Top Expert: Geology is "Fractured", Relief Wells May Fail ... BP is Using a "Cloak of Silence"

[nashville_brook]

MODS -- per open-use copyright permission of Washington Blog:
You may reproduce our essays as long as you give proper attribution (Washington's Blog) and provide a link to our site. I've edited for brevity -- brook

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2010/08/top-oil-expert-geology-is-fractured-bp.html



Top Expert: Geology is "Fractured", Relief Wells May Fail ... BP is Using a "Cloak of Silence", Refusing to Share Even Basic Data with the Government


Few people in the world know more about oil drilling disasters than Dr. Robert Bea.

Bea teaches engineering at the University of California Berkeley, and has 55 years of experience in engineering and management of design, construction, maintenance, operation, and decommissioning of engineered systems including offshore platforms, pipelines and floating facilities. Bea has worked for many years in governmental and quasi-governmental roles, and has been a high-level governmental adviser concerning disasters. He worked for 16 years as a top mechanical engineer and manager for Shell Oil, and has worked with Bechtel and the Army Corps of Engineers. One of the world's top experts in offshore drilling problems, Bea is a member of the Deepwater Horizon Study Group, and has been interviewed by news media around the world concerning the BP oil disaster.

Washington's Blog spoke with Dr. Bea yesterday.


WB: Is BP sharing information with the government?
Bea: No. BP is using a "cloak of silence". BP is not voluntarily sharing information or documents with the government.

In May, for example, Senator Boxer subpoenaed information from BP regarding footage of the seafloor taken before the blowout by BP's remotely operated vehicles (ROVs). We still have not received a response 12 weeks later.

(snip)

WB: Are there any conditions at BP's well which might make killing the leak with relief wells more difficult than with the average deepwater oil spill?

Bea: That's an interesting question. You have to ask why did this location blow out when nearby wells drilled in even deeper water didn't blow out.

You have to look at the geology of the Macondo well. It is in a subsalt location, in a Sigsbee salt formation. (For background, see this and this)

The geology is fractured. Usually, the deeper you drill, the more pressure it takes to fracture rock. This is called the "fracture gradient". But when BP was drilling this well, the fracture gradient reversed. Indeed, BP lost all pressure as it drilled into the formation.

WB: Is it possible that this fractured, subsea salt geology will make it difficult to permanently kill the oil leak using relief wells?

Bea: Yes, it could. The Santa Barbara channel seeps are still leaking, decades after the oil well was supposedly capped. This well could keep leaking for years.

Scripps mapped out seafloor seeps in the area of the well prior to the blowout. Some of the natural seeps penetrate 10,000 to 15,000 feet beneath the seafloor. The oil will follow lines of weakness in the geology. The leak can travel several horizontal miles from the location of the leak.

(In other words, the geology beneath the seafloor is so fractured, with soft and unstable salt formations, that we may never be able to fully kill the well even with relief wells. Instead, the loss of containment of the oil reservoir caused by the drilling accident could cause oil to leak out through seeps for years to come. See this and this for further background.)

WB: I know that you've previously said that you're concerned that there might be damage to the well bore, which could make it more difficult for the relief wells to succeed.

Bea: Yes, that's still a concern.

WB: I have heard that BP is underestimating the size of the oil reservoir (and see this). Is it possible that the reservoir is bigger than BP is estimating, and so - if not completely killed - the leak could therefore go on for longer than most assume?

Bea: That's plausible.

WB: The chief electronics technician on the Deepwater Horizon said that the Macondo well was originally drilled in another location, but that "going faster caused the bottom of the well to split open, swallowing tools", and that BP abandoned that well. You've spoken to that technician and looked into the incident, and concluded that “they damn near blew up the rig.” (See this and ).

Do you know where that abandoned well location is, and do you know if that well is still leaking?

Bea: The abandoned well is very close to the current well location. BP had to file reports showing the location of the abandoned well and the new well (with the Minerals Management Service), so the location of the abandoned well is known.

We don't know if the abandoned well is leaking.

WB: Matthew Simmons talked about a second leaking well. There are rumors on the Internet that the original well is still leaking. Do you have any information that can either disprove or confirm that allegation?

Bea: There are two uncorroborated reports. One is that there is a leak 400 feet West of the present well's surface location. There is another report that there is a leak several miles to the West.

