Facebook. Posting I couldn't ignore...

[FLyellowdog]

http://apps.facebook.com/bc_mosque/

I just couldn't help myself. When a friend posted a flag on FB in honor of opposing the Near-Ground Zero mosque, I had to respond with the following. Guess he'll be DE-friending me sooner rather than later.

"I thought our flag stood for religious freedom...the right to worship when, where, and how we choose. While the site for the cultural center does include a mosque and this is insensitive to Americans, if we allow the current sentiment to pr...evail, then we will have lost the very basis on which our country was founded. As such the terrorists will have succeeded in doing exactly what they wanted to do...to destroy America and what she stands for, not the least of which is our religious freedom. Do I think the cultural center should be built eslewhere? Probably not a bad idea. Do I think the Muslims have right to build where they want to? Without a doubt. I am proud to stand up for America and her ideals."

:patriot:

[coti]

1. Why should it be built in a different place? nt

[MerryBlooms]

2. Good question.

I suppose I should dig out the pearls from my jewelry box in preparation for clutching in anticipation of the non answer.
Ugh .. this whole nontroversy is ridiculous to the bone.

[FLyellowdog]

6. For me, if I were a Muslim (which I'm not)

and I recognized and acknowledged the paranoia the so many Americans have about Muslims, I might try to bridge the reality gap by moving the center to another location. Not that it really SHOULD be relocated, but that in so doing it would hopefully help those who are so angry/afraid/paranoid to see that Muslims are a good people.

There's nothing wrong with people trying to get along with one another.

Oh, by the way, don't let your pearls near any of your vinegar. I understand they will dissolve.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. The only problem with moving

when they have all the permits... is the damn slippery slope. Who's next?

They did all that was required by zoning laws, et al. They MUST NOT move... and screw the sensibilities of these damn fuckwards who are paranoid and will gin up the next scandal when this dies.

[MerryBlooms]

13. Well now see -

I don't understand the paranoia. In my mind, I feel rational people should be able to distinguish the radicals from the whole ... but I'm also atheist, so maybe I don't get the whole religious part of the paranoia equation, but I admit that.

My pearls have been locked away in velvet for over eight years, so worries about vinegar - they were a gift from my husband's mother - (both deceased) ... I am saving them for when my sons marry. I'll split them up and have something nice made for each of their brides.

[FLyellowdog]

15. That's a great idea about the pearls.

Maybe I could do the same for my grandsons. You've inspired me! :hi:

[MerryBlooms]

19. I'd wave back if I knew how. lol

[FLyellowdog]

22. Go to "Smilies lookup table" just above the posting area.

It's labeled Message Options. Good luck.

[MerryBlooms]

24. Oh cool, thanks!

:toast:

edit - I didn't have java enabled ... d'oh. :P

[FLyellowdog]

16. Operative word there is "rational".

[coti]

14. That's absolutely the wrong message. It validates bigotry.

It validates the idea that all Muslims are the same, which isn't true.

These are Muslims who are living peacefully in the United States and are just as American as anyone else. They don't just have a right to build the mosque where they want to- they should also be left alone while doing it. Any sense that what they're doing is someone else's business, as a matter of courtesy or otherwise, is premised in the bigoted notion that, since they're Muslims, they're terrorists.

[FLyellowdog]

21. I think "a matter of courtesy" is important

in many areas and is exactly what's missing from and messing with the good American life. That they SHOULD be left alone is a truism, but we all know in our society, that just isn't going to happen...what with free speech being guaranteed. I believe in the education of the masses and those who don't understand the Bill of Rights need to be remediated in their misunderstanding of said document. Thus my desire to post/educate/remediate as much as I can. But after all is said and done, more is said than done. Opinions are like belly buttons; everybody's got one.

[Taverner]

4. Exactly - it this the US or the USSR?

[Freetradesucks]

26. Because the reason they insist on building there

is a big "F" You! Nobody is disputing the legality or right for them to build it there, it's a matter of class and taste. It's both poor form and bad taste to insist on this site, especially when there is so much opposition. If the purpose was truly to bring people closer and reduce friction and prejudice then they would build some place else.

Obama has said the same, as has Dean.

(edited for grammar)

[TalkingDog]

31. How about that Shinto Shrine at Pearl Harbor?

Is that the same thing?

