What are your "acceptable" cuts to Social Security?

[nashville_brook]

Poll question: What are your "acceptable" cuts to Social Security?

[MannyGoldstein]

1. You forgot "whatever Obama wants" as a choice

Would win overwhelmingly tonight, I think.

[nashville_brook]

6. seems that way. i hope people snap out of it.

[readmoreoften]

14. I trust Obama to make the right decision. If he wants to reduce social security payments,

raise the retirement age, transform public schools by creating private charters, replace our troops in Iraq with private contractors, expand our much needed military adventures in Afghanistan, keep the Pakistani terrorists in line with our impressive predator drones, and keep the teachers unions in line--(there needs to be a balance of power after all!!!) I'm sure there's a lot less torture at Bagram Airfield Theatre now that Obama's in charge. For all we know, he probably shut it down. He has very good judgement, you know. I think Gitmo is still open. But it is much more humane now. I hear they have Popcorn Thursdays and Twister Mondays. (How bad can it be?)

I don't get all these people who are so angry with Obama for doing what needs to be done. If we don't take the Republicans positions, the Republicans will take the Republicans positions and then we'll never get important bills like the Healthcare Private Insurance Mandate through congress.

I like Obama's puppy. And he is our most handsome president ever. If he has to attack social security, I, for one, am prepared to suffer.

[Bozita]

17. +1 ... Outstanding!

[nashville_brook]

18. i too like his puppy.

:fistbump:

(that's brilliant!)

[MannyGoldstein]

19. How do you feel about Michelle's toned arms?

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/02/26/toning.obama.arms/index.html

[readmoreoften]

26. I like Michelle Obama's toned arms. I don't think there are nearly enough picture threads

of Michelle Obama looking pretty and Barack and Michelle holding hands and being in love. It just shows how important and meaningful a beautiful marriage can be. For straight people. Does anyone know where I can get Obama Family wallpaper? I just can get enough of their beautiful faces.

[nashville_brook]

28. those are my favorite b/c I can imagine what it would be like to have a King and Queen.

it's classy like that.

[L0oniX]

31. Let's have our own Camelot.

[glitch]

75. Thanks you guys, I needed a laugh this morning! :) nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

32. A++++++

[MannyGoldstein]

34. Agreed. What if Bo has puppies?

Would that be incredible, or what? They can go to Democrats and Republicans, a touching example of how, deep down, we're all the same.

Except that the Democrats wouldn't eat their puppies. Unless they are DLC.

[readmoreoften]

38. And wouldn't it be a touching gesture...

..if each casket coming back from Afghanistan contained one cute little presidential puppy to relieve the family of its grief!!! It'd be like "Oh no, daddy is died!" and then it'd be like "Look at the puppy! Daddy brought me a puppy!" But the puppy wouldn't be from Daddy, the puppy would be from Obama. That'd be the most Democratiest act of kindness ever! That'd be real change!

[polmaven]

85. Well,

Since Bo is a male, it really would be incredible if he has puppies.

[Mimosa]

40. ^ LOL Cracking up LOL! ^ n/t

[Smashcut]

44. AMAZING

:rofl: and :thumbsup: to everything you're doing on this thread

[Enthusiast]

59. And the kids are sooo cute. nt

[Ignis]

91. "For straight people."

:spray: :rofl: :D

Damn, you're good. :thumbsup:

[QC]

69. They make me feel all funny inside. n/t

[Nite Owl]

20. This definitely deserves

to be an opening post!

[L0oniX]

30. Puppies!

:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

Ponies too

[Dr.Phool]

58. Puppies with kittens.

[nashville_brook]

90. i love both puppehs and kittehs!

[obxhead]

36. LOL

Great post.

[Enthusiast]

57. I believe I will adopt your position. nt

[smokey nj]

63. You are a genius and your posts in this thread are works of art.

Well done!
:yourock:

[OwnedByFerrets]

80. That may be best post I've ever read. BRAVO!!!

[SammyWinstonJack]

100. I don't think he is our most handsome president ever.

And HANDS OF SOCIAL SECURITY ! :argh:

One thing is certain, he'll never have to rely on SS in his retirement yrs, like so many of us will.

[Smashcut]

43. Sad and true.

[Yupster]

50. Neither of my two choices are in the poll either

1. Have all earned income subject to FICA.

2. Bring all workers into the system. I've never had it explained to me why so many workers are not included in social security, the largest groups being most public school teachers in California, Texas and many other states.