(Bea does not know whether either report is true at this time, because BP is not sharing information with the government, let alone the public.)

WB: There are rumors on the Internet of huge pockets of methane gas under the well which could explode. I've looked into this rumor, and have come to the conclusion that - while the leak is releasing tremendous amounts of methane - there are no "pockets" of methane gas which could cause explosions. Do you have any information on this?

Bea: I have looked into this and discussed methane with people who know a tremendous amount about it. There is alot of liquid and solid methane at the Macondo site, but no pockets of methane gas.

WB: That's good news, indeed.

Bea: But there was one deepwater leak I worked with where tremendous amounts of hydrogen sulfite were released. We had to evacuate two towns because of the risk. (I didn't ask Dr. Bea if there were any dangerous compounds which could be formed from the interaction of the crude oil and methane with chemicals in the ocean water or dispersants).

And with the Bay Charman oil leak, more than 50% of the oil stayed below the surface of the ocean. (As I've previously pointed out, the US Minerals Management Service and a consortium of oil companies, including BP, found that as little as 2% of the oil which spill from deepwater wells ever makes it to the surface of the ocean. And the use of dispersant might decrease that number still further).

(snip)

[BrklynLiberal]

1. We are soooooooo screwed....and by "we" I mean the planet as a whole.

[femrap]

5. Mother Nature

has had it with these oil boyz.

[nashville_brook]

15. i think there's an old islamic myth about the djinn being buried in the ground, and how

we should never disturb them b/c they really really hate humans. that "god" put them in the ground (bottled them up) to protect people from them.

something like that. stop...wiki time.

[truedelphi]

35. The ancient peoples of Europe felt that way too.

Druids and Celts and the may earth worshiping tribes of the area now Germany and France.

When coal and other minerals were starting to be brought out of the earth, even as late as the twelve and thirteen hundreds, the folks in the wilderness areas were appalled.

[nashville_brook]

38. there are some amazing ancient temples in the Indus Valley region that are carved

straight down into the earth. like, there's a big hole in the ground with all the rock removed and carved out into a temple complete with rooms and statuary and all sorts of bas-relief.

my first question is how the hell.

but my second and more important one is why. what "god" were they trying to contact by digging down into the earth. plus, it's totally a 180-degree shift from temples as windows to the sky gods.


i can't remember the name of the sites, but here's the thing that reminded of it. on the wiki for djinn, there's a picture of this cave which the locals believed to be a place where you could find djinn:

Omanis living in the area of the Selma Plateau told Cheryl and Don that they didn't have names for any of the holes on the plateau that served as entrances to the caves. So Cheryl gave the cave its name. Omanis believe that jinns<10> live in their caves. If so, then because of its grand size, this chamber surely must serve as their majlis, or meeting place. So "Majlis al Jinn" it became. Later though it was marked that locals call the cave "Khoshilat Maqandeli" from the refuge for goats near one of the entrances. Nowadays locals refer to this cave as Khoshilat Maqandeli, while internationally it is known as Majlis al Jinn<3>.

[JoeyT]

49. Underground deities were revered in a lot of polytheistic religions.

Usually they had something to do with fertility, death, or the "underworld".
Even the Greeks had the Chthonic deities and cults, though offhand I don't recall any underground temples.

[nashville_brook]

60. the more i think about it, the more obvious it becomes...the Underworld!

polytheistic religions started the idea of the underworld which was adopted by xtianity. there was a powerful notion that you shouldn't "mess with stuff down there." the underworld was associated with death and vengeful beasts

[truedelphi]

75. That is quite amazing.

And people forget that all of this was done without steam, or electric power.

No computer assisted modeling.

And just the raw horse power of men and beasts.

[nashville_brook]

78. i need to find pics...this one temple simply blew my mind...was the most amazing thing

i ever saw in any art history class...and that's saying something b/c almost everything is amazing in art history. except Pinky and Blue Boy.

[nashville_brook]

79. AH! you must see this

http://travel2.nytimes.com/2006/11/05/travel/05caves.html

The Holy Caves of India:
check out the slide show. this is a more primitive version of the rock carving temples I had in mind -- the Elora Caves:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellora

[truedelphi]

84. Thanks fo rpsoting. i paln on watching this the first thing

In the Am.

