Opt Out! For all parents of high school aged kids!

[proud2BlibKansan]

If you are the parent or guardian of an 11th- or 12th-grader enrolled in public school, please read on.

According to the No Child Left Behind Act, your school must release your child's contact information on demand to military recruiters. But if you act now, you can stop these recruiters from invading the privacy of your home by trying to convince your child to join the military. To say "no" to the school's release of your child's information, you must inform the school in writing of your desires no later than Sept. 20.

Print and sign this generic form if you do not have a form available in your enrollment packet: http://www.leavemychildalone.org/lmca_forms/Opt_Out_Form_Schools.pdf

[postulater]

1. Thanks.

My daughter is sixteen. I'll send it in just to let them know to stay away.

She's smart enough to make her own decisions but if she wants to enlist I would want her to seek it out rather than be solicited like an athlete.

[cleanhippie]

2. "Recruiters invading the privacy of your home"........

Really? Recruiters are just going into peoples homes now?

[david13]

3. Wouldn't surprise me. The military has been desperate for more

cannon fodder for some time now. Not all american youth are stupid enough to want to go over there and get "blowed up real nice" for no good reason.
dc

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. Wouldn't surprise me in the least

Back when my kids were teenagers, the recruiters didn't have the legal access they have now. But they called and when I said to stop calling, they called when my husband and I weren't home. They sent gift card in the mail. They visited the schools and asked for my kids by name. They came to our house when we were at work. I came home one day and found one in my living room. And that was AFTER I called and reported them for harassment.

[babsbunny]

9. yes they are.............

My Son had a friend in the Army, the Army recruiters get names, they come knockin' on doors.

[cleanhippie]

24. Do you feel that same way about door knocking

evangelicals? Politicians?

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. I do

I tell religious people to leave. I tell my local party to tell candidates not to knock on my door. And if a republican ever knocks on my door, i laugh and shut the door. (During campaign season, I have signs in my yard. I am also an elected precinct chair for the county Democratic party. That is public information. So it's just stupid for any republican to knock on this door.)

[cleanhippie]

57. Fair enough.

Bonus points for consistency and extra credit for being active in politics! :)

[Caretha]

77. Are you the purity police?

[cleanhippie]

78. Didn't know there was such a thing, so no.

If you want to accuse me of doing something or have a problem with me for some reason, just come on out and say it. Don't beat around the bush with sophomoric insults.

[City Lights]

29. Absolutely! nt

[northernlights]

33. if they release the kid's contact information

that would sound like invading the privacy of their homes.

Contact information generally includes address and phone. So they're going to stuff your mailbox with crap, leave messages on your voicemail/answering machine, and could potentially join the 7th Day Adventists and go door-to-door with crap in hand.

[JerseygirlCT]

38. Calling...

Which I view as invasive if I haven't invited the call.

[exboyfil]

4. Do they have more access to information than

colleges for example? If so then this is wrong, otherwise what is wrong with it? A part of the law reads as follows:

(3) SAME ACCESS TO STUDENTS- Each local educational agency receiving assistance under this Act shall provide military recruiters the same access to secondary school students as is provided generally to post secondary educational institutions or to prospective employers of those students.

I don't any information should be released without permission being granted, but the recruiters should have the same access as colleges and employers.

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. Do college recruiters lie to kids?

[exboyfil]

12. Yes actually they do

Hey its a good idea to borrow $50K to $100K to get credentialed for a job making $30K (if you can even get that job). Some colleges are good but others are not so good. Many men and women benefit from service to their country. Some do not. I am thankful for those who are willing to serve.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. How dangerous is college?

As dangerous as combat?

[exboyfil]

21. Nope but it is the first step to making

wage slaves which is pretty bad as well.

I don't think any information should be released to anyone without the say so of the parents, but I think that our military should have the same rights as any other employer.

[Recursion]

14. Yes. It's called "Sales"

All recruiters do it.

[Indydem]

5. Two things:

1. If your (male) child is following the LAW, he will need to register for selective service soon anyway. The military will have their contact information handy right away, and whether or not the school releases it is irrelevent. If you are worried about your daughter's contact information for some paranoid reason, then by all means, write your letter.

2. If your child is so easily recruitable that a shiny leaflet sent to your house somehow convinces them to join the military, then you have done a piss-poor job as a parent in teaching them critical thinking. If your child is already thinking about serving, then depriving the military of their contact information isn't going to stop them from seeking out the information they want.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. I take it you haven't dealt with many recruiters

They are vultures.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. I have met several recruiters in the antiwar movement

The stories they tell are horrific.

[Recursion]

16. I'm certainly glad I enlisted, overall

I don't think having them at the college/career fairs like everybody else is a bad thing.

