Really? Well, not surprised. Now the "Big Dog" is telling us to stop our "belly-aching"

[Roland99]

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2010/08/16/bts.clinton.meek.voter.anger.cnn?hpt=C2


W T F are we supposed to, Bill? When the party keeps shifting to the right, bending over backwards to appease the right, shipping jobs overseas (it was YOU who signed NAFTA), corporations given more control, gays being marginalized (it was YOU who signed the Defense of Marriage Act), environmental policy being given lip service, banks being given carte blanche to make as much money as possible without worrying about risk (yes, it was YOU who signed the Gramm-Leech-Bliley Act)


And we're just supposed to stfu and take it??


I. Don't. Think. So!


Excuse the hell outta me for not only wanting a liberal agenda but for EXPECTING those who promise a liberal/progressive agenda to actually follow through with it!!


I can think of only three politicians in ALL of Washington that are worth a plugged nickel: Dennis Kucinich, Al Franken, and Alan Grayson. But those three voices of progressive policy are lost amidst those speaking with corporate dollars drowning out all others.


Sick of our country being sold to the highest bidder and the people of this great nation forced to lap up whatever scraps trickle down from up high.


Sick of it.


So, Bill (and anyone at the DCCC or DSCC) who wants ANY campaign contribution or volunteer work from me DAMNED WELL better want to EARN it!!

[nashville_brook]

1. damn right.

[leftofcool]

2. + 1 trillion

[steve2470]

3. k&r nt

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Roland99]

5. And hearing that Dr. Dean's 50-State strategy was given the heave-ho?

ugh.



*sigh*

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

7. Browbeating and insulting people is not an argument. But thanks anyway. n/t

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[atreides1]

14. I listened

He was right about the Republicans fucking up the economy and pandering to the special interests, and that some better things have happened under him and Obama. That does not make him "absolutely right".

But you know what Obama and he could have done better!

[BootinUp]

9. What does HE know about politics anyways?

The lefty ideologues have a much better record of getting shit done. lol.

[Fumesucker]

11. He got shit done all right..

DADT, welfare deform, NAFTA..

Those are three winners right there.. And we're still paying the price.

[BootinUp]

16. faulting one man

even a former President for all these problems will get us no where. There was a Congress and a whole bunch of Americans that share the blame.

[Roland99]

18. A *Republican* Congress that sent those bills that Clinton signed, himself.

I mean, look at all those bills the Dems sent to Bush to stop the war, to curtail war spending, to repeal the ill-advised tax cuts, to stop the Medicare Part D fiasco, to repeal the "PATRIOT" Act, to force the closure of Gitmo, to impeach Bush/Cheney on grounds of war crimes/torture.





oh wait......

[Fumesucker]

19. You had no problem *crediting* one man..

Why the complaint when I simply play the opposite card?

[BootinUp]

24. If I gave the impression that

he deserved all the credit for the good things it was not intentional.

[Jax]

29. Great post

you nailed Jim4Wes. Different name same right wing corporate posts.

[BootinUp]

107. It doesn't take much to impress you, does it? nt

[Poboy]

20. He led the charge!

NAFTA was a con and Bill Clinton was the head CON MAN.

[BootinUp]

22. Clinton modified NAFTA

as it was a policy/bill inherited from Bush I. Your facts are just fucking wrong. Without his modifications it would have been worse. With a Republican President all the things you all are bitching about would have been worse. Clinton kept us in the game and held off even worse shit.

[Roland99]

23. yeah...like way worse

micro view

Ford Mulling $9 Billion Plant Investment In Mexico: Report
http://www.manufacturing.net/Ford_Mexico.aspx?menuid=248

Ford To Invest $2.65 Billion in Brazil, Argentina by 2015
http://www.insideline.com/ford/ford-to-invest-2-65-billion-in-brazil-argentina-by-2015.html


macro view

The high price of 'free' trade
NAFTA's failure has cost the United States jobs across the nation
http://www.epi.org/publications/entry/briefingpapers_bp147/

[BootinUp]

25. You have had 8 years of Bush

8 years where no one was doing anything about US manufacturing losses. And now I guess you are basically saying another term of Poppy and a term or 2 of Dole would have been just fine? Is that your argument?

