Yes, It is actually a mosque

[Little Star]

Right from the official Park51 organizations web site, read for yourself:

Facilities
Park51 will grow into a world-class community center, planned to include the following facilities:
outstanding recreation spaces and fitness facilities (swimming pool, gym, basketball court)
a 500-seat auditorium
a restaurant and culinary school
cultural amenities including exhibitions
education programs
a library, reading room and art studios
childcare services
a mosque, intended to be run separately from Park51 but open to and accessible to all members, visitors and our New York community
a September 11th memorial and quiet contemplation space, open to all.
http://www.park51.org/facilities.htm


I just want people to be honest. It is an actual mosque that is housed with-in Park51 but separate from it.
Please stop saying it is not a mosque!

[saltpoint]

1. No sale. Its function is community-based predicated

on community-building.

And in any event it doesn't matter what it is. It could be a bowling alley. The Constitutional right to build it and operate it is sanctioned, and clearly so.

There's a mosque inside the Pentagon. Should we call the Pentagon a mosque?

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/08/05/muslims_infiltrate_pentagon

And according to Wikipedia:

- - -

A mosque is a place of worship for followers of Islam. Muslims often refer to the mosque by its Arabic name masjid<1> (Arabic: مسجد‎ — Arabic pronunciation: <ˈmæsdʒɪd> (pl. masājid, Arabic: مساجد‎ — ), which literally means a place of prostration. The word "mosque" in English refers to all types of buildings dedicated for Islamic worship although there is a distinction in Arabic between the smaller, masjids dedicated for daily five prayers and the larger masajid where the daily five prayers and the Friday congregation sermons are held (مسجد جامع, masjid jāmi‘), which is attended by more people and play more roles such as teaching Qur'an.

The mosque serves as a place where Muslims can come together for salat (prayer) (Arabic: صلاة‎, ṣalāt) as well as a center for information, education, and dispute settlement. The Imam leads the prayer.

They have developed significantly from the open-air spaces that were the Quba Mosque and Al-Masjid al-Nabawi in the 7th century. Many mosques have elaborate domes, minarets, and prayer halls. Mosques originated on the Arabian Peninsula, but are now found in all inhabited continents.

- - -

[JonLP24]

2. I'll call it a restaurant and culinary school

Is that ok with you?

[MrScorpio]

17. And I'll call it a library...

[malaise]

3. Yes it's also their first amendment right n/t

[marmar]

4. Sounds like a pretty awesome place from your list of amenities.....

...... So what's the real motivation for your post?

[Little Star]

5. My motivation is to stop DU from looking like liars.

If the actual community center calls it "a mosque that is intended to be run separately from Park51", why do some DUers insist that they are not telling the truth?

They have the right to have a mosque and they are honest about it. Why do we here on DU need to color the facts?

[JonLP24]

7. It is one facility that is part of the community center

Like the culinary school.

Unless you can point to a specific post I don't think anyone here is denying that there is a mosque alongside the many facilities the community center has. Calling the whole damn thing a mosque implies that is all they are building when it is among the many things the community center provides.

[Little Star]

10. I never called the whole thing a mosque but

there is a actual mosque housed with in the building that is intended to be run separately from the rest of Park51.
Get the word "SEPARATE" from the other things in the community center.

Why is it so bad for DU to call the mosque what it is? That is the part I don't get. It is their first amendment right and DU should be sticking up for that with out trying to pretend there is no mosque.

[JonLP24]

16. I know what seperate means

It is still part of the community center which is what DUers are calling it. A community center.

[deutsey]

6. Well, to split hairs, the mosque is only one facility within the larger community center

and it will apparently be run separately from Park51.

Also, since Sufis are apparently organizing this center, it's no surprise that this mosque will be open to everyone.

[saltpoint]

8. Some people alphabetize the food in their pantries.

Who knows why.

[Javaman]

38. ...

:spray:

[iamthebandfanman]

9. Why this matters to anyone on DU ill never understand

i really thought DU was better than this crap.


