Hello, DUers! Here's your Friday Afternoon Challenge Question!

[CTyankee]

Okay, what’s the medieval joke in this 14th century painting?
Extra credit: name of work and artist

[gratuitous]

1. In the lower right

The guy in the yellow robe is inviting the guy in the black cloak to pull his finger. As for the artist, it was probably one of those Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

[CTyankee]

3. No, not Donatello...

Good one!

[hamsterjill]

10. A little further to the right

The female figure is scratching her rear end.

[CTyankee]

15. OMG, you are right! That makes TWO jokes in this work!

There are probably more that are lost in the sands of time since the 1300s. However, this one is still known...maybe not to a lot of people but if you have a hint you CAN find it on Google...

[gateley]

2. K&R - I never know but am always interested to see the answer. nt

[CTyankee]

4. At least it's kinda cool to look at!

"Everybody" is in this work!

[Pathwalker]

5. Thank you for these challenges, CTyankee.

I have no idea what the answer is, but I always look forward to learning from them.
Thank you, again.

[CTyankee]

23. Thanks, I have fun doing them! nt

[YOY]

6. Is anyone going to St Yves with seven wives?

Either that or the "Holy Water Sprinkler" in Jebus' hand. (a Mace, the weapon, perversely called "Holy Water Sprinkler)

[CTyankee]

8. Ya know, it is reminiscent of Canterbury Tales...

and I too wonder what the hell is in Jesus's hands, but the only descriptions I have read of this has not mentioned what it is...

[YOY]

11. That's not chauncer...it's an old riddle.

As I was going to St Ives
I met a man with seven wives
Each wife had seven sacks
Each sack had seven cats
Each cat had seven kits
Kits, cats, sacks, wives
How many were going to St Ives?

[CTyankee]

12. Yes, you are right...thanks for the correction!

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

61. Only "I" is going to St. Ives,

The rest could be leaving....

[EFerrari]

7. Some kind of inversion of social order

with the Princes of the Church at the lowest level? Blessed are the poor in spirit?

I don't know but you know what, that looks just like a Renaissance theater. :)

[CTyankee]

9. This is pre Renaissance, which is why it has been largely neglected by art

historians who dismiss it as "second rate." I think it is beautiful. It also seems to exist as some kind of social document of the 14th century...everybody shows up for the play...which gives rise to the joke...

[EFerrari]

19. Right. The funny thing about the Renaissance

is that it spent most of its energy proving how expansively humanist it was in medieval forms. Shakespeare and the prose writers were outliers. Thankfully, outliers who took hold.

The levels match the different levels of the English and Spanish 16th & 17th C physical theaters closely. The same template was envisioned as the progress of the soul, the human body, the Church, the world, oh -- and more recently, Macy's.

lol

[CTyankee]

20. I really think this work is firmly rooted in the Gothic...probably the Italian or Trecento

Gothic, but perhaps the International. It's probably why the critics don't like it. It is too "stuck in the past" when actually it celebrates what is most beautiful about the Gothic eras...sad to see it thrown away...

[blogslut]

13. Does the joke have something to do with the Items Jesus is holding?

Looks like a hammer and a playing card.

[CTyankee]

16. No.

[Duer 157099]

14. Interesting painting

So the lower level is the earthly realm with it's princes and priests. The middle seems to be showing some sort of persecution, those "little people" underground who are heading towards... ? the gates of heaven? Is that St. Peter helping people approach the gate? Or is that gate some earthly thing? All those people (regular sized) behind the gate watching the arrival of those little people... what's that about? Those are the saints already in heaven, welcoming the new arrivals?

:shrug:

Can't wait to see the answer

[CTyankee]

18. The "journey" you describe is part of the basic idea of this painting...

[Duer 157099]

21. Is it some sort of commentary about the Church standing between

the people and their God? Like, that only through the intercessions of the priesthood that one can approach heaven?

This would be prior to the Protestant Reformation when the Bible was put into the common man's hands to read for himself, and to pray for himself without the need for the priesthood.

Was this artist commenting on that, presaging the Reformation? :shrug:

[CTyankee]

25. No, if anything the EXACT opposite!

[Renew Deal]

17. Your father wears full length dresses!

:evilgrin:

[Wilber_Stool]

22. Damn.

It's like the Sgt. Pepper cover.

[CTyankee]

24. Yeah, kinda...a medieval one at that! However, the joke is NOT in identifying

an individual...

[EFerrari]

26. The War in Heaven as seen by Stephen Colbert?

:rofl:

[CTyankee]

27. If he is Roman Catholic, he'd have a guess...

[EFerrari]

29. Like Christmas, because the throne is empty?

ETA: It's not empty but the Christ is there plus halo.

I got nothing.

[CTyankee]

28. HINT: the joke has to do with one group of identifiable people. nt

[Call Me Wesley]

30. Cappellone degli Spagnoli.

"Allegory of the Active and Triumphant Church and of the Dominican order," I think (Google gave me that title I have to admit.) Andrea Bonaiuti aka Andrea da Firenze.

The joke is probably the insight of the design of the Dome of Florence by Arnolfo di Cambio, before Brunelleschi ever did it.

On edit: Some Catholic hipsters along with Francesco Petrarca? I have a limited edition book of his poems.

:hi:

[CTyankee]

34. but the joke here?

[Call Me Wesley]

37. I edited:

Petrarca amongst some Catholic boys? ;)

Ahhh, you mean Benedictus IX? :rofl:

[CTyankee]

39. nope...