You know some lessons are not learned without experience. America arguably had to go through the Reagan revolution and learn again the lessons from the early 20th century. We have an opportunity to reverse some of the shit from the last 30 years. Lets not blow it by arguing over who was to blame.

[Roland99]

31. No. My "argument" is as I wrote in the OP.

I'm sick of this country being sold out to corporate interests from BOTH parties!

Just because the Democrats do it more subtly while handing us some scraps to keep us from literally dying in harsh economic times doesn't make them some group of saviors looking out for Americans' best interests. The DLC types have moved the party to the right that it now looks a helluva lot like the Republican party of 50-60 years ago.

Where the hell are the liberals who will fight for their principles?!?!

[neverforget]

85. Asking Democrats to be Democrats these days riles up the DLC types.

[Better Believe It]

75. Wall Street could not pass NAFTA with a Republican President. They needed Clinton.

[Mimosa]

80. True. I remember that so clearly.

Clinton worked HARD to sell NAFTA which was fought by what remained of the unions. If not for Clinton NAFTA would not have passed.

[Bozita]

90. +1 ... Bullseye! ... Just ask folks from the Rust Belt.

NAFTA was economic suicide for a lot of cities/towns outside the Rust Belt too.

[Citizen Worker]

116. Clinton didn't modify one syllable of NAFTA. Like all of the trade agreements

NAFTA, WTO, CAFTA it is straight up or down vote, no amendments are allowed. And Clinton rammed it through congress.

[truebrit71]

35. ..and what, he lost the 'veto' stamp? They held a gun to his head and MADE him sign?

Gimme a break..

[BootinUp]

38. Where were your heroes, mr./mrs. ideologue?

Its easy to blame the ones who tried when you or your hero didn't. Trying means being willing to make hard choices to win elections and get bills passed. Bills that do not meet your ridiculous purity tests.

[truebrit71]

42. I don't have purity tests save one. Precisely whom benefits from the legislation.

Unless it is "we the people" it should be shit-canned.

I like Bill Clinton, right up to the point he stopped being a Democrat...and Obama has repeated the same mistake..

[Roland99]

43. +1

"we the people"


that's all that should matter. Corporations are NOT people!

[Better Believe It]

76. Mistake? What mistake? It's what they do.

[Lost4words]

103. yea that was it, NOT!

[laughingliberal]

86. So, that's your position? He didn't do it alone? Clinton campaigned heavily for NAFTA.

Clinton actively worked for the passage of NAFTA. It didn't pass by a veto proof majority. NAFTA and the Gramm-Leach-Bliley act are Clinton's contribution to the current state of the working and middle classes. After 12 years of disastrous Republican economic policies, we had hoped we would be going another direction when Clinton took office. He started off well with his 1993 recovery program but he screwed us with NAFTA and Gramm-Leach-Bliley. His Treasury Secretary actively lobbied Congress to get these bills passed and he is, sadly, influencing our current president.

[BootinUp]

104. It was part of the 92 dem primary race and the general election

America still wooed by reaganomics, essentially voted on this issue and decided by picking Clinton over Brown and Perot that it should be ratified. And the House and Senate agreed. Get over the past. I am NOT saying it was all good or even mostly good or that Clinton wasn't on the wrong side, most of the country was on the wrong side GET IT?????????

[laughingliberal]

115. We still suffer the effects of this past. People whose jobs are gone forever and who can't

get work now are not easily going to 'get over it.' I voted for Clinton. It didn't mean I agreed with NAFTA. That was not the only issue in the campaign. At any rate, since his disastrous policy of NAFTA and his pushing of Gramm-Leach-Bliley bear a lot of responsibility for the misery many of us are living in now, he doesn't need to be telling us to quit our belly aching. He isn't worried about losing a house or having enough to eat.

[BootinUp]

117. Hes worried about November

as more of the netroots should be. Grievances are important, so is timing and strategy. At any rate I grow weary of this discussion.

[laughingliberal]

122. Their problems in November are due to too many people still in dire circumstances.

The way to ensure wins in the midterms would have been to work more for more policies that helped them. I certainly hope the majorities in the House and Senate can hold but it is not the fault of the people whose lives have been ruined or those talking about more needing to be done that we are in such dismal shape going in. Bullying the netroots and 'professional left' is not going to get people whose #1 concern is jobs to vote for them.

