Sign of the times - school supplies

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

My son is unemployed and has been for well over a year. I offered to take his two girls school shopping and I downloaded the list of supplies from their school. Even with no taxes this weekend and buy literally everything on sale I spent a little over $500. New shoes, 2 pairs of jeans, 3 t-shirts, 2 dresses, socks, underwear, and supplies.

I've been out of this game for a long time, is this kind of list normal?

Here's the lists:

The girls' list

Kindergarten
8 fat glue sticks
2 boxes of tissues
1 box of zip top bags (gallon size)
2 large bottles of hand sanitizer
24 count box crayons (skinny)
washable primary colored markers (8 count pack)
small plastic pencil box
1 pack of fat pencils (2 count)
1 pack of no. 2 pencils (12 count)
1 primary composition book (with space for pictures on top)
1 pack of sticky notes

3rd grade
3 boxes of tissues
8 plastic folders (pocket & 3 prongs)
6 composition books (50 sheets, no spiral)
2 packs of no. 2 pencils (24 count)
big pink erasers (3)
6 fat glue sticks (no gel)
3 packs of notebook paper (wide ruled)
24 count box crayons (skinny)
2 boxes colored pencils (12 count)
4 Jumbo highlighters (yellow)
Sticky Notes
multiplication flash cards
1 box of gallon size zip top bags
1 box of sandwich size zip top bags
1 container of disinfecting wipes
4 large bottles of hand sanitizer
2 cans of disinfecting Spray

[Liberal_in_LA]

1. I don't have kids. Had no idea they were required to get hand sanitizers and disinfectants

[msongs]

2. yes abnormal. the school is dumping ALL its supplies on the parents ->

disinfecting spray, trash bags, plastic bags, all that stuff is covered by school janitor supplies and will be used for many purposes besides for the specific use of your child. You are being ripped off

You are better off just providing your kids with supplies they will need on a day to day basis unless the school will lock them up and guarantee they will only be used for your kids.

Msongs

[RufusTFirefly]

92. The wonderful result of "No new taxes!"

Republicans (aided and abetted by the DLC) have systematically starved our schools and now yell at them for being too skinny.

It's a brilliant plan to squeeze anyone who can possibly manage it out of the public system and into private school.

When the smoke clears, the middle class will be gone, public schools will be in shambles, and American children will be incurious and undereducated -- perfect raw material for large corporations and cannon fodder for foreign military adventurism.

[Renew Deal]

131. The plastic bag is for school supplies.

My sister who teaches said the only thing that appears to be for the teacher is the stickies. I think the lysol is a bit much. The school should supply that.

[Donnachaidh]

156. I have to disagree - these lists look like something I've had to buy each year until my kid got into

high school.

Yes, there might be a few extras (like the trash bags), but everything else is the same - they've asked for these type of supplies for the past 10 years in my area. Ziploc bags have always been asked for. The hand sanitizers piss me off, only because I think they overuse that stuff, period.

Considering the fact that they've let go 500 teachers in my county - I'm more upset over the amount of teachers let go. There was no rhyme or reason behind it - good and bad were let go. Pointless mess -- why not cut salaries at the top to save the good teachers? Of course, that would make no sense to the entrenched administrators. :shrug:

[quiller4]

213. I disagree. All that stuff will be used by the specific child if the

classroom is anything like the one where I volunteer.

[cornermouse]

230. If you resent the reality, then you better vote

against a cut in taxes next time it comes up for a vote.

I don't remember seeing trash bags on her list. The disinfecting spray is probably a fact of life in the new America for several reasons. The plastic baggies are multipurpose.

And one other point. Kids being kids who don't always remember to notify you until a couple of weeks or months after they run out of supplies being used at school; buying general supplies like a couple of boxes of kleenex and packages of whatever writing paper that age group uses to give to the teacher for children who either run out or whose parents can't afford to buy supplies till their next paycheck is not a bad thing since your own children may be among those who run out of paper. Reasonable generosity is not a character flaw.

[T Wolf]

3. As support for education falls off, more and more of these extras are require of parents.

By the time my grandkids get to school, their parents will probably be asked to supply their own desk, chair, and teacher.

[Coyote_Bandit]

4. That's a pretty normal list here

Of course, it's also pretty normal here for teahers to use their paychecks to provide pretty basic supplies.

[Kerrytravelers]

5. That list is ridiculous.

If it is a public school, they can not require any materials be purchased by the parents. However, that being said, it is not illegal to ask you to get your students some supplies. However, as said upthread, those supplies for be for your students only, not the custodial staff.

I am in education.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

12. that's how it has been for years in county schools.

[Kerrytravelers]

115. That is so sad.

It shows just how important our kids really are, doesn't it? :cry:

[donco6]

6. Here's ours:

Third Grade:
Kleenex (large boxes) – 2
Crayons (24 basic colors) – 1 box
Elmer’s glue (4 oz. bottle) – 1
Broad washable markers – 8 basic colors
Pencils #2 (Sharpened) – 24 pack
Pencils Colored – 8 pack
Scissors (Fiskars pointed)
Pocket Folders – 6
Erasers – 2 large
Pencil Box – 1
Paper (Wide ruled filler) – 200 count
Spiral Notebooks 70 pg. wide rule – 4

Fourth Grade:
Kleenex (large boxes) – 2
Crayons (24 basic colors) – 1 box
Elmer’s glue (4 oz. bottle) – 1
Broad washable markers – 8 basic colors
Pencils #2 (sharpened) – 24 pack
Pencils Colored – 8 pack
Scissors (Fiskars pointed)
Pocket Folders – 6
Erasers – 2 large
Pencil bag with zipper – 1
Paper (Wide ruled filler) – 200 count
Spiral Notebooks 70 pg. wide rule – 4

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. Our kids have to bring copy paper.

Can you believe it??

When my son was in school, the art teacher insisted on watercolor inserts that were only available at ONE art supply store in the entire metro area. I bitched about that crap every year. The principal told me she had a classroom budget and he told her every year to buy those damn inserts herself with her budget. I finally refused to buy them one year and the teacher actually threatened to lower my son's grade for not bringing all of his supplies. He was an artist and he begged me to buy the water color inserts. I called the principal and we had a chat. I didn't buy the inserts and he still got an A in Art. :)

I despise anal retentive teachers. They were never too fond of me as a parent, either. LOL

[donco6]

21. We have to have one common list for all schools so that doesn't happen.

We used to have that crap. We used to have kids bringing tons more boxes of kleenex and stuff too, until the superintendent said, "Wait a minute - we can't have some kids subsidizing all the others who don't bring stuff. How many boxes do you REALLY need, and stick with that!" So all that went away.

We don't make the parents pay for garbage bags or copy paper or anything to run the school - just what the kid needs in class.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. They won't let us buy enough copy paper for the year. Also no kleenex.

Or ziplock bags. If we can't relate it to education, we can't buy it with district money.

Special ed budget is even worse. They don't give us much but we have to relate everything we order to IEP goals. I tried a couple years ago to buy notebooks. I filled out the necessary paperwork with a statement that the majority of kids on my caseload had writing goals in their IEPs. My notebooks were rejected because they weren't considered 'specialized' enough. So I gave up. I haven't asked sped to buy me anything for a couple years.

In May last year, since my school was closing, I got an email telling me to box up everything I had bought with sped money, label the box with my name and it would be delivered to my new school (which was unknown at that time). And they supplied boxes to use! What was I supposed to box up for them to move?? Still laughing at that one.

[GoCubsGo]

70. What's the deal with the Ziplock bags?

I don't remember ever needing anything like that, even when I was in college.

[proud2BlibKansan]

82. OMG we use them for everything

Our kids have to take a book to lunch. So we put them in ziplocks. There's a lot of stuff we send home that travels better in a ziplock. Plus math manipulatives and any supplies that have to be divided up. Crayons cause the boxes break in a week. Colored pencils, markers, lots of stuff.

[WCIL]

184. In the primary grades

the kids are sent home each night with thin, paberback easy-reader books (that the teacher most likely bought with her own money). The Ziplock helps protect the books somewhat in the book bag.

[ThomasQED]

214. Me either

And I don't use them now either. There's nothing that goes in them that can't go in something recyclable or biodegradable.

[proud2BlibKansan]

218. Times 30 kids

Using only recyclable materials is not very practical when you are dealing with an entire classroom.

[WolverineDG]

98. When I left teaching, the one thing they crabbed about was the stapler

Thing was, they never supplied me with a stapler because I was hired literally the day before school started. I'd had to go out & buy my own, & the couple of times I requested them to give me one, they always said "But you already have a stapler." But they wanted "their" stapler so badly, I left them a broken one I found in my dad's office that he was going to throw away.

dg

[proud2BlibKansan]

124. Don't get me started on staplers

I have been known to throw a few. (Only when children weren't in the way)

[Dappleganger]

162. Ha!

My teachers used to throw erasers...a little easier on heads, LOL.