Or is it okay because we "won" that war?

If that's the case are you suggesting we aren't "winning" this one? ....TRAITOR!!!!!! (sarcasm)

[coti]

33. No, it's not. That's just your personal interpretation, probably because

you have something against Muslims.

[Freetradesucks]

36. How dare you have the audacity

to call me a bigot. I suppose you are calling Obama and Dean bigots as well, huh? Or perhaps you are a simple minded fool who sees everything in terms race, religion and prejudices.

[Ian David]

27. It was meant to be a good will gesture to promote unity.

Apparently, it has failed in that task, through no fault of their own.

When a PR campaign has failed, you don't keep flogging the same program in the hopes that it suddenly transforms into something that works.

If their goal is to make non-Muslims feel better about Muslims, then, from a PR perspective, they should move it.

They shouldn't have to.

That's the ONLY reason why they should move it.

[coti]

34. Looking at it from the perspective of being a "PR campaign,"

whether that's what it is or not, apparently the reason it has "failed" is because some people are still equating all of Islam with terrorism.

It seems to me that, uncovering that kind of bigotry, you don't back off of it. Now that it's come to light, we have an opportunity to address it quite directly and "refudiate" it.

As I mention in another thread, would you have taken the same approach to the racist uproar that came about when blacks insisted on being integrated into society and given their full rights as US citizens?

[Ian David]

35. That's a good point.

However, this battle isn't about forcing people to give them their civil rights. This isn't a fight to change an unjust law.

This one is about winning hearts and minds of ordinary citizens, not asserting rights under the law.

And unfortunately, the bigots have poisoned this for them.

Now, if they want to win hearts and minds, IMHO, they need to find the right message to explain why they are moving the center.

And then they can invite all those assholes who criticized them to go swimming there.

If winning hearts and minds is their goal, they should move it. If asserting their right to do as they please is their goal, they should stay. Both are valid goals and worthy of support.

[Bitwit1234]

3. What I want to know is if the Muslims are forced to move when

will this religious nonsense stop. Why not next everyone should kowtow to the fact that Catholics say we have to not eat meat on certain Fridays, and that women should cover their heads in church. How about some of the religious nuts who don't believe in singing, dancing and reading only the books they SELECT for you to read. It is an old adage that is repeated over and over...when they came for....(fill in the blank) I wasn't (blank) so I did nothing. It works folks. Once these nutso gain a foot they want a mile. And we have just enough ignorant prejudiced people in this country to move it along.

[FLyellowdog]

7. Exactly.

[Bonhomme Richard]

5. Believe me. The only thing they will hear is agreement that...

it wouldn't be a bad idea if built elsewhere. Everything else will be ignored.
I am tired of bending over backwards in an attempt to make stupid ignorant people feel better about themselves.

[L0oniX]

8. Next thing ya know, you won't be able to be on American Idol if you are Muslem.

:eyes:

[FLyellowdog]

12. I keep trying to smash that darn bug! nt

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FLyellowdog]

11. It's the issue of the Mosque isn't it?

Not so much the cultural center itself. I'm wondering if there had been no plans for a mosque, would the manufactured outrage be so great? :shrug:

[kayakjohnny]

18. I think it's more the issue of fear.

Americans right now seem proud to display their fear about anything and everything.

They don't see the gutless downside to this.

It's fear for the sake of fear right now.

There doesn't need to be much of a good reason behind it.

Fear is the new courage.

The populace, unfortunately, hasn't noticed how deeply they've been psyops-ed.

Yet.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FLyellowdog]

23. Like how one chooses to use one's property?

[mmonk]

25. Yes, it is a property issue but why do people want to stop it?

Because it is also a religious issue (which also makes it a 1st amendment issue).

[progressoid]

17. You're still here?

[nc4bo]

28. Not anymore and good riddance to bad rubbish. nt

[GoneOffShore]

29. I think that would be a no.

[mzteris]

30. how far away would it have to be?

Three blocks? Four? Maybe a mile? 10? How about a 100?

where do you draw the line?

How about the strip clubs? Those okay for "honoring" the fallen?

edit to add - otherwise, right on. I just don't see why anyone opposes the peaceful Muslims who are antithetical to Al Qaeda to build their cultural center!

[applegrove]

32. Excellent job!