What do the people who are against the mosque..

[butterfly77]

think will happen because the building is being renovated into a community center and in that spot? And whatever they feel the sensitivity of the family members is one thing but there seems to be something else.

Is it because they call it a mosque? Is the distance a factor since there is a mosque 4 blocks down the street? If there sensitivity because they are muslims? Are they not sensitive to the strip clubs and bars near by..

[Patsy Stone]

1. They don't think.

That's the problem. They fear and they hate. Just like they've been convinced to do.

[aquart]

3. Do not speak for me.

[butterfly77]

6. Can you tell me...

what are the SENSITIVITIES..

[aquart]

9. I have no idea what you mean by that silly word.

I don't get hives from it. Just nausea.

[butterfly77]

14. Oh,you can explain it..

because it makes no sense,do you want to remove the mosque down the street too..

[Patsy Stone]

13. I was asked for my opinion and I gave it.

No one is speaking for you.

[Forkboy]

29. Your endless bigotry speaks for itself, don't worry.

[Patsy Stone]

10. wrong place n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. They'll think "there goes the neighborhood."

Same thing that happens when a black family moves into a white neighborhood.

It's the multiculturalism itself that offends these nuts.

[mzteris]

4. but strippers are fine, I guess. n/t

[butterfly77]

8. But, there are..

muslims and many other cultures and races already there just like in the WTC.

[Skink]

5. America stands for religious tolerance.

[aquart]

16. Yeah, but we wouldn't let Utah join the Union till it abandoned polygamy.

We routinely arrest voodoo practitioners for killing animals in their rituals.

So it seems our national tolerance is limited by our cultural disgust.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. What year is this?

Oh never mind... amazing...

Serious, amazing...

Today it is the Cordoba House, which is NOT a mosque by the way... tomorrow might be YOUR religion. You really want to go there? If nothing else be selfish... that poem, they first came... applies here.

[Withywindle]

44. ahem, "voodoo"?

do you know ANYTHING about African-New World syncretic religions? For real?

Voudoun? Santeria? Lukumi? Candomble? Umbanda? Palo? Hoodoo? Brujeria?

Yes, sometimes there is animal sacrifice involved in some groups (not all)--which is way more humane, for the most part, than what happens in slaughterhouses.

Can you tell me anything about the commonalities of those religions and differences between them?

Go ahead. Post. Show your work. I'll even give you 20 minutes to Google because I'm a good sport.

The reason why I think belaboring this point is relevant is because I think you have only a National-Inquirer-level knowledge of these religions...and only a Fox News level knowledge of Islam, which is just as bad.

[aquart]

7. What I think?

I'm skeaved. Just skeaved. Rachel Maddow says there is no constitutional protection against feeling the "oog" and she's right.

But a building extolling the wonderfulness of Islamic culture two blocks from Ground Zero? In a space that belonged to a building where every job was lost on that day? It feels icky. It feels rub your face in it icky.

Now twist that any way you want. The hysteria here is over the top and the right wing is dancing with it.

It's how I feel and you said you wanted to know instead of simply assume. Now you know.

[butterfly77]

11. What about it feels icky..

does the mosque down the street make you feel icky too, should it be removed?I don't get the part about jobs being lost...

[aquart]

19. I'm sorry you don't see permanent job loss as a tragedy.

It seems that I do.

As I feel strongly that the 9/11 memorial museum should contain prayer space for every religion that lost someone that day, that necessarily includes space for Muslim worship.

The downtown mosques that all of you have seized on so vigorously mean nothing to me. They belong to the cacaphony of religions that are represented in this city. They cater to their faithful. Their goal isn't to convince the rest of the world.

[butterfly77]

20. What does job loss have to do..

with it,won't they be creating jobs at the center. How in the hell do you know what I feel about job loss! Well this one of the ALL OF YOU thinks that you are full of it!

[Bluerthanblue]

24. ....."permanent job loss as a tragedy"....

...I've heard a LOT of weird excuses used for opposing this building, but I have to say yours takes the cake.

Have you read this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8977878

it's quite interesting.

:hi:

[Withywindle]

43. I DO see permanent job loss as a tragedy.

And I see a lot of empty buildings in Lower Manhattan. I don't like that. It used to be a VERY vital and high-status area. Now I just see a place where a lot of cowards make excuses for not wanting to be there.

The SUFI (read up on Sufism, please, educate yourself) imam in charge of this project wants to build a community center that's open to everyone--in a building that has been abandoned ever since it was damaged almost 10 years ago.

I do not support keeping Lower Manhattan as a blighted empty tomb. I support the area being revitalized. Seems to me that Cordoba House is a pretty good neighbor for the area--it will bring people in and offer up positive participation. The idea that nothing the least bit controversial can ever be built anywhere near Hallowed Ground...well, that's part of the reason why the actual World Trade Center footprints are still just a hole in the ground almost a decade later--and THAT is a huge insult to the people lost there, who were for the most part ambitious people who believed in NYC's intense energy born out of diversity.

Amazingly enough, some of the victims were Muslim too. 10% of the people who died that day were not American, for that matter. 90 different countries lost citizens that day.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. "It feels rub your face in it icky"

"It feels shove it down our throats icky."

"It feels shove it down our throats with those big hot sweating arab falafels icky."

[mstinamotorcity]

28. And if you feel that

way about one ethinc culture,what do you say about others? Your ignorancce has shown itself.