[BootinUp]

124. You seem to be saying

that division in the ranks has nothing to do with the ranks. In other words, leaders calling for unity are just wasting their breath. Maybe thats true, but either way we lose. We never had the strength to pass the perfect legislation and therfore we can't get stronger. Its a chicken or the egg dilemna.

[laughingliberal]

131. I noticed when President Obama has really fought for something, he usually got it.

When he first came into office he had the confidence of most of the American people. Except for the extreme right. Even people who did not vote for him were willing to give him a chance. Even in this very red area of NV in which I live, I had life long Republicans saying to me, "Well, what we're doing isn't working. We should see what he can do."

They chose to push this biapartisan thing and got watered down, ineffective stimulus. We were always going to be up against it if we couldn't show real progress on the unemployment problem come the midterms. Fighting for jobs' programs and such would have been the smart thing to do. Even if they had not been able to pass them, it would have left us able to blast the obstructionists for blocking help for the American people.

It's amazing to me that all the calls I see for 'party unit' involve the left shutting up and signing on for more of the move to the right that is producing policies which are minimally effective at best and harmful at worst.

What would be wrong with saying, "We've tried to work out solutions with Republicans and found they are not interested in finding solutions for the people. We've rejected all sorts of traditional Democratic ideas in this effort. We believe we now need to move ahead and forge some policy to get relief to the average American and if the Republicans wish to obstruct, they will need to explain to the American people why they are opposed to good jobs and good wages for our people." Then send Rahm over to beat on the New Democrats and Blue Dogs to 'play nice' with the progressives.

The left is in a Catch 22 with this. If we point out where current right of center governing isn't working, then we're the goats who are threatening the election. If we capitulate for the sake of party unity, then they decide the left is fine with all this right of center policy and continue on not changing anything.

[BootinUp]

132. I appreciate the thoughtful response

From my point of view they pretty much did / are doing what you describe though. The country was already shellshocked by the size of the tarp bailout. As soon as the stimulus price tag got aired/floated, it created a backlash and started getting ratcheted down by Senate pressure. If I recall the House passed one version at a little over a trillion dollars.

If you are saying the Administration should have played ball harder, that is a reasonable position, doesn't mean it would have gotten through the Senate any bigger. This is the part of the process we don't see, conversations/fights between the WH and the legislators where neither side necessarily wants everyone to hear all that is said.

I do understand the frustation, believe me.

[Statistical]

113. Um he signed them into law.

Sometimes the buck DOES stop here.

Had he voted them and Republicans (who had nowhere near enough votes) overrode the veto then your argument would make sense.

[femrap]

41. The lines

between the 2 parties merge into one big one.....

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-purpose-behind-engineered-economic-collapse

This is quite enlightening. Long but very much a big hunk of Truth.

[Roland99]

46. Great piece. Many thanks for posting that!

2. Yes, international banks triggered the meltdown, but the “greed of Capitalism” is truly to blame (i.e. Its all the Republican Party’s fault)…

First off, if you’re parroting the fiscal debate points of two dimensional socialist gatekeepers like Michael Moore, then you’re already hopelessly lost in the mind warping hedge maze of the false left/right paradigm. You should stay as far away as possible from adult conversions on economics, especially if you plan on associating the “greed” of capitalism and corporatism with the Republican Party alone.

News Flash! Barack Obama received far more in corporate campaign donations (including donations from BP and Exxon) than McCain did. Both Bush Jr. and Obama increased government spending to record levels meaning Neo-Conservatives are in no way “conservative” (as a true Republican is supposed to be). Obama has consistently surrounded himself with banksters and corporate lobbyists, including various hobgoblins from the bowels of Goldman Sachs. BOTH major parties are owned and operated by global banks. This is a cold hard undeniable truth of our political system. There is no way around it. Learn it, accept it as reality, and stop trying to blame one side or the other for problems that both sides created! If you cannot do this, your view of our cultural state of affairs will always be horribly skewed and your insights on our social problems will be utterly worthless.

