••• More nuts headed to the Senate - Angle, Rand Paul and now Fiorina widens lead over Boxer •••

[breadandwine]

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Election-2010/Senate/2010/0816/Carly-Fiorina-widens-lead-over-Barbara-Boxer-All-about-jobs




Reid is neck and neck with Sharon Angle and when you factor in the zealotry of Angle's followers determined to vote she wins.

Rand Paul is ahead.

And now Carly Fiorina widens her lead over Boxer, 47% to 42%. Boxer is about to get crushed.


Article says it's all about jobs. If only we threw people out of work and cut the deficit the economy would go up!!!!!!!


This is all because we are led by "Bozo the spokesman" Gibbs and nice-little-boy Tim Kaine who don't know Jack SH*T about how to fight.

As Harry Truman said, "If you run a Republican against a Republican, the Republican will win every time."


As Alan Grayson said, the White House has Stockholm syndrome and has learned to love its captors, the GOP.

Hey. If ya can't beat 'em join 'em. When in Rome do as the Romans do. Let's all whistle in the graveyard. That'll work.



I think we had all better prepare ourselves for "the day after." I haven't a clue what to do after the GOP takes over Capitol Hill and begins impeachment proceedings. How about you?

[Skittles]

1. what I cannot understand is

how anyone could think that repukes will create jobs in America

[mrcheerful]

2. I been saying that since 1979

[RKP5637]

8. I've been wondering the same. People just love to vote in politicians that will screw them

to the wall. I'm beginning to think the US is a nation of masochists. How they think the R's will improve conditions is beyond me. Frankly the ignorance of this county is not only appalling it's frightening. I've never seen a nation trying so hard to bring itself down. Who needs enemies when we've got ourselves. The R's solution will be to go start a few more wars and profit up the MIC. Maybe we have soooo many crazies in this country anymore the crazy politicians do well.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. I'll answer both of your questions

How many people in an off year election? forty percent when we are lucky.

Of those how many of them really start paying attention oh six weeks before the election? Most.

So it is not about party, but how well you craft your message, as well as anger (right now) at the dems, since they see jobs at risk and people are angry over TARP (Republican policy made into a democratic policy)... the Stimulus, far from enough, and I could go on.

If people paid attention more than the little they do... PERHAPS they'd be more rational about it from your POV. In reality they think they are rational, but they are being pushed by pure emotion.

Does that help?

<--------- having to prepare a poli sci class that I might teach in the fall forced me to look at this with a LOT LESS passion.

[RKP5637]

20. Yes, very helpful as always! Thanks!

:)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

52. Right, besides which, by not challenging Bush legacy policies such as

TARP, Afghanistan, and violations of civil liberties, the Obama administration came to OWN them in the eyes of the public.

It's not fair, but it's how things work.

[Gaedel]

54. Fair?

Obama bought Afghanistan fair and square during the campaign by touting it as the "right war" neglected by Bush in favor of his "wrong war" in Iraq.

Civil liberties he bought by not explicitly reversing the policies when he took office.

TARP you can make a case he was saddled with it (as well as the downturn).

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. The mushy public is far less tied to the parties than people realize

hell our parties in the US are weak and diverse, and we have parties in 51 states...

Reality is that they identify those policies with the guy in charge not the party.

[eleny]

3. They're going to need a lot of people to unpave all those roads

[Canuckistanian]

Bush had EIGHT YEARS to create job growth

His result? ZERO net job rate increase.

And this new crop of idiots? Have THEY got any ideas?

No. All they want to do is scapegoat workers, unions and the unemployed.

What will it take for the general population to realize that Republicans aren't their friends?

[bluestateguy]

4. You are not going to convince me that Fiorina leads Boxer

You can cook up whatever poll you want, but it is not going to happen.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. I will vote for boxer

but people in this state are a little nuts.

Also it don't help how a few groups in the base are now under the buss and all but enthused.

[Dr.Phool]

37. California is sane compared to Florida.

We probably have the most corrupt legislature in the country, and these people will vote the repukes right back in. And it's gotten so bad, they don't even try to hide it a little anymore. They act like it's just business as usual.

And the Dems are so incompetent that they couldn't get elected in a race without an opponent. They've run off all the good workers an talented people.

[depakid]

9. We agree on that..

Not going to happen.

Reid on the other hand...

