Should we "get over" 9/11?

[LostinVA]

Get your finger off the alert button, I'm not saying we should. But, someone in a thread said this, and commented on how other countries have endured much worse and moved on. Remembered, but moved on, which isn't the same as "getting over it," but moving on is what the other poster meant.

I wrote something about Virginia Tech today, and how the Feds and NYC should emulate VT: "I also want to laud Tech on what it has done with Norris Hall. It's an example the US Government and NYC should emulate: The west wing of Norris Hall was closed after the shooting, although the rest of the building was open to students and faculty. On April 10, 2009, it was reopened, and is now the Center for Peace Studies and Violence Prevention. It was not left a closed, moldering hulk. It wasn't turned into some hands-off sacred site. Instead, the students, faculty, staff, and administration of VT refused to let the killer win and steal a part of their campus and their community forever. They ultimately won by advocating life and peace where death and terror had invaded."

So, how SHOULD we continue to think of 9/11 almost nine years on? Should we build the peace park, remember and never forget the dead and the shock of that day, but "return" that part of Manhattan to the community? Is it ghoulish to treat it as "scared ground"? Should the Feds buy up as much land as they can in the area and declare it a National Park? Of course, they have built condos at Chancellorsville, and a Wal-Mart may eb going up at The Wilderness, so I guess being an NO means little.

Thoughts?

on edit: No matter what you personally think, I do think it is appalling that nine years later, all we have is a gaping hole in the ground.

[valerief]

1. I think the govt should deliver a BIG jobs bill OR make the banks loosen up

their credit so Americans can get JOBS.

You know, the important stuff.

[NoNothing]

2. A simple memorial should suffice

Some kind of monument, maybe something resembling the two towers, with a small park and a plaque describing what happened. No more than 1000 square meters. The rest of the land should be developed.

I mean, really. We used to know how to handle these things. It's something important to remember, not dwell upon, so erect a monument and a little park and move on.

[LostinVA]

16. It was also used to forward a certain political agenda

Which i think may be part of people having trouble "letting go."

[SoCalDem]

22. I always thought a waterfront park, with a small memorial would have been perfect

Rebuilding mega-buildings in the footprint seems irrational to me, especially with the economic downturn. Many of the businesses that were housed at WTC have "moved on", and are probably quite happy where they are, and may not be eager to move back (it will probably cost a LOT more too).

[dflprincess]

54. Currently, if you're visiting New York, forget visiting the Trade Center site and go to

St. Paul's Chapel. You can see the WTC site from there (it's maybe a block away) but I found it far more moving than the construction area.

They've kept up the flyers families posted looking for people missing from the towers and cots rescue workers used and tey collect donations to help pay the responders health bills. It is more of a memorial than "ground zero".

http://www.trinitywallstreet.org/congregation/spc/

Opened in 1766, St. Paul's Chapel is Manhattan's oldest public building in continuous use - a place where George Washington worshiped and 9/11 recovery workers received round-the-clock care. Part of the Episcopal Parish of Trinity Church, St. Paul's is a center for worship and the arts, a community of reconciliation, and a place of pilgrimage for all people.

[no_hypocrisy]

3. IMO, can't relinquish it to history until we absolutely know what happened.

Meaning the role of our government in the whole scheme of things.

[LostinVA]

14. Interesting POV

No snark, serious.

[PufPuf23]

52. I agree. k&r

The F-16s were on ready alert for Obama today (and that golfer years ago).

We have been lied to, by who and how much needs to be settled to move forward.

[Xithras]

4. The WTC site is not "a gaping hole in the ground"

Building construction rarely makes the headlines, but the basements and frame for the bottom 30 stories of the new WTC One are already up. The entire site has already been brought up to ground level and is no longer a pit, and the two memorial "footprints" are nearing completion.

Here is a shot of the site from a nearby tower, taken last month. You can see the framing for the new WTC One in the background, and the memorials in the foreground.

[drmeow]

17. Is there any way

you can reduce the size of that picture?

