Death of the 'McMansion': Era of Huge Homes Is Over

[RamboLiberal]

They’ve been called McMansions, Starter Castles, Garage Mahals and Faux Chateaus but here’s the latest thing you can call them — History.

In the past few years, there have been an increasing number of references made to the “McMansion glut” and the “McMansion backlash,” as more towns pass ordinances against garishly large homes, which are generally over 3,000 square feet and built very close together.

What sets a McMansion apart from a regular mansion, according to Wikipedia, are a few characteristics: They’re tacky, they lack a definitive style and they have a “displeasingly jumbled appearance.”

Well, count 2010 as the year the last nail was hammered into the McCoffin: In its latest report on home-buying trends, real-estate site Trulia declares: “The McMansion Era Is Over.”

http://www.cnbc.com/id/38757287



Good. Fits in with the death of the Hummer!

[JuniperLea]

1. Is grave dancing allowed in this thread?

Cuz I feel a little tapdance coming on...

[RamboLiberal]

3. Go for it - I'm dancing myself

[NC_Nurse]

4. Me too. Halellujah!

[Whisp]

18. hellll yeah!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NqD3DT3uuk

David Bowie

McMansions are an eyesore! Pathetic display of pretend upper crusting. feh. meanwhile so many of those who pay so much for that outter shell have to eat macaroni.

[JuniperLea]

29. Bowie!

Love the red shoes... great tune... uh oh... earworm! haha!

One of my RW cousins in Riverside had her McMansion foreclosed... she built it from scratch... hideous. And she hung big antlers all over the giant walls... ew... She never liked Bowie either... she was into disco roller skating.

[femrap]

128. on the floor

since they have no furniture.

Maybe we could turn them into apartments or a community living homes for retirees or single mothers.

I was in one of them and the basement was bigger than my apartment...had a full bath and kitchen. I would have gladly lived there.

[dixiegrrrrl]

35. Around the crowded SF Bay area, they were serious eyesores when built in

older communities, crowding out sunlight and views from the original houses.

[JuniperLea]

44. I was just there in January...

I remember taking offense to the "bastardization" of the Victorians in the Haight... so many have been restored now! I love that neighborhood now.

I did see some blah concrete blocks that barely looked like houses in other areas... pretty icky.

[Gormy Cuss]

119. They also tend to be faux Spanish colonials, which are more of a SoCal thing

and they stick out like sore thumbs in the SF Bay area. This was the land of wooden shingle roofs on California ranches.

[femrap]

129. I can't believe they allowed this

in SF. I left in 1993...I remember that high rises weren't allowed due to blocking views.

I guess every place changed.

[Mariana]

139. It's often not too hard to buy enough of a city council

and/or enough members of a planning commission to grant your permits to build whatever the hell you want, if you've got the bucks. Also, the prospect of increased property tax revenue can be extremely tempting.

[femrap]

142. I guess I have my memory

of San Fran as one that the hands weren't greased as easily as other places....but I guess the Greed Trend struck every city of the country.

Thanks for the explanation...it makes perfect sense. Money Rules.

[JuniperLea]

2. There are so many of these hideous monstrosities in my neighborhood...

:puke:

Truly vulgar. Absolutely tasteless.

[JoePhilly]

25. But yours is nice??

[JuniperLea]

27. I don't have a McMansion...

I have a humble little Spanish style, tile roof, 1167 sq ft, split level, 3 bed, 2 bath townhouse... it could fit in the garage of the McMansions around here.

[JoePhilly]

31. You probably could have cleaned up selling your plot ...

Actually, you might still clean up as I think about it.

Your house is probably on the low end. And the McMansions may have pulled your equity up.

What I find interesting in this "joy" over the McCmansion discussion is that as a kid I lived in a Philadelphia row home. Not enough bed rooms for all of us, one bathroom, no garage, it sucked. And talk about ugly!! Row homes are bolted together. They are cookie cutter. No yard at all. One night the idiot next door fell asleep smoking and almost burned my house down along with his.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, I knew wanted to be able to get to the point where they had a bedroom for each kid, and a one or two car garage.

So now I hear folks talk about the McMansions being "ugly" ... but they are no uglier than the row home I grew up in. Not even close.

I guess my point is that I'm not thrilled that anyone is losing their home. Row home, 1800ft single, 3000ft single. Most of the McMansions are built far from where people work. That's what brought their initial cost down.

I take no joy in any of this.

[JuniperLea]

33. My townhouse is very much like a row house...

I'm on the end, so I only share one wall.

Unfortunately, the McMansions are horrible to heat, cool, clean, etc., and they sit on the market longer than anything else around. My mortgage is underwater by 50%, and I bought before the boom. They aren't helping prices around here at all. There's one McMansion around the corner from me that has been on the market for over five years! Ridiculous. They are ugly as sin.

I grew up with six people in a two bedroom, one bath house that was built in 1928. Four of us kids in one bedroom, my parents in the other. It sat on a quarter acre... I spent a lot of time outside.