[femrap]

51. I thought it was a great

piece as well....I forwarded to some friends who are in denial and feel betrayed. I think this helped them a bit. The Truth hurts....at first, but eventually it feels so right.

[Mimosa]

79. Fumesucker, can i ride with you?

You said it. I remember the 'selling out' of the 1990s.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

99. Exactly.

[rurallib]

109. never forget the telecommunications act of 1996

[EFerrari]

13. Whatever he knew about politics, he seems to have forgotten

if his performance during Hillary's campaign is any indication. I hope Meeks gets something out of that appearance.

[bigtree]

10. what did he actually say?

It would have been nice to have that included along with your rant (my dial-up doesn't play videos)

[Roland99]

17. Highlights at this horribly titled article

Bill Clinton boosts Kendrick Meek, encourages Democrats
http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/palm/blog/2010/08/bill_clinton_boost_kendrick_me.html

[LaurenG]

44. “If you’re a Democrat, you need to hold your head up." Doesn't sound bad to me.

“If you’re a Democrat, you need to hold your head up. I’m tired of reading about how we’re all bellyaching,” Clinton said.

“I know a lot of people are mad, and a lot of people are frustrated,” he said.
Is that article different from the other link.

[Roland99]

48. Not real encouraging when he equates our genuine grievances to "belly-aching"

That's just pompous bullshit he's spewing there.

[ipaint]

12. I believe that is what he told welfare recipients as he stripped them of much needed benefits.

Unions and workers when they protested nafta and folks that fought against the deregulation of the financial industry.

"Quit your bellyaching."

Funny how that's worked out.

welfare reform- massive fail
nafta- even larger fail
deregualtion of the banks- lol.

[Recursion]

26. That wasn't what he said

He said, basically, "Manufacturing jobs are going to keep disappearing from the USA, and there's nothing I can do about it, and any other candidate who says he can do something about that is lying. What I can do is push for a trade agreement that will let you afford to live on the lower-paying job you're going to have to take."

[ipaint]

28. He actually said this:

"Many Americans are still worried that this agreement will
move jobs south of the border because they've seen jobs move south of
the border and because they know that there are still great
differences in the wage rates. There have been 19 serious economic
studies of NAFTA by liberals and conservatives alike; 18 of them have
concluded that there will be no job loss.

...And so there are differences. But if you strip away the
differences, it is clear that most of the people that oppose this pact
are rooted in the fears and insecurities that are legitimately
gripping the great American middle class. It is no use to deny that
these fears and insecurities exist. It is no use denying that many of
our people have lost in the battle for change. But it is a great
mistake to think that NAFTA will make it worse. Every single solitary
thing you hear people talk about that they're worried about can happen
whether this trade agreement passes or not, and most of them will be
made worse if it fails. And I can tell you it will be better if it
passes."

In other words- Quit your bellyaching.

[Recursion]

32. He said a lot of things, and your "in other words" is a horrible summary

Unless you're holding on to the fantasy that without NAFTA the erosion of our manufacturing base would not have continued.

The question isn't "how can a powerful, rich country prevent its economic decline?" but "how should it handle its inevitable economic decline?"

[Greyhound]

34. So, when confronted with the quote, it doesn't count any more...

And I bet you wonder why these parasites don't care what you say.
:eyes:

[Recursion]

45. Right, that's Clinton's *ONLY* quote about NAFTA

:eyes:

And the summary wasn't even close to what Clinton said in that one cherry-picked quote.

[bvar22]

47. Ross Perot had the only quote about NAFTA...

...that history has proven correct:

(If NAFTA is passed) "there will be a Giant Sucking Sound going south" (American jobs).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rkgx1C_S6ls

[midnight]

72. Yes, I remember this man was dead set against nafta.

[Greyhound]

133. Which still evades the point.

Clinton facilitated the continued destruction of the nation and its citizens in order to create and cater to billionaires, and thereby get his 'E' ticket to sit at the Big Table (with people that hate his "white trash" guts).

[ipaint]

37. Clinton was never about protecting workers. The last 20 years of wage stagnation

and an unprecedented transfer of wealth from the working class to the owners is not the result of preparing people for the "inevitable". Throwing the american worker into the global economy to compete with workers making pennies to the dollar with no protections is not preparing workers for the "inevitable".
What a bunch of horseshit.