BTW, I have my mother's old red swingline from her teaching days. She bought it herself, wrote her name on it and threatened to use bodily force if anyone ever took it from her desk at school. It survived many years and I treasure it as much as some of her pictures.

[donco6]

129. How can you NOT relate copy paper to education?

That's probably the single largest expenditure from the school's supply budget.

[proud2BlibKansan]

141. They don't give us the budget we need to buy enough

I long for the days when we had ditto machines and could use used paper. Businesses would donate it to us.

[Control-Z]

151. Ditto machine?

Is sounds familiar but I don't know what it is?

[proud2BlibKansan]

152. Before copiers

we had ditto machines. Copies came out with purple/blueish print.

[Dappleganger]

163. I confess...

the smell of a ditto machine still makes me whoozy!

It's ridiculous that we can't send in used copy paper but it will mess up their fancy machines (as if they work when they're supposed to anyway).

[Javaman]

236. the cheap high of the ditto...ahhh memories. nt

[sandnsea]

29. My kids' school asked for donations

There was the basic list that went out at the beginning of the year, much more basic than anything here. 2 glue sticks, 2 pencils, crayons, erasers, kleenex packet, things like that. Very basic.

Then the teacher would send home a notice saying the classroom was running short of items, and if you could help, please do. Clearly some parents were "subsidizing" others. We were a community. That's what we're supposed to do. If someone found out the school was short of copy paper, they went to Staples and bought a bunch and dropped it off.

That was true of most of the rural schools my kids went to in Oregon and Montana. Nevada? Blech, crazyville.

[donco6]

128. I have no problem with that.

If people want to give extra to their own kids' classroom, that's cool. But to require it in the supply list is just wrong.

[Dappleganger]

58. We had to buy 2 reams for one child today.

[LibDemAlways]

146. When my daughter was in middle school, pastel copy paper

was mandated - so the teachers would have their choice of colors. Unbelievable.

[ohheckyeah]

153. They even tell you what BRAND of

scissors to buy? That's ridiculous.

[Dappleganger]

164. Ours does, yes.

We even had to buy a specific brand of whiteboard for the 6th grader.

[uncommon]

194. 24 pencils?

Dang. I mean, pens and pencils are easily lost, but jeez. I never even bought a notebook for school until 9th grade.

[donco6]

207. Yeah, 24 whole pencils.

Seriously? We're 82% free/reduced and even WE don't hear complaints about that. It's like . . . two dollars worth.

[proud2BlibKansan]

219. They'll last a month

A lot of the kids go through a pencil a day.

[pstokely]

229. That means 180 pencils per year

or however many days of school they have in Kansas

[proud2BlibKansan]

240. Yep we go through tons of pencils

Some kids more than others.

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. It's insane. I'm a teacher who has complained about this for years.

But yes, it's much worse now due to budget cuts.

I don't have a classroom anymore but when I did, here is the supply list I sent out every year (my parents loved it):

EVERY DAY you need:

something to write WITH
something to write ON
something to color with
a backpack for your homework
Our classroom needs kleenex. Please bring one box.

You don't NEED anything else. Your teacher will supply it. But please don't come to school without all of your supplies every day.

I used my classroom supply budget to buy glue, scissors, construction paper, etc. Of course, back then, we HAD classroom supply budgets. LOL

[Rosa Luxemburg]

13. I wonder what we used to pay taxes for?

I know budgets are tight now

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. Well there are some things they won't let us buy, even when there IS a budget.

Kleenex. You can't have a classroom without it but it's not an educational supply. Same with bandaids and hand sanitizer. Also ziplock bags. I go through a case of them a year.

I started a couple years ago asking my friends to donate school supplies to me. And I take them to school and share with the kids and teachers. I don't know any other way around it. :shrug:

[Rosa Luxemburg]

113. the children are required to bring a box of tissues (Kleenex) here

[walldude]

8. Not abnormal for this day and age... I have been filling those same lists

for almost 10 years now. There is nothing unusual about them, schools have been underfunded for years and years now, and we the parents make up some of the lost money...

[maddezmom]

9. ours was very similar when we were in TX

The PTO organized it so you could pre-order and donations were requested for those that couldn't afford it. All kids started the first day with school supplies.:)

[DiverDave]

10. Huh, The wife is out this very minute getting the same stuff

my guys are in 4th and 7th.

pretty much the same stuff, altho we buy uniforms...

[Rosa Luxemburg]

11. yes absolutely

when I was a child we didn't have to bring supplies in. The school provided them.

We send these lists out every year although we just say crayons or colored pencil not specific numbers in packs. One bottle of snaitizer, one highlighter, one eraser, at least 6 pencils to be replaced over the year. One box of tissues, three composition books, one plastic folder and 3 paper folders with fasteners. Index cards and index card box.

[Hannah Bell]

15. been that way for a while. & then, since so many parents can't afford it, individuals/groups

partner with walmart & other such "charities" to buy school supplies for the unfortunate.

so walmart gets its money & the upper middle gets to do good works.

[etherealtruth]

16. Pretty typical list in these parts ...

The truth is "we" had similar lists when I was a child (sans the sanitizers and disinfectants).

What do poor folk do when confronted with lists like these?

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. "What do poor folk do when confronted with lists like these?"

The teachers buy those supplies. I've been stocking up all summer. No other way around it. I'll be damned if a kid I know about has no supplies on day one cause Mom can't afford them.

[etherealtruth]

37. I have seen that happen often

I have also seen parent groups discreetly provide supplies (and field trip $$) to children from families that couldn't afford to provide for their children.

I've also seen parents and children singled out for not providing (lists posted of children "still missing supplies").

I know I am a minority but I would rather pay higher taxes to provide these supplies to all children.

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. I'm right in there in that minority with you

[Dappleganger]

69. +1000

Not only that but they can often get cheaper supplies.

[proud2BlibKansan]

86. Where?

No cheap for teachers store that I am aware of.

[Renew Deal]

134. My sister did the same thing when she taught in a rough neighborhood.

She literally invested in her class.

[quiller4]

215. Churches collect supplies all summer so that they can distribute

school packs to families through the food banks. I our area World Vision teams with several TV stations on a major donation effort and then lets teachers "shop" through the donations so they have supplies to dole out in class.

[LWolf]

107. My school has a FAN advocate.

"FAN" is "Family Access Network:"

http://www.familyaccessnetwork.org/

Among the many things she does to support families in need, she provides school supplies to any who can't afford them. She will also make sure kids get to see a doctor, a dentist, get glasses, shoes, coats, etc. if they need it.

[Dappleganger]

165. Thanks for that link.

It's time our school has one because there are families teetering on the brink from middle incomes nowadays.

[LWolf]

177. You're welcome, of course. nt

[LibDemAlways]

147. My mom's church actually conducted a collection today for

school supplies for public school kids whose parents can't afford to buy them. It's great that private charity is helping, but a crime that the education budget isn't covering basics like pencils and paper.

[Roland99]

199. That's why a lot of the supplies become "community" supplies

For example, my gf's daughters have on their lists (2nd and 5th grade) to bring in a box of Band-Aids.

Band-Aids? Really? The school can't supply even those?!?!

Even then, what if every kid brought in a box? That would be enough from their classes to supply the entire school for a year!

[Silent3]

17. Disinfection wipes, hand sanitizer (4 LARGE bottles), disinfecting spray

Why not just keep each kid in a plastic bubble? Once they're allowed through the airlock, that is.

[KatyaR]

18. For the last two years my friend has had the most ridiculous

things on her kids' lists. Last year it was a very specific and expensive set of watercolors that could only be bought at a hobby store, they were about $20 for the set--$20 for watercolors for a second grader! I think there was also a specific box of crayons she had to buy. This year her Pre-K daughter's list included "gray construction paper." Apparently no one in all of Oklahoma City carries gray construction paper, so she had to order it online.

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. Oh I hear ya

I just posted a reply in this thread about those damn watercolor inserts. And I'm a teacher.

I just feel like these anal retentive folks who make up these supply lists force us to start the year out with a bad customer service relationship with our parents. I speak out about these lists every year. Wish I had a more positive response.

[donco6]

24. You guys should call out that shit.

I work in a school and we can get gray paper way cheaper than you'll ever find it. That's just dopey - and someone's not watching what that school is putting on its list. This kind of thing pisses me off because it makes us all look bad. Grrrr!

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. Amen

When I retire, I am going to lobby for a law banning anal retentive school supply lists

[Kerrytravelers]

35. In California, the disinfecting spay (i.e. custodial items) are flat-out illegal.

Parents are just trying to do what's best and they're trying to help out the schools. And they're being taken advantage of. That pisses me off.