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. But that's not the only place you will find them

They started contacting my kids when they were 14. Until then, I had no problem with my kids looking at all of their options. My husband is a veteran. We both felt military service was an honorable choice.

But not a choice a 14 year old should make. So we asked them to stop contacting them. That's when we found out what vultures the recruiters were. It took a year - for each kid - to get these assholes to leave our kids alone. And this was BEFORE the current law which gives recruiters even more access.

[Recursion]

22. It's also not a choice a 14-year-old can make

You have be 18, or 17 with your parents' permission.

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. They lie to parents too

[Indydem]

13. Let's assume you are correct:

The recruiters of our armed forces are actually carion devouring birds of doom, and they have decided to target YOUR CHILD for recruitment:

So lets set forth a scenario:

A recruiter tells your child that they will receive all the things that recruiters promise (blah blah blah) they tell your kid that they are going to serve locally and never be deployed, they tell your kid that they have to give up one weekend a month and two weeks per year and Brinks will back up a truck of money to your house and give it to them.

So why is your kid such an idiot that he/she can't figure out that the shiny sales pitch is bullshit? Do they buy every product from every infomercial they see on TV too? What about all the pop-up ads on the internet?

Getting a mailer from the armed forces isn't going to seduce your kid into joining the military. If it does, then like I said, your kid is an idiot, and you have failed as a parent.

If a kid does their own research, chooses to join the military and serves to completion, or to their death, that is their choice. Not every man and woman who serves was seduced by lying recruiters, and not every recruiter is evil.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. Casey Sheehan was told he could be a chaplain

and he would never have to go into combat.

[Cid_B]

30. Also don't forget...

about the part where they put a big plate of steel over the contract as he signed it, most especially over the "needs of the Army" part.

WHAT?! You're saying that didn't happen?

Anyone stupid enough to sign a contract for several years of service without knowing the contents deserves what they get. (i.e. another job)

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. Excuse me? Casey Sheehan DIED.

You think he deserved that. Nice.

[Cid_B]

47. I'll wait patiently for you to complete your reading comp courses...

Also, chaplains and their assistants aren't safe either. Our last chaplain in Afghanistan traveled more than I did and that is saying something.

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. He was told he would never go into combat

The reality doesn't matter. He was lied to. So was his family. The only reason he signed up was for money for college. And he trusted the recruiters.

[WinkyDink]

36. I met with recruiters in a counseling position; I understand THEIR jobs are on the line, also.

HOWEVER, the military is the ONLY "career choice" allowed BY LAW to DEMAND that schools turn over student information to it. To demand by LAW to enter schools to speak with students.

Have you heard of the ASVAB? As of recently, all h.s. juniors had to take this test, the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery, to determine what their suitable job areas would be (ostensibly for all careers, but in reality for military ones).

But lucky you; you cannot be persuaded by advertising, false or true.

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. There were several former recruiters who came to Camp Casey

One of them cried.

They told horrific stories.

[WinkyDink]

44. The duped leading the duped. Very sad.

[Cid_B]

53. Well thank God...

for your shining beacon of truth and intellect. Really... No one knew what "right" was until you came up and told us poor blind schlubs.

[tsuki]

18. I was thinking the same thing. nt

[PA Democrat]

37. How would you feel about 40 plus phone calls to your home AFTER they were told not to call?

How about recruiting attempts for a child with a developmental disability?

I've experienced BOTH.

Edited to add that check out any high school guidance office and you'll find PLENTY of opportunities to contact military recruiters. Half the time I've been in my kids' high school I've encountered recruiters in the guidance office. So, it's not as though kids who are genuinely interested have no idea how to contact military recruiters.

BTW, my sister came home from work to find a military recruiter IN HER HOME without her consent or knowledge. Do you approve of that situation?

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. They came to my house too

It took a year to get them to stop calling. One of them even called me at work one day to explain why he really needed to talk to my 14 year old son. I asked to talk to his supervisor and he hung up on me.

This was BEFORE the current law that gives them access.

[PA Democrat]

50. We opted out and STILL got phone calls.

The school said they did not release my son's information, but we have an unlisted number, and he would never have voluntarily given the info to a recruiter. This was at the height of the Iraq invasion and our entire family was adamantly opposed to going into Iraq from the start.


I forgot to opt out for my daughter since she will not be graduating with her classmates due to her disability. I got a phone call last week for her from a recruiter. I told them she had autism and not to call again. I'm not holding my breath.

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. They pay the other kids for their friends' numbers

If they get your kid's contact info, your opt out is just a joke to them. The only thing it does is bans the school from giving out the info. So the recruiters work other avenues to get it.