I think greedy is what greedy gets. McMansions were born out of greed, no question. Sort of like the people who lost millions to Madoff... he was offering huge returns, far better than market averages... people were greedy and didn't do due dilligence... they pretty much got what they asked for.

But there are a lot of people just like me... sitting in a deteriorating neighborhood, with a home they can't sell... if I short-sell, I loose my awesome credit rating. If I negotiate a lower principle, ditto. I did nothing wrong.

[krabigirl]

58. Many McMansion owners didn't do anything wrong, either.

[JVS]

71. They were guilty

of bad taste!

[JuniperLea]

112. There's that...

But more importantly, knowingly or not, building those monstrosities is very bad for neighborhoods. It's ridiculous to see 5000 sq ft homes built next door to 800 sq ft homes... they do indeed stick out like sore thumbs. Tres gauche.

[JuniperLea]

111. Perhaps not knowingly...

But building those things hurt neighborhoods very badly.

It's like my mom says about smoking in the 60's... "It wasn't bad for you back then." Perspective is everything.

[dixiegrrrrl]

106. You helped me realize something.

You mentioned growing up in a small house and spending a lot of time outside.
I just realized that is probably why I was either out of the house or holed up in a bedroom reading most of the time. 4 kids, very small houses. Really no place to be other than sitting in front of the tv or
in the kitchen. So we kids were outside a lot.In a very rainy climate.

Today one hears complaints that kids are not outside very much. bigger houses, more room?

[JuniperLea]

110. Wow! I think you really hit on something there!

More room, more privacy... and no doubt more video games and computers... all in separate rooms so no one has to deal with anyone else in the house.

I had a tree house in a giant avocado tree... and my friend had a tree house in a giant empty lot behind her house. When we weren't riding bikes, we were daydreaming in the trees:)

Kids would be so much better off outside... but there are bad people out there these days, donchano. Two little girls went missing in Los Angeles last night... it's gotta be hard for parents these days. I'm glad mine are all grown up.

[JoePhilly]

122. Take your thought a step further ....

I grew up in a Philly row home. The down side was that they are ugly and you have no space. We had one full bathroom. My bedroom was about 10x7.

The upside, was that about 100 kids lived on my block.

When my wife and I were looking for our current home, we could have picked a single home way out by itself, land, large house, so on ... or we could pick a good sized home on a 1/4 acre lot, near other homes of similar lot size and house size.

We picked the later because it gave us the best of both, more space, and also lots of kids very close by.

Now, my house isn't huge, but its a good size, about 3000 sq feet. And it has a basement (something even a row home had when I was a kid).

But it is also close enough to our neighbors so the neighborhood kids can play with each other safely.

When I lived in a row home, the houses BEHIND my house shared a common back drive-way with the houses on my side of the street.

My current house backs up to other houses, and our yards all connect ... giving the kids a large area to play. Plus trees, something my row home never had.

My neighbors and I often talk from deck to deck, much like my parents did when we lived in that row home. We grill out, with folks running home to "get something" and then returning quickly ... as my family did way back when.

[JuniperLea]

123. Good call...

Yes, you really do have to weigh all the options, and decide what your priorities are.

For what I pay monthly for my little townhouse, I could have three times the space in Riverside or the northern desert communities... but I would spend four hours or more a day on the freeways. And the heat is stifling! I'll stay in the coastal zone and enjoy the morning marine layer... and a 40 minute commute to downtown Los Angeles!

You can pay with time, with money, with conveniences, or with the welfare of your children.

Looks like we both made good decisions:)

[JoePhilly]

130. Thanks for taking my comment in the spirit it was intended.

Lately on DU, I worry that if I try to discuss the kinds of nuance included in some topic ... I will be attacked for daring to do so.

SO thanks!!

[JuniperLea]

133. My pleasure!

I feel the same way.

This place used to be all about the open and honest discussion. I hope we get back to it someday. I think this little convo sets a good example. Thanks for letting me be a part of it.

[Lorien]

34. Mine too. Squeezed in between rows of small 1920's craftsman bungalows

they build them right up against the property line and they look COMPLETELY out of place here. Just absurd! There are still a bunch of them (spec homes) that have been vacant for nearly two years now. I hate the damn things!

[zonkers]

99. Sounds like Los Angeles.

[JuniperLea]

126. What a shame...

I love 1920's craftsman bungalows! My father had one in Long Beach, CA, for many years.

I've built home additions before... but never to that degree!

[chrisa]

103. "Truly vulgar. Absolutely tasteless."

I always called them light blue boxes, and wondered how anybody could live in a neighborhood where every house is a carbon copy of each other, sometimes even down to the color. (But not style, I don't consider 'box' a style) :puke:

[tridim]

5. Let's start dividing them up into duplexes

We can probably fit 4 units into each house.

As a former architect this is great news. I orginally got out of architecture because I hated the McBuildings I was forced to "design". It was depressing.

[JuniperLea]

7. I used to hate that idea...

So many gorgeous Victorian homes in my neighborhood were cut up that way, "bastardized" is how I referred to it... but in this case, I say BRILLIANT IDEA!