[TheMightyFavog]

20. With the exception of the sanitzer, the wipes and the spray...

The 3rd Grade list is pretty identical to what my list was like back in the late 80s.

[Bozita]

22. Well, at least toilet paper hasn't appeared on any of the lists ...

... yet.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. Already has. We had a school that added that to last year's list.

[RamboLiberal]

190. Hah - story today in NY Times

Pre-kindergartners in the Joshua school district in Texas have to track down Dixie cups and paper plates, while students at New Central Elementary in Havana, Ill., and Mesa Middle School in Castle Rock, Colo., must come to class with a pack of printer paper. Wet Swiffer refills and plastic cutlery are among the requests from St. Joseph School in Seattle. And at Pauoa Elementary School in Honolulu, every student must show up with a four-pack of toilet paper.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/38711521

[villager]

25. It's essentially a tax -- you're buying school supplies the schools themselves used to provide

...but now, of course, can't...

[PA Democrat]

26. 4 large bottles of hand sanitizer? What do they do?

Bathe in the stuff?

My kids needed book covers, paper and pencils in grade school.

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. Most teachers make the kids use it after they go to the restroom

and before they go to lunch. I buy it myself for my room.

[Peregrine]

89. Yes they do

My students (7 - 8 grade) will use about half a bottle each time, generally leaving most of it on the desk.

[Kalyke]

27. Pretty normal to me in Tennessee

We've had lists like this since my son started school - and he starts middle school tomorrow with a similar list.

[Kerrytravelers]

32. I can only speak for California, but children are never to use cleaning detergents.

It is a safety issue. I can not imagine asking my students' families for disinfecting spray.

My mother was in the same district and was on the Safety Board. The rules were very clear.

This is just nuts.

[AnArmyVeteran]

33. Kids today are learning almost nothing. Kids 30 years ago learned w/o spending $500

It's amazing. All I needed to take to class were pens, pencils and paper to write on. Oh, how could I possibly learn? Back then teachers were respected and they were allowed to teach students. Now they have virtually no say in the educational process. Everything is top-down and teachers are forced to teach the answers to standardized tests.

It's amazing how so many people became great scientists, engineers, inventors and presidents when they grew up a long time ago where books were scarce and they had nothing more than a desire to learn. I never could imagine the children in the US becoming so stupid and ignorant in such a short amount of time. They are also lazy. It's been over ten years ago since a kid asked to mow my lawn. And when I look around while I'm driving I never see young people doing any work around their houses. When I was a kid I mowed lawns, roofed houses and did carpentry all before I was 13. I got my first official job at 14 working at a gas station. Kids today don't even know which end of a hammer to hold. We have become a nation of lazy idiots.

I just saw a story about a company that can't find any workers to do machinist work. The owner said she can't find anyone who wants to work in that kind of environment or has the skills necessary to do the job. She said people don't want to work with their hands. This country is going further and further downhill. The United States isn't number one in any meaningful or constructive category. We don't deserve to be...

[Hannah Bell]

38. the owner is lying. there are plenty of people who want to work with their hands, & plenty of

people with skills & aptitude.

there may be fewer who want to do it for shit wages, which is probably what she's offering since she has no takers.

anyone with mechanical skills can make better money working under the table or doing odd jobs than some businesses are prepared to pay.

and small businesses literally can't afford to pay better than under the table work.

[etherealtruth]

40. I don't know ....

I'm 48 and we had very similar lists (no sanitizers, disinfectants ...), but very similar and appropriate for the time. I've three children and I am sometimes amazed by the things they are learning.

[Horse with no Name]

48. We didn't have lists when I was growing up

We'd get a few clothes, new shoes, some pencils and paper and head back.
I don't even remember having a backpack (the horror) and had to actually carry my books back and forth.

[GoCubsGo]

75. We had book bags

They were essentially glorified tote bags. Not everyone used them.

[Dappleganger]

96. We used to make our book bags.

In high school we left them at home because they were seen as being childish.

[AnArmyVeteran]

127. How could you possibly learn?

:sarcasm:

[RamboLiberal]

144. Back when I went to school in the dark ages

Started in Kindergarten in 57 besides clothes we usually got for school notebook, loose-leaf paper for the notebook, lunch box, book bag, some pencils, pens, ruler, compass & protactor later for math, folders and that was about it. If you had a cold you brought some tissue.

School supplied everything else. I went to Catholic school & the entrepeneuring nuns actually had a little store in the school where they sold basic school supplies and candy of all things and had the 7th & 8th graders work free there before school & at lunch time.

[Taitertots]

83. It is funny when old people are delusional about the past and the present

The story about the company sounds like total bullshit. The owner needs to pay people more, it is simple labor economics. The owner needs to expect to train people to operate highly specialized machinery. That just sounds like an asshole boss whining because people won't be their wage slaves.

"When I was a kid I mowed lawns, roofed houses and did carpentry all before I was 13. I got my first official job at 14 working at a gas station"
Well doesn't that just make you special. Too bad all those jobs are already taken by older people. Why don't you try to find a construction job for a 13 year old and you will see that your expectations are laughably foolish?

What would you even offer someone if they did mow your lawn? Why would anyone mow your lawn when you are unwilling to give them a reasonable amount for it? Or are you an old person who doesn't understand inflation and gets pissy that children won't work for 1970's wages?

[LWolf]

108. My students are learning plenty, thanks. nt

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

133. No, wait, let me guess. They keep invading your lawn. -nt

[donco6]

200. That's ALL my kids end up doing.

But then they're all Mexican. They can get a car started with a paper clip and duct tape.

I went to elementary school 40 years ago. We had supply lists back then, too. Honest.

[tammywammy]

203. Wait, you taught a bunch of little MacGyver's???? n/t

[donco6]

206. I just wish they'd been as creative with their actual homework. n/t

[EFerrari]

39. When we were in school, we had to show up with a lunch.

In middle school and high school, we had to buy pens, pencils, keep binders and cover our books.

That was it.

:(

[lonestarnot]

232. I remember those days. Didn't even need to bring a lunch.

:)

[tammywammy]

41. Do all of these items go in a communal pot?

When I was in elementary school the only supplies I remember that we all shared was construction paper and tissues.

While we got a list that said pencils, crayons, paper, etc we didn't have to buy that each year. My mom would buy like pencils and paper when it was on sale, and we always had them on hand.

And why would you need 8 glue sticks? Can't you just get one for your child and when it runs low buy another?

I understand poorer families need help, so why not make a smaller supply list and a list of suggested donations.

[Obamanaut]

44. Some of the schools I know about (from talking with parents) do this.

I've always thought it was wrong. It teaches kids at an early age that government authority figures (in this case, teachers) can seize your stuff any time they want to and give it to someone else.

This year we found a second grade teacher through a retired school superintendent (he goes to the same gym, went to same church with my sister before she died).

We have adopted her, and told her to let us know when her class needs supplies - either the class or an individual student who may not be able to afford it.

[Raineyb]

53. They should learn that early. It's called taxes. Really it's no wonder we have

so many fuckwits who think every penny they make should stay in their pocket and NEVER be used for someone else.

[Dappleganger]

94. Paying taxes is a whole lot different

than going to Walgreens with Johnny and him choosing a special set of colored pencils and markers that HE likes than having the teacher snatch them away on the first day of school and dump them into a plastic bin for everyone to use. That act put our youngest son in tears in kindergarten. I would rather pay a tax ahead of time so all the choices are the same and no kid gets his/her feelings hurt.

[Obamanaut]

117. You said it better than I did. nt

[Raineyb]

137. The school supplies aren't bought to snatch them away from the kid.

So to say that they're confiscating their "stuff" is erroneous at best. Who said these were communal supplies. Except for things like tissues and baby wipes it is my understanding that the items are for that child's use. Neither of my nieces nor my nephew had to buy supplies for placement into a communal pot.

But the concept of taxes is still one that should be learned early and the previous poster's framing reeks of right winged propaganda.

[Dappleganger]

160. You're lucky, then.

We have had multiple teachers take away, remove, confiscate, appropriate--whatever you want to call it, supplies OTHER than just tissues and wipes from our children. And like I said before, I don't mind paying extra before hand--just don't make each child give up things that they pick and want to keep and throw it into a common bin the first day of school. We lost two pairs of good left handed pair of scissors that way, also.

I would LOVE for my statement to be erroneous but unfortunately it happened several times over the years over the course of having four children go through elementary school. Just because none of your neices or nephews had it happen doesn't mean that our experience was invalid.

BTW, are you saying that giving up those supplies is a way of teaching taxes?? That's pure BULLSHIT. I wrote several times that I don't mind paying more in taxes up front, just don't snatch stuff from kids that they went through the trouble of picking out and make them cry. If there is a need and we can fill it our family will be the first in line. Read my history before you judge so quickly. BTW, your "method" of teaching the need to help others is BS for a kindergartener.

