It must take breathtaking arrogance for the most ignorant

[malaise]

people from a country not 240 years old to believe they could overthrow the cultural and religious practices of another country that has been around for over 5,000 years.
What a clusterfuck. All they've done is taken the religious conflicts from overseas home.
Fuck all religion!

[piratefish08]

1. give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. give a man religion

and he'll starve to death praying for a fish.

[malaise]

4. Lol

Perfect - I'll just give him a fishing line and no faith.

[kentuck]

15. I'll have to remember that one!

:-)

[LynneSin]

24. Or he'll preemptively attack his neighbor who is out there busy fishing for fish

:eyes:

[npk]

100. Good one.

[Donnachaidh]

2. Wonder how many of these dumbasses would answer a RW call for a Crusade?

Some of these yahoos really act as if they'd love to see that particularly hellish chapter of mankind repeated. :scared: :hide:

[malaise]

5. Isn't that their Armageddon?

Poor fools don't realize that the rich would welcome a culling to get rid of as many poor people as possible. Bet the fools have signed away their 'lil pittance to the rich in advance.

What a con.

[Donnachaidh]

10. I still think they pray for some foreign government to drop a bomb on them

I'm serious -- they WANT Armageddon, but they DON'T want to leave anything of value that other non-xtians might use. And the *end* would be *easier*, because they would be instantly vaporized.

Yes -- they are nuts.

[Lagomorph]

46. Today's Americans....

...could operate drones on their computers. No need to go over there and get all dirty, hot and icky.

[whathehell]

119. You need to ask that question on a RIGHT WING board...This isn't one. n/t

[MrScorpio]

3. The Romans did it to the more ancient Greeks

The British did it to the Hindu/Muslim Indians

The Spanish did it to the Aztecs and the Incas


What's makes us any different?

[malaise]

6. Neither the Brits nor the Spanish were able to

kill off those cultures in their entirety.

[MrScorpio]

9. True, but it didn't stop them from trying nt

[malaise]

11. The really sad part is that they all believe they will achieve

their aims. They never learn.

[proteus_lives]

57. "We"

We never learn.

[DireStrike]

62. Media coverage

Don't get me wrong, we can still commit atrocities right up to the edge, but that edge is a lot shorter than it was for the Romans or Spanish, or even British.

We also don't want their land. We just want their resources and we want to be able to tell them what to do. That's trickier to pull off.

[tabasco]

79. The Romans integrated Greek cutlure into their own.

The Romans did not attempt to destroy Greek culture, they taught it to their kids.

[malaise]

113. But most of their indigenous people rejected it outright

It's was the Roman elites who mimicked Greek culture.

[tabasco]

141. Do you have a cite or reference for that?

Regardless, in no way did the Romans attempt to "overthrow" Greek culture.

[malaise]

145. Many rejected it or ignored it

The earliest recorded Greek Games at Rome were promoted in 186 BC (Harris 1972; Mandell 1976). By that time Greek athletes had become mere professional public entertainers. The Roman masses did not exhibit the profound admiration for the Greeks which the intellectuals and 'leisured class' expressed for the once dominant power.

Brutus did not support the games either (Harris 1972), and while Cicero admired many things Greek, his admiration did not extend to their sports. Four months after the murder of Julius Caesar, Cicero wrote to Atticus:
"It is rumoured that there were not many spectators at the opening of the Greek Games. That did not disappoint me in the least, for you know what I think of the Greek Games."

HARRIS, H.A., (1972) Sport in Greece and Rome, Thames and Hudson, London.

MANDELL, R., (1984) Sport, A Cultural History, Columbia Press, New York.
------------

[tabasco]

158. Ohhhhhkay.

What does this have to do with Rome trying to "overthrow" Greek culture.

Some Roman scholars decried the Greek influence on Roman culture and pined for the "old days and old ways" but Rome did not try to "overthrow" Greek culture.

Am I missing something?

[Change Happens]

7. Amen......nt

[whathehell]

8. Why not just..

..Fuck all arrogance!?

[malaise]

12. Because the religious shite

has really annoyed me this week.

[whathehell]

13. Really?.......You're anti-religion shite

annoys me.

[malaise]

14. That's life isn't it

They annoy me and I annoy you.

