Why we can't see eye to eye on "Ground Zero Mosque"

[holiday]

I hate going to facebook right now. So many people crapping their pants at the "ground zero mosque".

I see comments here, like "why aren't they mad about the ground zero strip clubs etc... Well to a republican who has been fear mongered for so long...strippers won't kill them.

They are upset because they see ALL Muslims as terrorist and they see the religion as evil. They don't understand that the terrorists are a small small radical group that just so happens to be Muslim. Just like there are radical Christian groups as well.

We don't understand the upset over it because we understand the nuance. We get it that the problem isn't Muslims, the problem isn't their religion, the problem is with terrorists. We want a free country, and guess what? We want freedom for everyone, not just people who fit in our small narrow view.

They are black and white thinkers, who react based on feelings rather than fact. We base our beliefs on fact and on the principles that have made this country great.

[DURHAM D]

1. I am so tired of a community center being referred to as a mosque.

Almost every hospital in this country has a quiet room. Sometimes it is called a family room, sometimes it is called a meditation room and sometimes, if it is in a church affiliated hospital, it is called a chapel.

Therefore, using the logic applied to the community center, every hospital that has a chapel should be redefined as a Cathedral.

[holiday]

2. that's why I used "quotes" around it.

I'm tired of it to. It has a freakin fitness center for crying out loud. lol

[holiday]

3. That's why I used quotes

[snagglepuss]

4. I hate to say this but you are hypocritical. You claim you embrace nuance

but your description of opponents of the mosque is anything but nuanced. You dump all opponents into one basket "They are upset because they see ALL Muslims as terrorist and they see the religion as evil." That is pure BS.

[Chulanowa]

6. No it's not

In fact that seems to be the primary driving force behind opponents of the community center here on DU, as well.

[snagglepuss]

17. Baloney. The majority on both sides are engaged in b & w thinking as is

evidenced on DU. Need I mention the irrational responses from mosque proponents to my posting the letter the Muslim Canadian Congress delivered to the Iman. The meme of the day ' opponents ofthe location are bigots'. Maybe two or three responses from proponents might be considered nuanced but that I think is even stretching it.


http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8948363&mesg_id=8948363

[Chulanowa]

23. Nope, you don't need to remind me

Do I need to remind YOU that just because Clarence Thomas agrees with Pat Buchanan does not actually validate what Pat Buchanan says?

[snagglepuss]

You've lost me. Wh mention Thomas and Buchanan?

[snagglepuss]

26. You've lost me. Wh mention Thomas and Buchanan?

[snagglepuss]

27. You've lost me. Why bring Thomas and Buchanan into this?

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. I'lll admit to being black and white

and I am quite inflexible on this minor point...

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Sorry if I seem quite black and quite and non-nuanced on this.

[holiday]

8. nope

The people who are against the "mosque" feel that way because they blame all Muslims, and/or the religion on 9/11 attacks. If they didn't want then is their anger about it?

The people who are not against the "mosque" understand that it's just another religious center, because we don't loop all muslims as terrorists.

I say this as a Christian.

[seabeyond]

11. the only other perspective would be for individual pain of loved ones from 911. that doesnt work

as a reason either because there are plenty of people that have loved ones that died in 911 that are for the center.

since you see that the poster was a hypocrite, maybe you can point out what you are talking about instead of just saying, .... wrong.

[snagglepuss]

16. Sorry I don't understand your first statement, As for

about the OP being hypocritical, he is because he claims proponents like himself are nuanced whereas opponents are not nuanced but see things in only b & w terms which is hypocritical because he smears all opponents to be Islamophobes. Note the strawman. 'opponents claim all Muslims are terrorists'.

[seabeyond]

18. then what would be another reason for opposing this center?

other than empathy for family loved ones that lost someone, and being islamphobes, what would be any other reason for being opposed to the center?

[snagglepuss]

20. I'll defer to Asra Nomani to address that.

http://www.dailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-08-10/why-muslims-like-me-agree-with-the-tea-party-activists/full/

[seabeyond]

21. ok, you call the poster out as if you have another reason. i ask what it is adn you give me a link

i assume what you are defering to is the "obama, no regret", since you did not link me to a story but what appears a front page with lots of stories

in that paragraph about no regrets, it give absolutely no reasoning about why that center should not be there, so i am clueless what you are deferring to

do you want to make you challenge, argument, opposition to op a little more clear?

