Question for Duers

[malaise]

How many troops were left in Germany at the end of WW2
How many troops were left in Japan at the end of WW2

What about Korea?

Aren't those bases still there?

Need I go on?

[MH1]

1. I think many DUers would like to close all those bases and bring ALL troops home.

(I am not one of them)

[malaise]

2. I would love to close all the bases but I am prepared to be honest

This is not the first war that has ended with troops and bases remaining

[sandnsea]

10. I would like to

I have absolutely no idea why we think we need to have military bases all over the world. I'd much rather close them and let some of these other countries try to figure out how to pay for their own defense, and defending shipping lanes, etc.

I'm fascinated that you support bases in these other countries, interested in your reasons.

[MH1]

30. In most of the large cases, we are clearly allies

and for the most part our presence is not resented.

Sure, when an idiot Air Force pilot took down a cable car in Italy and killed a bunch of people, some Italians were mighty pissed. Similarly, when a Marine in Okinawa raped a 13 year old, the Okinawans were not happy with US military presence. But of all the bases I visited or was stationed while in the military, the only place where I saw any real resentment was Okinawa. And I blame the lack of troop discipline as shown by a relatively high number of stupid incidents like the afore-mentioned.

In a perfect world no one would need any military, ever, at all. It's not a perfect world. If something crazy happens somewhere and the military is the right response, then having troops stationed all over the world - in countries that don't hate us - is a good way to make sure we can take the necessary action quickly and effectively.

p.s. I was with a military group on a cultural tour of some sort in Korea, and a middle-aged Korean women came up, hugged me, and said "thank you thank you" about four times. Yeah they really hate us there.

[Curmudgeoness]

3. Well, maybe you do need to go on. Do you suggest

we leave troops in Iraq? Or should we close all our bases?

[malaise]

4. You know I'm anti-war

I'd love all the troops to be leaving, but it is dishonest to suggest that the war isn't over because all the troops aren't on the way home. That was not true in Germany, Japan at the end of WW2 or Korea.
The Combat troops have left.

[jillan]

21. A BIG K & R for this thread Malaise!

This is what we do. Pull out the combat troops and leave troops there.

Today is HUGE!

[liberal N proud]

5. This is part of our problem

We leave but not really, ever anywhere.

We always stay behind and the rest of the world is pissed off about it.

[Ineeda]

6. Here's some facts (not venturing an opinion)

As of now, there are approximately 27K American troops in South Korea, 33K in Japan, 57K in Germany, 10K each in Italy, the UK and Kuwait. Lesser numbers in nearly every European country, Australia, Greenland, etc. None of these troops are engaged in combat.

[malaise]

11. And Obama didn't put one of them there

That's the American empire.

[Ineeda]

18. Exactly.

I wonder if Truman or Ike were vilified for leaving troops in Germany and So. Korea. Anybody know?

[malaise]

22. I need that answer

urgently

[TheKentuckian]

7. Do permanent presence in a location we should never have been in and cannot afford to maintain

The surge failed, we fucked it up, and its time to be over instead of pissing more treasure into the sand for decades on end to provide security for extraction companies.

FUCK THAT.

Draw down to a little less than pre-surge levels, re-label, and call it a day is not out of Iraq.

Acceptable level of troops and mercenaries on the US dime ZERO.

[EFerrari]

8. I know you're defending the president's decision to withdraw troops

and not the empire. And given the non-stop attacks on him, I understand that.

ETA: And that's the problem of progressives in America. To defend this president from the insane predations of the right AND to not lose track of the facts.

[malaise]

9. I hate the empire

but the facts are facts and the attacks from fellow Dems make no sense.
Obama promised to end the war in Iraq and he has withdrawn the last of the combat troops. I don't know how anyone expects him to destroy the American empire in two years.

He kept his promise - Bravo Obama.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. +1

Fine point

[EFerrari]

15. If Obama shouldn't be attacked for leaving 50K troops in Iraq

then people who point out that he did shouldn't be attacked, either, for pointing out that the Pentagon rebranded combat troops as "support" personnel.

No one expects him to dismantle the empire, let alone in two years.

He deserves credit for this draw down AND we need to keep track of what is being done in our name no matter what Gates or even Obama calls it.

[provis99]

13. the Iraq war is still going on. World War 2 ended in 1945. See the difference?

[malaise]

14. But American troops are still in Germany

So help me out please.

[Martin Eden]

16. How many troops died in Germany & Japan after the war ...

... fighting a counter-insurgency?

We have even less legitimacy remaining in Iraq.

[malaise]

17. Listen I opposed the illegal invasion and occupation

of Iraq from day one but I am merely pointing out that other wars ended with troops remaining in those countries. Do I agree with the policy no - I am merely stating a fact and wondering why people celebrated the end of WW2 knowing that troops and bases remained. What makes this one any different.

[Martin Eden]

26. "What makes this one any different"

I'm really not sure I understand the point you're trying to make. There are major obvious differences on multiple levels between the wars and the endings of WWII versus the conflict in Iraq which ended ... has it ended? V-E Day & V-J Day were celebrated because the war against Germany and the war against Japan ended on those dates. Fighting had clearly ended with formal surrenders. Troops remained for a number of reasons that were valid at the time (but no longer valid). Our military presence in Iraq was NEVER valid.

HOWEVER -- I do not fault President Obama for his handling of Iraq. He inherited the situation and is implementing a timeline for withdrawal. What remains to be seen is how long and for what purpose the 50,000 "non-comvbat" troops remain.

[malaise]

29. I agree with everyone who states that this was

an illegal war and occupation based on lies.

[deficitjobs]

19. We have 737 bases around the world

Check out Chalmers Johnson's books, particularly Nemesis. Here's an excerpt: http://www.alternet.org/story/47998/

[malaise]

24. Thanks

Welcome to DU :hi:

[bigwillq]

25. Hello

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[LostinVA]

20. Philippines -- since the Spanish-American War

[malaise]

23. Excellent

Thank you.

So where are all those 'support the troops' journalists tonight?
The silence is deafening.

[eridani]

27. Yes. You need to explain why two nations who were fighting to establish themselves as--

--imperial powers are exactly the same as a nation incapable of self-defense that was destroyed by the world's biggest military bully just because there was no military force in the rest of the world capable of stopping the attack.

[malaise]

28. No I don't

I opposed the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq from day one.

[eridani]

31. Imperialism is still not OK. Nor is occupation based on it.

Germany and Japan were defeated empire wannabees. Iraq was nothing of the sort.