[whathehell]

16. That's one "life"....and it need not be...The alternative MIGHT be tolerance

and respect for the views of others...but I'm guessing you're more like the subjects of your op than you'd like to believe.B-)

[malaise]

19. Sorry I don't tolerate stupidity

Tolerance of stupidity is why we have reached this sorry place.
Ignorance and stupidity must be called out publicly.

[whathehell]

30. So you think all non-atheists here on DU are "stupid"?

[mr blur]

102. Not stupid, certainly deluded. (nt)

[whathehell]

118. Please don't confuse your opinions and prejudices with "certainty"

There's little "certainty" about anything.

Even scientists agree that there is no way to "prove" or "disprove" the existence of God...Duh.

[whathehell]

120. BTW, why don't you let Malaise answer that one since the post was directed to her

But it seems she lacks the guts to answer.

[malaise]

151. I think that's a fundamental difference between atheists

and fanatics. Walking only with one's herd was never part of my make up.
I actually believe people have the right to believe what they want.

DU has some great members and I don't give a damn about their religious beliefs as long as they're not trying to impose them on me.

Sarah Palin is stupid.

change word

[whathehell]

31. Sorry, I don't tolerate hypocrisy

unless, of course, you think the man represented in your icon, Rastafarian Bob Marley, was "stupid" as well.

And no, dear..."tolerance of stupidity", if by that you mean religion, is NOT why "we've reached this place"...Wall Street GREED has brought us to this place...Duh.

[mzteris]

54. religion has screwed over people since it's inception

all over the world.

Hate and intolerance and bigotry and patriarchy and control and authoritarianism and blind obedience and "self-centeredness" - - - WAY the hell before Wall Street ever came into existence.

[whathehell]

74. So has "greed"...of which Wall Street is just a relatively recent manifestation

Greed, jealousy, Power lust, Anger...all exist quite nicely without religion.

Stalin, arguably the greatest murderer of the 20th century, was an atheist..I don't suspect Hitler was very religious either, Do you?

Religion, like most human institutions, has had some negative effects, some very negative...But to blame ALL the world's problems on it is just BS...Human nature itself causes problems.

I suspect you've had a very bad experience with religion and that's unfortunate, but the fact is, but not everyone HAS and even if they have, they are able, in time, to gain some perspective.

[earth mom]

81. WTF! Are you comparing atheists and agnostics to Hitler?!

:grr: :puke:

Excuse me, but the USA is actively engaged in RELIGIOUS WARS overseas whether you are willing to admit it or not!

Those are wars that the fundies here in the good ole USA support 100%!

Ask yourself why.

That is if you dare to stop living in denial.

Oh and btw, atheists and agnostics have just as many morals and ethics as religious people do-actually probably more so because they would NEVER cheer on wars that were killing MILLIONS of people in the so called war on terror which is actually a religious war draped in bullshit and lies.

[mzteris]

87. They are MORE moral in my book - because they are

moral because they WANT TO BE - not because they expect some silly crown or a bunch of virgins in heaven, and not because they're afraid of hell and damnation.

[LostinVA]

109. I wholly agree with this

[whathehell]

91. Um...No.

"Oh and btw, atheists and agnostics have just as many morals and ethics as religious people do-actually probably more so because they would NEVER cheer on wars that were killing MILLIONS of people .."

You need to read the part about Stalin again...If you know who he is.:eyes:

[npk]

101. +1000

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[whathehell]

121. ....

self-delete.

[whathehell]

123. Oh. That's too bad...It's such a badly reasoned, hysterical post, lol! n/t

[mzteris]

86. I didn't have a "bad" experience - I just grew up.

and then I realized how much damage it has done since it's inception.

[LostinVA]

110. Same with me

Most atheists and agnostics I know, including myself, didn't have a "bad experience" with religion at all, but rather closer to the opposite of that.

To think most have had this mythical "bad experience" is arrogant and condescending.

[whathehell]

117. It's also "ignorant" and "condescending" To say that those who are not atheists are "stupid"

In fact, it goes beyond that, being hostile and blatantly insulting.

[LostinVA]

125. I'm discussing what the poster I replied to said, and what you said

Go and discuss that issue with whomever said it. I would like you to fine ONE post where I have ever said that. Guess what? You won't. You will find hundreds of posts where I stick up for many lay Catholics and Sisters and decent priests, the right to build the "Mosque" in NYC, etc.

You have a reputation for going into religion threads and doing what you're doing.

What is your stance on the "Faux Mosque" in NYC? Hmmm?

