Permit denied for Quran burning... Hahaha

[Axle_techie]

Officials in a Florida city have denied a burn permit for a church that is seeking to burn copies of the Quran on Sept. 11.

Interim Fire Chief Gene Prince said Wednesday that the open burning of books is not allowed under Gainesville's burning ordinance.

The Dove World Outreach Center drew international attention after announcing a plan to burn copies of the Islamic holy text on church grounds to mark the ninth anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

Prince says the church will be fined if the burning is held.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h4qiOIPISetSVPDByC90nxCTL0vAD9HM7I1O0

[BlueMTexpat]

1. The mindset of Hitler's brownshirted thugs has been teleported

to Florida.

I wonder how many such will go ahead and burn without even seeking a permit. What books will be next?

[jkshaw]

2. If they do go ahead, I hope the fine will be

HUMONGOUS!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

3. Somewhere, Heinrich Heine is smiling...........

"Where first they burn books, eventually they burn people" -- 1821, said by a character burning a Koran, in the play Almanzor.

[The Northerner]

4. As despicable as their actions are, don't they still have the right to free expression?

I don't support their actions whatsoever but isn't offensive/unpopular expression still considered free expression?

Edit: This type of law sort of reminds of me of the actions that led to the SCOTUS case of Texas v. Johnson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._Johnson

[LAGC]

5. I agree, let them burn the books.

As long as its done in a controlled manner, so as to reduce the risk of fire getting out of control.

Of course, they are painting a big target on their church. A considerable portion of Muslims don't take too kindly to such disrespect of Allah. I could see their church getting fire-bombed in retaliation.

Notice how non-believers are never the ones pulling stunts like this, its always one believer versus another...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. Sure, as long as they don't break any other laws in the process.

I can't go out and express my free speech to haul ass down the freeway at 120 mph and then beat up a midget.

[WCGreen]

11. I betcha could in Texas or Alaska...

:evilgrin:

[Chulanowa]

23. Not if you have out-of-state plates

[Xithras]

29. Bzzt. Constitutional issues trump all local laws.

The USSC has made that clear hundreds of times. Your local community may, as an example, pass a law barring the carrying of signs as a way to crack down on those annoying street-corner advertisers. That's fine. Legally, however, they CANNOT write you a ticket for carrying a sign that says "The Mayor Sucks". Why not? Because Constitutional rights supercede local law, every time.

If book burning is protected speech, local governments cannot use local fire regulations as a way to block it. Federally protected rights to freedom of speech trump local fire codes.

The fire department can write them all the tickets they want, but the first judge who reviews them will instantly toss them on Constitutional grounds.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

30. So I can sacrifice my child to Quetzalcoatl?

[Xithras]

33. No, because that impinges on your childs constitutional rights.

But, on a related note, there was a big fight a number of years ago over a Santeria church that wanted to sacrifice animals. Local leaders in the Florida city cited both animal cruelty laws and animal butchery regulations to block it. The church sued, and won. Local laws and regulations didn't trump their constitutional right to practice their religion how they chose.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. outdoor burning impedes my right to clean air.

"Local leaders in the Florida city cited both animal cruelty laws and animal butchery regulations to block it. The church sued, and won. Local laws and regulations didn't trump their constitutional right to practice their religion how they chose."

Right, and the Santeria people were able to show that their sacrifices were not in violation of animal cruelty or butchery laws. They didn't beat any animals, they didn't cause any animals needless suffering; they killed the animals, but they did so cleanly like a butcher.

If they had mistreated the animals and beaten them and starved them, then it would be a different issue.

[Xithras]

36. You don't have a constitutional right to clean air.

You have a legal right to clean air as passed by congressional and state law, but not a constitutional one. Again, constitutional law trumps all other law in the U.S.

They have a constitutional right to both freedom of expression and freedom of religion. State and federal laws are secondary to constitutional rights.

The fire department cannot use anti-burning regulations as a way to block freedom of expression. They can write a ticket, but it will be tossed by the first judge that looks at it. Burning a religious document is very clearly a political and religious statement, which is protected by the constitution. The government is not permitted to block those their right to freely express their opinions and carry out political and religious activities, unless they can show that doing so presents a clear and immediate danger to the constitutional rights of others.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

38. My kid doesn't have a constitutional right to not be sacrificed to quetzalcoatl.

There are laws saying she had the right not to be sacrificed. Just like there are laws saying I have the right to clean air. These laws are not in the constitution, although they are both constitutional.

"The fire department cannot use anti-burning regulations as a way to block freedom of expression."

Can the local police department use anti-grafitti regulations as a way to block my freedom of expression by spray painting swastikas all over the walls of my local synagogue?