[Hawaii Hiker]

47. Maybe I'm the eternal optimist, but i cannot see Boxer or Reid losing

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2010/senate/ca/california_senate_boxer_vs_fiorina-1094.html

Paul is a different story as Kentucky is a really red state....Nevada isn't California blue, but Angle is absolutely insane...She belongs in a mental ward...

[lunatica]

50. Fiorina's millions against Boxer's thousands

Fiorina and Whitman are on a super sized spending spree. Of course they'll make a dent in the first few months. Then, hopefully, unless we have more teabaggers in California than we're willing to admit, Boxer's base will come out in force.

Frankly I can't imagine Fiorina beating Boxer. If she does then I give up on Americans.

[cascadiance]

65. Anyone else also notice that Rethugs are avoiding debates more now? Citizens United effects?

Heck you even have the Democratic House candidate Lutz in San Diego running against Duncan Hunter, Jr. going on a hunger strike to force him in to a debate!

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/sdcounty/article_ed6f742a-b910-5ecb-b0fb-dda0446cbaba.html

I think Jerry Brown was having a lot of trouble earlier trying to get Meg Whitman in to a debate with her that she didn't "control".

Kitzhaber here in Oregon is having trouble getting Chris Dudley to debate. And these are just races I know about.

It seems that its more logical for Rethugs to avoid debates if they already can finance their campaigns more heavily and use corporate financing more heavily with the after effects of Citizens United to avoid having to debate, when these Rethugs, especially the wealthy ones like Fiorina and Whitman, can swamp the airwaves with their propaganda instead.

It would be good if someone could do a study to compare how many races have Rethugs avoiding debates now around the country and compare it to other past elections.

Perhaps we need to find a way to force this issue more (kind of like the way Lutz is doing in San Diego with his theatrics) as a way of evening the playing field.

Certainly the corporate media seem to avoid looking at this, and are probably motivated to consciously do so as well, not just accidentally do so.

[arbusto_baboso]

60. I also call bullshit on that one.

Not even the rabid repukes in my area are voting for Fiorina.

[Skip Intro]

70. That's the only poll she leads in. Check it out:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2010/senate/ca/california_senate_boxer_vs_fiorina-1094.html

[otohara]

73. Thanks For Posting - My Heart Can Stop Racing

now.
If California elects that woman, the end must is near.

[MannyGoldstein]

5. The DLC must be in charge again

The DLC took over our Party in 1992, and we promptly lost both houses of Congress.

Dean took over in 2002, we promptly got both houses back.

Now the DLC has taken over again.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Correct

and that love letter from Gibbs the other day is part of that pattern.

[asdjrocky]

12. There you go, talking sense. nt

[RKP5637]

14. Yeah, the DLC does such a great job... If we got back to what democrats were

once about the democrats would do quite well. This is sheer nonsense now IMO. What is called for now is the old democratic party, the party for the people, not the corporate party.

[caledesi]

38. I like Howard Dean. nt

[villager]

41. +1

n/t

[asdjrocky]

10. Maybe it's time to toss the New Dems-

And find some old ones.

[RKP5637]

15. EXACTLY!!!!!!

[mmonk]

17. +1

[Catherina]

64. +1 n/t

[RandomThoughts]

13. Why would I have less then no beer?

But seriously, I think the democrats can do ok and succeed, but also a person has to keep some balance in there thoughts of what they can do to get that to happen.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

16. It's obvious that we Dems are not getting the message over?

It looks like no one is at home in the DNC?

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Actually I don't think they want to receive the message

why it is so damn garbled.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

22. are they at the beach still?

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. That explains it

they shot their radio!

:-)

[dflprincess]

18. Gibbs is only the spokesperson

don't blame the messenger for the words that have been put in his mouth.

[Dawson Leery]

21. Not seeing Boxer losing to Carly Fiorina of all people.

This is going to be a close election.

[breadandwine]

23. Boxer is going to lose. Believe in the tooth fairy if you want to.

...

[still_one]

26. I just read the article, and the sampling size and margin of error

It is as good as a flip of a coin.

I won't hold reliability in that poll

[still_one]

25. EXCUSE ME, that is a SurveyUSA poll of 602 likely voters with a 4.1% margin

of error

This is a bullshit poll

That doesn't mean it won't be tough, but it sure doesn't necessarily reflect what is going to be

[sakabatou]

29. That's too small a pool

602? Are you kidding me?