There's one McMansion a block from my house that is now being used by Buddhist monks... I kind of like that.

[tridim]

15. I think I just got an idea for a new business.

Tear em down, but leave the "shell" intact, add three doors, remodel the interior AND exterior. No more McMansion.

Zoning would be the problem. I'm 100% certain these homes are zoned as single-family, and the neighbors probably want it to stay that way.

Dammit I need a job, wish I had some access to capital so I could pursue my ideas.

[JuniperLea]

23. "wish I had some access to capital so I could pursue my ideas"

That's the story of my life... I feel your pain. I have a job, but no capital... life's been rough.

[crazyjoe]

64. why don't you go back to being an architect ?

[tridim]

74. I've been trying to get back in, but I haven't practiced since 1995.

It's tough, especially right now.

[RamboLiberal]

9. Make sure you read the 2nd page of the OP article

That is the dilemna - what to turn these monstrosities in to. Or are some so badly built be better to just tear them down. Then there is a link in the OP story of an Atlantic article I haven't had a chance to read yet predicting many of these developments may become the new slums as more people lose these homes & move back in to urban neighborhoods.

[bobbolink]

42. Yup, the new slums. That is the story in the Denver area, which has always known boom and bust

cycles.

And they never learn.

[Mariana]

89. I read that article in the Atlantic and I think it was right on.

I live in one of these things, an early version - it's smaller and more attractive than the newer monstrosities, kind of a proto-McMansion, if you like. I'm telling you it requires damn near constant maintenance to keep up, not just the homes themselves but the yards, too. It's a real pain in the ass, and if they ever become rentals with absentee landlords who skimp on maintenance, they'll turn to shit in no time.

[Arkansas Granny]

102. I work for a general contractor. We have been called in to start repairs

on some of these homes very soon after they are sold. Often the builder has gone out of business or can't be found. We often find shoddy workmanship and low grade materials were used in the construction. They look good on the outside, but, in many cases, the original builder skimped on the basics. They were part of the housing boom and everyone wanted one.

[annabanana]

17. +1! . . . .n/t

[crazyjoe]

63. ya, I'm a former astronaut but I quit because we need to

spend our money here on earth and not up in space!!! It was depressing. :-)

[alittlelark]

85. Get the plans... many of these places are identical.

Start a company that offers plans for converting the 'xyz' model into a triplex and go on from there!

[femrap]

131. I would like to see

them divvied up for communal living....perhaps one for elderly, one for single moms, divorced, whatever. Something that each resident had in common with the others. Each mcmansion would have different ages, genders, whatever....so there would be a great diversity in the neighborhood. Maybe a house for gardeners even. Or for those who love pets.

[w8liftinglady]

6. We made the mistake of buying one of these when I was married

It was hell to try to sell when I was divorced in 2004...which is one of the reasons my credit sucks now....never again.

[another saigon]

47. I have a similar experience

we built ours in 1999 (against my better judgment). It never felt like home except for the gardens and landscaping. I loved that acre for planting. It certainly was not worth it. We sold after it was on the market for 7 months in 2003 at a loss. What a horrible experience.

[DCBob]

8. They are also terribly inefficient, difficult to maintain, and hard to sell..

I suspect many will end up being group homes.

[Jkid]

11. Group homes

A great idea, too bad local governments may oppose this tooth and nail.

[KamaAina]

30. Group homes aren't really such a great idea

not for neighborhoods, but for residents.

Adults with developmental disabilities should be living independently in the community with appropriate supports, not in a mini-institution wheere you have no say in your own meals or activities, or even a key to your own door.

[SoCalDem]

10. Not necessarily.. Perhaps they will go the same way the large homes of past eras

Multi-family use..

Many homes have more than enough space for 2 families or at least shared space with extended family.

THIS is the model that makes sense.

These houses exist, so proper use makes sense.

NEW ones should be limited in scope, and pared down to a size that "ordinary" people can afford.

I have gone back to watching HGTV since we are remodeling, and House Hunters always amuses and amazes me.. A young couple expecting their first child looks at a 3100 sq ft house & complains that "the rooms feel a bit small"...or what no 3 car garage? These are people who are currently living in a 900 sq ft condo and probably have 1 car..:rofl:..and of course the realtor tells them that it's a steal at $450K...

Our house succeeded the raising of 3 sons (all born within 5 years) and it tops out at 1564 sq ft. I will admit, that I always wanted more space, but not at the price that came along with it.

[w8liftinglady]

20. OK..I watch it too(I admit)..when they do the "Bathroom remodel" for 100K

...it amazes me...I'll admit it.

[SoCalDem]

21. I found a fantastic $55 dollar night stand that I am using for my vanity

when we remodel & I'm buying a broken slab of marble for the bathroom floor.,. replacing some faucets & having the tub-shower re-glazed.. a piece of beadboard paneliing & we've got our "spa bathroom" for under $500:)

Found a gorgeous porcelain vessel sink (square one) for $99.

[w8liftinglady]

24. Now-- I DO like the shows that remodel for

they have a lot of great ideas.