[whathehell]

127. Sorry...you weren't discussing what I said because I never

SAID what that poster seems to think I did...You might want to re-read the post.

I never said that "all atheists and agnostics had a bad experience with religion"..Okay?..I made supposition about HER, qualifying it with the word "probably", based on my own experience.

"You have a reputation for going into religion threads and doing what you're doing"...Oh my!..Maybe my mother wear combat boots, too, lol!

Apart from the fact that I couldn't care LESS about my "reputation" here, especially among some of the nastiest and most intolerant people on this board, you've made another error!...This isn't a "religious thread"...It's an atheist thread, started by someone who said "fuck all religion!".

Since she started out by attacking "arrogance"...a credible complaint, imo, I aked her why she didn't just say "Fuck all arrogance"?....She responded by calling religion "shite" and answered my suggestion for mutual tolerance between believers and non, by basically calling all believers "stupid", saying she doesn't "tolerate stupidity".

Sorry, but I'd call that flame-bait.


:shrug:

[whathehell]

126. self - delete.

[mzteris]

150. okay - maybe "stupid" is a harsh word -

how about "unenlightened".

Believe me, when you face up to reality - and you look back - it is with such a sense of wonder. As in "HOW IN THE F! could I have ever believed something like that for so long?!?!? It just doesn't make sense!!"

I know people hate this analogy- but it truly does fit so well - it's like when you find out about Santa Claus, and you look back on your childhood and think, "oh my - how could I have not realized how silly that was?!?" and then you get older and there's a little bit of "fond nostalgia" for old Santa, but as far as "religion" goes, when you take the blinders off, you can truly see it for what it is and how it has harmed so many for so long in the "name" of something good and supposedly holy yet the dark underpinnings are there if you just look.

[mr blur]

105. Sorry, tolerance of delusional fantasy IS stupid. And Hitler was a Catholic.

Just like the insane christian halfwits in your government/country he believed he was doing his god's will.

[whathehell]

112. Then you shouldn't tolerate the religionists in your OWN country, and I understand there's not a few

Duh. Recently, your government had to keep BENNY HINN, for fucks sake, out of your country, despite his many Brit "fans" awaiting his lucrative appearance.

Your government kept him out, but, obviously, the DEMAND was there!....I don't even KNOW anyone, who would do anything but LAUGH at Hinn, so clearly you've got a lot of "delusional fantasists" of your own to deal with.

Hitler, like the vast majority of people, especially at that time, was BORN into a family with a religios tradition -- That doesn't make him a "practitioner", anymore than it does you..Duh.

The idea of any and all religion as a "delusional fantasy" is a bigoted "delusion" of your own...Get over yourself.

[mzteris]

152. didn't hitler want to join the

ministry at one point in his childhood? Didn't he take the "swastika" from the gates of the church school he attended?

HE thought of himself as a devout practitioner - and that killing Jews was the lord's work.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mzteris]

17. Religion is the root of all evil. n/t

[whathehell]

35. Nah...Greed is. n/t

[mzteris]

41. same diff... n/t

[whathehell]

51. How is it "the same"?

[mzteris]

53. ever go to church without them asking you for money? n/t

[proteus_lives]

58. Yes.

[mzteris]

60. were they open?

:rofl:

[malaise]

65. Getting up off the floor

:rofl:

[proteus_lives]

99. More then you'll ever be.

;-)

[mzteris]

143. been there, done that, got the pin . . .

found my mind and lost my childhood indoctrination.

It feels good to be a grownup.

[LostinVA]

111. oh no you didn't

:rofl:

[whathehell]

68. How many places can one go without being asked for money?

You're either paying for it on the front end, or on the back end in taxes, or, in the case of non-profits, "donations".

[Bluenorthwest]

83. Um, no. The love of money is the root of all evil. not money,

not greed, but the love of money, which is a form of worship, and active emotion toward the object of material exchange. Gosh, it is your 'faith' and you can not even quote it right. Way to respect that text!

[whathehell]

132. Umm, no...but I'm curious..How would you know what my "faith" is?

Care to tell me?

Obviously, you think I'm a Christian, which merely strengthens my argument that most claiming to be "against all religion" on this board are simply anti-Christian...They like to talk about all "the destruction" being caused by "Christianity"...but kinda "overlook" the decades of fighting going on in the middle east among muslims and jews, for instance.