[still_one]

31. That margin of error is 4.1%, that says everything. If it lights a fire under progressives

to get out and vote then that is good, but to just present a poll as a done deal is demoralizing and inaccurate

[earthside]

27. Very sorry to say ...

... we have a President with no vision and a Congress with no guts.

The sad truth is that the liberal/progressive base is so discouraged and unmotivated right now that the odds are increasing that the Repuglicans will take both houses of Congress.

So, the polls may still actually show Democrats doing better (even while they are behind) than they will in November because a critical percentage of the base will just stay home.

The discontent I hear coming out of the mouths of my Democratic and progressive colleagues is becoming palpable. I think that will mean that the less than zealous or routine Democratic voters may just not feel the urgency to cast a ballot this fall.

I am increasingly pessimistic as I see Obama do things like the nuance on the mosque issue; when I see Reid be his usual spineless self; when I see corporate Democrats win primaries (Colorado, Arkansas); when I think of the Shirley Sherrod embarrassment; so on and so forth ... we all know the many areas of disappointment.

[still_one]

30. Obama didn't "nuance" on the mosque, however, it is unfortunately clear that

the country as a whole has become more intolerant, as the polls indicate most do not believe the "mosque" should be located there, even though most of these wonder brains do NOT realize that the center is NOT a ground zero, that there is an existing Mosque within the same vicinity

The media has done a magnificent job of misinformation, and hate, and the population has become less concerned with critical thinking than ever before

As for your assessment that the progressives are becoming disillusioned, I have no doubt, but that is not the reason we will do badly in November.

The country, and its media have become much more conservative, that is the unfortunate sad truth.

They don't want to realize that the financial catastrophe, was started by the reagan, helped by some Democrats, but mostly republicans, from the S&L crisis, to total lack of regulation
They don't want to realize that the invasion of Iraq, based on a lie helped contribute to the caos

The Democrats could campaign on preserving the Constitution, whether is is the Mosque, proposition 8, or the Arizona law. All are civil rights and Constitutional issues, and all are issues that the republican party has opening said they support the violation of people's civil rights, and religious freedom

Though I suspect the economy is in most people's minds, these issues are being thrown by the republican party. Yes, they are a diversion, but they also speak of a philosophy of a party that supports bigotry and hatred. If the Democratic party does not stand up to these thugs on these issues, then they deserve to lose, because the question is, as you indicated, what do they stand for?

[JCMach1]

83. But it was partiularly tone deaf (i.e. the administration)

The Islamic Center, ultimately, is a local issue. Agree, or disagree it will be resolved there... And frankly, it seemed to be moving forward.

I was a rather big mistake to insert the bully pulpit in this situation.

It is the equivalent of trading Mosque tweets with Sarah Palin.

[global1]

28. The Day After - Everyone On DU Will Be United Again Against The Repugs.........

if they take over Capitol Hill. We will have a rallying point again like we did during the 8 years of BushCo.

You would have thought winning the WH in 08 would have satisfied everyone here at DU - but instead - starting with the 2yr run-up to the 08 election - we've had nothing but dissension here at DU - initially between the Hillary vs Obama factions and then - after he won - all the displeasure with Obama Administration not doing things fast enough or good enough for all here at DU.

We've argued with ourselves here and in the process let the Repugs have their way with us - because we've ignored them and fought each other.

So if - and it's a big if IMHO - the Repugs take over Capitol Hill in November - we'll get what we wanted - a rallying point to bring this board back together and united against a common cause. We'll have something real to 'bitch' about - instead of all these stupid controversy's like Gibbs comments; Muslim Mosques; trips to Spain; beer meetings on the WH lawn; etc - that turn Dem against Dem here on this board.

Maybe - everybody will be happy then. (sarcasm)

We will have gotten what we deserve.

[stevenleser]

34. I disagree. There will be a full on blamefest.

And since Obama will still be President and will then have to contend with a Repug congress, there will be zero chance of him passing any legislation that will make his critics here happy. The hatefest here will continue unabated until the Repugs win back the White House in 2012.

[still_one]

35. I think they were trying to make a point that things could get worse /nt

[Dawson Leery]

36. With all of their flaws

the Democrats give us something, the Rethugs give us nothing.

[stevenleser]

32. Yup, I've got a plan

#1 - I am entitled to dual German citizenship. Part #1 of plan is get the paperwork started to get a German passport and citizenship papers. Once I have that, I am a citizen of the EU and can freely move and locate myself anywhere in Western Europe.