[TheMightyFavog]

36. Yeah, but these houses were built on the cheap...

Shoddy materials. These things will be money pits for any landlord in the long run.

[Sherman A1]

51. Agreed

My B-I-L built one back in the 1990's and while we were leaving a family gathering one night at his home, I looked at the holes where the screws should have been in his front (double of course) door hinges. I just drove home thinking, here is a guy that makes oodles of money, smart and got taken to the cleaners on his house of conspicuous consumption.

[snagglepuss]

Thanks for making my day. I've never heard the expressions "starter

castles" ot Garage Mahals" Effing hilarious. :rofl:

[Subdivisions]

39. Same here! I damn near spewed water all over the screen, lol. n/t

[snagglepuss]

12. Thanks for making my day. I've never heard the expressions "starter

castles" ot Garage Mahals" Effing hilarious. :rofl:

[krabigirl]

13. What is the difference between a mcmansion and just a big house?

[EmeraldCityGrl]

40. Besides lack of architectural integrity, they were built for status

at a time when people were more than aware of climate change
and peak oil.

I live in an area that has it share of old (1900-1932) Craftsmen.
While these homes were also status symbols of sorts, they accommodated
large, extended families back in the day. These homes were loved and families
handed them down from one generation to the next, So many of these garish McMansions
were built by young couples maybe with a couple children with two things in
mind, status and profit. Intended to be flipped in a couple years for profit then on to
the next even bigger house.

What really stung was watching a nice smaller home in perfect condition torn down
to build one of these monsters.

[hedgehog]

50. SOme of them went out into new developments, but some were

squeezed into existing lots. Jealousy and/or disgust at conspicuous consumption is one thing, but when your sunlight is cut off because you're squeezed between two monsters, you have real grounds for complaint.

[krabigirl]

57. Some people don't like yard maintenance, though. But there should be zoning ro

so sunlight isn't cut off and etc. As far as the jealousy is concerned, that's not a good emotion..best to channel that elsewhere.

[TwilightGardener]

86. Architecture, craftsmanship, design, materials make the difference.

To me, a McMansion is just a very large, sprawly tract home for middle class people who want to live like they're wealthy. So, acres of (cheap) drywall and a three car garage to impress the neighbors.

[JoePhilly]

114. Having grown up in a very small, Philly row home, I now try to recall ..

the "Architecture, craftsmanship, design" .... it had none.

It was a rectangular box.

At one time, it had been a duplex, one family upstairs, and one downstairs. It was converted, as were a number of homes in my neighborhood.

A tract home of any size would have been an improvement.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

104. A McMansion is just a house that is thrown together

If you look at the older style mansions, the people who built them really built them with care. Sometimes it took them years and years before they moved in. That's why some of them last much longer than McMansions.

[onethatcares]

14. oh noes, what will the toll bros crank out next?

face it, these mcwhatevers are junque. OSB over 24 inch on ctr framing, truss roofs and vinyl framed windows. Anyone think they'll last more than 20 years without major repair? By that I mean, rotted roof sheathing, rotted wall sheathing, CHINESE DRYWALL (almost forgot that one), plastic plumbing and builders that were in it to win it quick.

Hell,just finding carpenters that could read blueprints for them was hard enough. Buyers were a lot easier to find though.

[Dawson Leery]

82. Bob Toll switched horses and went full out for Democrats

in 2008 in hopes that they would revive the suburban housing market.
Toll Brothers does not have much of a future.

[derby378]

16. They're hanging on for dear life in Dallas

And I can't understand why. They're difficult to keep cool in the summer, there's lots of wasted space, and how many homeowners really want to clean those vaulted ceilings, anyway?

[w8liftinglady]

19. tell me about it...like trying to wear Gucci Shoes...just doesn't fit

[Fleshdancer]

26. Austin too

If I'm in a 1400 sqft condo in Texas and paying almost $400 this month on my #$%&*@ electric bill, I can't imagine what someone with a 4,000 sqft mcmansion is paying. Crazy.

Plus, I personally can't stand the idea of having more than one living space. How many sofas does a family need??

[SammyWinstonJack]

37. 1800sqft San Antonio facing a third month of $400+ electric bill.

Have lived in this house for 13 yrs and have never had electric bills this high, not even close. :banghead:

[Retrograde]

53. Expensive to heat and cool

Time-consuming to maintain - unless you hire someone and that costs $. And they make it easier to accumulate stuff you don't really need. I'll stick with our c. 1910 1200 sqft bungalow, which is more than spacious enough for two people and the cats. If we want to, we can thoroughly clean the whole place in an afternoon.

[derby378]

79. Bungalows are really cool

I'd be happy with a well-designed ranch home, though. I'm easy.

[femrap]

132. I love ranches.

I hate to have to clean a big space and insure it and maintain it and get taxed for it and everything else. I rented a big house early in my life and that cured me of ever wanting a big house. I had to vacuum steps! I said I'd never have an upstairs!

I just want a small space (800-900 sq. ft) that is off grid as much as possible....and lots of insulation.