I'm betting it is quite a good way to spend a Monday Morning.

[nashville_brook]

6. we know so little about deep ocean systems, and even less about whole-earth geology

these two unknowns are both at the center of this mess...compounded by oil economy hegemonics...yes, we're fucked.

[Oceansaway]

2. K&R...n/t

[Usrename]

3. This would explain the cone of silence around this disaster.

It also explains what the underwater testing is showing.

[nashville_brook]

8. yes, it's really creepy how all of a sudden the well-capping story disappeared from the news.

it's like when the kids are "too quiet." you know something is not right.

[suffragette]

23. "like when the kids are "too quiet."you know something is not right."

Spot on.

[TheKentuckian]

4. The price of the criminals being in charge of the crime scene will be paid over a long time

We need independent in depth reviews here.

It must be assumed that neither the government nor especially BP can be relied upon for accurate data or assessments of the facts.

[Desertrose]

7. I just keep thinking...what's it gonna take??

This was a perfect opportunity to stop and take a real hard look at what we're doing and where we're going with this insane use of oil and misuse of Mother Earth....

[nashville_brook]

12. it still is that opportunity, and that opportunity is never going to go away --

our work will never be done, but we have to do it nonetheless.

[Desertrose]

20. You're absolutely right...we can't give up.....

or walk away.

*sigh*

[nashville_brook]

25. i walked away for a while, after doing a lot of organizing in college, and then running a newspaper

i was burnt out and broke, and needed to regroup. but i made a serious mistake in that lost touch with my colleagues and had absolutely no support for these interests with the ex. what i learned from this is that it's in my blood and when i'm not doing the work i feel like shit. that, i get strength from the people and work, and running away b/c you're burnt out is actually counter-productive to feeling better.

[another saigon]

44. that would require truth from our government

in order to deal with reality. By letting BP run this whole operation do not expect any truth any time soon.

:(

[Towlie]

9. This isn't professional journalism. The use of "alot" gives it away.

[havocmom]

17. Is that all the criticism that can be mustered against the facts in the blog?

We'll call the OP a win then.

Grammer is not the test of fact. Some of the best written speeches ever given were lies.

[nashville_brook]

28. interviewer is actually an academic who posts anonymously -- Dr. Robert Bea, however

is the person who is important to note in this piece, as it's his research and expertise that is being presented. Here's Dr. Bea's credentials:


Professor at Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering: Berkley
Engineering & Project Management
Ocean Engineering Graduate Program
Co-director:
Marine Technology and Management Group
Center for Risk Mitigation

Professor Bea has 55 years of experience in engineering and management of design, construction, maintenance, operation, and decommissioning engineered systems including offshore platforms, pipelines, and floating facilities. He has been teaching at the University of California at Berkely since 1989.

Education

1956, A. A., Jacksonville University

1959, B. S. in Civil Engineering, University of Florida

1960, Master of Science in Engineering, University of Florida

1969, Harvard Executive MBA Program

1961-1976, Post-graduate studies at Tulane University, Rice University, Texas A&M University, Bakersfield College, and University of Houston

1998-2000, Doctor of Technology Program, Technical and Scientific University of Norway, Trondheim

2000, Ph.D., Center for Oil & Gas Engineering, University of Western Australia


Experience

1954-1959: U. S. Army Corps of Engineers (Engineer-in-Training)

1959-1960: S. S. Jacobs Construction Co. (Construction Estimator)

1960-1976: Shell Oil Company (Manager, Head Office Civil Engineering Group; Chief Mechanical Engineer, Production Division; Offshore Division Construction Engineer, Head Office Production & Financial Control; Royal Dutch Shell Ltd. Production & Financial Control, Shell Development Company (Manager, Offshore Technology Development Group)

1976-1981: Woodward-Clyde Consultants, Ocean Services Division (Vice President, Chief Engineer, Geotechnical, Structural, Environmental, Field Operations)

1981-1989: PMB Engineering - Bechtel Inc. (Vice President, Senior International Consultant)

1989 - present: University of California, Berkeley (Professor)

Primary Expertise

Ocean Environmental Conditions and Forces (earthquakes, wind, waves, currents, mudslides, ice)
Foundations Design and Construction (field explorations, soils testing, piles, mats, pipelines)
Structures Design, Construction, Maintenance, Re-qualification
Reliability & Safety Assessments; Human & Organization Factors in Safety of Marine Systems
Risk Assessment and Management of Engineered Infrastructure Systems
Professional Memberships and Affiliations

