Conversation at the hair dresser's re: mosque

[nadinbrzezinski]

So I needed a hair cut (badly) and I went to fantastic Sam's (And lord it really has gone up)

Anyway the hair dresser asked where I am from? (I got an accent)... so I told her, and went into the family history and all that, including why dad don't particularly like the US... and the holocaust.

The other hair dresser is also a daughter of the holocaust, and we started talking about HOW the Mosque story raises alarm bells and how much the pattern is so damn similar to what happened in the Germany of the 1930s. The other had not thought about it in quite that way... so we had a short history lesson, as well as constitutional rights. I also called THIS a version of antisemitism. The funny one was the GUY sitting two seats down who asked... so if they wanted to build one two blocks from your house?

Fine by me. My only concern for ANY religious building would be how it would affect traffic patterns and zoning laws. If the zoning law allows any religious building, fine by me, Church, Synagogue, Mosque, Shinto Temple or the Church of the Great FSM... that last one I had to explain. He just sat there, then he went... that's not what we're fighting for in Iraq...

So I calmly asked him, what unit did you serve with?

None, just saying.

I pulled out my copy of the Constitution, handed him the page opened to the Bill of Rights and kindly asked him to READ the First Amendment, pay particular attention to the Establishment clause. Then pointed out that today it is the unpopular kids in the block... who's next? Jews? Catholics? We have a history of this crap in this country.

So the obvious question came about MY ties to the military. I took out my dependent's card and pointed to him that my husband was over there... he physically got small, realizing that yes I was not shitting him, and that yes I understood what that document stands for.

[Dappleganger]

1. You go!

Would have loved to have watched him shrink a few inches.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Realize this is the same republican

yes he's proclaimed this proudly at a local starbucks in the same mall, who berated a vet for losing the war. We got the cops involved on that one. The cop who responded is a vet too. So it was pretty much a one way conversation. Not only a vet, a former DI.

The vet, we got him a cup of coffee and got him on his way to the vet home and some care.

I was amazed he did not remember THAT conversation.

He is the reason that when people tell me... Vets were spit upon during Nam... I believe it... by people like this one.

[MadMaddie]

35. They revel in their ignorance

They sit on their asses and berate everyone for a job they would never do.

You are right it was people like him that spit on our soldiers coming home from Vietnam and didn't serve themselves.

Thank you for educating folks along your way...

I do the same thing when I go to the beauty shop.....The ladies I go to are so busy that they don't get the full story....I try to educate along my way too...

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. You welcome, I consider this a duty

if we are going to preserve this country, this is what needs to happen.

[cliffordu]

72. I wish the son of a bitch would berate me like that.

Maybe he could be my celly up at County.

[Divernan]

60. If this guy shrunk a couple of inches, there'd be nothing left - if ya get my drift.

One of those GOP keyboard commandos - gutless wonder.

[pleah]

3. K&R

[malaise]

4. Bravo sis

Way to Go! :applause:

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. I fear though that many people

truly do not understand how easily that hate could go to THEM.

[HillbillyBob]

71. Amen and Thank You Nadinbrzezinski

I have done the same kind of corrective thing myself.

Mostly recently I don't really have the energy or the patience any more and just want to clobber them with my cane.

[Cleita]

5. Well, if we are going to talk about religious buildings

in your neighborhood, I have three, yes three of those mega churches a mile down the road from me and not that far apart from each other. I live in a rural, vacation type beach area so I can't even imagine where the population comes from to attend services. Maybe it explains why this area is so Republican. They must be feeding them pro-Republican propaganda with the Kool-Aid every Sunday. Yet, I acknowledge their right to exist.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. You know in Mexico, where my parents live

there are two churches and a slew of synagogues within ten miles. My only complaint? The traffic.

Here I am lucky, the nearest house of worship is downtown. This area is not zoned.