[SoCalDem]

96. The 3-story open foyer ceilings always crack me up

I see that and imagine the huge energy bills.. Why not put some floors & ceilings in & at least make more living space?.. Unless you let the kids play with an indoor hovercraft, all that "air" is useless:)

[aquart]

22. Thank you, God.

Okay, I would have preferred it if you had managed to do this one without throwing most of the nation, nay the world, out of work, but I'm humble and I will take what I can get.

[HughBeaumont]

28. They're just not good value for the money.

I know ownership never factored in - even if both buyers were making $100,000 a year or more, it still wouldn't be good value. The only reason people bought these things was being conned into it's "Resale Value". That's pure speculation to believe that real estate prices will always go up, and now their purchasers straight lost their shirts.

I like my 55-year old 1200 Sq Footer. And the best part about it is that I'll be able to pay my loan off prior to its maturity if I so choose. Can't say that with a McMansion unless you won the lottery or something.

[Mnemosyne]

32. Tell that to my sister, wife of a border patrol thug, who has bought 2 in the

last 4 years. One for $290,000 and another for $280,000, on a border patrol 'agents' pay, both over 2400 sq. ft for only three people.

:puke:

Her FAUX-news watching, modeling and bar-tending degree have taken her far. :rofl:


These people base their own value, and others, based on what they own, not on what kind of people they are, really kind of sad...

[crazyjoe]

65. are you saying a 2400 sq ft house is a mcmansion???

maybe it's me but this tread is really stupid.

[Mnemosyne]

149. It is to me. n/t

[Subdivisions]

38. Good. This was the single largest waste of resources in history. Good riddance. n/t

[maxsolomon]

41. wishful thinking

as an architect who's worked with mcmansion developers (on their boutique "dense" projects), i can tell you they will resume destroying the earth as soon as the banks start loaning again.

the only people with any money left are the rich.

[bluestateguy]

43. I guess all recessions bring about a few positive things

nt

[Maat]

45. The incredible hostility here ...

is really vile. I happen to own a home in Riverside County, Ca., that would be defined as a "McMansion," per this definiton. My husband and I both work out of it, and we homeschool our daughter using one of the rooms as a classroom. Those who direct ill feeling my way will indeed receive the cosmic consequences they deserve. This is one more reason I'm planning to quit coming to this place, despite having been a member for six and a half years.

[krabigirl]

54. I hear ya..honestly, don't worry about it. As long as you are happy, who cares what others think?

I don't get it either.

[Gaedel]

72. I feel the same way.......

I started out my adult life living in a 43' by 8' trailer.

Over my younger years, i lived in a lot of duplexes, trailers, apartments, etc.

Now I am 71, I have a nice large house and i will enjoy it until such time as i have to go to a nursing home.

[Dappleganger]

145. People are tired of the excess.

My neighborhood is full of families with 1-2 children in homes that are more than 4000 s.f. It's ridiculous.

[Maat]

46. delete ... accidental double post.

[maxsolomon]

48. post a photo and i'll tell you whether you pass the purity test

how many cars fit in your garage? over 3? it's a mcmansion. just accept it.

[Maat]

49. Well, I converted that big garage ...

into a rec room - not that this fact is particularly pertinent to my message.

[crazyjoe]

66. Oh my god, are you friggin serious??? hahahahahaha

[maxsolomon]

109. partially

the purity test part was a joke. but if you live in a mcmansion, i wouldn't be surprised if you get defensive.

[crazyjoe]

151. my point being i could not care less what some anonymous internet poster

thinks of my house or the way I choose to live. Who are you, the morality police? F-off. McMansions are not the reason we are so fucked right now, it's the vast sums of money was being loaned to people who could not pay it back.

[begin_within]

52. A few McMansions:

[RockaFowler]

55. Who wants to clean all those windows??

Not me!!

We have a very nice 3/2/2 1200 square feet. It's perfect for the 2 of us and the 3 kids (mini-dachshunds)

[Retrograde]

56. Plops

I call them "plops" because they're just plopped down in the middle of the plot without any thought give to landscaping or aesthetics. The outer suburbs of Buffalo have vast tracts of them taking over former country villages while the core city decays. To me, they're the worst of both worlds: too far apart to make for a walkable environment, but too close to the neighbors to get a feeling of really being rural.

[cornermouse]

59. That first house is not my idea of a McMansion.

Its a beautiful old house and doesn't even appear to be all that big. Anyway, if they live in it and can keep it up, what do you care and why would you consider it any of your business?

[begin_within]

61. We see you got up on the wrong side of bed today.

[maxsolomon]

62. it's faux-old. notice the double height entry?

or the ridiculous "grand" entry staircase? the only things good about this house are the 1-car garage door tucked in the main body of the house, the brick, and the relatively restrained, accurate 'tuscan' cornice and roof.

the reason that one would care is that these homes contribute to climate change and have destroyed the countryside.

[cornermouse]

70. Their house, not yours.

None of your business. Pure and simple.

