Do you REALLY think that ANY framing of the Mosque story will change minds?

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

I mean, really? There are simply people who will not listen to reason or any explanation. You can give them all the history of Cordoba, all of the Google-mapping of the site, a whole list of titty bars and massage parlors. You can tell them that the Imam has helped the FBI, CIA, etc. None of it will matter. They will be offended by a mosque being 2, 3, 4, 7, 12, 500 blocks away from Ground Zero. People will simply hear and believe what they want to hear and believe. The facts really don't matter. This mosque issue is simply another symptom of the disease called epistemic closure. There apparently is no cure for the right.

And if people do listen to reason, then they have their fall-back position: why can't the Muslim community be sensitive to our feelings/emotions? The victims' families may suffer from epistemic closure, but can't we just respect that and their suffering and sacrifice. This issue is really made for just the right to use--they rhetorically use fear, patriotism, and disinformation, and then when they're called on it, they play the victim card and ask for sensitivity for the victims and for those who suffered (thus rejecting their earlier pleas for rationality and logic). This is like porn for the right. Heads they win; tails you lose.

Oh, well, at least we have the high ground on Social Security, right? Right?

[RKP5637]

1. Well said!!! n/t

[Warpy]

2. No, some people are just screamers

and will only stop screaming about this when something else is presented for them to scream about.

[RKP5637]

9. Isn't that the truth. It just moves on one item to the next, fear this, hate that, etc. This

has become all knee-jerk hatred and fear. And the screaming just go screaming to something else, just as you said.

Agree so much with you!!!

[CJCRANE]

3. The 9/11 families

who are calling for a new investigation into 9/11 should also be listened to in that case.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. And it's not even a mosque; it's a community center

with a basketball court and a cooking school and, incidentally, a prayer room. No mosque. Not that that should even matter, but the whole thing has been reported as if they wanted to build a mosque the size of Chartres Cathedral right ON the site of the WTC.

[TheKentuckian]

5. They don't believe in America and wish to undermine western civilization in favor of a Dark Age

ideology.

Recognize them for who they are and move along. Maybe they will think on the principles they espouse when it is easy and learn lo live them when it gets hard.

[LostInAnomie]

6. No. Tthere is no point in even discussing it with them.

The whole argument is ridiculous.

1. It's not a mosque
2. It's not at Ground Zero
3. Government is not in the business of making people do "what's right" when there is not legal reason to stop them.

You can't argue that with morons though.

[bluestateguy]

7. At a certain point you have to tell people to move on

9/11 was nine years ago. It was a tragedy and an act of terrorism, but it is over and if you are still feeling demons from that horrible day then what you need is some professional help; blocking the facility from being built will not ease your pain.

[piratefish08]

8. bigotry and cowardice masquerading as false compassion for 9/11 victims.

[JSK]

10. How about this?

[dem mba]

11. no, and I know this firsthand

because my girlfriend burst into tears when I was trying to convince her that it was ok for the mosque to be built there.

She is a native new yorker and still remembers what it SMELT like that day. for some people, Ground Zero is inextricably linked to a terrible, traumatic nightmare. I think DU would do well to keep that in mind. Logic will not win any converts in this debate.

So yea, I get the opposition to it. Glad Obama backed it (initially) and sorry to see Harry Reid wouldn't support it.

[Fumesucker]

12. The organ of smell is part of the brain..

And smell is possibly the most direct emotion causing of the senses.

To this day I can't smell ozone without it taking me back to my childhood and my first electric train set.

It's not at all surprising that your girlfriend remembers the smell, that must have been extremely powerful and connected with overwhelming emotional and sensory input.

[Odin2005]

13. Nope.

sometimes who have to stand up to bigots and tell them to f*** off.

[jberryhill]

14. This will work...

Slapping the cuffs on the first nutball to engage in violent opposition and putting him/her behind bars.

Maybe then they'll get it.

[Johonny]

15. You're not trying to change the minds of the right

The polls show upwards of 70 % opposed to this. Which means a large percentage of the Democratic base believe a Mosque shouldn't be built on ground zero. I think the 20 % back wash aren't changing their minds until Glenn Beck tells them the complete opposite is exactly what they believe all along. However I think framing the issue to your base can vastly change their opinion on the matter.

Framing certainly moved gay marriage opinions in the last 10 years.