[csziggy]

33. Where I grew up there was a fundamentalist church a block and a half a way

They made sure no one in the neighborhood slept late. Without any amplification, they managed to be LOUD several blocks away. Mostly the singing, but some of the sermons were very loud. Every Sunday morning, beginning at 8 AM, going to noon or later. Choir practice on Tuesdays, evening service on Wednesdays.

I am so happy to live a fair distance from an church these days - now it is the lawn fanatic next door that wakes me on weekend mornings.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Seems you can never escape them!

One of the two churches I took my dad's friend (who saved his life during the Holocaust, RIP) one fine Sunday morning for service. He came to my oldest brother wedding. So here is this nice Jewish girl going in there with him. SO of course I did not cross myself... and the Padre was a tad annoyed. So we explained what was up... he insisted on seating the two of us at the place of honor. I didn't even know Churches had one. I know synagogues do.

Why we walked? The traffic. Why is is that you don't hear the service? Them walls are THICK.

[Fastcars]

27. Which came first?

The chicken or the egg?

Were the churches built to meet the demand of the right-wing masses? Or are the right-wing masses a result of the churches?

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. You do know that there are plenty of churches

who are very progressive and quite left of center right?

[HillbillyBob]

70. They do. Ever been in for a service?

I have been to many kinds of churches when I was young and trying to find my way. I did not like many, and some were really scary once you realise what they are after. It is not Muslims we need to be on guard about.

I lived in Miami for a while and I spoke with a number of Holocaust survivors in the early to mid 90s who lived in the same condo building that I did. A lot of what they had to say had to do with the evangelicals and identity churches et al and how things resembled the rise of Hitler in the late 20s through 30s. Same kind of noise and intimidation. I also had an uncle who survived Buchenwald as a child he was the only survivor.

[BlueMTexpat]

8. Hope you don't mind - but you are one of my Heroes!

:loveya:

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. This is what we all should be willing to do

And I happened to have the Constitution on me, since I am preparing a class... handy, indeed.

[BlueMTexpat]

14. The right to keep and bear "arms" ... LOL n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. On a serious matter

I am glad the 2nd Amendment exists... arming up for resistance if it should come down to that... well you can do that. No sneaking in of weapons or getting them in the underground. And if it comes down to that... well as a daughter of a holocaust survivor, I ain't going down without a fight. Ugly when one has to think in these terms any longer. But the more things change...

[MadMaddie]

37. I will be standing by your side

I think that the Republicans in their haste and ignorance have opened up the door to the radical hate mongers and now they can't control them. Corporate America can barely control them...they are a threat to the very fabric of the Constitution and America.

I think we all need to be very vigilant.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. Oh fully agreed.

[BlueMTexpat]

48. We used to be so smug about how horrors like the Nazi Regime

could never happen in this country. There were little blips from the HUAC era on that should have given us pause. Changes that would have been unheard of before became more commonplace and even "mainstreamed" in the 1980s. The clarion wake-up call was the stolen election of 2000. The period from December 2000-January 2009 was a living nightmare.
Like so many, I was overjoyed and hoped that the resounding victories for Dems in November 2008 would begin to turn the tide - and yes, in some ways - too few that have been well-publicized, IMO - things have improved. But the inability or outright failure to confront the liars, racists and bigots for so long has emboldened and strenthened them to where their rhetoric and even action - for some - know no bounds.
I would still like to hope that NEVER AGAIN ... and especially not here in these United States. I also still believe that there are more of us who believe in the ideals that our country was founded upon than there are of sheeple who will follow the fear and hatemongers wherever they lead.
But I am no longer smug about it - and I never will be again. Ever.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. I understand

trust me... that November of 2000 was a living nightmare. I cried on December 12, 2000... I knew something horrific had just happened. People ask me do you remember where you were on 9.11? Yes... but I also remember exactly where I was on December 12, 2000. This is why I try to educate people... because the best prevention against that hell is knowledge.