[steve2470]

32. You are correct

These idiots in Gainesville need to go to court and challenge the law, and burn whatever.

I don't like them. I don't agree with them. They have the right. End of story.

[one_voice]

8. Free experssion/speech...

within the law. In Gainesville you're not allowed to do this.

From the OP:

Interim Fire Chief Gene Prince said Wednesday that the open burning of books is not allowed under Gainesville's burning ordinance.

That's not to say they couldn't find a place where burning books is allowed. Maybe they should check around.

[quaker bill]

9. They certainly have the freedom of expression

it is just setting a fire that requires a permit. There are likely a vast number of other things they could do that would not require a permit. Regulating where and when fires can be set in a city is a pretty normal thing.

[BlueMTexpat]

10. Book-burning is only a start.

Read your history. If you've forgotten pre-WWII Germany already, you certainly will not remember the Spanish Inquisition. This symbolism is as dangerous as it gets. This is nothing less than a hate crime. Expression, my foot!

Next it could be the Torah, the Mahabharata, the Book of Buddha, etc.

And then they begin burning the people who practice those religions.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Axle_techie]

19. It probably would have been easier to burn the flag, sadly

it has been labeled as an act of freedom of speech...

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

31. Don't you think the exact same thing would have happened? i.e., no permit? -nt

[Axle_techie]

39. Actually, no

I am pretty sure the people who were prosecuted for burning the flag didn't apply for a permit first the first time, and courts rulings set precedence in future cases.

[BlueMTexpat]

25. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Both religious groups in question have a history of bloodshed. In that context, this is indeed a hate crime.

[TexanRudeBoy]

26. Precisely

It doesn't matter how vile, bigoted, insensitive free speech actions are they are 100% protected and the states have no right to deny them to whatever nutjobs want to exercise them.

[Scurrilous]

7. Alas.

:P

[lumberjack_jeff]

12. *facepalm*

No garment-rending? No "religious liberty is the foundation of our country"?

Shouldn't the President comment on this even though it's Gainsville's problem?

[steve2470]

20. No one said they don't have the right to burn the books...

If they disagree with the city of Gainesville, they can go to court and challenge the law. They might win. However, the city has a legitimate interest in controlling fire activity.

Frankly, I don't really care what they do. However: 1) they might get some serious blowback from furious Muslims; 2) they might end up accidentally setting something else on fire and 3) they just look like Neo-Nazis doing this.

I'm not going to give them any sympathy.

[TexanRudeBoy]

27. "I'm not going to give them any sympathy"

You can't pick and choose when to protect free speech. It must be protected equally for everyone by everyone else. Just remember there may be a time when its your speech that's in need of protecting.

[steve2470]

28. I stand by my remark that the city has a legitimate fire interest

I support the right of the Nazis to burn whatever, also. However, the Nazis and these people need to obey the law, or go to court to challenge it, or just do the burning and pay their fine.

I don't care what they do, but I still have no sympathy for them. They are just being hatemongers.

[mmonk]

13. I guess then that would be a burn out?

[steve2470]

15. hm.... reminds me of something.....

[mmonk]

16. That's different, they were burning books written by authors of

a particular faith.........oh wait

[aquart]

17. Perfect.

Sometimes the rule of law is simply elegant.

[Chulanowa]

18. The best part...

Is that they were foiled by simple bureaucracy.

"Newp. Can't have an open fire in August. Grass is too dry."
"But.. .it's the Koran!"
"The kor-whut? Look, I don't care what kinda crazy barbeque you folks are havin', the grass is too dry. No burn permits."
"*Sputter*"

[Caliman73]

21. True.

Not to give the idiots any other ideas but there are more ways to desecrate another religion's sacred text. Be creative hater church!!

[Chulanowa]

22. What amazes me is that they think God cares

If such a being exists, right now he's going "I created the motherfucking universe, you think I care if you burn some books? You chumps don't even know how your own endocrine system works, and you're going to do this? Sheesh, I'm glad you're not part of my Really Big Plan..."

[malaise]

24. I suggest they burn the church's Dove World Outreach Center sign

and replace it with Stupid Racist Hawks world Outreach Center for Ignorance and Intolerance. :puke:

[NYC Liberal]

35. Priest who taught religion class in my Catholic HS took the Bible and threw it across the room

at the wall. "It's just a book, same as any other. Paper, and ink. It's the words inside that matter."

These idiots are just bigots. If they want to have their book burning and expose themselves for what they are, let them go for it. 'Course, you still have to follow the fire ordinances!

[11 Bravo]

37. They opted for burning as opposed to pissing on the Koran because ...

the latter would lead to the exposure of their teeny little dicks.