Honey,..I don't really HAVE a faith...I'm agnostic...I simply HATE the bigotry I see here regarding religion, most notably, Christianity...You can believe that or not..Couldn't care less.

[mzteris]

153. YOU? an agnostic?

:rofl:

I don't believe THAT for one second.

[whathehell]

157. YOU...know what agnosticism IS?

:rofl:

[mzteris]

159. *I* know what it is,

and I'm pretty sure, you don't fit that definition.

[whathehell]

162. oooooooh...I'm shaking with self-doubt!

..If it's not clear by now, dear, I'm really not very impressed with you and don't care what you think of me!

I think you'll be okay, though..We all grow up sometime.

So, again..Goodbye and good luck...and I mean that sincerely.:hi:

[proteus_lives]

56. Hyperbole is the root of all evil.

[mzteris]

61. Not engaging in hyperbole.

Just stating the facts. How many millions of lives have been destroyed by "religion"? How many wars? How many atrocities? How many murders? How many acts of depravity? All based on "religion". How many hate filled acts? How many acts of discrimination? How many insults and rejections and hurt? And no - the so-called acts of goodness don't even begin to close the gap to make up for the evil that has been done in the name of "religion".

[whathehell]

134. Again....

Do you KNOW how many people Stalin killed?....Do you even know who he IS?

Stalin killed tens of millions of people in the name of communist ideology, and POWER!..Duh...I don't want to do much remedial education, here..But you REALLY need a better understanding of world history!

[mzteris]

144. WTF does Stalin have to do with this conversation?

Not a damn thing.

I never said ALL bad things came from religion, I said ALL religion does bad things!

[whathehell]

147. Nothing, by your lights, since it doesn't suit your purposes!

and btw, your "point" if it can be called that, was answered hours ago.

It goes like this: ALL human institutions, like all humans, DO BAD THINGS at some point!...Duuh.

[mzteris]

155. you're trying to derail the argument -

what evil wreaked by Stalin has nothing to do with whether or not "religious institutions" committed evil acts.



Ok - I grant that "ALL human institutions, like all humans, DO BAD THINGS at some point!" but RELIGIONS CONTINUE TO DO "BAD THINGS" OVER AND OVER AND OVER and over AGAIN -- (AND they get a tax exempt status to do so in this country!!) and they do it with IMPUNITY and with the sanction of people like you who give them a pass because it's the "church"...

[whathehell]

156. Um..I don't need to "derail the argument"....I don't even need to have it.

Maybe you should relax..breathe deeply....You sound like your head is about to explode.

Religions have done good things as well as bad...Whether they've done more good than bad is a matter of discussion, one I doubt I could have with someone like you. BTW, other institutions like governments, for instance, "CONTINUE TO DO BAD THINGS "OVER AND OVER AND OVER and over AGAIN"...and they do it with IMPUNITY, too"!..Hyperbole noted, lol!

I don't believe in "tax exempt" status for churches and I give no one a "pass"..Then again, I don't ignorantly lump all religions TOGETHER, either.

I'm not defending "the church", "the mosque" or "the synogogue"...I mean you ARE talking about ALL religions, right:eyes: You wouldn't be one of those anti-Christian bigots, would you?.

I believed you've already answered my question...Good night and good luck:hi:

[mzteris]

160. for someone who doesnt t "need to have it" - you sure are

making a whole damn lot of posts annoying a lot of people about it.

Yes, on occasion "religions" have "done good things" - so did Hitler and Stalin, I'm sure (to use your comparison). I also fight against the bad done by government as well. I especially try to enlighten ignorant Republicans because they "know not what they do".

I'm against ALL religions.

[whathehell]

161. Yeah...Sorry about that.

I don't need to continue the argument as I'm satisfied at having made my point.


In truth, you sound young, immature an in need of more education.

...But good luck with that!:hi:

[mzteris]

163. I'm older than you are.

I have a nearly 30 year old daughter. FYI - I graduated summa cum laude

[Bluenorthwest]

84. Hyperbole is the central mode of humor in the New Testament

Yet few know that, or are able to tell what is supposed to be funny from what is supposed to mean bussiness.

[el_bryanto]

18. Fuck all religion . . . one at a time or like . . .

Do we have to do Taoism too or does that count as a philosophy?