[Romulox]

170. Do you realize how much I, a childless person, pay to send other people's kids to school each year?

Way more than a package of colored pencils, I can assure you. :hi:

[Raineyb]

179. I didn't say taking the supplies was a lesson in taxes. I said they should learn early

that there is a thing called taxes and that the government can and does "confiscate" in the same of the common good. That was based on the other poster's characterization. That the big bad government was coming to take their stuff. That actually does happen you know. It's called taxes at least when it comes to one's money. But I didn't say that the supplies should be taken as a lesson in said taxes so I would appreciate it if you didn't mis-characterize my position. I found the framing to be far too similar to that which we hear from right-wingers and still think his framing uses their memes.

[Dappleganger]

188. And I would appreciate

that you stop throwing around "right wing memes" and deal with the particulars, as this issue is NOT. You obviously know very little about children to think that this is an appropriate way to teach them about their civic responsibilities.

[Raineyb]

198. Fuck it I really can't be bothered if you're going to insist on mis-characterizing

my argument every time you reply.

And the meme that the government is stealing from you IS a right-winged meme. I will not pretend otherwise.

[Obamanaut]

116. It's also eminent domain, such as Kelo in Conn whose house was

taken for a development that never happened.

Taxes and redistribution just for the sake of redistribution are not the same. I no longer have kids in public school, but I do have the next two generations attending. If they are provided, by me or their parents, pencils and other supplies then those supplies should be theirs. Those supplies should not be taken and redistributed.

If a kid makes a A on a test, I guess some might think it is fine for the teacher to take some of his/her points from that test and give it a kid who is failing. That is redistribution, and some think it is fine. I don't.

If a kid has an apple in his lunch box, some proponents of redistribution would say that the apple should be divided amongst the kids who don't have one. If the apple kid wants to share, that is the right thing to do. If the teacher takes the apple and divides it, that is theft.

I guess the teacher taking the supplies for the communal pot could be considered theft as well.

[Raineyb]

138. You're the one accusing the teacher of stealing. I don't see what the big deal is about making a

collection for poorer kids. As for the lists, there's no assumption that the supplies are for a communal pot. In fact I said in this thread that the items were not except for the tissues, hand sanitizer and baby wipes.

[Obamanaut]

157. The big deal is how collections are made. If someone donates stuff, that's

one thing; simply taking it is another.

Tomorrow go to the grocery store of your choice, and buy three bags of stuff for your home. As you leave, the 'Distribution Police' go through your shopping basket and TAKE several items you had planned to use for your family during the week. They tell you "These items are for the 'less fortunate' and for some who didn't take the time to shop. Have a nice day."

Or, tomorrow go the the department store and buy 24 pencils and 6 big pink erasers for little Jimmy to have for school. If you are imprudent you will send all 30 of those items to school with him, even though you know he cannot use 24 pencils at one time. The teacher takes them and tells Jimmy "These items are for the 'less fortunate' and for some who didn't take the time to shop. Have a nice day."

[Raineyb]

181. The big deal is about the lists and what is on them. There was nothign that presumed a

communal pot. YOU are the one who brought in the stealing frame by assuming a communal pot when there is no evidence of such a thing. Just above someone said they'd have the children buy for the whole year at the beginning because it was easier that way. YOU changed the framing to one of stealing which frankly is a fucking right wing meme that they use anytime there's discussion of the commons and this wasn't even a discussion of a common pot.

[Obamanaut]

209. Post 41 entered the communal pot question. If a parent buys everything

on any of those lists, and sends everything purchased with the kid on day 1 of school, and if the stuff then is seized for a communal pot - call it what you will that makes it better for you.

If I bought two or three of the things that the list suggests, I most certainly would not send all two or three (or 24 pencils) all at the same time.

[Raineyb]

216. Post 41 ASKED if it was communal. It wasn't an assumption that it WAS communal. Quite the

difference there. n/t

[Obamanaut]

222. I immediately recognized it as a question, hence the remark that it

was the communal pot question. Note also that in the response to it, I did relate that I have spoken with parents whose kids have been subjected to this. Note also that we have adopted a teacher, and hopefully this won't occur in that class. Here is the link to that post 44 http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8951285&mesg_id=8951619

[Dappleganger]

161. Well said and agreed.

[Romulox]

171. Umm, you DO realize that every homeowner in your community subsidizes your little snowflakes, right?

I mean, right?

Because your "redistribution" spiel is almost comical when that fact is taken into account.

[Obamanaut]

208. My youngest snowflake is in her late 30s. And today I received the

proposed tax bill for two properties. I guess I'm subsidizing other snowflakes, huh.

Umm, and if a parent buys 24 pencils and 6 big pink erasers, that parent would be prudent to only send the minimum with the kid daily.

[Romulox]

212. The idea of sharing with others really upsets you that much?

A package of pencils costs a couple bucks. Is it a matter of "principle" that a kid not extend such a small act of sharing with other kids in his class? Because I don't see any principle at play other than "MINE!" :shrug:

[Obamanaut]

221. Sharing is a good thing. Check out this response in this very thread.

It is post 44 http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8951285&mesg_id=8951619

[Raineyb]

54. From what I understand, most of that stuff doesn't. But the tissues, paper towels, hand sanitizer,

and baby wipes do. I have no clue why the schools would demand so many of these items at the beginning of the year. Seems to me that one glue stick should suffice until it ran low and then you go out and buy another one.

[proud2BlibKansan]

65. The problem is that most kids bring stuff on day one and then never again

So you ask for it all at the beginning of the year.

[Raineyb]

68. I guess that makes sense but damn that can be pricey! My sister has three

kids in school now and when she went over the list for the older two I could only shake my head.

[proud2BlibKansan]

85. Well I never fussed as long as they had what they needed every day

Some parents probably prefer buying it all in August when it's on sale.

[Phentex]

158. Where do you store it?

I had an elem. teacher say she didn't have room for everything and she appreciated when some of us held off. I would always ask periodically about what was needed so it wasn't like I was trying to get out of purchasing the supplies.

Now the teens are too embarrassed to take stuff in, lol. I have to take it at the first meeting or something.

[Dappleganger]

61. Some do and some don't.

Even within the school it varies from teacher to teacher, or only certain items went into the pot and the rest the student was able to keep.

[proud2BlibKansan]

63. I never did the communal thing

But most teachers do.

[undeterred]

42. How many no.2 pencils can one kid use?

Especially when handwriting is going out of style.

[proud2BlibKansan]

49. Many kids go through a pencil a day

You'd be amazed.

I am in a resource room and every kid who comes to me gets to take a pencil back to class every day.

[northernlights]

43. I don't know where you're shopping

but those supplies don't come close to $500 where I'm at.

I was shopping for myself yesterday and ran into a teacher shopping for supplies for her kids. Notebook pads were on sale starting today at 1 cent/pad at Target. I paid 15 cents each at Wallie's World yesterday because it wasn't worth the gas or time to come back.

She told me she also finds herself buying her students underwear and socks, and said she's average, others do even more. :wow: That's life in rural Maine -- uberwealthy and dirt poor. Very little in-between...

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

90. That's including new school clothes

the school supplies (including backpacks for both girls) were around $85.

[Dappleganger]

97. I know several teachers who regularly buy for their students...

and one who slips in food and snacks into several backpacks on Friday afternoons because she knows how much they depend on school meals for their nutrition. It's really sad, but our teachers are on the front lines of extreme poverty and neglect in many areas.

[realisticphish]

46. That's not that far from what I had to get 15 years ago

:shrug:

[Horse with no Name]

47. This is the list we got:

1 Backpack
1 pair Fiskar Scissors
4 Glue Sticks
2 boxes 24 count Crayons
1 package Construction Paper
1 package 18" X 12" Manila Paper
2 boxes Kleenex
1 Small Plastic School Box
2 Spiral Notebooks
1 package Blue Bic/Papermate erasable ink pens
2 packages #2 Pencils
2 Large Block Erasers
1 tub Baby Wipes
2 Plastic Pocket Folders with pocket and brads
2 Dry Erase Markers
1 package 8 count Markers
2 Packages Lined Notebook Paper
1 package Sandwich Size Ziploc Bags
1 package Quart Size Ziploc Bags

I spent about $25 on the supplies and $10 on the backpack.

My granddaughter has had a huge growth spurt over the summer--so NOTHING fits anymore.
I was able to get 2 pairs of jeans, 5 pairs of shorts, 10 shirts, panties, socks, and a pair of tennis shoes for about $130.

I thought I did really well shopping to get her back to school for less than $175.

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. What's up with the Fiskars scissors??

I would NEVER ask for a certain brand of anything. Couldn't see myself encouraging the families to support one particular company. Plus, not all kids LIKE Fiskars. Some prefer a different brand.