[maxsolomon]

108. as an architect, i disagree

aesthetics ARE my business. housing IS my business.

the aesthetic poverty of money-grubbing contemporary america makes MY life, and your life, less rich. your opinion, that it isn't my business when ugly crap gets built, is why america is getting uglier every day.

perhaps when some builder throws up a tacky house 3x the size of yours on your south property line, replete with deeply confused and incompetently applied period detailing, using underpaid mexican laborers, you'll change your mind.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

116. ah...so it is YOUR definition of beauty we should aspire to... gotcha n/t

[cornermouse]

143. You're wrong on all counts.

If you aren't paying for it, it isn't your business.
Around here, the Amish do the building and according to the work they did for us, their workmanship is overrated.
I won't change my mind; especially for someone who makes it clear upthread that he intends to make a profit off of conversion.

[femrap]

134. The fact that this house

is sucking up tons of energy to heat and cool is anyone's concern who cares about Mother Nature and how long resources will be available to heat/cool the next generation.

Unless a family has a ton of kids or has three generations living there, it's a fucking waste. I think they are as hideous as the ghetto housing in the poor areas. There is no reason for such waste when others are living in refrigerator boxes.

It's fucking immoral. And then they put gates around themselves to keep out the 'riff-raff.' Those gates aren't going to keep out the hungry and long-term unemployed.

[tridim]

77. I agree, it has a little bit of character at least.

[NoodleyAppendage]

83. Like the first one...the others are hideous. n/t

J

[Ichingcarpenter]

98. Yep..... pretty damn ugly and I've seen even worse

This one got COLUMNS.... and nothing says mansion like COLUMNS.

[Lisa0825]

60. More pics....

The ones I really think of as McMansions are the ones crammed together with no breathing room....

[JNelson6563]

67. Yeah, "mansions". Oy

I have always preferred a neat, brick, solid old house (like where I grew up just east of Detroit, auto baron country there back in the day) over these new take-up-the-entire-lot houses. I like the walls made of plaster instead of drywall for one thing, another is there is usually beautiful old wood in these old beauties. I live in a neighborhood of real old houses (sadly mostly wood though, lumber baron country here back in the day). Some of them very large and stately, others more cottage like. All look different from each other and are very nice in their own way. I love them and always have. Something about those drywall echoe-y cold feeling houses, the "McMansions" as they're called, never really felt at home in one.

Julie

[JoePhilly]

117. I grew up in a philly row home ... here is what they look like ...

What's the difference??

[Lisa0825]

121. Those are more modest, IMO.

There is a difference between row houses, townhomes, etc, with are built together like that, vs building huges homes and then cramming them together.

Homes that size, with varying architectural features (as opposed to townhomes with similar features) crammed together like that just look wrong to me. It's a personal opinion. I can't give you some justification for why I think it's hideous. I just do.

And often, they will move into older communities with homes with styles that were all built in a simlar time with similar features, buy a house between two modest homes, tear it down, and put in a three story monster that takes up the whole lot. It ruins the character of the neighborhood.

[JoePhilly]

125. Modest is in the eye of the beholder ....

In Philly, you have a variety of row home configurations. Some more "modest" than others.

Some, to this day, are like what you see in the movie Rocky ... no yard at all. My brother in-law's family are in South Philly and the distance from the front of the house to the street is less than 5 feet.

Some, have a small yard, like the image I used. Some actually have descent yards, both front and back.

I agree with you that homes built in older communities that are "out of place" suck. That should be a local zoning issue, but the fact is that if you can build a house that will pay taxes above what those around it pay, you can get away with it.

Having said that ... sometimes, it makes sense to "rebuild" an area that has fallen behind. Houses, like cars, die. But I agree that is not a process we should accelerate.

I do agree that some of the "architecture" being used is ugly. Kind of like a prostitute in a sparkly outfit. No debate there.

[Quantess]

148. Those are a much more reasonable size,

and they look nicer, too.

[BobTheSubgenius]

68. 3000 square is a "mansion"??? Really?

I have no love of this to-the-edge-of-the-property nonsense that's been going on for years, to start with. There is nothing "family" or "neighbourhood" about the areas affected; when I went back to my old neighbourhood in Vancouver some years ago, I couldn't believe what it looked like. Without a word of a lie, the first glimpse of one made me say to myself "How did they ever get a permit to put even a small hotel in this area?

But.....to call a 3000 square foot house a "mansion" is a misnomer, IMO. It's a house barely larger than average - 20-50% bigger than any spec house a builder might erect.

Anyway...a bad trend going south, hopefully.

[saracat]

69. I think the attitude in this thread sucks. My house is 2600 sq, ft

and was built in1 1974. It was only updated once when we bought the house in 1986. We haven't touched it except to paint the exterior(once) and replaster the pool. It is not a mansion by any stretch of the immagination. Nor is it the largest house in my neighborhood, which dates to the 60's and is an older neighborhood for the SW. Thse are not McMansions(though some have been overbuilt built by newbies, taking advantage of fortclosures!) We have lots of land and wide streets. We are a very stable neighborhood that only reecntly has started to sprout lots of for sale signs. My next door neighbor took a loss on his house when he sold it because he didn't have a job.They had lived next door since we moved in. The neighbors across the street also sold at a loss. I do not want to live in a really small home. We been there and done that. I am not comfortable. Each to his own. And no matter what you think of these houses these people may not be what you think.Forclosures and losses are a tragedy for us all.