#2 - Buy an open plane ticket to Paris

#3 - Start a business with some friends in France (already in progress actually).

At that point, I'll adopt a wait and see approach. If things get as terrible with the GOP taking control of the congress as I think they might, or if the Repugs win the Presidency in 2012 and then things look ugly, I am on the next plane and instantly I will have the benefits of the entire progressive agenda.

I've seen all I need to see for the past ten years. The GOP wants to destroy the country and the Democratic base will fracture into opposing sides whenever we get power effectively neutering ourselves. No thanks. One go around of that is enough for me.

[stevenleser]

33. Dupe Sorry

[Lorien]

39. It was Will Rogers who said " Given the choice between a Republican and a Democrat

who acts like one, the people will choose the Republican every time." That's the problem here; those who embrace the most extreme elements of their base are pulling ahead, while those who embrace the OPPOSITION'S base are falling behind.

[bigbaddan]

40. Carly made millions eliminating jobs.

How stupid can voters be?

[cascadiance]

77. And HP's stock price dropped a lot whie she was CEO too!

Yep! How stupid can they be!

Well, if by some chance Fiorina can beat Boxer, then I vote that Boxer go after Feinstein and primary her in the next election for the other seat. Then California could go back to having one progressive senator representing it within two years. Though I'm guessing Boxer won't do that without a lot of pushing her to do so, if she'd do it at all.

[lonestarnot]

42. I do not believe you, but I do agree run a pug against a pug and you'll get a pug loser every time.

[Vinca]

43. I am thankful my husband is a Canadian.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. The Republicants Aren't Going To Impeach Pres. Obama

Ironically, losing both house of Congress can be a boon for Obama. It will give him something to run against in 012. He will have his foil. However if the economy doesn't improve that will not be enough.

[HughBeaumont]

45. Begins impeachment proceedings?

Errrrrrrrrr . . . . for what reason? They sort of have to have a legitimate cause/scandal.

[Gaedel]

55. Impeachment

Impeachable crimes are what the House says they are.

The GOP learned their lesson in 1998.

Do not impeach unless you have lined up the votes ahead of time in the Senate.

If you don't get two-thirds in the Senate, the President is "vindicated".

[truebrit71]

69. Are you suggesting that any part of Whitewater was legitimate? Not remotely.

n/t

[HughBeaumont]

78. I don't think ANYthing the Pukes tried to pin on Clinton was legit.

All mountains out of molehills . . . not even in the area of criminal. YET: the assholes could at least associate them with Whitewater/Arkansas/Foster, however microscopic the connection.

The problem here is that Obama's pretty much a boy scout. No affairs. No bad business. Nada. Too busy cleaning up a giant Republican shitmess. What're they going to do, dig up Bill Ayers again? The real estate crap? The Birth Certificate? Anything they've tried to already pin on him has resulted in absolute failure at best and downright ridicule at worst.

They'd be laughed the hell out of proceedings. It's why the whole thing is silly to begin with.

[Capitalocracy]

74. Why?

It's just a vote.

Of course, it won't actually go anywhere, but they'll almost certainly do it anyway if they have the votes.

And if they were willing to throw Bush/Cheney under the bus for their war crimes, they could have Obama in jail. I doubt they'd go that far, but there's very little honor among these thieves. You never know.

[BootinUp]

46. Its a damn shame the left can't get its shit together

and beat these bozos. We'd rather play circular firing squad I guess.

[Tesha]

80. It's your team leader who's shouting "Ready, aim, ..."

Keep telling the Left how awful we are.

Just keep doing it.

See what it gets you in 2010 and 2012.

Tesha

[Le Taz Hot]

48. Polls are unreliable this far out.

The REAL campaigning will begin after Labor Day. Boxer, however, DESPERATELY needs to get her buttsky out and campaign in ALL of California -- including the Central Valley which has, believe it or not, supplied her with significant support. She needs all the friends she can get. As tragic as last night's ruling was in California (staying Marriage for All), it HAS managed to fire up the progressives all over again which should carry Boxer over for a squeak-by win.

[breadandwine]

49. "Polls are unreliable this far out" is one of those generic excuses when losing.

....

[Binka]

51. Wow What A Little Miss Sunshine You Are

Wanna bet that Boxer does not lose? Oh sorry, I won't be able to communicate with IGNORE. Bye. :hi:

[glitch]

53. Bookmark this thread.

If Boxer goes into the election under-polling Fiorina her base will turn out, if only for her and Brown.