I also never asked my students to bring their own scissors. I usually let them keep their own supplies. I didn't think some parents should have to supply stuff for OTHER kids. And I didn't want my kids to have scissors in their desks. So I bought those with my budget.

Sheesh. I just DESPISE these school supplies lists.

[GoCubsGo]

77. Probaby avoiding having some kid bring in the old-fashioned kind

Note the sharp points that Fiskars and their clones don't have:

[proud2BlibKansan]

84. Actually Fiskars do have sharp points

There are several varieties. The sharp ones work better.

[msanthrope]

112. OooooH OooooH-- (raises hand!) I know what's up with Fiskars!!! (and other 'brands')

Last year, my kid's teacher specified 'Crayola' products. I asked about it, and the teacher told me that he was tired of one parent buying Crayola markers, and one parent buying $ store exploding markers....

Some brands are better quality, and teachers get a little tired of their supplies quickly being winnowed down as the cheap crap breaks, explodes, goes dry.

So now, they ask for stuff that works--and there's no excuse as for price, 'cause this week at Target and WallyWorld the Crayola stuff is on sale and cheaper than Roseart and the $ store.

Fiskars is a good brand, AND many models are made in the USA.

I don;t mind the school lists. Cost of doing business, and I ALWAYS donate more to make up for parents who forget/can't afford.

[eppur_se_muova]

148. EXPLODING markers?? What's the deal on that? nt

[msanthrope]

149. Barrel of marker snaps, breaks,

and the ink-soaked innard cloth-like tube goes all over child.

Perhaps not an actual explosion, but it looks damn like it.

[Dappleganger]

169. What we're complaining about re: the cost of doing business.

Is that our schools education funds should 1) be adequately funded in the first place and 2) take care of all of those supplies equally so no family must bring in extra supplies, period.

[Raineyb]

51. My sister was just complaining about her list to me earlier today.

Between the third grader and the sixth grader she needs over 25 composition notebooks alone. She doesn't have the kindergartner's list yet. Aside from not including the kindergartner's supplies, it also does not include, that's in addition to construction paper, loose-leaf paper, baby wipes, paper towels, copy paper, markers (The sixth grader needs 2 sets and I'm wondering why since a set of markers has x number of colors and getting 2 sets seems to make no sense at all), zip lock bags, "cheap" headphones, a scientific calculator (which I'm trying to figure out why the sixth grader needs it since I don't think you should use a calculator for algebra until you can do algebra WITHOUT a calculator)

The third grader, had a school list and then a separate list for her class. (Still wondering what the deal is with the "cheap" headphones neither the niece nor nephew a Walkman or an Ipod. Yes I know I'm a bit fixated on the cheap headphones.) So on top of the school's list she has even more of that crap to buy some of which seems to be duplicated.

On the other hand, I just bought books for the two classes I needed to get my Associates and it cost me 290 bucks. Two of the books were used. Why am I paying 126 dollars for a used book I have no clue. The new book was the cheapest of the three.

Sorry for the mini-rant but unfortunately it is quite normal. My sister, the teacher, says that because there is no money for supplies a lot of stuff gets added to the school supply list. (Which includes the copy paper which the teachers use for their copies and print outs for the class)

[Esurientes]

81. I suggested adding earbuds to our supply list this year.

I haven't seen the new list yet, so I don't know if the teachers took my advice. I'm the librarian in our school and over the years, our headphones for the computers have been damaged to the point that we don't have one usable pair to offer students when they need to listen to speeches or music in the computer lab. (Sure, they could just use the speakers, but when everyone's doing research for reports on a different president, scientist, whatever -- that makes an annoying din.)

As Kerrytravelers mentioned, we were told never to let the students use cleaning supplies and not to use them ourselves when students were present. There's a dispenser with approved sanitizer in every room of our school, and the custodians keep them filled. Nobody is supposed to bring Purell, etc.

Toilet paper -- hah! Since I don't have homeroom students, I buy and bring facial tissues myself. If I run out of the good stuff unexpectedly, I'm allowed to get a roll of toilet paper from the restroom and let the students blow their noses with it. Looks great sitting on my counter. :sarcasm:

[AlabamaLibrul]

52. I never had a list, and I think the "cram the van" shit is outrageous

They're always outside Walmarts, and only *outside* *Walmarts*, very strongly encouraging people to use Walmart as an intermediary in their charitable gifts, instead of the Walmart being soooo kind as to donate probably about $50 (in actual cost, not retail price) of pencils and spiral notebooks like certain other stores that have fallen out of favor recently due to political contributions.

More of the typical "charity as social support", except with a more devious corporatist side.

[BeachBaby]

55. Just wait until they get to middle school - where you can add flash drives to the list!

[Raineyb]

57. And scientific calculators. n/t

[etherealtruth]

72. Wait 'til they need a graphing calculator

[Dappleganger]

74. Those really should be subsidized by the schools.

TI has been making a KILLING for years on their calculators! We have one from dh's college days and another newer one which has been passed around the family.

[tammywammy]

136. When I was in elementary school

The math classes had a set of calculators that we would use. You can get a scientific calculator for around $10-15, and you don't have to buy one each year. Now the graphing calculators are a different story, they were $100 when I was in high school and they're still around $80 that for a TI-83. I just finished my last math class at my university, I should try and sell my calculator....

[Raineyb]

139. I was going to give my nephew mine but I wasn't sure if I needed it. I couldn't get

Calculus so I'm taking pre-calculus to take care of a math requirement. I find it odd that they go to the calculator so soon to be honest. But then I hear that one is allowed to take a calculator in to the SAT which was verboten when I took it.

[Norrin Radd]

231. My chemistry teacher when I was in high school in the late 80's

was perpetually angry at me because I couldn't afford a scientific calculator.

[Dappleganger]

71. Yep, but I can find them for cheap.

Just keep an eye out for slickdeals alerts on them.

[Dappleganger]

56. Those are actually short lists.

Just wait until they get into middle school!

If I recall correctly, the teachers used to be able to deduct small expenses like these but can do it no longer. The pricing you listed is correct, though. We have four kids although one just graduated and the senior spent his own money on his supplies/clothes (he just took me along for moral support). Just our middle school daughter alone was $350 (including classroom supplies), and another $60 cash for locker rental, planner, gym clothes, etc. on registration day. It wouldn't surprise me if most folks in this area spend 2-3 times what we did on clothes. At least our daughter is wearing shoes from last year (just added new laces).

[Raineyb]

59. You have to pay for the locker? n/t

[tammywammy]

60. You have to pay for her to have a locker???

That's nuts.

[AlabamaLibrul]

62. $75 for the kid's locker here.

And that's *just* the typical hallway locker. Nothing else. Then again though, when I was in school, they were full-length lockers. These are two-up and can barely fit a set of books and binders, much less a backpack. It takes a lot of stuffing and "jamming" due to materials hitting the lock is common, which causes unexcused tardies.

It's not a security deposit, or anything like that. You pay it every single year, and you don't get it back.

[Raineyb]

66. WTF?

That's bullshit! $75 bucks for a locker? What a fucking rip-off!

[Dappleganger]

67. Damn!

Is that high school or the lower levels too? They are 2-up in the high school but they have to be SHARED by another student and a lot of theft happens so our kids just never kept anything in there (although they pay for it). In middle school they don't have to share.

[AlabamaLibrul]

78. High school level.

Middle school is/was $35-40 IIRC. No lockers in elementary school.

And then mandatory uniforms at a *public* school, all public schools in the county, which is really just a highly-dictated polo shirt/khaki type deal in white/navy tops and khaki/navy bottoms only with all of these little specifics about minutia, but since the retailers know exactly what you *have* to wear, well, the price situation is predictable.

$5 for a "planner" (I use the term loosely, it's just a little spiral notebook that could be half the size if they didn't insist on including a bunch of BS nobody cares about in it)

A form describing what type of housing you live in upon registration.

$25 for a presumably taxpayer-funded "parking space" on school grounds.

$25 at registration just for being a senior, called "graduation express fee" or some BS, when you still have to pay all the costs for the graduation ceremony itself.

Mandatory drug testing for being in the academic bowl.

Principal made references to "running this place like a concentration camp" or "a Nazi" because of jackass kids being jackasses and shouting inappropriate words during the "Freshman Welcome" assembly and a couple other times.

I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot, because I'm so lucky as to have gotten out of the goddamned awful 2000s school game after last year.

[Dappleganger]

91. Don't get me started on the parking fee.

We did make our senior pay for it with his money, but it's $100 for the year and for one ONE car. That's right--if you are not so lucky a teen to have your own car and must share the family minivan with mom (which our son does), you have to pay another $100 fee for each additional car you switch between. I have already called and bitched about it and they made no indication of changing their minds. Ugh.