[oldhippydude]

69. a big part of "the Deal" is that media outlets, are now appendages

On election night i followed on MSNBC.. i let out a war whoop, and cried at the same time, when the election results we announced..i had some hope also (still do although, much tempered).. in the intervening interval, both the Reich wing smear machine, and the organs of the faith industry, have been promulgating pure bigotry..

there are now so many "spokesman", none will ever get the opportunity to ask "have you no shame sir?"

[Contrary1]

10. "that's not what we're fighting for in Iraq..."

Would have been interesting to hear his version of why we went to Iraq. Seems like most warmongers use the tired old "to protect our freedoms" excuse.

Since that wouldn't work; given his determination to deny the freedom of other Americans to build a house of worship/community center where they choose, I have to wonder what he believes we are fighting in Iraq for?

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Our freedoms, I am positive that would be the answer

war is peace comes to mind,

[pipi_k]

15. Well, see, when they say OUR freedoms....

they don't mean "their" freedoms.

And we all know what "they" they mean.


White Christians, preferably men, but they'll grudgingly allow women into that equation too. If they really must.

Oh, and innocent fetuses.

In their world, everybody else doesn't matter, and they're not "real" Americans.

[d_r]

16. that's right

they think "we are fighting over the to protect "our freedom" not to have a bunch of muslims build a mosque. The government is taking away our freedom by letting them do it."

They really are nuts.

[HillbillyBob]

89. That is something that bothers me about

this 14th amendment bs they are yammering about.

[Hepburn]

21. Ya think he would have admitted that it was for ...

...our oil under their sand? :hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. Well I knew this guy was not a vet

(Other encounter) but I usually ask since if they are vets... well at least they were willing to put their skin in the game. Over the last ten years I have yet to meet one, and hubby had the ID comparison only ONCE. They agreed to disagreed and actually invited each other coffee and talked about the weather.

[moose65]

55. I loved what Keith O said about that!

The "official" reason that we're in Iraq is to save those people from Saddam Hussein. Who ARE those people? Muslims! So 4500 of our military personnel have died to defend Iraqi Muslims, but we can't have a Muslim house of worship built in NY! Do these people even realize that the Iraqis are Muslims?

[iamthebandfanman]

59. i know right??

that was the first thing that came to mind...

i woulda asked that question and prepared myself ;p

[The Wizard]

63. What are we fighting for in Iraq?

oil company profits.
Any country that has tried to nationalize its oil has had its sovereignty threatened or been overthrown by the United States, either by force or stealth. The exception was the Soviet Union because they could fight back.

[louis-t]

78. My response to the question has always been..

"Our kids are dying in Iraq for George Bush's 'Daddy' issues and neo-con delusions of grandeur."

[BrklynLiberal]

11. Wow! Just wow...

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Lisa0825]

13. .

:yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock:

[d_r]

17. Great story

Good for you!

[JerseygirlCT]

18. You go, girl! nt

[Brooklyns_Finest]

19. Antisemitism

Most of the antisemitism committed in Europe are by Muslims toward the Jews.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Yes I am aware

and given that Arabs are also of SEMITIC origin, when we attack mosques in this country (and most Americans do not realize being Muslim don't mean you are automatically an Arab) is an antisemitic attack. Very technically it does fit the definition.

Do I need to explain it any further?

Personally I wish we could get away from the terms... but IN THE US, insofar as places that do it overtly (Stormfront for example, yes I have read their lovely rants from time to time), they are brown people and semitic people. I am not using the even less nice language.

There is more, if we don't stand up to the racists amonst us, who's next? I am willing to bet Jews mostly because Temples have been attacked, Catholics, Irish, Mexicans... in other words, the list is long.

[MadMaddie]

38. That's why it pains me when I hear African Americans

who know our history in the U.S.A side with the right wing on all issues..

Clarence Thomas
RNC Chairman Michael Steel

When you hear descendents of Martin Luther King stand up and hate gays along with the right wing......something terrible is happening.

They think they are accepted by the right and reality is they are merely pawns.

If I go to a church and they start on the hate I leave...

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. I suspect some of this is human nature

seeing others as the other.

When my hubby was growing up he knew a neighbor, who was a holocaust survivor. Hell he saw that number as a sign of pride. Well my hubby is a rabble rouser and challenged this gentleman on his anti black feelings. Did I mention hubby was nine? Something 'bout truth and mouths of babes.

I have no idea how to kill the virus. My only response is to stand to it every time I see it... no matter the source. Yes I called a family friend on it as well... and don't get me started on my older brother. These days I just put all his emails in the trash. If he were living in the US he'd be a committed GOP, far right, fan. Or like he's done in Mexico, he badmouths the moderates but will not vote for the far right since he's figured out they'd love to kill him.

Every family has one... hey at least I don't have to "listen" to him more than once a year.

[Hepburn]

20. Clap, clap, clap...

...:applause: :patriot: Outstanding!

[Curmudgeoness]

25. That's the way to put him in his place.

:applause:

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. And in his case this is the second time

perhaps the third will be the charm and have a light bulb going CLUE. CLUE, CLUE... NAH

[Curmudgeoness]

29. Hope that he learned a valuable lesson today. It had to kick

his ass when he had to admit that he never went to war, and your hubby is there now. Nah, he probably just learned to forget getting into it with YOU. Wish I had a magic wand that I could beat the shit out of people like that with.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Was there, now retired

:-)

We just got to enjoy the fucked up logistics for the first two years. Has not gotten better. Why we still send care packages to troops, every so often. We put silly shit in them like oh toilet paper and shaving kits... you cannot get either easily in theater.

We also put the obligatory collection of cheap novels, and of course a copy of MAD magazine.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

28. You seriously rock!

Talk about walking the walk!

I am so damn proud of you!

:yourock:

[steve2470]

30. thanks for standing up for the Constitution ! nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. You welcome, this is something we all have to do

[spanone]

36. k&r..

[Shanti Mama]

39. Who did he think we were liberating in Iraq? nt

[Mister Ed]

44. I thank you for your service (to common sense and common decency)

and I thank your husband for his service to our nation.

:patriot:

[flpab]

53. you go girl!

I am a military wife also. I watched Who do you think you are the other night, was a repeat but Lisa Kudrow was so moving in this episode going back to Poland. She said it so well, all the murders because Hitler was so fearful of anyone that didn't think the same as he did.

[Aristus]

45. Bravo! And good on ya!

:applause::patriot:

BTW, I LOVE my iPod Touch U.S. Constitution app. I get to have the Constitution at my fingertips any time any one of those right-wing, know-nothing blowhards tries to pull a "Well, it's in the Constitution!" I can take out my iPod and say: "All right, show me where!" That shuts them up... B-)

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. I had an actual paper copy

that I am actually highlighting...

I need that if I get the gig teaching.

[applegrove]

46. Right on!

[blm]

50. (( )) to you...great points, nadinb....

.

[Douglas Carpenter]

51. kick and recommend!! that was truly fantastic!!!

[PassingFair]

52. Arabs are the new Jews!

Its uncool to go off against Jews (since
the churchy people KNOW that they are
needed to bring Armageddon).

But it's patriotic to hate Arabs now.


They have to have a devil!

:crazy:

[harun]

54. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

As a Muslim I feel similar. If the Community Center is causing problems with zoning or other placement difficulties (both local issues) by all means have the local people work out a solution. Of course New York is very good at this being one of the most diverse places on Earth. The locals of course have been dealing fine with it, it is the people using this for political advantage that are causing the trouble. It is also the people using it for political advantage that is scary to me, for the same reasons it wrung an alarm with you.

I was wondering if similar tolerated inequalities and injustices are how things started out for the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition">Inquisition. Where politicians were rewarded for their bias and it just increased the injustices.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

56. K&R

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

57. Just wondering .....

There is a Catholic Church about two or three blocks from the Oklahoma National Memorial.

Tim McVeigh was raised a Catholic ... We all know what he did.

Just wondering where the outrage is?

[Statistical]

58. "I pulled out my copy of the Constitution"

This sentence alone is win.

I mean if you carry a copy of the Constitution with you well that is pure win.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

61. What if your hairdresser was right wing?

Would you argue with someone who's cutting your hair? That would take some guts, risking a strange, lop-sided cut.

Arguing with another customer? Phht.

:rofl:

(good job, showing him a copy of the Bill of Rights)

And, best of luck to your husband, hope he comes back safe and sane.

[Zoeisright]

62. You are an American hero. Heck, you're a world hero!

Thank you for your incredibly smart, succinct, and on-point debating skills.

[NC_Nurse]

64. Most excellent. Maybe you gave the guy pause...

[Historic NY]

65. Should have reminded him the Iraq is a Muslim country...good job.

[pgodbold]

66. Six hugs and a pat on the back for you!! nt

[glinda]

67. Wonderful story. Unfortunately those who wish to change the Constitution have no

over all concept of "why they shouldn't" keep messing with it. They are unable to make connections to the larger picture and perhaps this is a failure of our eduction system, our government or a genetic mutation.

[MilesColtrane]

68. That deserves a BAZINGA!

[ourbluenation]

73. Been on this here DU a long time and that is my favorite post, EVAH!

well done.

[AnArmyVeteran]

74. Thank you for sharing that and for standing up for truth...

[gauguin57]

75. We are "supposedly" fighting in Iraq for the welfare of a group of Muslim people.

As Keith pointed out the other night, the last of the many "official" BushCo explanations of why we went to Iraq was to liberate the people of Iraq from the tyranny of Saddam.

Those Iraqi people? They're Muslim. We're fighting for Muslims, and yet we don't want them to move their community center from one spot in NYC to another, bigger spot in NYC? I mean, seriously.

[Hekate]

76. Nadine, I loves ya

:loveya: :pals: :toast: :patriot: :yourock:

Hekate

[jimmyzvoice]

77. It's not only Constitutional but a "good" idea...

Why don't prominent Democrats stand up and say, not only is it allowed, but it would be a GOOD idea to build this "Mosque" within blocks of ground zero as a symbol of religious freedom in America? Let's take the offensive on this issue.

[meegbear]

79. K&R!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!

[WoodyD]

80. You're my new hero

And may the FSM bring your husband home soon and safe.

I saw a Tweet today that said "In Iraq we've made a lot of ground zeros next to a lot of mosques."

[4lbs]

81. Very nice! You should also mention that the last 4 wars the U.S. has been involved in has been

to help Muslims. Often against other Muslims, but still, helping Muslims.


1990 Gulf War
=============
Help the Kuwaiti Muslims get their country back from Saddam Hussein


1998 War in Kosovo
===================
Help the Albanian Muslims against the "Christian" Serbian leader Slobodan Milosevic


2001 Afghanistan
==================
Expel the Taliban from Afghanistan and help the Afghan Muslim people


2003 Iraq War
==================
Oust Saddam Hussein and let the people of Iraq (nearly all Muslim) elect their own leader properly.

[DirkGently]

82. Excellent. If we all called this garbage, every time we saw it

... we might see less of it. None of these cutesy-but-hateful bumper sticker memes stand up to five minutes of intelligent discussion.

Thanks for taking the five minutes for all of us.

[Kurovski]

83. K&R.

It's so simple.

That there is an argument over this is really distressing.

And fucking annoying.

[Ikonoklast]

84. Oil company profits.

Short answer to his incredibly ignorant question about Iraq.

[bigwillq]

85. Good work.

:thumbsup:

[handmade34]

86. rec

:applause:

[sam sarrha]

87. i think it is reasonable to check where the 4.7 million in "Cash" came from, the guy showing up with

the cash worked as a waiter 6 years ago. doesn't that qualify as an 'Inordinate' amount of cash money.. they'd haul my sorry ass in and want to know where it came from.

[FedUp_Queer]

88. Speechless...in a good way!!!