Bryant

[malaise]

20. LOL

:hi:

[Lance_Boyle]

23. If you try to fuck taoism your wang bends like a reed. n/t

[Gormy Cuss]

29. ROFL. Out of 4000+ posts I do believe this is your best post. n/t

[whathehell]

27. "Philosphy" here is code for "a religion we like"....not Christianity

It's Chrisitianity most atheists here hate, really.

You'll rarely find an anti-Jewish comment, for instance and if you were witness to the hysterics regarding the supposed "bigots" who opposed establishing a NYC Muslim community to put a Mosque/Community center near ground zero...That would be patently obvious to you.

[el_bryanto]

37. I've been writing about the Mosque hysterics for a week

So I am aware of that.

I was just goofing on the phraseology - in fairness, I'd go to bed with Taoism any day of the week - Philosophy or Religion. I doubt I'd be comfortable with Nietzschism, on the other hand.

Bryant

[whathehell]

39. Good for you.....Awareness has been in short supply here, lately. n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

45. It was "fuck all religion" What part of that, didn't you understand?

:shrug:

[whathehell]

76. What part of "you're responding to the wrong post" do YOU not "understand"?

Genius:silly:

[whathehell]

77. And this is "fuck all atheistic bigots "..What part of that do YOU not understand?

:shrug:

[whathehell]

34. Fuck Rastafarianism....LOL. n/t

[whathehell]

38. Malaise is having a little problem here, I think...LOL

:hi:

[malaise]

66. I am capable of separating music from religion

Marley for me is music. I have no problem - sorry.

[whathehell]

70. Really?...Then perhaps you should try separating religion from the multitude

of OTHER human/intellectual endeavors as well...You might then appear a little brighter and less bigoted yourself...Sorry.

[Bluenorthwest]

88. Odd that the 'religious person' is the nasty name caller

in the thread. Actually, not odd, but typical.

[whathehell]

92. Really?....Who was the first person to say they couldn't tolerate

"atupidity"...Meaning any viewpoint which was other than atheistic?

Better re-read the thread again.

[fascisthunter]

116. for a religious person you seem very angry and nasty...

where's that spirituality?

[whathehell]

124. Oh Sure...You haven't noticed the "angry" and "nasty" posts of the atheists, including

the one who started this thread.

Hint: "Fuck all religion!" and calling all religions (and by association all those who believe in them) "stupid"..really is NOT a peace and love statement, LOL!

Talk about selective attention!

BTW..I'm not a "religious" person. I'm an "agnostic". I simply don't like BIGOTRY in any form.

[ieoeja]

21. I have no idea what this is about.

I would guess Iraq or Afghanistan except that the United States existed as an independant country before either of those.

Going back 5000 years doesn't give us too many options: Greece, India, China. That's about it. I would include Egypt except that the original Egyptians were pretty much wiped out by the Arabs. Certainly their native religion (mostly Christian at the time) was forcibly replaced.

Israel might qualify. It hasn't existed continually, but it did then and does now.

[Caliman73]

49. That's what I was thinking...

What 5000 year old religion is still practiced today that is causing global conflict? Fucking Zeus!!

[malaise]

71. This is not about 'independence'

This is about a civilized cultural space that is over 5,000 years old.
This is about looted museums, bombed mosques and the slaughter of its citizens by architects of an illegal war and occupation. This is about turning back a society of secular professionals both male and female. This is about Fallujah and cancer. This is about bullies, arrogance and hubris.

[Caliman73]

97. Ah, I see. One suggestion.

You needed to have stated that more clearly in your OP.

Yes the United States has been a major player in cultural and economic colonialism since we were just out of diapers. Our country has acted and acts in ways that are detrimental to other sovereign nations for our economic benefit, and religion has been an effective tool for inspiring soldiers and missionaries to go out and "civilize" areas that were already in existence long before us. There is a great amount of arrogance within our power structure that permeates to the average citizen and makes people shout, "We're #1!!" or "USA!, USA" without really understanding that we aren't #1 in many things and that while we do have admirable qualities, we are not the best, purest, most heroic, etc... nation in history. There has always been a struggle between those people who believe we should look inward and feel we need to put our own house in order and those who believe that we are exceptional and thus charged with spreading our ideology to the rest of the world.

The difficulty with that struggle these days is that any criticism of our history or present actions is met by the insinuation or straight up accusations of being unpatriotic or even traitorous.

[malaise]

108. That's a very thoughtful response

although I don't see why I should have stated anything about independence in my OP. Thank you.