Graduation fee is a steal at $35 compared to everything else like senior pics and the senior trip. Once again, we are asking our son to help w/costs since he has a good part-time job.

[WolverineDG]

100. wow, all I paid was 75 cents for a sticker

:wow:

dg

[Dappleganger]

104. Well there are a LOT of parents who can afford it with little problem.

Then there are those of us who won't ever drive anything nearly half as nice as what most 16 yr. olds do in our high school.

[tammywammy]

120. I graduated in 1999, and I don't remember a graduation fee

Well, except you had to buy your gown, but I think it was like $10. We did have to pay for parking stickers, it was $10 for the sophomores (they park on the far far far lot) and $20 for juniors/seniors.

[pstokely]

159. Don't forget the class ring

You can just pawn it after you graduate

[Dappleganger]

166. LOL!

The oldest daughter paid for hers and our senior son didn't want one.

[pstokely]

175. Does your daughter still have the ring?

nt

[Dappleganger]

186. She does.

She could only afford the cheapest stainless version so it's not worth anything.

[pstokely]

226. How much did she pay?

Who wears those after they graduate anyway?

[tammywammy]

76. That's bullshit. You should NOT have to pay for a freaking locker. n/t

[Dappleganger]

64. Yep.

Locker rental is $5 and another $5 for the lock (which can only be the one issued by the school). We used to get their planners for free each year but have to pay now. Actually, I don't mind paying for those as they are really helpful and each one is customized to their specific school's calendar.

What slays me too is that I know within 2 weeks we will be inundated with requests by the room mothers for more supplies and chipping in to get the teacher a Walmart gift card so they can get whatever they didn't get on the list. They do that several times a year.

[Raineyb]

140. You have to buy the lock from them too? What a bleeding rip off joint that

place is. Seriously this is ridiculous.

[Dappleganger]

167. Oh it is.

And since we live in the state of Disney they go on very expensive field trips. We applied for assistance last year on all the trips and that cuts the bill in half.

[Raineyb]

182. Is this what they do instead of having a state income tax? Nickel and dime you to death

with fees for every damn thing? Sheesh! I thought our state was bad but I can honestly say I have NEVER paid for a locker and the master lock that one can buy at the store was just fine to use to lock the locker I did have.

[Dappleganger]

185. That is exactly what they do.

The state has raised fees in all areas (try to register a cheapo used car for less than $500 now) and the legislators get to brag about lowering tax rates and their fight to continue to lower tax rates while education funding continues to be cut as well as everything else.

[Morning Dew]

243. I had to buy my gym locker lock as a Freshman in 1971

I don't remember how much it was though. I still had that lock as recently as three years ago but I'm not sure where it is now.

Our list back then included 8 or 12 bars of soap for showering in gym class. You gave it to the instructor on the first day and then bars were available in the showers. Oh boy, yuck.

Heh, I still remember my high school hall locker combination as well... one of those comfy full size ones. . . plenty of room to store weed in it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

73. $60 to RENT a locker???

Is it made of gold? Does it come with its own security guard??

That's insane.

[Vickers]

79. That's pretty typical around here (South Florida). I've been told

by a teacher that they "pad" the supplies list to make up for the students from lower-income families that aren't able to bring their own supplies (i.e., it goes into a collective pool).

[etherealtruth]

80. My youngest will be entering high school in the fall and my middle one is a HS senior

.... I just had a flashback to their elementary school days.

Teachers would send class wish lists home (we still had the school supply lists as outlined above) ... this allowed parents that wanted to help the class out (and provide supplies for less financially fortunate students)to do so and it protected the dignity of the students in need.

[proud2BlibKansan]

87. I always bought an extra set of supplies and sent that in with each of my kids

I knew there would always be a kid who didn't bring supplies.

[Dappleganger]

95. Our teachers hand out wish lists to every parent

during orientation in addition to the supply lists which are already on the school website. Then the room mother begins to shake down the parents for the next few weeks via email until the list is filled. They do this at least three times a year.

BTW, we are those parents who delighted in giving gift cards to the teachers in order to buy whatever they wanted for the classroom as a thanks when we had a better income. We just cannot afford to that any longer due to underemployment and rising costs within our family.

[etherealtruth]

99. Times are really tough, its impossible for many to give

You sound as if you live in a community similar to mine. I can't help but worry about the kids in the poorest communities.

My biggest complaint is being hustled into selling junk (fundraisers). I will donate whatever time and money I can .... but, I don't want to sell crap to friends and family.

[Dappleganger]

103. The only fundraiser we have ever participated in has been the carnival.

Everything else I have made it a practice to say no to and we immediately send back the materials. It's an ethical decision, I do not believe that our children should be used as mini-salespeople to beg for money for worthy school needs when our state legislators continue to raid our coffers and undercut the education funding year after year. It's a damn shame that a child should be forced to beg (by peer pressure and contests) for a safe playground when once upon a time those things received adequate, yearly funding because our elected folks actually gave a damn about kids.

All of that has changed.

[surrealAmerican]

88. No scissors?

What's a gluestick for if you don't have scissors?

The lists sound pretty standard to me. These supplies are supposed to last the whole year.

[LWolf]

93. It's pretty normal.

Not the clothes, of course.

It's been more than a decade since the days of adequate school supply budgets for teachers. We get a budget that is supposed to last all year, and cover everything all 30 kids need. My budget doesn't come anywhere close to covering basics.

So we have longer lists. My teaching team divides that list between "individual" and "community" supplies. The individual list is minimal. A binder, a hand-held pencil sharpener, a calculator. Hopefully, a backpack to carry the stuff in.

The community supply list includes pencils, paper, tissue, and pens.

Anyone who donates to the community supplies can use them. Those who don't, provide their own. They provide about half of the paper, pencils, etc., and my budget, and I, provide the other half.

My budget, school and personal, supplies art supplies, hand cleaner, and anything else we might need. When there's nothing left in my school account, it comes out of my own funds.

I've learned to spend my school budget quickly. The last 3 years, if there was any money left in the account by the end of February, the district took it back. So leaving some money for things we'll need at the end of the year is a bad idea.

I'm fortunate to have a FAN advocate at my school that will make sure that any student whose family can't afford supplies gets them. While she is there to support students and families, if I run out of something, she can sometimes fill the gap for basics, leaving me to spend my own funds on art supplies, hand cleaner, etc..

[MissB]

101. It's even worse when your kid is old enough to need a graphing calculator

And of course it should be a TI 83 Plus, which runs about $100.

My two kids are a year apart, and of course there is no way they can share one. I told them if they lose it, they buy the next one themselves.

Our office has a school supply drive each year at this time. I buy extras for the barrels. I also usually buy two or three solar scientific calcs- and at least one pink!- for the barrel. TI makes a decent scientific calc that usually goes on sale for $10-$12. Works up until they need the graphing one. (I buy a pink one clearly because I want it to fall into the hands of a girl. Girls are way under represented in math.)

Our school offers school supply packs for prepurchase at the end of the year. They're about $60-$70 a kid, and I always pass. I just keep the list handy and watch the sales. I spend less than $20/kid.

[donco6]

202. Our district buys those.

We just spent $40,000 restocking them.

But in a poor district, the parents could never afford them, so there'd be no point in trying. But in a rich one, they can offset that cost by making the parents pay. So we go with one less teacher. That's the way it goes.

[Buns_of_Fire]

102. No library paste? What'll the little nippers snack on during the day?

I guess the glue sticks will work if they like granola bars, and Elmer's is okay if they're into yogurt smoothies, but I'm a traditionalist about these things (not to mention a recovering pastoholic from my Bennett Elementary School days).

[Ramulux]

105. I have to be missing something

How is all that anywhere near $500?

[MissB]

106. I think the OP added the cost of the clothes n/t

[Ramulux]

110. Still

How do clothes for two people cost 100's of dollars? Clothes cost nothing and if you are having money problems why are you buying expensive clothing? This doesnt make sense.

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

118. $5.99 for t-shirts, which I don't consider expensive

3 for each kid, that doesn't seem too extravagant but that's $36. Add jeans, and sweaters, and a jacket each, socks and underwear, shoes, dresses, it adds up fast. Backpacks were either $15 and up for a decent one, or $5 for one that would tear up the minute you tried to actually carry anything in them. Everything I bought was on sale, but I have been boycotting Walmart since 2000 and I tried to buy stuff that was well made and would last that wasn't sewn by some kid in another country. This was for two girls, and they had absolutely nothing decent to wear, nothing. Please don't judge unless you know the whole situation.

[Ramulux]

121. I didnt mean to judge

I just dont think my parents ever spent more than $50 on my brother and I when we were in school. Its crazy that you are required to buy that much crap though.

[Dappleganger]

168. When you have more than one child the cost always goes up.

And quite honestly, Walmart wasn't the one giving the best deals this school year.

