Howard Dean: "mosque" should move

[babylonsister]

I'm surprised.

http://www.salon.com/news/ground_zero_mosque/index.html?story=/opinion/greenwald/2010/08/18/dean

Howard Dean: "mosque" should move
By Glenn Greenwald

(updated below)

Certain things are disappointing and surprising even for the most hardened cynics. Hearing Howard Dean -- the former liberal standard-bearer -- join Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin by saying the following is definitely one of them:

Video at link~

Making this more repellent is that he doesn't even the "I-want-to-get-re-elected" excuse. Today, former Reagan Solicitor General Ted Olson -- whose wife, Barbara Olsen, was killed on 9/11 -- said he saw no reason for Park51 to move. And Peter Beinart, expediting his transformation from TNR Seriousness Guardian into shrill liberal blogger, today called on Democrats to -- as he put it -- "Grow a Pair" by standing up to this increasingly toxic campaign. Yet here comes Howard "Democratic wing of the Democratic Party" Dean, advocating that the vicinity of Ground Zero be turned into a Muslim-free zone because some people don't want Muslims near it. It's episodes like this which breed increasing levels of pervasive disgust and even indifference about electoral outcomes.

UPDATE: After hearing Dean say this, I wrote on Twitter: "Please: nobody ask Russ Feingold what he thinks of Park51 - really couldn't stomach hearing him say it should move - difficult race or not." Thanks to amites for pointing out that Feingold -- in an extremely difficult re-election battle in a purple state -- has already spoken out in favor of the community center remaining right where it is. Just as impressively, Alexi Giannoulias -- the Democratic nominee for Senate in Illinois (for Obama's old seat) -- came out and strongly supported Park51 as well. So those two stand in stark and impressive contrast to Dean. And see this Ann Tenales cartoon suggesting a new campaign ad for Harry Reid.

[steve2470]

1. wth nt

[Davis_X_Machina]

2. Only takes a second...

....Dean/Grayson/Weiner/Feingold/Kucinich/Mosler 2012!

No worries -- by primary time the bumper sticker will fit on an actual bumper.

[derby378]

3. Sounds like he wants a religion-free zone near Ground Zero

Yeah, he'd like to see the mosque moved, but unless I didn't hear that correctly, it sounds like Dean doesn't want any other religious worship centers built in the vicinity, either.

[TroglodyteScholar]

17. It's still a facepalm-worthy position.

WTF is he thinking?

[Blue Owl]

4. OK -- Reid's against it, Scarborough's for it; Dean's against it, Olson's for it...

What the hell kind of weirdness has been uncorked?

[DevonRex]

18. I don't know but my head is starting to hurt again. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. On this Dean is wrong

but you knew that

[DJ13]

6. He's wrong

Feel better?

[babylonsister]

7. ?? About what?

It's news. Get over yourself. I have no bone to pick with Dean, but this is disappointing.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

8. What Dean actually said doesn't belong in the same category as Newt and Quiterella.

Here's the audio:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2GzuAw46Os&feature=player_embedded
He says a lot of the right things but somehow ends up calling for a "compromise location"

[DevonRex]

12. You can't compromise on the constitution. nt

[Douglas Carpenter]

21. EXACTLY!! Standing up against bigotry is not a marginal issue.

Unless he clearly repudiates his position he has lost my support - Forever!

[DevonRex]

26. I was a Deaniac and I have a signed Tshirt to prove it. But this

disappoints me no end. He actually suggests another site for the facility. I'm pissed off.

[AsahinaKimi]

33. I worked on the Dean Campagin .

So like yourself I am also a Deaaniac, and am very disappointed if this is true. It saddens me no end. I thought he would be better then this! Come on, Doc! What were you thinking?

[Crystal Clarity]

52. Me too. Pissed off and sad at the same time.

I don't get it... :-(

[LostinVA]

29. I am a huge supporter of Dean, but this is inexcusable n/t

[DevonRex]

40. Let's all hold off until we find out if the original video is complete. It's from Breitbart.

Now, Greenwald may have heard the original interview with his own ears so it may be valid. But, if he only heard the YouTube source, let's withold judgment until we know it's complete nad unedited.