[PA Democrat]

56. That was my suspicion because my son's best friend enlisted.

The recruiter started to "hang out" with this kid and asked to tag along when he did something with his friends. My son made it a point to tell him that he would not do anything with him if he brought the recruiter along. The guy was in his thirties and wanted to hang out with 16 and 17 year-olds. Creepy on many levels.

BTW, the recruiter lied to this kid which he discovered sometime during basic training. He somehow managed to get out with an honorable discharge before completion of basic training.

[T Wolf]

10. Work through the school as well. Demand that the school notify every parent of the opt-out option.

At the beginning of the school year, this often gets overlooked.

Make the call. And keep at it until the school does it.

PS - my guidance counselor wife took it on her own to notify the parents. Many did opt out as a result.

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. Good for your wife!

[JerseygirlCT]

39. Ours did

Though I would have known to opt out if they hadn't.

[aikoaiko]

27. Thanks for sharing this important information.

I don't have a problem with recruiters and I certainly wouldn't prevent a recruiter from talking to my son, but parents should still know about their options.

[tomm2thumbs]

28. kick for Saturday

[seabeyond]

31. i have been saying no to that for years. started at least middle school. nt

[vanlassie]

71. I started in kindergarten- not to one up you-just that I never

ever thought children should be accessed by the military through the schools.

[seabeyond]

73. lol well, well,

i just couldnt remember when that started oming out in the package. i remember at least middle school, lol, but too old. cant remember elementary.

it seemed like the had it even then. isnt that sad

not the memory thing. but the recruiting for military thing so young

[HughBeaumont]

32. SUPER rec'd!

This reminds me of the time when I was in HS - my parents continually allowed this Army recruiter to visit our house, even though I made it perfectly clear many times that joining the military factored in my life plans somewhere down near smoking crack, starting a drug cartel or robbing banks.

We're talking every three weeks, this guy would either be at my doorstep or visiting me at school. Phone calls were relentless.

The U.S. military and schools are in cahoots - they especially prey on those with low G.P.A.s or lacking in extra-cirriculars.

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. Recruiters came to my son's school

They were allowed to talk to his band class. One of them claimed some rap musician who was well known at that time was a former marine. My son said no that wasn't true. So he was sent to the principal's office for being rude to the recruiter. The principal threatened to call me, said your mother won't be pleased to hear you were rude to a recruiter. My son smiled and said "I take it you don't know my mom very well."

Principal didn't call me.

We looked it up. The recruiter was lying.

[cowman]

42. Maybe not a rap artist

but there was a famous rock and roller who was an army paratrooper before he broke his ankle, can you name him?

[WinkyDink]

45. Since I've heard of Google: Jimi Hendrix.

[cowman]

48. Man, that was too easy

[proud2BlibKansan]

46. There have been lots of rock stars who are vets

My point is this recruiter was lying to impress the kids in a band class. My son called him on it because he knew it was bullshit.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

43. I opted out for my sons when they entered high school, but when they applied for colleges,

the colleges seemed to have released their names.

I had to repeatedly fend off phone calls, telling recruiters that my sons were in college. The last call was answered by my oldest son for a call made to my youngest. It was the Marines. My oldest son told the recruiter there would be no way they'd want my youngest son to enlist! We haven't heard from any recruiters since.

:rofl:

[cowman]

55. My youngest daughter

invited the recruiter over to talk to them about a career in the military which me and the wife supported because it was her decision. She ended up enlisting in the Army and became a Military Police. She is now a Capt. with 12 years in and we support her 100%.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

60. I'm glad that it worked out well for your daughter and family. My sons have no interest

at all and being a Pacifist, I am delighted that this was one thing in my life that I didn't come across as a conflict.

[proud2BlibKansan]

61. Me too

I think hearing their dad's stories of his time in the army was a turnoff for our kids.

[cowman]

63. In 1968 I received my draft notice

and immediatly contacted the Navy recruiter who told me that if I joined the Navy I would not see ground combat in Vietnam, so I enlisted in the Navy and got interested in the Seabees, went to Seabee school in LA and then was assigned to a Seabee Battalion at Port Hueneme, CA. In 1969 I got orders to a place in Vietnam called Dong Ha in the Central Highlands of Vietnam re-inforcing the Marine base at Con Thien, saw plenty of combatwith the Marines. My dozer was equipped with a .50 machine gun and a gunners seat which told me that we could expect to be in the shit.
Moral of the story is, Don't believe a fucking thing the recruiters tell you, make sure you get it in writing which is what my daughter did and it worked out well for her.

[proud2BlibKansan]

64. That is very good advice

Thank you.