[Raine]

73. I HATE those HIDEOUS things

seeing the end of them makes me :bounce: for joy!!! :applause:

[cherokeeprogressive]

75. So at 2600 sqft my house is what... a mini mcmansion?

What bullshit about what sets a mcmansion apart from a regular mansion: someone's subjective opinion.

If I could have afforded a larger house than the one I have, with the SAME view, I would have bought it. Someday I'll increase the size of the greatroom on the top floor and it will probably push the sqft of my house well over 3,000.

Guess the age of the mcmansion isn't really dead, it's just not feeling well.

[Raejeanowl]

76. Hooray

Half of them in my area sit vacant and foreclosed upon. The rest will go to insupportable maintenance and utility costs.

Ecological disasters, temples to conspicuous consumption and living above one's means.

[cornermouse]

78. I'm looking down this thread and asking myself

what else you'll disapprove of.

[depakid]

80. How about things that are excessively and needlessly wasteful?

Americans with 4% of the world's population seem to think that they can go on using (or that they're entitled to use) 25% of the world's energy resources.

Not going to happen- one way or another, they'll have to "powerdown."

[cornermouse]

146. I'm politely pointing out.

Not everyone is the same or has the same needs. I've lived most of my life in houses which were small enough that I couldn't keep my books and crafts or even very many off-season clothes and couldn't go into a room that wasn't already occupied by someone else. You would appear to consider that ideal, having "been there" I do not.

Reading through this thread, I wonder if people are going to want to dictate what I eat, what I wear, where I live (as in location, I'm guessing you think everyone should live within city limits). Seriously, at what point do you set a stop sign for the rules you want to set for others?

[Dawson Leery]

81. A few matters: 1) It's about time these things went away.

2) A Mc Mansion should be:
-over 4000 sqft
-9 foot/10 foot ceilings (costs more to heat/cool)
-Mimic the traditional traits of the large estates of the past
-found in an outer suburb which requires at least 30 minutes to get
to a major population center without traffic

3) The Mc Mansion craze was fueled by cheap debt (Jimmy Carter warned us
of what would happen if America did not change it's ways).
The digital revolution combined with Clinton's modulating of
the tax code helped put off the inevitable and gave us a strong decade of
growth for all classes, still it put off the inevitable.
Bush and company came along and put America on a 1980's styled
economic policy on tons of steroids.

4 The bill has come due. Jimmy Carter has been vindicated.
Time to get off of oil and dump the outer suburbs.

[applegrove]

84. They all have Garage Mahals! This is just like the victorian era mansions that all got

torn down or converted into something else because there was an economic change... wages went up for staff and rich people couldn't manage their victorian mansions alone. Only now wages are going down for everyone except the very rich.

[flvegan]

87. Can I get clarification on what is so evil about the "McMansion" please?

I know that DU is the home of specific hypocrisy (bad H2, bad McMansion...but don't speak ill of what I do which is far worse!), so I'm a bit curious.

And no, I don't live in one. And no, I don't wish to. I'm happy with my 1500 s.f. and cleaning twice that would really suck for me.

[TwilightGardener]

88. I don't think they're evil. Just usually architectural vomit. Which is what

happens when you take a normally-proportioned suburban home and add another 2000 sq ft. of 2x4's and drywall and a couple more cheesy faux-palladian windows and a few more fake roofline peaks.

[flvegan]

91. I can agree with that.

Thanks for the response.

[JoePhilly]

118. Are they worse than this??

This is basically where I grew up.

[Ron Green]

138. Yes, they're much worse.

The difference is that your picture is of a community of attached houses, well-built in the early part of the 20th Century, and designed as a neighborhood. The McMansion is, as so many have pointed out here, poorly built and designed to isolate a wannabee landed baron and his family AWAY FROM their neighbors, albeit on a small piece of land.

It's a huge difference.

[TwilightGardener]

147. What's wrong with old row houses? My dad grew up in one of those.

They made sense in their time and place, filled a need--and they can be attractive if not poorly kept or badly modified.

[amborin]

90. habitat destruction, excessive energy use,

and, often, conspicuous ostentation trumping taste;

in some cases, such as in Venice, CA, for one example, people buy teardowns, construct mcmansions, and thereby harm the existing neighborhood of smaller, single story homes

[flvegan]

92. Okay. So if the same developer had platted the subdivision

with 50 smaller homes rather than 25 McMansions, that would have been okay? Same habitat is wiped out, likely even more energy use.

Taste is really far too emotional for this.