[slackmaster]

104. self-delete

wrong location

[david13]

22. Many have long thought that religion is the root of all evil. It sure

is the root of much evil. Not all. And I do not think it ever does much good.
If a person is a good person, why would they need religion to add anything to that. It is not the religious veneer that makes them good is it? Either they are good or not good.
And those that are bad people, are so with the benefit of doses of any and all religion, or even using the religion as a cover.
A cloak to hide their badness.
dc

[alterfurz]

25. Steven Weinberg: "I think that on the balance the moral influence of religion has been awful...

...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil. But for good people to do evil--that takes religion."

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. -- Pascal

[malaise]

26. Perfect

I want no part of any religion

[DireStrike]

63. That quote is from Pascal, of Wager fame?

Now I'm all confused. I guess I have to read that thing and maybe some of his other works.

[alterfurz]

64. yes--Blaise Pascal, Pensées #894 or 895, depending on differing editions

The famous wager is #233

[whathehell]

33. Many, possibly more, have thought of money as the root of all evil.

Greed is decidedly the root of much evil.

[david13]

42. How about the greedy, money hungry religious hucksters on tv,

always crying, begging, cajoling, b s ing, praying and other stuff for ... money.
dc

[whathehell]

52. Televangelists are a very small minority of clergy....Think of all

the greedy, scamming hucksters of NO religion?...They're hardly scarce in THIS capitalistic society!

[Bluenorthwest]

93. Cleric of the week Franklin 'Obama's Muslim Seed' Graham

Runners up this week include the Koran burner in Florida, and the esteemed Alveda King who equated civil rights equality with genocide. Clerics in the news. Currently. Good stuffs.

[whathehell]

95. Yeah...They're in the news and that's why you know them..

..Care to imagine what PERCENTAGE of clerics they represent?.

Or are do ya just know "what's on the teevee"?..

[Bluenorthwest]

89. This is about religion, which is not about what 'many have thought'

The Biblical verse in question says 'the love of money is the root of all evil'. Not money, not greed, but love of money. Greed and love of money are not the same thing. This is religion, quotations and hair splitting are of utmost importance.

[whathehell]

122. Since when do you take the Bible's word for anything, lol?

Sorry...I'd say that "love of money" and "Greed" are a lot closer than a mainstream protestant is to Christian Dominionist...If you actually know anything about either.

[TheKentuckian]

28. Religion is the excuse people give for doing great evil so nobody notices them stuffing their pocket

and the excuse given by those with no evil intent because they don't wish to take on the hard task of dealing with the mad fuckers stuffing the loot in their pockets.

I don't even believe in organized religion, haven't been to a church other than for a wedding, funeral, or to appreciate the architecture in 25 years but the finger pointing and nastiness ain't right by a long shot.

As long as an us and them can be set up, you got you a hell of a shot at a war.

[whathehell]

40. Thank you, TheKentuckian...It's time someone called out the anti-religion Bigots.

especially since they seem to get a "pass" by the mods.

[david13]

43. The only problem is that the major part of the religion is ...

bigotry. The religion is in many cases, the bigotry.
So what you are saying, is, we should not be against discrimination, or racism, because then we would be anti.
True evil is when good men do nothing. And we need to speak out against the bigotry of religion.
The bigotry that religion is.
dc

[whathehell]

50. What religion are you talking about?...

They are NOT all the same!...and even if they were, one could make an excellent case that "bigotry" exists quite independently of "religion"...

People of all cultures, races, etc. fear that which is "different". It can, as an African American scientist once pointed out, be seen, even in nature. An example, she said was a "litter" of bugs. If the group are all black with one white bug, the black bugs kill the white one.

Recognizing one's "own tribe" was a trait which served as a survival mechanism for our ancestors. Countering that with exposure, information and education may always be a "need" rather than a wholly natural response.

[mzteris]

55. ALL of them.

Every. single. damn. one.

[whathehell]

69. Really?....and how familiar you were with "all" the religions of the world....

What can you tell us, for instance, about the Shinto religion, Zen Buddhism, the Hindu religion, the B'hai faith, Zoroastrianism?

[mzteris]

85. none of those are innocent, either.

Ch'an - maybe a little less "guilty" on an overall level...

You can't name ONE religion that has not been guilty of harming others at some point in history.

[whathehell]

94. I challenge you to find one human INSTITUTION that's not been

"guilty of "harming others" at some point in history....Are you up to it?