[HCE SuiGeneris]

27. Here you go...

[drmeow]

41. Thanks! n/t

[Xithras]

37. Sorry, it was a Wikimedia picture

I linked to the source without realizing how big it was. Next time I'll preview!

[foxfeet]

5. It's mass grief, with parallels to individual grieving.

You never "get over it," especially if the loss was sudden, unexpected and horrific, but you do eventually get better. I see little evidence that we are getting better. When we do, there will be less flailing and knee-jerk condemnations of Islam itself. Some are clinging to grief, equating "getting better" with forgetting the lost and/or disrespecting the dead. It takes time to heal, but first we have to want to get better. Otherwise we remain mired in paralysis, blaming and inability to focus on other urgent issues.

[drmeow]

15. It is more than mass grief

9-11 violated American's complacency. It violated our notion that the US is sacred ground - that not only can it not happen here but that is shouldn't happen here, that somehow the US should be immune to and exempt from bombings and other violent attacks simply because it is the US. It made a mockery of our super-power status ... it was sort of akin to someone whacking the biggest class bully with a 2 x 4 from behind. It confronted us with our own vulnerability which scared the s**t out of an already scared population. And since when it happened we had a bully in the White House, we reacted the way a bully would react.

[foxfeet]

26. No argument here.

Grief aside, it was a tremendous shock to many that this could happen here. Never mind Oklahoma City, 9/11 was perpetrated by foreigners, from whom the oceans are supposed to protect us.

[Karenina]

33. HALLO!

Great analysis. The sad thing is what this tempest in a teapot is showing to TROTW is that your bullying ways are FAR from behind you.

[drmeow]

42. Thank you

America will get my bill in the mail :)

Some of us would like our bullying ways to be behind us. Unfortunately I fear that it will take a major ass-kicking by the rest of the world for that to happen. I hope I'm wrong but our history is not good.

[LostinVA]

18. I think a memorial done relatively quickly would have helped

What do you think? I don't mean within six months or anything, but maybe within a few years.

[foxfeet]

25. I agree. Sooner would have been better.

Even though it may have left some of the survivors or survivng families unsatisfied. A tricky mess, that.

[TransitJohn]

6. Yes.

As well as the rampant American military fetish.

[obxhead]

7. I think the reaction to 9/11 and what we have done for the site

says quite a bit about America and it's politics.

First, we claim to care so much for the families and loved ones lost on 9/11. What we actually do is not give a flying fuck about them. If we cared we would have a memorial. If we cared the first responders, clean up crews, and their families would get some meaningful help. If we cared about what was lost that day we would find a way to get back to it. Our actions since that day clearly point out that in reality we don't give a fuck.

Second, our reaction to the 9/11 attack was a typical American one. Strike back and strike back hard. While that might be effective when you are fighting a nation that has real physical borders with a real physical leader somewhere it will never work for terrorism. It was an small group with no central location that attacked. The only thing our quick reaction strike back did was create 1000's of terrorists. If another country came here, bombed your home, killed your family, destroyed your livelihood, and just generally completely ruined your life how would you react? Flowers and parades or a hate that runs so deep you might go so far as to kill yourself taking as many of those bastards that did this to you with you. You do not fight hate from a small extremist group by doing things to make it bigger.

In the end these 2 wars will have created an entire generation that have been born into and know of nothing but war. They have watched as their neighborhoods have gone from bad to destroyed and their friends and families have died endlessly. The really sad part is from day one we have always said victory will require winning the hearts and minds of those we fight while at the same time ignoring that exact meme and just continuing the killing.

If remembering 9/11 brings us to these places maybe it is time to move on.

[drmeow]

11. Well said n/t

[LostinVA]

20. Very, very good post

Very thoughtful and intelligent. Thanks!

[obxhead]

44. Thank you

Usually I'm just a snide asshole, but it's how I see our post 9/11 world and the US reaction.

[Starry Messenger]

35. good post too.

k & r

[Orsino]

8. When they say "sacred ground," they just mean they don't want you to stop hating and fearing.

They want that hate and fear as far beyond questioning as anything we actually hold sacred. They mean that their bigotry is holy bigotry, the kind that Jayzus would want us to keep close to our hearts.