I knew us pinkos aired on the side of being PC sometimes but damn ya'll..

not when it comes to freedom.


this isnt going to hurt a damn soul, infact it will probably promote healing in those who still have that bitter taste of hatred in their mouths from that tragic day...

once its there and nothing changes in the area, you will all see how stupid this really was

[saltpoint]

11. I tried to make a sentence out of the letters in your

subject line, but all the farther I got was:

'Yolanda, echoing Seinfeld, insisted that idiots so affiliated consider the underwear alternatives Luke loves....'

[KharmaTrain]

12. My Nearby JCC Has A Sanctuary In It...

and it's still called a Jewish Community Center. The nearby Lutheran Hospital has a chapel in it, but it's still called a Hospital.

While there may be a Mosque or prayer area inside, it's prime function is to be a cultural center with a wide variety of services not only to the Islamic community but to the general public.

The issue isn't a Mosque...it's more racial hatred eminating from Faux Noise and its right wing hate radio toadies...and the gullible and complicit corporate media that spreads the dogwhistles of intolerance.

[deutsey]

18. Excellent n/t

[H2O Man]

13. And?

[saltpoint]

14. So a logical follow-up question is, When splitting

hairs to absolutely no reasonable outcome or practical purpose, what instrument is used?

[saltpoint]

15. There are news stands in Grand Central Station, which

in the opinion of this observer wholly distract commuters from boarding the trains.

I just don't see how people can be expected to concentrate on which train to catch when the news stand vendor essentially exists to distract them into buying a magazine or a copy of the TIMES or the DAILY NEWS.

It isn't right.

[LynneSin]

22. There is a coffee stand in my work office so I guess I could say I work at a Coffee Shop

:eyes:

[saltpoint]

24. LOL.

:hi:

[LynneSin]

46. I can also see New Jersey from my office window - so I plan to run for Governor in 2013

:woohoo:

[saltpoint]

53. LynneSin, you've got my vote, then.

No question!

[saltpoint]

19. Just for the sake of argument, let's say a group of

kids decides one summer's Saturday afternoon to put up a lemonade stand out on the sidewalk.

Parents help them set up the table and make the lemonade and the sign that says 'Lemonade for Sale.'

But then one of their parents suggests they also sell oatmeal-raisin cookies as well, and throws a tin of cookies in the oven to prepare for their sale later.

At what point are these kids OBLIGATED to say it is BOTH a lemonade sale AND an oatmeal cookie sale? Huh?

And who decides?

These are crucial distinctions. If the kids also offer oatmeal-raisin cookies but only have the 'Lemonade for Sale' sign on their table, they are LIARS.

And may they rot in hell for it.

[Javaman]

39. The oatmeal-raisin lobbyist of America are not amused. nt

[saltpoint]

42. LOL.

This is politics, dammit. Nobody ever promised the oatmeal-raisin lobbyists a rose garden!

[Sea Witch]

20. Why is the media not refering to it as a Restraurant then? Or a culinary school?

It's not a mosque, there is a small mosque within the building. The building is a community center.

[Little Star]

28. I don't know why the media does or does not do anything but

On the Park51 website the only thing they specify as being "separate" from the community center is the mosque. I'll take their word for it, unlike those here on DU, who insist different than what they state. Also, I was under the impression that the mosque was not all that small do you have a link that concludes it as a small mosque? I'm sure there are larger mosques but do you think this is small compared to an average mosque? I have no idea about the size of an average mosque so this is just a question because I am wondering how you came to your conclusion.

[LynneSin]

21. So according to your strange reasoning I should call it an Auditorium too

And a Fitness facilities
And a Culinary School
and an Exhibition
and an Educational Center
And a Library
And a Reading Room
And an Art Studio
And a Childcare Service

[Little Star]

32. It is not my reasoning. It is from the official website where

they state the mosque is intended to be separate from the rest of the community center. Do you disagree with them?

It seems all the other stuff is considered part of the community center.

What is wrong with having an actual mosque near ground zero? Why is everyone trying so hard to deny there is an actual mosque planned? Why not argue for the mosque instead of trying to deny there will be one?

[LynneSin]

43. Because we are looking at it as the collective whole not the individual parts

and no one has denied there is a mosque in the building. But from the actual description it seems such a minor part of the overall building.