[cowman]

66. And thank you for your service which I assume

by your earlier post, I did retire from the Navy in 98 with 30 years, 4 active, 26 reserve, got called back to duty for Desert Shield/Desert Storm and 1 tour in Afghanistan. My daughter has done 3 tours in Iraq and is set to deploy to Afghanistan in Oct.. Luckily our oldest daughter has no interest in the Military, instead she decided to become a Las Vegas Police Officer which I sometimes think thats more dangerous than the Military. We have no idea why our 2 daughters are such adreneline junkies, maybe because I was a Las Vegas Firefighter/Paramedic for 35 yrs. Just saying

[proud2BlibKansan]

67. I serve in the peace movement

My husband is an army veteran. Vietnam era.

[cowman]

68. The Peace Movement

is a very honorable cause and I support you 100%. Tell your hubby that as one Vietnam era vet to another, thank you for your service.

[Luminous Animal]

49. Recruiter Abuse Hotline

http://afsc.org/resource/military-recruiter-abuse-hotline

1- 877-688-6881

[PA Democrat]

52. Thank you!

[Patiod]

62. The AFSC and the Quakers are a great resource

They will also give you advice about putting together a file which will help prove your kid's case as a CO if there is ever a draft (and if your kid really IS a CO - they're a big help for Quaker kids).

I know that there are a lot of vets and military families on here, and good for them (sincerely), but they need to realize that a lot of us here are pacifists or lean pacifist, and that we don't view the military as the bright and shiny do-no-wrong organization that they do. There are those of us who view it with suspicion, see it as a hungry animal that needs more and more of our young people and our tax dollars, and rejects any sort of normal oversight.

So if some people want to keep high-pressure folks of all stripes (for-profit colleges, religions, military) away from OUR young people, please don't defend the "right" of any of these groups to harass and lie to OUR young people. If you want to encourage your own kids to into the military, good for you. But we deserve the right to keep them away from our kids. If our kids want to pursue that on their own when they turn 18, fine.

"Fortunately" the crap economy has probably changed recruiting, and I'm guessing the military can pick and choose these days, and doesn't have to be as aggressive as they might have been 2-3 years ago...

[Puregonzo1188]

58. When I was in high school (which was not many years ago) we had to fight with the principle

to be allowed to have a table in the cafeteria with those opt-out forms. Funny thing, I don't think the military recruiters ever had that problem.

[uppityperson]

80. We had to fight the school to send them to the kids as they were "too busy"

eventually the local teen peace group made up a bunch of the forms to be told they couldn't distribute them on campus. So they set up a table right off campus and handed out a whole lot of them.

K&R for those who don't know about this being "opt out".

"Don't believe a fucking thing the recruiters tell you, make sure you get it in writing"

[Duer 157099]

59. Thank you. I've printed it out

Although I sometimes wonder if I should use the reverse-psychology trick and start encouraging my 16yo to join up, because God knows he NEVER does anything I want him to!

[Bunny]

65. Oh for chrissake.

My daughter just graduated from high school in June. During her junior and senior years, we received exactly one phone call from a military recruiter. I told them she was not interested in the military and thanked them for calling. We said goodbye, and that was he extent of the recruiting effort. Oh, and she may have received a few pieces of mail from them, too. Hardly anything to get all breathless and worked up over.

[TheKentuckian]

69. Milage varies back in my time they bugged the shit out of us

Most of my friends got themselves scrubbed by claiming to be gay on guy randomly started clapping and went "yip yap yap" over and over at different volumes and tones.

I cruelly set appointments and would just blow them off over and over. Poor Sargent M.... had to hate his beat, my school was a tough, tough row to hoe. I respect the sticktoitivness but it was annoying getting the calls all the time and the drop ins, thank God I worked so I'd almost always miss him at home.

The fuckers are relentless.

[proud2BlibKansan]

74. Good for you

But that is not most folks' experience.

[Liberation Angel]

70. Thanks so much for this. My son is getting to that age

scares the bejesus out of me.

I watched restrepo with him and he will never join under this kind of insanity; but the idea that they can stalk him with the school's help pisses me off and I will opt out.

Much appreciated and K&R

[progressoid]

72. We did it and they still called and sent recruitment letters.

It took a few tries to get it to stick.

[Capitalocracy]

75. Too late to rec, but here's a kick

so people will see this. Thanks.

[alarimer]

76. No one ever called me (this was years before No Child Left Behind)

Because I lied on the ASVAB test, answered so randomly they probably thought I was too stupid even for the Army.

[ipaint]

79. My neice was hounded by a recruiter in high school.

She was living with me at the time. He would not stop calling after repeated request by her mother, me and her. We called our local representative and gave him an earful and asked him to please intervene.

We never got another call.