Put up a gooddamned plaque, or build a nice monument, but don't claim a mystical aura that repels Muslims within a two-mile radius. Don't try to own land you never gave a fuck about before the mass murder.

I'll go ahead and say it: get over it. Live with whatever horrible memories and burdens you have--don't hide from them, or demand that anyone else bow to them. Don't try to make your pain what it's not, and by whatever you do hold sacred, please don't play along with the rich assholes who want to use your fear for profit.

[pipi_k]

9. I don't know if "get over it" is exactly right...

since we all grieve at our own pace, over different things.


But I do think people should stop using 9/11 to justify everything that happens or doesn't happen.

[LostinVA]

21. I think that is a big part of it

I agree.

[snooper2]

10. Not until the truthy comes out

The dungeon has been working too hard for too many years to give up now... :evilgrin:

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. Perhaps we have moved on, but since the wars continue we feel guilty

about moving on.

Think about it - when was the last time you nervously looked up at hearing a plane flying overhead?

[jaxx]

13. I like what VT did by not letting the horror overcome the campus.

No one will ever forget the shock and horror of 911, but we can also not let it become what defines us as a country. That the footprint of the WTC site be kept as a reminder is good, they can't dictate our ability to recover. A memorial site there is needed. That the blocks all around the site are rebuilt as the vibrant, diverse communities of NYC is a given. As it was, it shall be.

[LostinVA]

23. Exactly -- great post!

I love this:

"That the blocks all around the site are rebuilt as the vibrant, diverse communities of NYC is a given. As it was, it shall be."

Just like how students still go to class in Norris Hall, professors still have offices, laughter and voices echo down the hallways, but there is also a reminder of those who were killed and hope for what can happen.

[global1]

19. How Did We Move On From Pearl Harbor?..........nt

[Warren DeMontague]

24. To Quote Wally Schirra on the Apollo One fire:

"You're sad. You mourn the loss. But you don't wear the black armband forever."

I think, if we were half the forward-thinking people we once were, we would turn that land into high-tech, energy efficient high rises that combine on-site vertical urban farming with solar power generation. And a high speed rail terminal to boot.

But, unfortunately, we're still farting around with giant flashlights.

[earth mom]

28. We should NEVER EVER forget 9/11. People died there because of * & Co-MIHOP LIHOP

and that spot should be treated as a burial ground with nothing built upon it.

A park and memorial-yes. Another building for the banksters to profit from-HELL NO!

Never Forget 9/11!

[frebrd]

29. This country loves to wallow......

and won't give up an opportunity to do so, endlessly.

Something to do with the prevailing childish mentality of the population.

[Stinky The Clown]

30. I applaud what you say and I agree with you.

I also gave this a rec.

[LaurenG]

31. "Get your finger off the alert button"

K&R & :rofl:

[LostinVA]

34. I just knew some people would read the subject line and freak out!

[slackmaster]

32. I'm not over Pearl Harbor yet

:nuke:

[Recursion]

36. I'm not sure why so much of the US felt "under" 9/11

I worked about half a mile from the Pentagon and my apartment smelled like smoke for weeks (and I still get annoyed when people talk about the attack being in "Washington DC". There's a damn river there, folks, and that's where DC stops.) Two people who lived on my block died at the Pentagon. Why do people from Arizona and Oklahoma feel such "ownership" of that or of the carnage in NYC?

[Milo_Bloom]

38. Yes.

If not being "over it" means complete ignorance and intolerance then yes, we need to get over it.

[geek tragedy]

39. This was maybe a debate for 2002.

Not only have plans been finalized, but also construction has begun on the WTC site.

[LostinVA]

40. That has nothing to do with my OP, nor the "Mosque Meme"

It's not about the memorial, or true lack of one, even though that's discussed in this thread. It's about letting go of the WTC site and letting it be part of the community instead of separate from it. Most of the people who were killed that day were part of that community. The "Mosque Meme" shows this isn't so for everyone.