[janx]

42. Thank you!

:hi:

[AspenRose]

62. Yes

And here's crossing fingers he really didn't say that. *sigh*

[G_j]

45. why not?

it's just a damn piece of paper...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

48. He's the Robert Byrd to their Strom Thurmond.

:eyes:

[cowman]

9. What the hell is going on here?

you have Ted Olsen(R) saying he agrees with Pres. Obama and Howard Dean(D) saying the mosque should be moved. Are the gates of hell opening up or what?

[steve2470]

14. body snatchers I tell ya !

:crazy:

[DevonRex]

10. Wow. That's a surprise. I expected better from Dean. nt

[Douglas Carpenter]

11. SHAME ON HOWARD DEAN!!! very said and very disappointing - but not shocked

At least Ted Olson has come out on the side of reason this time. Shame on Gov. Dean

[Scurrilous]

68. Indeed. n/t

[HereSince1628]

13. Somedays this party is just not as satisfying as it once was...

recently less than ever.

[JI7]

15. Why are you Surprised ?

[bigwillq]

16. I don't agree with Dean

but that's ok.

[madfloridian]

19. He did not say that exactly. It was a thoughtful response.

I don't agree with him, but taking a video edited by Breitbart without listening carefully is dangerous.

Dean spoke of compromise, but moving was only mentioned as a possibility.

[Uncle Joe]

22. You mean, people are still using Breitbart's videos?

:shrug:

[DevonRex]

23. LOL. This is a Greenwald article, posted on Salon, using WABC 77 audio posted on YouTube.

:rofl:

[Ignis]

28. ...Using a YouTube video uploaded by "breitbarttv."

So, it seems a fair concern. :shrug:

That being said, if Dean wasn't Sherroded by Breitbart, he should be soundly criticized.

[DevonRex]

38. I found a link to Think Progress with the same story:

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/08/18/dean-mosque-resistance/

Of course it may all come from the same source. I don't know.

[Ignis]

44. Yeah, it's the same video link there and at Kos.

They're all linking to the same YouTube clip posted by Breitbart.

Color me cautious, but if Breitbart said the sun rises in the East, I'd be out the next morning to check for myself.

(Again, if Dean really said this, he deserves whatever criticism he gets.)

[janx]

34. I'm glad somebody noticed...

;-)

[DevonRex]

39. I found Think Progress but it may all lead back to that Breitbart

video, which may or may not be a good vid. We shall have to wait and see...

[janx]

53. It's a snip from an audio, not even a video, and the article

from Glenn Greenwald distorts the heck out of it.

Professional left...

[madfloridian]

24. Yep, that was done by Breitbart.

And that is really not what Dean said on that audio...though I disagree with him, he called for compromise.

[JI7]

27. But isn't that was Harry Reid said also, that it should move ?

[janx]

59. No, not really. Dean doesn't think it should be built there.

That's a far cry from the headline about "moving the mosque" that hasn't even been built yet, BUT--

I agree with him.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

20. Well, good thing he's out of the DNC before he could bring it down with him.

[marmar]

25. Je suis triste.

:cry:

[gauguin57]

What in the hell?

Why does everyone in the nation feel they need to weigh in on this? Millions are out of work; we need to clean up after natural disasters etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. ETC. !!! ... why are we obsessing about this issue? This is driving me out of my mind.

[TheKentuckian]

49. The thing is when yahoos make an issue of something that is fundamental to our principles

then you are reduced in options to fighting for American rights and values or giving that ground.

Care to explain how giving that ground is an acceptable option?

If not the answer is fucking bigots striking dead in the heart of a crucial piece of what this nation is supposed to be about and there is nothing for it.

[ibegurpard]

30. disappointing

don't know why he felt he had to say anything at all

[janx]

31. Sources, guys...Sources!

Where is this information coming from? How did it get here? Who wrote it? What are his/her qualifications? Has it been peer reviewed? Was it paid for? What are the motivations the writer might have? Biases?