[keep_it_real]

109. You are lucky there was no note book computer on that list

[janx]

111. Seeing people buying school supplies for their kids recently

made me awfully glad that mine are grown now. I was never so broke that I couldn't afford them, but a couple of years it was close. Your list looks typical.

When I was growing up it was nothing like that, but when my kids were in school we had to buy loads of supplies--multiple folders and binders (six or eight folders?), huge boxes of crayons, graph paper, markers, calculators, colored pencils, you name it!

We did not, however, have to buy disinfecting wipes, hand sanitizer, or disinfecting spray. I taught my kids to wash their hands.

[The Backlash Cometh]

114. Yes.

And they will pool all the main supplies together, except for the obvious things she'll use right away.

And then some parent is going to find out during the year that two or three parents didn't contribute (because they financially couldn't) and will complain about it.

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

119. And I have absolutely no problem

With glue sticks and such being shared by an entire class. I know teachers that go broke trying to supply their own classrooms.

[lostnfound]

122. Private school. No supplies to buy. But I wish they'd raise my taxes so that

the public school kids' parents didn't have to all go shopping. It's ridiculous and embarrassing.

[proud2BlibKansan]

126. I went to private school and we had to buy even more supplies than the public school kids

We had to buy our books too.

[lostnfound]

155. Books too??? That's terrible.

But seriously, I'd be perfectly fine to pay more than the $11,000 I now pay in school taxes just so all the kids in public schools got handed the same supplies at the beginning of every year. It's ridiculous that they have to play this shell game in the schools. Wherever our government touches the masses (schools, libraries), it gets chintzy. Wherever our government touches corporations (banker bailouts, no-bid contracts to Halliburton), it gets profligate. And the parents are already so busy (and broke).

[msanthrope]

132. Not true--kid's in private school, has a list. n/t

[lostnfound]

154. Not true for some, but true at this one. No supplies to buy.

It's one of my favorite things about the place, actually. A small thing, but it seems kind to the parents to not send us all out on the exact same errand at the end of summer. Plus I am sure it is a little cheaper for the school to buy in bulk for its students.

[pipi_k]

235. My kids had to buy supplies for their kids in private school...

My son and his wife have taken the girls out of private school and put them in public school this year, but they'll probably still have to buy supplies. I don't know for sure so I'll have to ask.

My daughter still has her son going to that private school and she has a list a mile long. The only thing they save on is clothing, what with uniforms and all.

[SoCalDem]

123. What the hell are they doing with all that glue

:rofl:

and 24 crayons?? get real.. gotta have the 64 ct with the sharpener:)

[proud2BlibKansan]

125. We use it to keep the children in their seats

:evilgrin:

And don't even think about coming in my classroom with one of those freakin crayon sharpeners. One year our custodian asked if we would please ban them cause he was sick of cleaning up the shavings.

[Renew Deal]

130. I talked to my sister who has taught both K and 3rd grade.

She said both lists are fine. She would make some very minor changes like the pencil box or sticky notes, but otherwise she says the lists are good. She said the Kindergarten list actually seems small. I asked her about the glue sticks. She said that kids go through them and that they dry out easily. They dry out if the cap is left off.

We didn't have hand sanitizer when I was a kid, but it's normal in school now. She says she even sends kids to wash their hands after they sneeze.

[proud2BlibKansan]

142. Those glue sticks don't last long at all

But the bottle glue is so messy.

[tnlefty]

135. What? No paper towels or dry erase markers...

all of that plus is what we've done since ours first started school and the oldest in entering his 3rd year at MTSU this year.

[Luciferous]

143. That list is pretty similar to what we have here

except for the sanitizer and disinfecting stuff... those seem like items the school should provide.

I usually buy extra supplies and give them to kids who need them, because some of the stuff that they expect the kids to get is ridiculous and I know there are a lot of parents out there who can't afford it. For example, my daughter had to get specific dividers that cost about $15 and purple highlighters- the only purple highlighters I could find came in a pack that was like $10. I think with the exception of her backpack those were the two most expensive items on her list.

[LibDemAlways]

145. The only people who would find that list

unusual or out of line are people without kids. That's pretty much the norm - at least in Calif. where I am. School budget cutbacks have been so devastating that parents are asked to supply not only all of their child's paper, pens, pencils, crayons,notebooks, etc., but also the janitorial supplies for the school. That's what we've devolved to.

Hell, one of the local districts around here closed down for a week last May - put teachers and students on furlough - as a cost saving measure. And there wasn't even a public outcry. People just accept this shit as the norm. Sad, pitiful situation.

[uncommon]

178. Perhaps in some areas, but not everywhere - this list is highly unusual

where I live.

[LibDemAlways]

183. You must live in an area where schools are still reasonably well funded.

Not the case here at all.

My family moved to Southern Cal when I was 8, and I attended public school. Back then (40 years ago) the schools had the funds they needed to operate, and I know my parents were never asked to supply anything. Now the schools hit up the parents constantly - not only for supplies but for the money to keep programs like music and PE going. The local district cannot afford to pay an elementary school music teacher. Parents have taken up the slack and donate the money for a part-time instructor who travels from school to school. This district is fairly affluent. In less affluent areas, the kids do without. It's sad.

[uncommon]

187. Wow that is awful. I live in MA - we have pretty good services of all kinds

here still for the most part.

Then again, they call us Taxachusetts lol.

[LunaSea]

150. The retailers are loving it more every year-

For the retailers, back-to-school season is second only to the holidays, and parents’ longer school-supply lists are a bonus — especially at a time when shoppers are reluctant to spend. While the impact is not enormous, retailers are looking for anything to lift sales.

“It’s newfound business that the retailers didn’t have a year or two ago,” said Steve Mahurin, executive vice president of merchandising for Office Depot

The shift is notable even at stores that sell much more than office supplies.

“When I walk through the back rooms of our stores where the layaway orders are stored, not only are you seeing things you expect to see — computers, apparel,” said Mark Snyder, chief marketing officer of Kmart, “you’re seeing these sort of household supplies that teachers are asking, school systems are asking, kids to now bring.”

For several years, the lists have been getting lengthier, but in many parts of the country, educators and retailers say, the economic downturn has also pushed them into uncharted territory. “It’s definitely spiked this year,” said Bob Thacker, senior vice president of marketing and advertising at OfficeMax

more-
http://www.cnbc.com/id/38711521

[Romulox]

172. Any good reason parents shouldn't have to pay their own kids' supplies?

(Provided they are able, of course.)

[uncommon]

176. Many are not able - and the schools should be able to handle the cost of basic supplies like they

did when I was in elementary school 20 years ago.

Also it seems to vary wildly from school to school.

[Romulox]

180. Fair enough, but many seem outraged to be spending money on their own children

The OP doesn't seem to be describing being broke, just that it's too much to spend on his/her own kin...

[uncommon]

189. I think it's the excessiveness of it -

I mean, I expect to buy my daughter clothes and a backpack and a lunch box and maybe some crayons or pencils or whatever, but schools should have art supplies and paper and things like that - and should be able to provide soap for kids to wash their hands.

Our kids are way too dependent on hand sanitizer these days.

[Romulox]

211. Well, I will admit that my parents probably couldn't have afforded that list, but..

the school didn't provide much of that to us, either. We simply did without all of that crap. I always had a pencil, an eraser, a notebook, a lunch of some sort (almost always) and reasonably clean clothes when I went to school. That's it.

So I agree with you that the list seems excessive to me, too.

[LanternWaste]

205. For the same good reasons that the...

For the same good reasons that the educational system we all pay into shouldn't have to pay for it...? :shrug:

[Romulox]

210. The "educational system" doesn't have any independent sources of revenue.

The "educational system" primarily gets its money from local property taxes, paid by many people who don't have any children in the system.

That's all well and fine (except that I believe that local schools should be funded on the state level, to equalize spending per pupil in rich and poor districts.) But it's not very convincing to complain that "the school" should have to buy supplies for your kid.

[LibertyLover]

173. I have a daughter going into 3rd grade this year

and yeah, those lists, especially the 3rd grade list, are just about exactly what we had to get for her. About the only difference is no flash cards but rather a calculator.

[uncommon]

191. Wow, we weren't allowed to use calculators until high school.

And rightly so - I actually knew how to do basic math and algebra by the time I got to 9th grade.

[LibertyLover]

201. Heck - I didn't use a calculator until college

Of course that was in 1974 and calculators were pretty new :rofl: Believe it or not, the kid has already been introduced to algebra. They don't call it that in 2nd grade and they use a question mark instead of an X, but it's algebra. I was somewhat taken aback when we got the list, I can tell you.