[Initech]

43. We had a tragedy in Anaheim last year.

When Nick Adenhart and two friends were killed in a car crash. The Angels had two memorials set up for him throughout the year. But they took both of them down after the end of the season. Because that's what you do after tragedies: move on. That's what we need to do with 9/11. Move on.

[LostinVA]

48. Right, you don't forget, but you move forward

[JustAnotherGen]

45. It's more difficult for some than others

I lost a good friend from University on 9/11. To this day - we've had two worthless and unnecessary wars - and have not managed to give his family, me, his other friends, his wife he left behind, and the 10 year old little boy that never knew his father . . . Bin Laden's head on a platter.

BTW - this is a guy whose answer to any bar fight or scuffle, "Dude! Dude! Relax! Have a rolling rock. Be casual man. Have a beer!"

He wouldn't have wanted those wars - he was a pacifist that didn't agree with Iraq 1.
He wouldn't have wanted innocent people killed in HIS name.
He would have wanted the person who did this to him - punished. And only that individual. Because there were so many accomplices in the crime, and many died in their endeavor to kill him . . . well - it's still not good enough.

So will I forget? Nope.
Should I? Maybe.

But then again, I had a cousin murdered by a bullet to the head, the 13th murder in Rochester NY in 1991. And I've never forgotten that he was murdered either.

I don't want brouhaha and flags - none of our circle of friends do. We just want justice.


It's hard because of the political 'bend' to the situation for people to sometimes understand: This was a criminal act by CHEAP TWO BIT DIMESTORE HOODS.

So I'm not forgetting it until I see Bin Lade'ns head - or his skeleton. Since he was The Guy who did it and put the CRIMINAL act all together.


Ha ha tee hee giggle - Tommy - my friend who died? He'd have a field day with Sarah Palin. I find her weighing in on this - hysterical. She's always put down people like Tommy - poor kid from an 'unAmerican place like NYC' . . . I hope he's laughing at her on the other side. And getting a kick out of the sheer stupidity in her - that he used to get doing his Dan Quayle impression! :rofl:

[bvar22]

46. Get Over 9-11?

There is a part of the 9-11 Investigation I'm NOT over, and that was the absence of the promised report on assigning responsibility.

[sendero]

47. I got over it..

... a long time ago. But I'll never believe the official version of how it went down, never.

[TheKentuckian]

49. It should have never dominated our world view or an excuse to abandon our values

It is my feeling that our actions and attitude toward ourselves and the world strongly indicate that the terrorist are winning big.

America slips away from fear, hate, and greed.

[tnlefty]

50. We should move on and I'm most impressed with VT did,

however the Dimson** misadministration so politicized 9/11 for their evil agenda, and it's still used today as a fear tactic, I'm not sure of the way forward.

I vividly remember that day and what I was doing until very late at night, but their fearmongering shit never worked on me. I just felt shocked and saddened that day, and still sad when the day rolls around. That gaping hole in the ground just symbolizes to me the inability of some to even try to let it go and to do something better than a damned hole in the ground.

Perhaps filling in the gaping hole and planting evergreens in it or something would be a start, but I don't live in NYC so I don't have any input.

[david13]

51. I got over it long ago. And I can't agree that "we" have anything

in New York. Whoever owns the land there is the 'they' that has it.
I'm me and you are you. I don't subscribe to this collective personality thing.
dc

[scarletwoman]

53. The biggest problem is that the true lesson of 9/11 will never be allowed to be aired in public.

It is absolutely verboten to have an open honest discussion about the role that our imperialist foreign policy had to play in this particularly spectacular bit of blowback.

No, because if we were to actually look within at our own culpability we would have to let go of our assumptions about our superiority and virtue and wounded victimhood. That would be anti-American.

"Ground Zero" (oh how I despise that term!) marks the spot where our chickens came home to roost. And NO one dares acknowledge that in public.

sw

[Dragonbreathp9d]

55. When will it no longer be "too soon"?

[JVS]

56. 2 sovereign countries, over 4500 soldiers, numerous civil liberties and amendments,...

and trillions of dollars have been sacrificed on the 9/11 altar. More offerings are brought to it each day.