Is it just some blogger with a big mouth and plenty of time?

Oy!

Babylonsis, this is not directed at you--it's directed at all of us.

[marmar]

32. Umm, if you click the link you can hear the interview with Howard Dean.

nt

[janx]

41. But how was it interpreted? n/t

[babylonsister]

36. It's a radio interview; sounds like him, too. nt

[DevonRex]

46. It's probably complete and accurate but if you click watch it on YouTube you'll find out it's from

Breitbart. I don't care much for Greenwald myself but I doubt he'd sell Dean down the river. I'm thinking he probably checked that source and that you're okay on this link and story.

[janx]

55. You don't think he'd sell Dean down the river?

He just did.

[babylonsister]

57. No he didn't. Dean made the remarks; no one forced him to. nt

[janx]

60. That is true.

But Greenwald's interpretation and presentation of Dean's remarks are interesting, aren't they?

[babylonsister]

61. He's not happy, no. And

trust me, I'm no fan of Greenwald, but I'm disappointed, too. Yes, Greenwald gets pretty dramatic and worked up, sometimes leaving me scratching my head. I often don't agree with him, but on this, I understand.

[DevonRex]

63. Once I read the transcript from Think Progress it just sounded worse.

It'd take some heavy-duty editing to make that up. You just can't make paragraphs sound right with editing. It'd be too obvious. One-sentence statements, sure. But not whole paragraphs. It's not good. Not good at all.

[janx]

47. It is Howard Dean, no doubt.

But I'm a skeptic when it comes to media channels and interpretations. Frankly, what he actually said doesn't bother me compared to the sensational spin and channels of the media.

[DevonRex]

35. Link to Think Progress transcript:

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/08/18/dean-mosque-resistance/

[sabrina 1]

37. So disappointing to hear this from Dean. Ted Olson

has come out in favor of it staying right where it is. The world is upside down it seems.

I don't know what his rationale is but he cannot look to the constitution to back him up. Because it doesn't.

[SargeUNN]

43. I am disappointed with him on this

The issue is stupid. They got permission 29-1, they have been there for 25 years, muslims died in the attack, but most importantly the U.S. Constitution allows it, so personal opinion be damned, they are well within the constitution and that means they shouldn't be disallowed.

[janx]

50. Listen to the loaded language...

"Are you calling for the mosque to be moved?"

[TheKentuckian]

51. Disgusting if accurate.

[dkf]

54. He is from New York too.

Maybe he is close to the ground on this.

[SargeUNN]

56. when was he from New York

I know he was governor of vermont, but was he from New York prior to that?

[dkf]

58. Born there from there family there...

His mother lives on Park Avenue so she is very much a New Yorker.

[HuckleB]

64. What does the ground have to do with what's just?

[dkf]

65. Some would wonder why it is just for that mosque to be built there.

Whose judgment rules? No matter whose aims are met there will be some who feel it is not just. It is a no win situation.

[HuckleB]

66. It's a win for the propagandists, and a loss for American integrity.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

73. Why is it NOT just for it to be built there? n/t

Last i checked the US constitution and zoning laws would be the criteria to judge from on this matter, Both unless I'm wrong support the builders right to make the community center.

[JI7]

67. but there are a lot of people in NY who support it, especially Manhattan

so what does that have to do witha nything

[dkf]

69. No NY is against it. Manhattan is slightly for but that is the exception.

[JI7]

70. but it will be in Manhattan wont it ?

[dkf]

72. Actually latest poll shows NYC, suburbs and upstate all negative.

Liberals support but democrats are against.

http://www.siena.edu/uploadedfiles/home/parents_and_community/community_page/sri/sny_poll/SNY0810%20Crosstabs.pdf

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

74. Let's poll them on gay marriage and if they're against it,

we'll just ban it.

Or if we allow it, we won't allow wedding photos in the newspaper because it upsets some people.

[Raineyb]

71. Dean is dead wrong on this. n/t