Clinton assumed that economic globalization was inevitable. He also believed in the classical theory of free trade: Lower tariffs would result in lower prices, greater exports, and a stronger economy. "it's so wonderful when an economic theory turns out to be right," his Treasury Secretary, Lawrence Summers, would later crow; "The economic benefits of the tariff reductions we negotiated during the Clinton administration represents the largest tax cut in the history of the world."
Source: The Natural, by Joe Klein, p. 79 Feb 11, 2003

http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/Bill_Clinton_Free_Trade.htm


It's all just so wonderful!

[Mimosa]

81. WOW, IPAINT! I'm going to copy that.

What you posted is what the politicos in BOTH PARTIES have been telling us.

[KoKo]

130. Clinton says: ""It is no use denying that many of our people have lost in the battle for change. "

...And so there are differences. But if you strip away the
differences, it is clear that most of the people that oppose this pact
are rooted in the fears and insecurities that are legitimately
gripping the great American middle class. It is no use to deny that
these fears and insecurities exist. It is no use denying that many of
our people have lost in the battle for change. But it is a great
mistake to think that NAFTA will make it worse. Every single solitary
thing you hear people talk about that they're worried about can happen
whether this trade agreement passes or not, and most of them will be
made worse if it fails. And I can tell you it will be better if it
passes."

------

Well, there it is right there. Clinton talks about "this battle for change." :eyes: Now we get the REAL "change you can believe in." And, Clinton said this early in his first term.... Think of what we've been through as a country since then.

[Jax]

30. Bullshit, that is EXACTLY what he said..

he can shut his lying face.

[TheKentuckian]

53. Don't forget most favored status China, a real winner

[Roland99]

67. Gave them permanent status, no less. Paved the way for their entry into the WTO which resulted in...

Costly Trade With China: Millions of U.S. jobs displaced with net job loss in every state
http://www.epi.org/publications/entry/bp188/

[karynnj]

15. Couldn't he accomplish this by finding a way to energize the left

by praising what they did in 2006 and 2008 - and arguing that we are nowhere near completing what we need to do - so he needs us to get out their and do what we do to get people elected?

This would IMPLICITLY deal with his perception of "bellyaching" - but rather than angering the people he is trying to get to act differently, it might excite them. That's what the 1992 Bill might have done - here he sounds cranky.

[Raineyb]

58. You assume he WANTS to energize the left. He pretty much behaved the way

Obama is behaving vis a vis the left.

:shrug:

[OHdem10]

21. Since Will Marshall considers us less than necessary, why is

Bill even bothering.

[formercia]

27. Billy has his Nut

Now we should be good little Serfs and know our place.

Poppy taught him well.

[OwnedByFerrets]

33. You left out Bernie Sanders. Otherwise, K and R

[Cleita]

36. Add Bernie Sanders to your politicians worth a plugged

nickel. He has followed a progressive Social Democrat platform and agenda before the three you mention did. As far as the DNC, DCCC or DSCC, they aren't getting any money from me anymore. I contribute directly to the candidates I favor. This way I know whom I'm supporting.

[bobbolink]

39. Yeah, Bill, we got it when you pushed the abolition of welfare.

We knew then that you just wanted us out of the way so you rich people could have more.

Fuck. That. Shit!

[asdjrocky]

40. Didn't like him then and I sure as hell don't like him now. nt

[xultar]

49. Basically Y'all wanted Obama y'all got him. Quit belly aching is what he is saying.

I agree actually

[Roland99]

50. I didn't. I didn't like his pro-AIPAC, pro-Afghanistan stances nor

did I like his health care reform plan.

[LoZoccolo]

57. I agree too, even if few people in this thread do.

[liquid diamond]

68. Now the big dawg is calling out the fringe left.

There is a Spanish proverb that goes something like "If three people say you're an ass, put on a bridle". Who will be the next big dem to slap down the malcontents?

[Art_from_Ark]

84. So what do you do

if three asses call you an ass?