[suffragette]

67. Boxer should do an ad similar to the one Cantwell did against

McGavick. It was very powerful.

Unfortunately I can't find the video of the ad, but it was pitch perfect about why trying to run government just like a business does not work.

This article describes part of it.
http://www.theolympian.com/2006/10/20/v-print/46425_cantwell-mcgavick-sling-barbs.html


Cantwell, McGavick sling barbs on Safeco and Social Security
MATTHEW DALY



WASHINGTON - It was one of the best lines in this week's Senate debate.

"Do you want to send somebody to Washington who is willing to cut thousands of employees off his payroll and take a cash bonus as a reward for that?" Sen. Maria Cantwell asked, referring to Republican challenger Mike McGavick.

As chief executive of Safeco Corp., McGavick laid off 1,700 people as he worked to return the insurance company to profitability. He received a bonus of $28 million when he left Safeco earlier this year.

Now Cantwell, the Democratic incumbent seeking a second Senate term from Washington, is repeating the attack in a new TV ad. "What's good for Mike is bad for the people of Washington," the ad says.

[glitch]

72. Good idea. I think I'll forward this to her email, couldn't hurt.

I think coming out strong on saving Social Security from appeasers is a winner.

edit: sent it to Jerry Brown as well. Thanks!

[suffragette]

81. Good deal!

Wish I could find a video of the ad itself.
It was powerful.

Hopefully someone on her staff could find it.

It would be very effective to use Fiorina's record to show why running social programs, which is part of government, like cut-throat businesses doesn't work.

You can't lay off kids from school and great-grandma from Social Security, then collect a bonus.

[4_TN_TITANS]

56. We see this time and time again...

I remember in 2000 thinking why in the world would anyone vote against 8 more years of peace and prosperity? U.S. elections are rigged just enough to not be noticed by most people, but notice how the rich continue to rule our government.

Fiorina leads Boxer - puhleez.... This is just a setup to make an actual win by her look plausible.

[breadandwine]

57. You could be right.

Also, all the astroturf rage on the right gives plausibility to explanations about why the GOP won.


"The hackers - I mean the voters - were angry!"

[AlinPA]

58. Toomey leads Specter in PA now, but is early.

[KamaAina]

62. Not Specter, Sestak

Specter was humiliated in his own (?) primary.

[AlinPA]

79. That's a big oops for me, I voted for Sestak and donated! Getting old.

[B Calm]

61. The 2010 Republican Platform: Tax cuts for the rich, raise Social Security

retirement age to 70, do away with unemployment insurance, drill baby drill. . .

[KamaAina]

63. Well, to be fair, Fiorina does have a solid, proven track record of job creation

ask just about anyone you meet in Bangalore. :eyes:

[B Calm]

66. Ha Ha , So True....

[Skip Intro]

68. Boxer will win CA. All polls except SUSA have her ahead, going back to last year.

"Widens" lead means SUSA polling only, and then, "widens" means from -2 to -5. All other polls, all of them, have Boxer ahead, though many by slim margins.

Here, look:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2010/senate/ca/california_senate_boxer_vs_fiorina-1094.html

[truebrit71]

71. No way Fiorina beats Boxer. Feinstein is a different story...Reid will beat Batshit crazy lady..

..but Rand Paul will win in Kenfucky..

[Capitalocracy]

75. Don't worry. Now that Reid's against the mosque...

he's got it on lockdown. All those Angle voters will come running. He's going to get at least 90% of the vote. Genius.

[Skip Intro]

76. Reid has made a bit of a recovery. He's ahead now. Look at the trend.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2010/senate/nv/nevada_senate_angle_vs_reid-1517.html#polls

[breadandwine]

82. Thanks but those numbers are not very encouraging.

Angle's supporters are much more energized to go vote. They're ready to show up at the polling places like the peasants with pitchforks that they are.


In that sense Angle is still ahead.

[Warren DeMontague]

84. "Boxer is about to get crushed." --- Bullshit. It's the middle of August.

Please, donate to her campaign, because it probably will be close. But no way is BB going to get "Crushed". She's a fighter, an ass-kicker, a name-taker, one of our Strongest Senators. Give her a little more credit, please.

Oh, and when was the last time California elected an extremist anti-choicer like Fiorina to a Statewide office, hmmmm?