[Call Me Wesley]

47. Hmmm ... the Non-Christians portrayed there?

Otherwise, I give up. :cry:

[CTyankee]

53. no, there is a reference to Jews but it is more pointed to their enlightenment...nt

[Call Me Wesley]

55. Have to abstain, because of late time here.

But glad I got a little to play this time. Thanks for the thread! :hi:

[nc4bo]

31. Why are all the priests, nuns, Pope, church all squished into the left hand corner

The dogs don't even want to be over there with 'em.

Have no idea but it is an interesting work.

[EFerrari]

32. The higher up you go, the fewer prelates there are. nt

[nc4bo]

33. So I guess they lost their free pass to heaven?

Joke but seriously - this painting has a message.

[CTyankee]

36. Seems to be instructional...nt

[nc4bo]

43. So it seems if you believe in God alone and not in "the church"

you're more than likely to get a pass.

[CTyankee]

46. Oh, no! Oh,dear...nt

[nc4bo]

48. I know, I know.

:D

[EFerrari]

40. Clergy were notorious consumers of the 7 deadlies

in a lot of medieval literature.

[CTyankee]

44. Four of them are in one of the middle panels...check out the lady with the monkey.

She "Lust."

[nc4bo]

45. True. Nothing like hiding your sins or validating your sinful ways than behind a cross. nt

All powerful religion. Sorta reminds me of how today's fundies would like the world to go back to.

[petronius]

35. My google-fu has found the artist, but I've yet to figure out the joke

:shrug:

[CTyankee]

38. eventually, you will...

[Duer 157099]

41. "Suffer the little children to come unto me"?

For such is the kingdom of heaven.

Only the childlike will enter heaven, leaving the priesthood behind?

[CTyankee]

42. I don't think the priests in this work are "not helping" folks get into heaven.

If anything, they're doing the exact opposite...

[Duer 157099]

50. Yes, now I get it. They are PUSHING them, against their will, in

So *that's* what is meant by the "suffer" part of "suffer the little children..."

[nc4bo]

51. Is that why the man in the lower right corner has his hands over his ears?

Because he doesn't want to hear what the Saint is reading?

[Duer 157099]

49. Is the joke about the Dominicans being portrayed as dogs?

The title is The Church Militant and Triumphant

[CTyankee]

52. In what way, Charlie?

[Duer 157099]

58. Because God spelled backwards is Dog?

LOL, no, kidding.

But I'd bet it has something to do with the Dominicans being known as God's Dogs.

edit: also, the Dominicans were very er "evangelical" about the Inquisition... more like attack dogs than guard dogs.

[CTyankee]

60. Do you know Latin?

[Duer 157099]

62. Not really but I suppose it doesn't translate n/t

[Call Me Wesley]

59. Domini-Canes?

That's really my last attempt ...

[CTyankee]

63. You MADE it to the finish line! Congrats, Wes!

The black and white dogs at the bottom echo the black and white robes and habits of the Dominican order. Members of this order were called “hounds of the Lord” for their vigorous preaching of the Catholic faith and “dogging” the doubters or those in error. It is thought by some art critics that the dogs pictured in this painting were considered fashionable in their day.

Hey, Wes! How did you know where this was and what it was? Have you been to the Santa Maria Novella church in Florence?

[Call Me Wesley]

70. My, I'm pretty familiar with Dominicans, but you made it way hard. ;)

Since in this fresco there were non-christians, some pope named Benedictus and even Petrarca, so I thought this was about it, until you concentrated on the dalmatians, errrm, dominicans ... ;)

And yes, I was there. Although it was a long time ago. Which is strange, since it's only a two hours drive from here and the birthplace of my ancestors. I'll have to visit again.

Nighty night from afar! :hi:

[Solly Mack]

66. It's a play on the name of the order: Dominican/ Domini Canes/Cani (latin) - dogs of the lord

The Dominican order was the strong arm order - seeking out heritics and ah..re-educating them...so to speak.

[CTyankee]

68. Yep, sorta shepherding them up to heaven (one way or another)...nt

[Solly Mack]

69. and that woman isn't scratching her butt..she's hiding papers

most likely hiding words that would be considered heresy.

[damntexdem]

71. Domini canes?

The hounds of the Lord?

[End Of The Road]

54. Is that a bearded lady in there?

Right middle, next to violin player.

[CTyankee]

56. No, that's a guy. I think he's "Pride."

[End Of The Road]

57. Pretty wussy hat he's wearing!

I love these Friday challenges. Please, somebody, come up with the answer! I've got work to do!

[CTyankee]

65. See above...all done...go back to work now...

[End Of The Road]

72. Nah -- I had to google Dominican Habit to see if it looked like the dogs!

Thanks CTYankee!

[CTyankee]

74. Yeah, well, the black and white thing...

[Pathwalker]

64. Does it have something to do with the 7 deadly sins?

I'm not Catholic, and can't see well enough to figure out the joke. Ah well...

[CTyankee]

67. There is so much going on in this thing that it is hard to find one thing!

Domini-canes is the correct answer as Wesley got it...I knew that once he had the artist and the location it would be easy to find the joke, which is really a pun...a play on words...

[CTyankee]

75. The four seated people on the middle right are identified as

"Pleasure" (playing a stringed instrument), "Pride" (all in white), "Lust" (woman in red with a monkey on her lap!) and one other that I don't remember...

The smaller dancing ladies beneath them represent the Arts and Sciences. Or at least so say the books I've researched...

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

73. The guy in the white hoodie left his pants at home?