[amborin]

93. no, same amt of habitat not wiped out

the two figures you cite are not equivalent


in the example i cited, the mcmansions occupy mostly the entire lot

the smaller homes don't

there are zoning regs governing lot size and house dimensions

there are setbacks, side and back yard regs, etc......

in many cases, the mcmansion folks get variances to construct something that occupies mostly the entire lot

moreover, the energy arg you make is not valid

you're admitting one mcmansion person would use twice the energy

[flvegan]

94. You don't "get" real property do you?

That's "houses" or "real estate" to you. A developer plats a subdivision. It has a certain amount of acreage. The developer decides to have 100 McMansions or 200 smaller homes on that same chunk of dirt. Families of 4 in each home in both scenarios. Difference is that it's 400 people on that chunk of dirt or it's 800 people. Regardless of setbacks and variances (nice red herrings, btw) it is still the same chunk of dirt that someone has developed, regardless of how much of that dirt they have under their respective floors. And my "energy arg" is quite valid.

Your turn.

Oh, and before I forget, let me ask...how much meat do you eat, habitat concerned?

[amborin]

113. you prove my point: using your ex, those in McMans use 2x the energy

that is, you're saying 100 families of 4 can use double the energy; that is, 100 houses filled with family of 4 uses the energy as 200 houses filled with family of 4


otherwise, i have locally fought developers for the past 5 yrs and am overly fam with lot size and variances; i know how mcmans can occupy a larger portion of the lot than smaller homes, via variances

[Gormy Cuss]

120. You mean "teardown" as in " I want to tear it down," rather than the old meaning

which was a house too far gone to be worth the price of repairs. From what I've seen most places called "teardowns" these days are just smaller houses that don't suit the ego of the buyer.

[pecwae]

95. Shit, I've learned that I live in a McMansion!

It's over 2400SF and has a 2 car garage, so it well qualifies. It's over 20 years old, been added onto a few times to get to that SF, needs a new deck and roof, and only one garage door actually works, but it meets the biggie qualifiers for mass disapproval.

Where's that hair shirt?

[Gormy Cuss]

124. Sorry, you don't qualify.

Your house is too small.

[raccoon]

97. Good. Big houses are harder on the environment; harder to heat, harder to cool.

Many Americans have gotten used to progressively bigger houses. The average size of houses has increased a lot in the past few decades.

As a single adult, I wouldn't mind having a smaller home, and I'm sure there are many others like me. But developers don't build them any more. It doesn't make them as much money.

[chrisa]

100. RIP, but good riddance.

I hope they start building small - medium, distinct homes again. I would be perfectly fine moving into one of those. I'm tired of seeing street after street of ugly ass, huge houses that are all the same color (grey or light blue), are all the same looking (look like vinyl boxes), and probably cost a fortune. I always wondered how anybody afforded those, since those homes are all they build now, but I guess that's what got us into this housing mess.

If there is anything that shouldn't be mass produced, it's houses. That picture would be considered distinct for McMansions around here. :)

[FunkyLeprechaun]

101. Good!

Sometimes it reminds me of how Sharon Tate's house:



was turned into this



I know the original Tate house was more beautiful than the abomination that is in its place.

[nonconformist]

135. To be fair, if I had bought the Tate house, I would have bulldozed it to the ground, too.

I wouldn't have been able to sleep at night thinking about what had happened there.

[DailyGrind51]

105. Good! They do not do neighborhoods any favors.

People in modest homes find that aggregate property values escalate along with local real estate taxes, but their smaller homes do not become more marketable.

[snot]

107. Let's get one and turn it into a hippie commune.

[Liberal_in_LA]

115. Two brand new ones have sat empty and unsold near UCLA for 4 years.

Priced at 4million and 6million. Prices were dropped by a million. Still, no takers. Big fancy things.

[femrap]

127. Thank you so much for the

good news! I hated the McMansion developments....somehow the houses are looked alike. No character. Give me the old neighborhoods anyday.

[Jennicut]

136. Well, we have a huge glut of them in Connecticut. Anyone want to come bulldoze them down here?

I grew up in a town that seemed to excel in having them built. Oh, Cheshire, what did you do to yourself? I grew up in a nice 1970's raised ranch. Just big enough. With a nice level yard that could fit a pool and swing set. Now when I visit my parents in the same house, I drive by some neighborhoods filled with these ugly McMansions. Small farming town to gaudy wealthy town.

[geardaddy]

137. Thank Dog!

We had a moratorium here in Minneapolis on those fucking eyesores.

[Gaedel]

140. Here is the ultimate

http://www.oakland.edu/mbh/

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

141. My Mom taught me frugality was a good thing. Maybe she was a Communist? -nt

[Dappleganger]

144. With soaring utility rates, who can afford to live in one?

JEA is raising our rates 10% October first! Our bill for last month in a 2300 sf home (one level, built in 1999 with a new AC) was $638!!!! We have 6 people here regularly, quite often a 7th but OMG.

I have to get a freaking job SOMEWHERE just to pay our damn bill! It does include water/sewage but STILL. We may have to sell off one or two children in the yard sale.

[Dover]

150. Maybe we should drive a stake through its Mcheart just to be certain.

Austin,Texas recently passed laws to prevent these monstrosities from overtaking established
neighborhoods of normal sized homes. But the real 'stake' in its heart is obviously the poor
economic situation and lack of a previously friendly climate, politically, for developers and builders.