[snagglepuss]

22. Not worth the hassle of being attacked as a bigot. I went thru that the

other day when I posted an article by Raheel Raza and Tarek Fatah of the Muslim Canadian Congress explaining why they opposed this project.

[seabeyond]

30. so you make a comment that what the poster says is not true. but wont "educate" any of us

i see two things.

feel sorry for those that lost relatives and friends
thinking all muslims are terrorists

i honesty cannot see another reason a person would have issue with the center.

[snagglepuss]

31. Your sarcastic use of "educate" merely proves my point that attempts

to discuss serious reservations are met with derision. People like myself not towing the correct line, are accused of bigotry by zealots whose attitude are no different than those of zealot teabaggers, different cheeks but same arse.

[seabeyond]

32. no, it is calling op out and 6 posts later you still dont clarify your post, or accusation

that is the sarcastic you hear.

two

i see two reason

mulim = islamic fundamentalist, ergo a threat
feel sorry for people who lost loved ones

[Scarsdale Vibe]

24. Did you even read the article from Asra Nomani?

She objects to the current mosque 4 blocks from GZ because she considers it to be an extremist interpretation of Islam, but supports the Cordoba House because she thinks it will provide a moderate version of Islam that she supports.

[snagglepuss]

25. If you didn't jump to conclusions you wouldn't be asking me that question.

I posted her piece because it is an example of someone rationally debating the issue,for instance she, unlike cheerleaders here who outrightly dismiss any concern about Islamist involvement, is concerned about extremism.
She unlike most here on DU is making a nuanced argument.

There is much I agree with and she has made some points I hadn't,however, without disclosing who is financing the project, it is premature IMO to jump to the conclusion thta it doesn't have ties to Islamists. The fact that the Iman seems moderate is niether here nor there, Tariq Ramadam seems moderate but that is only skin deep.

[RandomThoughts]

5. You are correct in my view.

Most Christians are taught that other religions are the enemy, even to the point of them being total evil.

The conflict between some factions from Abraham faiths has always been so fascinating. If you really want to upset them, and they think names and labels mean so much, you can have fun with the name Abraham or Islam, but I don't because I don't think of things in terms of labels.


But anyways, if Christians think all Islam is evil and the enemy, they should love them by the teachings of Jesus Christ. And kindness to friends is also a good idea, so as a Christian I think showing love for those still hurt from loss of 9/11 in New York should also be done.

On topics where much fear and pain exist, those things can create vitriol reactions and many can tap that to gin up a base, since it is a form of energy.

[holiday]

7. on fb they keep saying that the community center is having

a inauguration on 9/11 is that true? I can't find it anywhere?

[DainBramaged]

9. "why aren't they mad about the ground zero strip clubs etc... "

Because they understand strip clubs, but if it isn't about the Baby Jesus, they are clueless when it comes to religion, therefore they hate every other religion except fundamentalist Christian (or super devout Catholic), just ask the Supreme Court).

[seabeyond]

12. that argument makes absolutely no sense and we are jumping up and down as if we are actually

saying something with that argument. i wish we would stop. makes us look stupid. as stupid as the repug when they jump on obama's birth certificate

[DainBramaged]

13. Well, it's my argument, and I am sticking to it, so there

:hug:

[seabeyond]

15. ha ha ha. that is funny. umhu. nt

[MisterP]

10. also, it's often based on OTHERS' emotions, not their own reactions

they hear something, get worked up, forget it after 2 months-2 years, and start a new cycle

[SargeUNN]

14. to me it is a none issue because

they met requirements, they have the ownership of the property legally and by the U.S. Constitution they are well within their rights. So the constitution says ok then I say OK.

[TheKentuckian]

19. Exactly

[western mass]

28. you forgot to call them what they are: bigots

This is still (unbelievably) an issue is because people aren't using the words that plainly describe these people: bigots and racists.

[JerseygirlCT]

33. Unfortunately, there seems to be quite a contingent

of black and white thinkers here at DU. Not to mention Howard Dean.