[Roland99]

108. Yeah, we're malcontents alright

:eyes:

Upset at the corporate whores taking over the liberal Democratic Party.

It doesn't bother you in the least bit? Not at all??


Denial...it ain't just a river in Egypt.

[earth mom]

52. So Bill's throwing the left under the bus too? No surprise here.

Disgust, but no surprise. :puke:

[OhioChick]

54. K&R n/t

[LoZoccolo]

55. Well, what else would you be doing if you didn't have this to complain about?

[KamaAina]

56. ...people falling through the cracks in the social safety net

(yes, it was YOU who signed off on welfare reform*)

and so on ad nauseam.

[FormerDittoHead]

59. Next time they call me for money, I should tell them to "stop their belly-aching".. n/t

I'll vote Dem for the rest of my life, but if you want my MONEY, you guys at the DLC have to do better...

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. I did

young volunteer was shocked.

I also told him to remove me from their money grubbing calls... I will give to INDIVIDUAL candidates, but the party... not so much.

[tblue37]

60. Rep. Anthony Weiner! nt

[Pisces]

61. Oh, the new meme on DU is that Bill Clinton is a quasi- Republican. What a bunch of morons.

[The_Casual_Observer]

87. Sadly this is nothing new. But, was taken to the next level during

the 2008 primaries. Clinton takes the blame around here for every god damn progressive-adverse sea change that was in the works since Nixon. At the time all the shit that he is accused of "doing" had been in the works & essentially settled by globally long before he set foot in the Whitehouse. Could
he have singlehandedly changed the course of world events? Considering the endless distractions & flack provided by newt & co, it's very doubtful.

[elleng]

62. Who invented the DLC, after all? No surprises here.

[Roland99]

63. This says it all right here....

From the wiki

The DLC gave strong support for the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Prior to the war, Will Marshall co-signed a letter to President Bush from the Project for the New American Century endorsing military action against Saddam Hussein. During the 2004 Primary campaign the DLC attacked Presidential candidate Howard Dean as an out-of-touch liberal because of Dean's anti-war stance. The DLC dismissed other critics of the Iraq invasion such as filmmaker Michael Moore as members of the "loony left"<12>. Even as domestic support for the Iraq War plummeted in 2004 and 2005, Marshall called upon Democrats to balance their criticism of Bush's handling of the Iraq War with praise for the President's achievements and cautioned "Democrats need to be choosier about the political company they keep, distancing themselves from the pacifist and anti-American fringe

and Harold Ford is the current chairman? 'nuff said.

:puke:

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SnoopDog]

66. President Clinton: enacted NAFTA and Telecommunications act...

He was the one who paved the way for our jobs to go overseas and to allow the mass propaganda machine to destroy the American mind...

[lib2DaBone]

69. Eggs actly. Mr. Clinton signed NAFTA... Gave us the SHAFTA...

.. and turned over every radio and TV station in America to the GOP. Just 'sayin...

[Demeter]

70. Sherrod Brown, Too

At last report he was a sane man....

[McCamy Taylor]

71. Who promised a progressive agenda? Kucinich? We all saw how that turned out.

The voters chose one of the two corporate Democrats. Too late to give him back.

[flyarm]

73. actually the democrats didn't have the choice of two candidates..two states lost their votes!

or I should say , had them stolen!

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Raster]

77. Ouch! That one's gonna leave a mark!

:kick:

[Liquorice]

78. Thanks for the vid. I love Bill Clinton. I don't care what anyone says. I think he's great! :-) nt

[hulka38]

82. What a dick. n/t

[Overseas]

83. And I'm having too many flashbacks.

To the last time we didn't get national health security.

To the last time Democrats tried to be more corporate friendly and sent all our jobs overseas.

And cut welfare in response to right wing PR-- letting the abusive 5% cut the benefits needed by the other 95%.

Looked hard for the good things we'd gotten and trumpeted those and encouraged one another to hang in there because the Republicans were so much worse and our president was under relentless attack.

Flashbacks.

I'd hoped very serious Truth & Reconciliation hearings would have motivated our nation to recognize that millions of voters crossed over to the Party of FDR because they knew we needed very thorough change and rebalancing of our economic system. They could feel the plutocracy and voted for change, but my Democrats coddled and courted the team that had crashed our country-- morally and economically.

Could we please really move forward instead of back to that "New Democrat" malarkey that was really old even when it was introduced back in the 90's?

[laughingliberal]

88. Yes. Our bellies ache. They ache with stress & hunger after losing everything.

Thanks for asking, Bill. How's things with you?

[LaPera]

89. ALL of them are DLC corporate assholes who hate liberals

they want to make the democratic party into the fucking corporate moderate party - I'd rather stop them or fucking die rather than give in.!

[defendandprotect]

91. "You can only really be betrayed by those closest to you--" that's an old saying ....

Used to be clear who the enemy was --

Corporate $$ buys a lot of friends --

[FunMe]

92. I have a photo of me with Clinton that I hide in SHAME

So sad that OUR Democratic Party has been taken over by CORPORATE WHORES. It is our job to take back our party and weasel out those SELL-OUTS who are using our party to steal our country's riches.

The DLC sucks. And people like Clinton will have political blood in their hands for doing so much harm to our country. Obama is continuing the same path.

It is OUR job to fight back. Trust me, at the end, WE WILL WIN and take our country back from the CONservative $$$ whores who have infiltrated our party and are causing harm to so many Americans. They will not succeed for long (KARMA).

The DEMOCRATS who are left to fight for our party are us. Fight back! We will win back our party.

[BEZERKO]

93. Fire the COS,

and I'll stop bellyaching!

[Cobalt-60]

94. I liked Bill as president

As ex president his nose is too far up the B*sh ass for my taste.

[peace frog]

96. Second that, and

add in his statements/behavior during the 2008 election season in *support* of Hillary (argh). My opinion of both Clintons took a nosedive.

[DeSwiss]

95. K&R

Booze, rage and justice in the participation age

It is now clear to me that the people's rage is a tool in the hands of the new electronic and digital corporate state. Its various channels, eddies and pools, regardless of type, can be directed toward all sorts of mischief and profit. Left or right, the angry throngs on both sides can be managed and directed. They can be sent chasing various injustices, denouncing evil characters on Wall Street, Times Square bombers, BP executives, or whatever, worked up into slobbering outrage over Sarah Palin, and thus kept divided and working against each other for the benefit of last gasp capitalism.

~ http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2010/07/waltzing.html">Joe Bageant, "Blogging toward the Kingdom"

[bkozumplik]

97. go away Bill

Go do some good in Haiti to redeem yourself.

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[greenman3610]

100. yeah because we all know

there's not a damn bit of difference between George Bush and Al Gore.

[INdemo]

114. Oh now ..wait a minute here

Do you actually believe that ..No difference between Al Gore and Bush?..I think you got that a little turned around there..I think you meant to say there is "not a damn bit of difference between Obama and Bush"
But there is a difference ..Obama gives great speech.

[Canuckistanian]

101. Was he wagging his finger?

I'll bet he was.

[Vinca]

102. Rec! Rec! Rec! He's part of the reason the country's in this mess.

I was furious when I heard I was supposed to STFU . . . again.

[nc4bo]

105. I guess he's forgotten that part Vinca. We shall not STFU. nt

[w4rma]

106. I voted for Obama because I wanted his wife defeated for what he did.

And I'm pretty sure that there are *a lot* of other people just like me. Jerk. The DLC needs to be PURGED from the Democratic Party, now.

[OnyxCollie]

110. Who you gonna believe, Bill Clinton or your lying eyes?

It was YOUR fault that the Telecommunication Deregulation Act went into effect. YOU signed it.

It was YOUR fault that the Commodity Futures Modernization Act went into effect. YOU signed it.

What about NAFTA, Bill? Was someone else responsible for that?

When I read that you want us to stop bellyaching (Did you get that from Phil "Nation of Whiners" Gramm?), I remembered this admonishment from you as well:

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/911_protester_arrested_after_yelling_at_0303.html

"9/11 was not an inside job, it was an Osama Bin Laden job," Clinton said at a campaign event in Denver.

"We look like idiots, folks, denying that the people who murdered our fellow citizens didn't when they are continuing to murder people all around the world," he added. "So we heard from you, you go away."

