So this Mosque is being built on Ground Zero?

[kratos12]

Next door to it?

Adjacent to it?

A few blocks away?

How far is away from Ground Zero will this community center....errrr I mean muslim extremist traing camp being built?

I'm guessing that the wingnuts would call it the ground zero mosque if it was built anywhere in the tristate area.

[Xipe Totec]

1. It's not a Mosque nt

[snagglepuss]

6. That is disingenuous given that mosques are community and cultural

centers as well as places of worship.


snip

"Throughout the history of Islam, the mosque has always played an important social role. It has been a place of prayer, a centre of political and social activities, an educational institution, and the focal point of communal life. In Muslim countries, the mosque serves various functions depending on the political and social environment.

The mosque combines religious and social activities that encourage active faith and strong community life. Because Islam preaches unity of the spiritual and the worldly aspects of life, community gatherings and mosque-related activities include both social and spiritual elements. Friday-noon prayer, at the mosque, is the most important socio-religious activity of the community."

http://www.halifaxmasjid.com/


snip

In the West mosques are integral parts of Islamic centers that also contain teaching and community facilities.


http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/2748/

[Xipe Totec]

7. Disengenious?

Whatever,

:eyes:

[snagglepuss]

8. LOL. Yes disingenuous. What a laugh. You should familiarize yourself with a dictionary.

definition

Disingenuous (adj) - Assuming a pose of naivete to make a point or for deception.


http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/disingenuous

[Xipe Totec]

9. Did I say I didn't know what disingenuous meant?

or are you just being disingenuous?

:rofl:

[snagglepuss]

11. Your having misspelled it, one can only assume. Also I notice that

you didn't address the fact that a mosque isn't simply a place of worship so that it is not out of line to refer to Cordoba House as a mosque.

[Xipe Totec]

13. Speaking of mispellings..

torefer is not a word.

thow seest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye?

[kratos12]

14. I'm not feelin you bro

What are you trying to say regarding the community center.

[Xipe Totec]

17. That it is stupid to oppose it.

Because that makes it a Christian target.

It says to the world: We are a Christian only nation. Muslims are not welcome.

[MajorChode]

38. That is correct

However, just because someone calls it a mosque (which is what it's been called by everyone involved in the project at one point or another) doesn't mean they are opposed to it. It's just being realistic. The lead developer of the project called it a mosque just about a week ago. Numerous prominent Muslim groups are also calling it a mosque. The Imam and his wife recently started calling it a Muslim "YMCA" to deflect some of the criticism, which is understandable, but I don't know too many YMCAs that can accommodate 2,000 people for prayer on the sabbath. Certainly it will be a community center as well, but it's not unusual at all for large churches, synagogues, and mosques to have amenities like a gym, classrooms, and other facilities that cater to the communities' needs. It's not as if they only open their doors on the sabbath and the building is unused for the rest of the week.

[snagglepuss]

16. Bwahahahah. You are just digging your hole deeper.

http://www.yourdictionary.com/misspell

[Xipe Totec]

18. So now torefer is a word, according to you?

Yea, buddy, whatever.

Step away from the keyboard before you hurt yourself.

:eyes:

[snagglepuss]

21. Clutching at straws are we? Why not address the fact that it is not off-base

to refer to Cordoba House as a moque?

[NutmegYankee]

22. Quoting the worst translation of the Bible doesn't help your cause. nt

[snagglepuss]

24. This is more fun than the Onion. "thow" lololol. nt

[TheBigotBasher]

39. No - map here

and a post I based a DU diary on is here

http://thebigotbasher.wordpress.com/2010/08/15/what-have-the-muslims-ever-done-for-america/#comment-1253

[snagglepuss]

47. Perhaps you could expand on that no.

The map doesn't help since the Burlington building was damaged by plane (debris that fell through the roof), the only reason no one was killed is that people in the building were in the basement. Given that fact it is not unreasonable to say it is part of GZ.

Also, as I've noted below, the term GZ is used in this context to indicate close proximity to WTC towers so its quibbling to say it is not exactly GZ.

[Raineyb]

55. It's two blocks away from the site. A tenth of a mile away. THAT makes it not part of ground zero.

It's not quibbling to say it's not ground zero it's the fucking truth.

[snagglepuss]

57. It sustained damage and it is quibbling because the issue isn't that

it is going to be built on the exact ruins but in close proximity.

This really would never have become such an issue if the mosque wasn't spun as gesture peace and goodwill. It is hypocritical to spin one's actions as such but then proceed in a fashion that doesn't consult the community it is supposedly reaching out to.

Even at this point in the game, after so much divisiveness and ill-will has been stirred up, proponents of the mosque (a mosque unlike other mosques in that it is to be for the whole community in order to heal it) should step back, not because they have to, or that they don't have a right to proceed, but because stepping back would be the gesture one who is trying to heal a community would take.

[dogday]

2. 2 City blocks away and in an old department store that was not

affected by the events of 9/11. You tell me? :shrug:

[kratos12]

3. Those Repukes are masters at "branding" ain't they?

First time I heard this story I suspected that it was bullshit.

Yet the corpomedia all are calling this a "Mosque" and not only that the "ground zero mosque".

[dogday]

5. The media has run with this. If they would just report the freaking

truth and put this to bed... But they like the ratings it brings.

[Karenina]

40. We need to REJECT the M$M frame.

Just a humble suggestion here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8952319

[Xipe Totec]

19. Was it there on 9/11?

You tell me.

[dogday]

25. I think it was. But the more important fact is that it is not being built

on ground zero and that is what everyone is cutting a washer off their ass about. Building a Mosque at ground zero. What constitutes ground zero? The entire city of New York?

This is the media building hype where there is none to generate ratings.

[Tesha]

34. Anywhere in Tribeca would have been "close enough" for the Republican propaganda masters. (NT)

[aquart]

30. Part of a plane landed on the roof rendering the building unusable.

It was the original Sym's Clothing Store but was a functioning Burlington Coat Factory on 9/11 and never again.

[dogday]

42. thanks for the facts, I always like to reveal them whenever possible.

I don't mind what they want and where they want it. I think the location if revealed correctly would also surprise many as they believe it is directly on "ground zero".

[wtmusic]

4. Building the center on ground zero would have been a terrific statement.

It would say no matter how we're attacked, our dedication to religious freedom is unshakeable. That we're above blaming one criminal act on a religion.

Unfortunately, we're not.

[Xipe Totec]

20. +1

You read me and understood me precisely.

I'm not the best at making a point, so getting it speaks volumes about your capacity to understand others.


:applause:

[aquart]

31. Yep. We lie down to be walked on.

What does that remind me of? Oh right. Congress.

[saltpoint]

48. I doubt if they'd consider moving Congress to the

Ground Zero site.

That sounds like a lot of huffing big desks and stuff into Uhauls.

More trouble than it's worth.

[Bluebear]

10. They are building it exactly on the spot where W stood with his megaphone

At least that is how some idiots must imagine it.

[dogday]

12. With his arm around that old retired volunteer fireman.. What an

image, What an inspiration. What a crock of crap... Yes, that is how some would see this...

[Bluebear]

15. What a nauseating photo-op that was. nt

[SOS]

23. "We won. Next is Ground Zero."

These extremists have only one agenda:
To prevent Muslims from the free exercise of their religion.

Unless Staten Island is "sacred ground" too?

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/07/22/2010-07-22_staten_island_catholic_church_board_blocks_sale_of_old_convent_building_for_musl.html

[aquart]

26. Since they have the right, would you be okay with it on the site of the twin towers?

Since you're asking about location. Are you fine with a mosque where Borders Books was?

[uppityperson]

27. I forget, is this a strawman or a red herring? I think a strawman.

I can NEVER keep those 2 straight.

[aquart]

33. So you would be happy to see the mosque built there?

As would I, if they bought that property. It would be nice to see the Saudis pay for something related to 9/11.

So you would be overjoyed to see a Saudi mosque on Ground Zero? Good for you.

[Xipe Totec]

37. I would. Absolutely

The first amendment right to freedom of religion is not limited to synagogues.

[uppityperson]

53. Thank you for clarifying that it is a strawman. eom

[RetroLounge]

28. Most thinking people could give a crap

There's a mosque INSIDE the pentagon. You got a problem with that? It was also "ground zero" after all.

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/08/05/muslims_infiltrate_pentagon

RL

[uppityperson]

29. are you fine with the mosque INSIDE the pentagon, which was attacked?

[aquart]

32. We have many Muslim soldiers in our armies.

I hope there is also a shrine for Wicca.

[uppityperson]

54. are you fine with the mosque INSIDE the pentagon, which was attacked?

Thursday comes after Wednesday.

[aquart]

56. I would be so interested to see the architectural drawings.

Are they online? How did they incorporate it into the five-sided Pentagon? Does it get a whole side? A window? Did they include it when the Pentagon was rebuilt? Did they also include space for the other religions represented by our military?

Now me, I would have no problem with representing the Muslims who were murdered ON the WTC site along with mention of the many other faiths whose members left their dust in every crevice of downtown. There is going to be a ridiculously expensive tribute and it would be an outrage if they were not included.

Are you making sure they ARE included? Have you checked?

[uppityperson]

58. 2-fer. Non-answer+strawman. Congratulations. You win this ginsu knife!

[Tesha]

35. A mosque can be built anywhere a church or synagogue can be constructed.

Frankly, I'd rather none of them be built anywhere,
but as long as we'll tolerate Christian churches and
Jewish synagogues, we'd damned well better tolerate
mosques (and you know it).

Tesha

[Xipe Totec]

36. I'm fine wherever they want to build it

Is that okay with you?

Or is your belief in the first amendment limited to certain religions?

[Forkboy]

45. You really hate Muslims. You never miss a chance to prove it.

If the topic is about Jewish people and Muslims, you're there with your hate. If it's this community center, you're there with your hate. DU should shitcan your racist ass.

[saltpoint]

46. There are book shops all over the place in New York City,

and most of them are wonderful places.

I don't see any reason on earth why there cannot also be community centers all over New York, no matter whether they are Islamic Centers or some Catholic charity organization, or a Jewish Youth Group, and so forth.

In fact, the more book shops and community centers there are, the stronger the democracy might be, is one way to look at it.

[saltpoint]

41. A Community Center, some two blocks away.

There is an 8-year old and a 12-year old and a 15-year old somewhere in NYC or thereabouts whose parents will take them to this Center when it is completed, where they will be placed in a very validating atmosphere, in the path of instruction, and community, and identity-building,which IMO is their right under the Constitution of this country, the President saying as much the other day.

The meltdown on this is a GOP ice cream cone. The flavor is called "Coarse Racism, with xenophobic sprinkles."

[blaze]

43. There is an 8-year old...

"There is an 8-year old and a 12-year old and a 15-year old somewhere in NYC or thereabouts whose parents will take them to this Center when it is completed, where they will be placed in a very validating atmosphere, in the path of instruction, and community, and identity-building,which IMO is their right under the Constitution of this country, the President saying as much the other day."

Most compassionate post of the day!!

tyvm!

[saltpoint]

44. Hey blaze...

hello, and thanks, but let me just say I loved this in your profile:

- - -

If you can walk, you can dance.
If you can talk, you can sing."

- - -

--and I loved it a lot.

If that is a saying in Zimbabwe, then it sounds to me like they're doin' it just right.

:hi:

[DonCoquixote]

49. It's too bad

That the "Freedom Tower" design won out, because not only it is ugly, but it replaces some good designs. One of which had a non denominational "chapel" that was at the zenith, connecting two twin towers. It would have driven home that there is something BEYOND POLITICS.

[saltpoint]

50. Agree. The new architecture, IMO, is pedestrian by

comparison with some of the earlier designs, and in fact some of those other contenders were remarkable.

'Beyond Politics' is exactly right.

:thumbsup:

[DonCoquixote]

51. I understand Leibiskind has a pedigree

But his design still sucks.

[saltpoint]

52. Yes. It's flat-spirited. I was thinking that he is

capable of a far greater vision but perhaps was instructed to keep it Hallmark-like and tame.

It's a lost opportunity.