Those two changes would vastly improve the program's health.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Taking that cap off... so EVERYBODY

puts in on ALL their income.

Nah, that will never fly... but a girl can dream.

[Bozita]

9. Call it "topless" and millions of male teabaggers will favor it.

They don't want to hear any explanations. Just give 'em the name.

Topless Social Security!

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. RLOL

:spank: :spank: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

That WAS hysterical! And sadly it just MIGHT work.

[Yupster]

72. Can we also bring everyone into the system

so everybody puts into it.

Right now most public schoolteachers in California, Texas and many other states are not part of the social security system.

[bluestateguy]

3. Not a cut, but to bring more revenue in

Gradually lift the cap on the earnings at which you pay FICA taxes. It' stupid that only the first $106,000 is taxed.

[nashville_brook]

27. and include investment earnings b/c that's where the richest rich have their wealth

[Hannah Bell]

45. the cap is already raised nearly every year.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

60. Gradually lift the cap? Why not just toss it away?

FICA taxes are not a huge hit, so why not just apply them to all income, instead of just the first bunch?

:hi:

[xxqqqzme]

82. That could be a real boon.

If the cap was removed the wealthiest would be convincing the struggling, rapidly decreasing middle class tea baggers that it was a 'new' tax. Then we would be treated to even more tea parties w/ even more completely irrelevant stupid and misspelled signs. See it is a win-win.

[polmaven]

83. I was thinking

the only acceptable cut is to cut the cap on earnings out of the law completely.

[Rage for Order]

4. Stop taxing SS Benefits

And remove the cap on earnings subject to SS tax. What? Those aren't cuts, you say? My bad.

:)

[doc03]

10. I'll second that motion n/t

[NorthCarolina]

5. Lower COLA?

Isn't that already at zero now?

[nashville_brook]

8. since it's tied to wages, then yes...it's essentially zero.

[MannyGoldstein]

13. Both of Obama's co-chairman want to lower the formula

So that COLA increases would be 1% lower from now on (e.g., if it was going to be 2.5% it would change to 1.5%).

[nashville_brook]

15. damn -- i did not know that.

[MannyGoldstein]

16. 'Democrat' Bowles cut a deal with Gingrich to do that

under Clinton, but Congress refused.

Simpson's also proposed it.

[nashville_brook]

21. seems like i recently read something about the dismantling of AARP as a political block

the stars are aligning for a major skinning on this.

[MannyGoldstein]

24. More info on how Clinton, Gingrich, and Bowles tried to slash Social Security

http://firedoglake.com/2010/05/18/how-monica-lewinsky-saved-social-security-clinton-gingrich-bowles-and-the-pact/

DLC motherfuckers.

[doc03]

22. The COLA has always been reduced by a raise in

the Medicare premium to start with.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

7. No means testing?

[nashville_brook]

29. wouldn't that be nice. if the rich actually paid their fair share.

[Hannah Bell]

46. taxing ss as income = means testing.

[Warren Stupidity]

53. NOT WELFARE

SS is an insurance program that pays an annuity at age 65. It is not welfare. Everyone pays in, everyone gets a pension.

[nashville_brook]

12. if you're for cutting SS -- go ahead and let us know why.

[SnoopDog]

23. Remove cap. Lower retirement age.

That is all you have to do.

Remove cap - never a funding problem

Lower retirement age = nobody should be forced to work when they are old(er) and retired people allow younger folks to work.

Humans just want the worst for other humans don't we...

[nashville_brook]

25. i can't imagine how impossible it would be to find a job as a senior...it's bad enough being

...uh...not a senior. we're making it so seniors must work to make ends meet, at a time when finding a job is harder than it's ever been in recent history.

[DirkGently]

33. Why worry? Many would-be retirees find fulfillment in the mining

and waste disposal industries.

:thumbsup:

[glitch]

76. Not only that but a lot of retirees give back to the community.

Can you imagine, community gardens, business advice at the SBA, classes at community centers, food distribution, housing help. Oops, that sounds like Socialism. Nevermind.

[Cleita]

35. Other...lift the cap so that billionaires pay the same

15% of their income that everyone who makes under $106,000 a year does. And there is nothing wrong with SS for years from now. This is another red herring, courtesy of the corporations, who resent having to pay half that 15% for their employees and Wall Street who think they should have that money in the trust fund not the retirees who paid into it all their lives.