[butterfly77]

40. Evidently,the poster..

has a superiority complex...

[Raineyb]

17. And your explanation still sounds like bigotry. Looks like the initial reply post was correct. n/t

[Forkboy]

30. With you, I already knew.

Your bigotry has shined through on this, and other issues, long before this.

[butterfly77]

31. So what you are telling us is that...

if there is a mosque put there we will see another terrorists attack,I heard this from a rightwinger earlier so,then shouldn't there be attacks all over the country by now?

[LanternWaste]

32. I imagine many people believe that

I imagine many people believe that porn or media-violence is also "icky." One may even say, "It feels rub your face in it icky..." And extolling the wonderfulness of porn and televised violence...? Well, that certainly is "icky." Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

I would imagine intellectual consistency may compel an individual to take the same side on both issues, on an academic level if nothing else.

[pintobean]

34. bigotry

accusations are intellectually lazy. It's amazing how many of the 'smart' people use it as an argument.

[Winterblues]

36. What exactly is intellectually lazy about calling someone a bigot when they

so obviously are one? It is not an argument it is just a fact...There is no reason other than bigotry to oppose a cultural center two and a half blocks away from where the buildings fell..I hear no one opposing the mosque in the Pentagon just eighty feet from where the plane struck..

[pintobean]

38. Thank you. n/t

[Caliman73]

39. Actually, what is intellectually lazy is when someone states something with no support.

It may be true that labeling someone a bigot and walking away might be intellectually lazy, but no more than making the argument you state without supplying anything substantive.

The overall bigotry of the anti-Cordoba Center argument is that it generalizes the acts of people who were members of a tiny radical fringe, and makes representatives of a much larger, unrelated group identify with and answer for that tiny radical group. It is the exact same bigotry that compels Black people to represent their race and for individual women to speak on behalf of all women. The American citizens who want to build a cultural center are being linked to foreign terrorists. It is like Japanese Americans in the 40's being placed in internment camps because they were thought to be loyal to Japan, or like Americans citizens of Mexican ancestry in the 20's, 30's, and 40's being "repatriated" to Mexico because they shared features with undocumented immigrants.

[Alameda]

37. I'm from NYC, lost friends, & am Muslim...& want to know why

you feel icky? I used to go to the downtown mosques, which were often overflowing. As I'm a female, does it interest you to know that Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf who you are about made females comfortable? We were not shut up in some obscure room, but were able to see, speak, ask questions. Perhaps you might actually like to go and ask questions regarding Islam yourself.

I have since relocated from downtown NY, to CA, but 911 is very personal to me. I lost a number of friends and very well could have perished in it myself. The attack on the WTC had nothing to do with Islam, in fact, Muslims are the ones who have suffered more losses from it than any other group of people.

[Withywindle]

45. You are allowed to feel your "oog factor"

And the rest of us are allowed to point out just how pathetic and ignorant that is, and how completely worthless we think is is as a measure of who is allowed to build what where.

Your "ick factor" regarding Muslims deserves exactly the same level of respect merited to straight RW men who talk about the "ick factor" regarding marriage equality--which is to say, none whatsoever.

[doc03]

15. It's just another Republican BS argument, they know damn

well they have the Constitutional right to built it there. There is no way the President can stop them, he took an oath to obey and defend the Constitution. If he would say they shouldn't build it there the Republicans would want to impeach him for violating the Constitution.

[TheKentuckian]

18. You know that's right. The millisecond he went with them they'd nail him to the cross

The only way to deal with the Reich is to kick them in the groin and the grill at least your foot falls off.

[butterfly77]

21. Plus...

he taught the constitution for 10 years and they will soon begin with the help of the media to paint him as a muslim as we now see.

Also what if he was a muslim don't we have muslims all over the country and have for decades these people are so damn ignorant..

[mstinamotorcity]

22. It seems to me that

I wonder how sensitive they really want us to be. I mean what is sensitive enough for people? Is losing 2000 coalition forces in Afghanistan sensitive enough? Is 319 wounded sensitive enough? Is 176 children killed sensitive enough? Is 389 civilian deaths sensitive enough? Is almost ten years of war sensitive enough? Is 547 billion dollars a year sensitive enough? I think America has been extremely sensitive. We used our most valuable resources to fight what happened on 9/11. There were people from all walks of life who suffered on that day. I think a community center would be nice. Because from what I can read about 0/11 all of the hijackers were Saudis or did I miss something? When you uphold civil rights everyone gains the a foothold on equality.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1303963/Obamas-War-Same-number-US-troops-die-Afghanistan-Bush-years.html

[butterfly77]

23. No, only..

Americans have SENSITIVITIES...or some would like us to think that.

[mstinamotorcity]

25. I'm just wondering

how sensitive do we need to be. It seems blood, sweat, and tears are not enough.

[butterfly77]

27. Can't seem to get an answer...

huh,I'm still waiting...

[name not needed]

26. Fuck their sensitivities. If they don't like it, they can stay the hell out of that neighborhood.

[FSogol]

35. Exactly, NYC is probably the most diverse place on Earth. n/t

[Motown_Johnny]

41. they think radical islamics will come there to worship the sacrifice of the hijackers

[butterfly77]

42. How do they know if it isn't happening..

anyway,anywhere in this country and how will this stop them from worshipping anyhow..