Hint: Get over the grudge that's keeping you from a broader perspective.:eyes:

[mzteris]

149. I have no grudge...

I have intelligence. I outgrew naivety. (Okay - so it took until I was in my forties, but hey! better late than never!)

So just because "everyone's doing it" makes committing acts of depravity and degradation OK?? I'm sorry, I don't buy that EXCUSE.

[Caretha]

98. But you are wrong, they are all the same

I always go to an expert when I have questions, someone I respect, someone who I think was very very wise.

So much blood has been shed by the Church because of an omission from the Gospel: "Ye shall be indifferent as to what your neighbor's religion is." Not merely tolerant of it, but indifferent to it. Divinity is claimed for many religions; but no religion is great enough or divine enough to add that new law to its code.
- Mark Twain, a Biography

Think about it

[malaise]

107. You know I find Mark Twain's Letters from Earth

way more important than all the so called holy books.

[whathehell]

136. Wow.....What a surprise.

Alert the media!:rofl:

[malaise]

146. Read them

for yourself.

[whathehell]

148. I've HAVE read them

Duhhh.

[whathehell]

114. I've not only thought about that, I've thought beyond it...and no, I'm not wrong

You could argue that they are all the "same" in so far as their "value"...

In so far as their practices, they are "different"...These differences are striking, even within Christianity, itself. Mainstream protestants are generally: pro-choice and certainly anti-violence.
Some are actually progressive, naming women and gay clergy...They DECIDEDLY do not practice the nonsense meted out by the "rapturists" the Dominionists, etc....

I know, You don't see um much on the teevee because hell, their not "controversial"...If you don't yet know that, as President Obama said "Television loves a ruckus"...Then I don't know what to tell you. The mainstream and progressive Christians don't provide a handy "hate magnet" for the anti-religionists, so they ignore their existence, preferring, like the news media, to focus on the minority of extremists.

And again, of course, all the emphasis is about the blood shed by the "Church"...Yes, there was blood shed, most of it, about FIVE HUNDRED YEARS AGO or more -- and no, despite the professed intentions of psychos like Eric Prince, I don't believe the war in Iraq or Afghanistan -- both of which I disapprove of btw, is a "religious war...That's nonsense....It's reasons, if not for "national security" as the government states, are far more likely to be about money.

Judging by the posts here, one would think that the only religion that's "shed blood" is Chrisitanity....Do you have ANY idea how much blood has been shed by OTHER religions? ..Watch "Ghandi" sometime...The bloody conflicts between Hindus and Muslims during the 1940's necessitated the establishment of Pakistan. In addition, the violence of "some" Muslims was also recently demonstrated by the deaths of over three thousand Americans in 2001....I WOULD say that that number EXCEEDS the number of deaths caused by "contemporary Christians"...The anti-Christians will yell about this, of course..but if they want to maintain that only a "few" muslims are violent, they will have to concede that only a "few" right wing Christians are as well.

[malaise]

128. You mean Gandhi? n/t

[whathehell]

130. You've caught me misspelling.....oooooh!

..What a triumph.:rofl:

Oh well...I guess we should celebrate every "win"..However small!

[Bluenorthwest]

90. The religious community attacks my family's rights, Kentuck, so

finger pointing is being nice, and calling them out for this wrong and this slander is necessary until they cease their meddling in their neighbor's lives. So it is your silent excuse making that ain't right by a long shot, the holding of the coats of the haters is not right.

[whathehell]

129. There is no single "religious community"......There are religious communities..Plural

and I'd bet the one you're referring to is The Religious Right.


Once again,:boring: The "religious right" does NOT represent most of Christianity, let alone all religions.

When do you think you will you get honest and start ACKNOWLEDGING this?

[Javaman]

32. it's even more arrogent to think

that a 13 billion year old universe gives one whit about what any of us as to say.

Just poking you in the side. LOL

Cheers!

[malaise]

67. No you're right

I tell hubby all the time that we're as relevant to the universe as ants.

[whathehell]

135. You mean "arrogant'?.

Apparently Malaise is even selective on the misspellings she chooses to call out!:rofl:

[spanone]

36. k&r..

[SammyWinstonJack]

44. WooHoo!

Fuck all religion!


:bounce: :thumbsup:

[Cal33]

48. I wouldn't go that far. But I'd let them screw themselves. :o)

[whathehell]

133. WooHoo!

Fuck atheistic Bigots!