[exboyfil]

56. I agree with removing the cap with one caveat

It should be at a reduced rate that reflects that they do not get benefits on that additional payment. Right now the $50K to $105K folks carry the weight of Social Security. Those below $50K actually do better actuarially by contributing to Social Security. Those above about $50K, because of the reduced benefit funding formula, do worse. You don't want really high incomes to be calculated into the funding formula because that would cause too many distortions. To expect those making $50 to $105K to carry the load alone is ridiculous.

I would be careful with additional means testing of Social Security. I think you want to encourage individuals to save for retirement. Frankly at some point on penalizing me for my 401k money, I will decide to stop working earlier and draw down that money to avoid this needs testing. With a spouse or a roommate, I calculate that I could have a survivable retirement even without my savings. I would rather have my freedom at an earlier age than be penalized for being thrifty my entire life.

Everyone should be in the system starting with their first paycheck. No one should be excluded. The way the funding formula works (approx. 90% benefit calculation on incomes up to $10K) you can game the system for a pretty nice retirement check. Some ratios to consider (assuming 35 years of earning at the same level calculated and 6.2% withholding by you and your employer):

Those making up to $9132 20.7% of yearly benefits/payments
Those making up to $55032 9.6% of yearly benefits/payments
Those making up to $106,800 6.6% of yearly benefits/payments

That last group probably also falls under pseudo needs testing (taxing Social Security benefits).

In general you cannot impact your Social Security check after you have 35 years of good earnings.

Note you could make $32,000 for 10 years on S.S. and be entitled to a check the same size as someone who worked 35 years at $9100. Makes sense to retire from a system outside of Social Security at 55 and get that Social Security job until retirement. The payback is huge.

[BreweryYardRat]

37. None. Raise the cap instead. n/t

[flyarm]

39. None , I paid into it for my entire life starting at ae 14..I paid for it ..got that?

It was taken out of all my paychecks my entire life starting at age 14..I want what i paid for! Anything less is stealing from me!

And from every worker who paid into SS!

It would be worse than Highway robbery to take a penny from those of us who have funded our retirement funds of SS!

[nashville_brook]

70. there's a propaganda campaign to shift perception on this -- that SS is unearned "dole."

it's not -- it's earned, paid for, and it's the backbone of our safety net. i don't want to live in a country that starves its seniors.

[Juche]

41. raise the cap and raise the tax

Raise the tax to 13% and/or eliminate the cap.

In 1993 Bill Clinton eliminated the medicare cap (medicare was capped at 90% of income like SS is). had he not done that medicare would be in far far worse shape.

[AlabamaLibrul]

42. Who the FUCK voted for privatization and why? n/t

[Hannah Bell]

47. "democrats"

[Marr]

48. Give it a few months. Once the Administration has released it's sales pitch,

the boosters will have a list of pragmatic, "adult" cuts to Social Security. They don't which cuts they support yet, because they haven't been told.

[laughingliberal]

49. +1000 nt

[nashville_brook]

51. oh so true!

[Warren Stupidity]

52. Cut the eligibility age for medicare to 0 and ss to 60.

I fully support these cuts.

[nashville_brook]

54. well said.

[sendero]

55. Yes...

... these cuts are difficult but they must be made!

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

61. I voted for raising the retirement age

But before doing that, we need to make jobs more secure. Cut H-1B visas, tax the hell out of outsourcing overseas work, raise taxes on imported goods, until our unemployment rate reaches acceptable levels.

There's no point raising a retirement age if there are no jobs to retire from.

:hi:

[nashville_brook]

64. you don't have to answer this if you don't want to -- but can I ask how old you are?

are you within 5, 10, 20 years of retirement?

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

65. 64

and I just got laid off. So, if I don't find a job, then I guess I am already retired.

:hi:

[nashville_brook]

67. and you'd be okay with raising the age right from under you. very altruistic.

[NorthCarolina]

68. He is

64 and therefore already qualifies for SS since you can start receiving it at 62. Raising the retirement age would not affect him personally, but those in the 50-60 age group would be screwed. Typical, "I got mine" mindset at work here I think.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

71. Not altruistic, just greedy

I'd rather not be laid off, I'd rather work a few more years to save more money.

I would be eligible for "full" SS retirement at age 66. Or, I can collect a smaller monthly amount (early retirement) because I'm over 62.

If it looks like I'm not going to find work, if unsuccessful for another half year or so, then I'll probably go ahead and start collecting the lesser (early) SS amount.

It's unclear if the OP poll would raise the "full" retirement age to 70, or raise the "early" retirement age to 70. Either would be fine with me, if my damn job would have not gone overseas.

:hi:

[Warren Stupidity]

73. Your reply makes zero sense.

You can't find a job as it is, but you would like to be left out in the cold for another five or six years? You think your situation is somehow unique? I am baffled.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

74. Back to my original response

I support raising the retirement age, but only if the jobs are available, made secure by reducing or removing H-1B visas, and taxing the hell out of imports, including the importation of the products of outsourcing.

Right now, the government action rewards corporations for domestic job loss. In this environment, raising the retirement age makes little sense.

No, my situation is not unique. It's all too common.

[Warren Stupidity]

79. Why should poor people have to work until they are 70?

Why are you in favor of punishing everyone except the rich?

[nashville_brook]

87. he's putting on -- he doesn't believe any of that, for whatever reason.

[nashville_brook]

86. oh! i see. thanks for clarifying.

[trayfoot]

62. Befpre ANY cuts are made to SS,

the cap should be raised and the fund protected from general use by the government!

[nashville_brook]

66. when the question is presented to us, the way i presented it here...yours is the only right answer.

it's going to be presented as "the sensible thing" is to save it by cutting it. we have to counter that meme with force.

[DirkGently]

81. I just got an e-mail invitation from Grayson to pose a

question to the President, who apparently will be visiting the area. Here's what I suggested:

The National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform has been dubbed the "Catfood Commission" because its goal appears to be cutting benefits so drastically that retirees will only be able to afford pet food. The administration has recently taken a stand against privatization of Social Security, but has not commented on whether it would support other types of across-the-board cuts, such as raising the retirement age. I won't be collecting Social Security for some time yet, but I'm concerned that the conversation has suddenly focused on privatization, which seems an unlikely possibility in any case, rather than on cuts, which seems to be the main focus of Congressional "deficit hawks." Will the administration stand firm against ANY cuts to Social Security benefits, particularly as the nation continues to spend hundreds of billions on the war in Afghanistan? Thank you.

A bit klunky, perhaps, but to the point. I was under pressure to answer Grayson's e-mail. Don't want him to think I don't care. :)

[humblebum]

78. Absolutely. It seems so obvious and yet???? nt

[humblebum]

77. The only change I would make is to remove ALL caps on income

exempted from paying into the system.

[happy_liberal]

84. I think we should cut gov't retirement and health care completely!

For the SOBs in Congress and the Senate and all the other gas bags living off the government dole in DC.

As for the rest of us, SS is not an entitlement, it is not welfare, it is money that people paid in for retirement and they want it back as promised. It is not too much to ask. It is the only way it's going to be done. That is our money, it is not for the wars, or the bailouts or whatever other crap they come up with to spend money on.

We need to change the meme ourselves, because the democratic party certainly wont.

If they want to cut costs, maybe take a look at all the military brass double dipping on pensions??

[Scuba]

88. Raise the cap. That's the only change we need. n/t

[B Calm]

89. LOWER the SS retirement age to 60!

[RussBLib]

92. Eliminate all benefits for the rich

They still have to pay into the system, but get no benefits. And raise the cap from $95K to $500K.

[nashville_brook]

97. it would be nice if this idea were on the table.

[Vincardog]

93. Why not add LOWER the retirement age?

[nashville_brook]

95. ...

eggsactly.

my point here was to demonstrate how the debate is being framed...so we don't get framed. :evilgrin:

[JNelson6563]

94. I once knew a man

who had a boatload of money. He had no interest in collecting SS and believed wealthy sods like him shouldn't collect it. Considering the source I thought the idea had some merit.

Julie

[eridani]

98. He doesn't have to. All he has to do is to never apply for it.

Many rich people don't because it's just another accounting annoyance.

[FooshIt]

96. Take social security away from anyone with over 100K in liquid assets

problem solved

[unapatriciated]

99. You do realize that one major illness could devastate that nest egg.

100k could be used up in no time, if diagnosed with a catastrophic illness. My share of cost ( with pretty good insurance) was 20k the first year of my son's illness (1991 dollars).