[pstokely]

227. You mean these

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCcgoTc8AQc

[LibertyLover]

233. No, I mean

the Texas Instruments SR 10, version 2

http://datamath.org/Sci/WEDGE/sr-10-v2.htm

[uncommon]

174. It seems to be in some places - not here -

all I had to buy for my daughter for kindergarten was a backpack, lunch box, and some clothes.

But I suspect the teachers foot the bill for the art supplies and extras. We would donate items for the whole class a few times a year - tissues, hand sanitizer, snacks.

[blueamy66]

192. I went to Catholic school..

My parents paid tuition and bought uniforms....never had to pay for supplies though.

This is ridiculous. Why am I paying taxes?????

[Jkid]

193. From my experience, students will not actually must about 50% of the items on the list.

[WCIL]

195. My kids went to parochial school

and the list looks about right. I WISH they used the communal supply method, because the kids had to write their names on everything - each individual crayon, pencil, glue stick, notebook, and so on. It took an hour at home just getting ready to start school after the supplies were purchased. The only exceptions were the kleenex and ziplocks which were shared.

When the kids started back to school in January the teacher usually had to send out an appeal for more kleenex.

Our teachers not only required Fiskars scissors, but you had to buy the "neatbooks", the notebooks with the perforated rather than spiral binding. There was a different colored notebook for each subject, fat and thin markers for various geography and art uses, and you had to have a cover on all your textbooks by the end of the first week or you stayed in at recess to cover them (and write your name on all your supplies if you tried to cheat that requirement).

When I was in high school in the early '80's you paid $5 for a parking sticker. Now so many kids drive to school that most juniors don't even get a spot, and it costs $40. You have to use the schools lock on your locker so they can be opened and inspected at any time.

[happy_liberal]

196. They dump that disinfecting gel on kids hands and send them off to eat

Just that alone, and the way this 'method' has spread so rapidly throughout the states makes me wonder...who owns these products they force us to buy? People really think that dumping some crap gel on their hands is cleaning them. No one wonders whether it is good to eat that stuff as it is on your hands... transfers to sandwich. I think germs might be healthier.


But the one thing I really want to say is that there is plenty of money in the schools. But just like every other organization, and particularly the schools, there is a large group of people paid huge sums to SIT ON ASS in some building. There are so many freaking administrators making $100,000 a year, paid to sit in their office with their big titles, going out to power lunches and feeling important meanwhile doing very little to help educate children.

Just because money is going to the schools does not mean it is well spent. They have huge budgets for computer software for instance, but instead of making the best use of that money, they spend most of it buying the new microsoft office for 60 computers every year or other such nonsense.

Just like our local boys and girls club. They get a grant for 30,000 for "computer security" (huh?) but they had to shut down over the summer because of no funds. I dunno but I think having a safe place to go all summer is more important than "computer security" which they could probably find a program for free online.

I think there is still pleny of money going to schools, it needs to be better distributed. As long as the parents keep buying these basic supplies like kleenex...they will keep jacking everyone around. But hey Bill Gates is doing well for himself. Anyone wonder what percentage of education dollars goes to microsoft?

[uncommon]

204. It's laziness, pure and simple. It is easier for every kid to get a squirt on the way out the door

than to have them line up and wash their hands.

[proud2BlibKansan]

220. And that is a HUGE waste of instructional time

We don't have the time to follow each kid into the restroom to watch them wash their hands.

[donco6]

225. When was the last time you were even IN a school?

Do you have any idea how long it takes 450 kids to line up to use the bathroom? And that's a SMALL school. They get a total of 45 minutes for lunch AND recess.

[uncommon]

234. My daughter's school has a sink in the classroom where the kids can wash their hands.

[happy_liberal]

242. "They get a total of 45 minutes for lunch AND recess"

haha- when is the last time you were in school


There are sinks in classrooms pretty frequently. Somehow many of us survived our childhoods without putting this crap gel on our hands all the time.

[proud2BlibKansan]

217. The problem is the way funds are designated; you can't cross budget lines

Your boys and girls club got a grant that stipulated the money go for computer security, not overall operating expenses.

We deal with this in education all the time. I'll never forget about 20 years ago when the feds started giving us grant money for a breakfast program at school. We got money to buy the food but no money to pay workers to serve it or teachers to supervise kids while they ate.

And if you spend grant money inappropriately or refuse to spend any portion of it, you don't get the grant again.

So it isn't so much about how well spent the money is. It's about the rules attached to the money.

[happy_liberal]

223. ...and who makes those rules attached to the money

It seems to me microsoft must enjoy the fact so much $$ gets designated for software that must be purchase from them. Works out really well for them.

[proud2BlibKansan]

224. Well govt bureaucrats make those decisions for govt funds

Sometimes the grants are attached to legislation, and so the lawmakers are making those rules.

We really get far more grants from the feds than from any private corporations like microsoft.

[happy_liberal]

244. microsoft gives campaign donations then lawmakers give grants for schools to buy microsoft

This is exactly the corruption I am talking about.

Some bozos in DC make the decisions as to where federal education tax dollars go...and they work for who?

These are the same people who work for the Military Industrial Complex, Big Pharma, Big Insurance etc.

Do people really think education dollars are spent wisely?

Instead of just buying your kleenex and garbage bags, people need to start seeing what is going on.

The schools don't need more money, they need to get to corporate bullshit out of the schools.

[pstokely]

228. Micro$oft gets a license fee for each computer Windows is installed on

nt

[Blue_Tires]

197. an ex-GF of mine used to teach in Los Angeles

and she had supplement a lot of supplies out of her own paycheck since so many parents couldn't afford to supply their kids...

[Javaman]

237. boy how times have changed...

all I ever needed was a note book and a pencil.

I honestly don't know how parents make it today.

And yes, although I don't have kids I always support our schools and teachers. I came from a family of them.

[uncommon]

238. The real issue here is that American children are entitled to a FREE public education -

that means they should, theoretically, be able to walk into a school with nothing but a sandwich for lunch and be able to get an education - on the government's dime.

It's irrelevant whether the list is long or short - that we refuse to adequately fund our public schools and pay teachers an appropriate wage is the problem.

[happy_liberal]

246. exactly!

And if you have a problem funding the schools, the places to cut are not janitorial supplies expected to be brought by the students...cut out the huge waste going to microsoft and other corporations that have their hands on our education dollars.

And then take a look at the administrators...for every one teacher getting paid dirt wages for the hardest job in the world, there are two administrators sitting on ass making 100K.

[pezDispenser]

239. That list seems in line with what we just purchased

for a K and 2nd grader. Here's a tip, in 2 or 3 weeks all that stuff will go on super sale. Get next years list from your school (1st and 4th) grade and stock up now. Even the school uniforms our kids wear go on sale super cheap come middle September.

I understand thats easier said than done after just shelling out $500, but it only takes 1 year of that to get ahead. You'll really save $$$.

[pstokely]

241. The lists could change between now and next year for the next grade

Are supplies any cheaper in late June when many places first put them out? How do you know what size uniform your kid will need in a year? They might have a growth sport during this coming school year. You might have to buy a new uniform in January.

[pezDispenser]

245. Its not rocket science

1st graders are going to need crayons next year and the years after that. The supply lists don't change that much.

Clothes are a bit different granted, my kids is a size 7 now. At some point he's going to need to wear a size 8 - maybe that's in December, but more than likely its going to be next August when school starts back up. The point is, at some point in the future he'll need a size 8 shirt and we'll have picked it up for cheap.

This works for other things that we buy as well. Once you get into the habit of stocking up on things at low cost, it gets pretty easy to manage.

[happy_liberal]

247. crayons and clothes are one thing, kleenex, soap, ziplocs...that's absurd!

First of all, poor people are expected to bring items that they can't afford for home use? How many poor people have a box of ziplocs for just putting a book in, or some papers....no one would waste money like that!

And that hand Gel, there is something not quite right about that. Who owns that company?
I seriously doubt poor people use that crap at home. It's called a bar of soap and water. It doesn't really take all that long to wash your hands. They've got 7th and 8th graders using that crap too? Because they don't have time to wash their hands? Give me a freaking break.

Who benefits? Ziploc, kleenex, hand gel makers and microsoft because if they can get all the parents to pay for the basics, that is more money freed up to give to their campaign donors in the form of federal "grants" to the schools for their pet projects and payback.

How much money goes to Neil Bush cashing in on 'no child left behind'


Why does everyone follow along with this bullshit?

Stop following orders and start asking questions!!

The teachers do not have the time to police where education dollars are going, so the parents are going to have to start paying attention.

Public schools are being ruined by design. Bill Gates for instance, has been sucking up education dollars for years, now he is using the money to push for charters where I guess he plans to make even more money from our education dollars. It a win win for him. W puts in no child left behind, Neil Bush rakes in a fortune, then Obama uses it to attack public schools in the effort to move everything private where the corporations can be in direct control of federal education $$ not to mention complete control over what children are learning.