:bounce: :thumbsup:

[Cal33]

47. Mohammed lived from about A.D. 580 to about A.D. 640. Islam

is not quite 1400 years old. And, like Christians, Muslims also have many sects.
And also like Christians, these sects have warred among each other. It
isn't a monolith.

[proteus_lives]

59. Fuck all hyperbole!

[Zoroastor]

72. I didn't watch the Hyper Bowl....

...but fuck it anyway.

[Zoroastor]

73. Remember that study about how the least competent...

...are often the most confident? It explains a lot!

[malaise]

75. Amazing isn't it

Welcome to DU :hi:

[whathehell]

137. Thanks for helping me make my point!

In comparing atheists and agnostics, atheists ARE the "most confident" that there is no god...HA!

P.S. I'm agnostic.

[DainBramaged]

78. Wait for the lectures telling you that they will listen to reason......

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[malaise]

96. Hmmmmmmm

There is at least one on this thread.
My position is when it reaches the stage where I can't call out stupidity as stupidity then it's time I exit this planet.

[whathehell]

142. Hmmmmmmmm

"My position is when it reaches the stage where I can't call out stupidity as stupidity then it's time I exit this planet".

Is that why you've failed to answer post #30?

..Or is it time to simply "exit the planet"?:rofl:

[earth mom]

80. Religion is the devil. It is destroying our planet bit by bit.

Spirituality is fine if people keep it to themselves, but I don't want other peoples beliefs pushed on me. I've never understood the amount of hatred most organized religions have for each other. It's insane! If all people worshiped mother earth instead, can you imagine the paradise we would be living in instead of the hell those religious whack jobs with their endless wars are turning our planet into?! :argh:


Nature is my religion.

[whathehell]

131. Religion is "the devil"..ooooh..I didn't think atheists or

"mother earth worshippers"....Believed in the "devil"?

"Spirituality is fine if people keep it to themselves, but I don't want other peoples beliefs pushed on me"

I feel the same...The big difference is, I also feel the same way about atheism.

"Atheism is fine if people keep it to themselves instead of "pushing" it, via insult and condescension, on ME...Do we get each other now?

[earth mom]

138. I think that people/ideas/things can BE the devil. It would be awesome if there was a fiery hell

for people like Hitler or * or those who cheerlead the endless wars the U.S. is actively involved in right now.

Karma is a bitch as they say.


As for your feeling so damn persecuted by the scary atheists and agnostics-when the hell is the last time one of them came knocking on your door telling you you'd better change or repent?

Or when is the last time that you heard atheists and agnostics spouting off their beliefs on t.v., the radio or to anyone on the street they felt like telling it too?

The fact is that you are NOT persecuted by atheists and agnostics. We leave you alone for the most part EXCEPT when you all start pushing your shit on us. That's when we fight back! :grr:


Your posts on this thread are full of shit because YOU are the one pushing your religious fanaticism on the rest of us when we already know attitudes like yours are what are killing this planet!

If you can't see that YOU and your religious fanaticism are the reason this OP was started in the first place, then you are either willfully ignorant or blind to the truth or maybe it's just that you like to stir up shit.

[whathehell]

140. Where...Do you find me "pushing religious fanaticism" on this thread or any other?

Please...Specifics.


You won't find any because there are none. Period.

Your laughable comment regarding my supposed view of "scary atheists and agnostics" is made particularly so, because, if you bothered to read the thread, which you haven't, you'd find that I describe MYSELF as an agnostic!...Duuuuh!

"The fact is that you are NOT persecuted by atheists and agnostics"

Bullshit, they persecute non-atheists on this board with gratuitous insults and condescension.

If you can't read the whole thread, at least check the OP...It wasn't STARTED by me, it was started by someone who equated all belief with "stupidity"....That IS persecution, dear! and it's at THAT point that I "fight back" against the bigoted, blanket insults.

By the way, I believe all those equating "atheism" with "intelligence" should read your posts..Such action should relieve them, firmly and finally, of that notion!
:rofl:

[malaise]

154. Ding ding we have a winner

:applause:

[slackmaster]

103. We're attacking Egypt?

:crazy:

[PBS Poll-435]

106. And we are taking their ancient stone kitty/man too!

:shrug:

[slackmaster]

115. Technically, it becomes OUR ancient stone kitty/man

[kwassa]

139. What a bizarre thread.

:banghead: