries own all the US businesses that have come to corrupt and run the US government.

Before then, the corporations can just push the jingoistic and patriotic buttons of the people and splash about in the money river, unmolested.

[Phoonzang]

138. More like a civil war..

The other side is more riled up and active than ever and want the exact opposite of what we want. Partisan rancor is at an all time high blatant xenophobia is "in". If anyone's likely to launch a revolution it's the conservos. I believe what will be needed is a counter-revolution, to maintain what we already have.

[LatteLibertine]

141. I don't think it's a case of either or

How does a CEO generate revenue without labor producing a product or service that is consumed? Labor is seriously under valued and inappropriately rewarded in this nation. The solution for the GoP and the most wealthy? Bust unions and pay labor elsewhere in the world 77cents an hour with zero benefits.

Yes, our government officials have played a role in concentrating money and power upwards into the hands of the most wealthy at the expense or best interests of the overwhelming majority of the US population. Some of them are Democrats and most are Republicans.

Below is an excellent site that shows how 20% of this nation holds 85% of our wealth and 61% of all income. That is not the result of a balanced system.

http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

Yes, I will be in the movement. It's time to legislatively smash the sell outs directly in the mouth, and vote out their lackeys. This issue should be paramount or stack up number 1.

You're with the overwhelming majority of the US population or you are not. I'll let your voting record tell the tale.

[eShirl]

142. There's always a revolution coming.

You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out

Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right

You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well, you know
We're doing what we can
But when you want moneyfor people with minds that hate
All I can tell is brother you have to wait

Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right


You say you'll change the constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well, you know
You better free your mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow

Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right
all right, all right, all right
all right, all right, all right