I can see why you want the bellyachers to go away; Things are going well for you and you don't want them fucking it up.

[Javaman]

111. It appears as if our voice matters, otherwise they wouldn't be going to

such lengths to marginalize us.

Ah yes, pissing off a section of the Democrats support is such a winning plan.

We progressives have big mouths and that is scaring the shit out of the centrists.

[BonnieJW]

112. Don't forget Bernie Sanders!

He never stops fighting for us.

[ooglymoogly]

118. You know, there is a wise old saying that applies here;

I know many of you may have never heard it before;

Fuck you!....BC, For all the crap you pulled on us in the amorphous contraption, the Dino cloaking device; Pugs with a D after their names;

High marks for a Dino;
On the scale of bad to absolutely and demonstrably crazy.

The Difference?
You are a flat out corporatist who knows exactly what he is doing;

A plan for a new world order;
A new order in which you, and O I might add, have each wheedled your way into the top of the food chain;
The ruling class; Politely calling itself "the third way" yet nothing more than corporatist oligarchy.

The pugs on the other hand are just "Religious" nuts; Corporate trained monkeys, lunatics and suckups; Too easily led by the nose to do your bidding; To easily led to the cliffs with the simple flute of a treasonous piper;

They are lunatics of the third kind, who are only comfortable in a chaos that hides just how crazy they are; For whom the only thing safe to say, as they cannot chew gum and walk at the same time; The only trick they know that will not ruffle the feathers is of their masters; The ruling class.

The better trick the masters will applaud;

Walking backward while saying no;

They will under no circumstances compromise this applause and a pat on the head to reinforce their delusion that they are Napoleons in a conversation with God;

Those are the folks you are better than;
And what an accomplishment that is.

For that flim flam, this cheap hat trick, you expect us to stfu;

No my slick Willy friend; As far as I, a proud progressive am concerned;
It is you who need stfu.

And let us get on with reclaiming our, sacrosanct, constitution, democratic principles and our country, now so desperately in need of us.

[myrna minx]

119. K&R n/t

[Liberation Angel]

120. Bill Clinton was the Bush's candidate.

Do just a smidgeon of research on Arkansas, the Stephens Group, (Club for Growth which ran the volvo yuppie ads against Gore and Kerry and which group got their financing for Bush from the Bin Ladens and Sauids as well as for Clinton), and the Mena Airport stories.

Clinton protected Bush's and Oliver North's ops in Arkansas when he was governor. The state police had to be controlled to keep them from intruding on the Mena airport arms for the contras and cocaine and weapons smuggling - the profits from which were going through Nwetanyahu to the Iranians for , in part, the October Surpirise deal.

Bush 41 was too much of a moron to win so they needed Clinton to keep the coverups going (don't look back - look ahead sound familiar?)

Clinton is BFEE and probably his wino too.

Cheers

It's only history. Don't be afraid of it.

(Plus NEVER gorget that Clinton gave the White house to Dubya in part by f*cking over the Gore campaign and ttally undermining the true Dems anbd Gore with his idiocy and self aggrandizement and greed.

The Big Dog is working for the bad guys.

[whathehell]

121. The "Big Dog" can take a Big Poop in Central Park, for all I care! n/t

[NorthCarolina]

123. In short, YOU will ACCEPT the DLC AGENDA, and YOU WILL LIKE IT! Now sit down and STFU. eom

[wryter2000]

125. I wonder

First Gibbs, now this. I wonder if this means they're feeling some heat. IMHO, this is a good thing. They may be telling us to shut up, but maybe they're starting to realize that people aren't going to shut up and they have to do something to fix this country.

[pgodbold]

126. + + + Dennis Kucinich, Al Franken, and Alan Grayson + + +

[Major Hogwash]

127. Bubba should go back and play more golf with Bush so he wouldn't be near a mike

I'm really tired of hearing from him.
Really tired of it.

Really, I am.

I remember how he told us to quit criticizing George Dubya before the Iraq War.
I couldn't believe it.

So, I'm tired of hearing from him.
Really, I am.

[Laelth]

128. Righteous rant! k&r n/t

-Laelth

[SOS]

129. There is no "third way" in a two party system

We learned that in the 1990s.