[Sheepshank]

50. Separate is qualified

"intended to be run separately" From your OP

I have not seen any schematics...I read that the Mosque is to be run separatly...not necessarily housed separately in a separate structure. Can anyone confirm? Even so, so what? If it is a separate structure on the campus, then we must admit that one building, one activity that describes the entire campus? I don't think so. No one I know has denied that there with be a place of worship included as part of the campus of activites.

Which if you think about it, the statement "intended to be run separately" makes perfect sense. The chef from the culinary school, or the stacker from the library, or the grounds maintenance crew are unlikely to be the best theological teachers, and may be their prayer voices suck.

[el_bryanto]

23. That's a bit like saying the Museum of Modern Art is a place that serves sandwiches

Bryant

[EstimatedProphet]

25. So?

So there's a mosque there. Every major hospital in this country has a chapel - are they all churches now?

[mmonk]

26. We know there is a mosque in the proposed facility.

Are you trying to make a point?

[saltpoint]

27. There's a cat in the window. There's a mosque in the

Community Center. There's a sunglass kiosk at the mall. There are deer in the back yard.

If there are sea gulls at the beach we don't stop calling the Atlantic an ocean.

My grandparents played poker but didn't call their home a casino.

[xchrom]

29. With all the different things going on there - you'ld think

It was a community center.

[TheKentuckian]

30. I don't care if it Six Flags over Mohammad

[saltpoint]

35. LOL!

"Six Flags Over Mohammad" LOL.

'Wul hell. If they got a good roller coaster, I'll pay full price!'

[Jennicut]

36. That needs to be built, just to see the ignorant idiot's heads explode.

[Fuzz]

31. There's a bathroom in my house, so I guess my house is a place to shit.

I fucking hate religion.

[peace13]

33. The point is that it doesn't matter!

Let's take a look at the other churches in the area. Do they need to be bulldozed if these streets of New York are not free to religious organizations. Why is this so hard to understand? What other religious organization would be scrutinized for building in this neighborhood. Walk gently on your religious freedoms because they will come for yours next!

[slackmaster]

34. Thanks for making an honest effort to bring some honesty into the discussion

Honestly, I'm just as uncertain about what's really going on as ever.

[peace13]

37. The Baptist Church in my neighborhood took some of the best farmland in the county..

..to build their house of worship. After that they added a SCHOOL and now a day care and playgrounds! I wish they would have shown me the plan first because quite frankly, I like corn fields better! My zoning commissioner would tell me to buy the land or be quite about it as a religious building is legal on that parcel. I think that is good advice here as well. Why do Americans think that they can decide which religions get religious freedom. What's next...witch burning?

[slackmaster]

40. Well, the Catholics took my family's farmland in Germany

I don't know what they did with it, but it will never be mine.

[uncommon]

41. Most hospitals have chapels in them - but hospitals are not chapels.

I think this is the point. The whole place is not a mosque - it contains one.

[Little Star]

44. Yes. The whole place is not a mosque nor is the whole place a

community center. There are two things (a community center and a mosque) housed within the same building but they are separate. Why keep calling the mosque part of the community center when it is clear the mosque is separate?

[uncommon]

45. If it's separate, then it's separate.

Of course, seeing that it wouldn't bother me if Ground Zero itself were a mosque, it's all irrelevant to me.

[Oilwellian]

47. Good grief

Then that means my local hospital is actually a church because it has a chapel in it. Am I lying? :eyes:

[Iggo]

48. It is not a mosque.

[baldguy]

49. If a YMCA has chapel in it, does that make it a church?

No.

[harun]

51. -1, for a complete lack or reason, logic and brain.

[DevonRex]

52. About that mosque:

"Future plans for Park51 include a world-class facility which will house a mosque. Intended to operate as a separate 501(c)(3), the mosque will be a welcoming prayer space accessible to Park51 members as well as all New Yorkers, but will be independently run."

http://www.park51.org/programs.htm

You do know that Muslims have to pray at certain times of the day, right? Members of the community center will need a space to do that.