National Academy of Engineers
American Society of Civil Engineers
Academy of Management
Honors

New Orleans City Council Proclamation in gratitude for research and efforts in promotion flood protection and to aid in the recovery of New Orleans and Louisiana, 2007
Chancellor's Award for Research in the Public Interest, 2007
Fellow, American Society of Mechanical Engineers, 2005
Life Member, American Society of Civil Engeineers, 2004
Hall of Fame, Risk and Reliability Engineering, Offshore Energy Center, 2003
Ocean, Offshore & Arctic Engineering Division Professional Contributions Award, 2001
Blakely Smith Medal Lifetime Achievements in Ocean Engineering, Society of Naval Architects & Marine Engineers, 2001
Corporate Leadership Award, U.S. Department of the Interior Minerals Management Service, 2000
Offshore Technology Pioneer Award, Energy Center, 1998
Offshore Mechanics & Arctic Engineering Technical Achievement Award, American Society of Mechanical Engineers, 1997
National Academy of Management, 1994
National Academy of Engineering, 1989
Marine Board, National Academy of Engineering, 1989 - 1995
Society of Professional Engineers Project of the Year for 1993
United States Coast Guard Research Commendation, 1992
American Society of Mechanical Engineers OMAE Technical Achievement Award, 1997
Institution of Engineers Australia Eminent Speaker Award, 1990
American Society of Civil Engineers Croes Medal, 1978
Bechtel Fellow Award, 1987
J. Hillis Miller Engineering Award, 1960

[Angry Dragon]

10. The new transparent government we were promised

hard at work.

The year is 2046, and as we look at the map of the US, we find that the lower 1/3 part of this country has no large population centers.
The only population is gathered in small pockets of people unable to leave the area. All others have either died, moved to other locations, or taken the option of moving to FEMA Relocation camps scattered around the country.

More on this Special Report after these fine messages brought to you by your Corporate Masters.

[nashville_brook]

14. funny you should mention this...i've been thinking about The Handmaid's Tale today wrt WikiRape

and add to that the whole "seed of the father" thing wrt to Obama's erstwhile Islamic background...yikes. margaret atwood is a prophet.

[Angry Dragon]

16. This just popped into my mind

Never read The Handmaid's Tale .............

We are losing this country to corporations and the rest of the world is either even with us or just lagging behind a little

[nashville_brook]

22. certainly -- that answers the question of "why" we've always been at war with Eurasia.

b/c someone gets rich from it.

[havocmom]

18. She is not the only sci-fi prophet. Ever read Heinlein?

My oh my did he nail it a time or twenty.

[nashville_brook]

21. indeed -- sci-fi prophets would make a great thread. SO MANY to choose from!!

i'd add Lovecraft, HG Wells, Asimov and Herbert...

here's an article you might like:

http://io9.com/5551875/the-twenty-science-fiction-novels-that-will-change-your-life

Over two years ago, we offered you this list of 20 scifi novels that could transform the way you see the world. Now we're bringing it back for today's io9 flashback.

These are novels that have altered the course of science fiction writing. Or they are simply brilliant at providing a genuinely alien perspective on ordinary life. All of them will rearrange how you think.

These are in chronological order by publication date, not in order of importance. (Remember, this list was originally posted Feb., 2008, so it doesn't include all the life-changing scifi written since then.)

(list of 20 novels at link)

[havocmom]

27. Thanks. Bookmarking that link for mid November

In the meantime, focusing on comedy. There is so much of it around.

[nashville_brook]

29. nothing better than curling up with a great scifi novel as the air gets cool and leaves are falling.

sigh. i'm in mono-season florida now...November is when the humidity goes down to a mere 70% and it's comfortable to start doing things outdoors again. tourist season commences.

[havocmom]

30. I'm in Montana and Ice Planet novels are not hard to identify with come November

Used to live in the southwest. Easy to believe in planet-eating super nova plots there.

[nashville_brook]

32. one of my favorite places in the world is west texas -- big bend park, b/c it's basically martian

[blindpig]

11. Maddening

We are being betrayed.

Kill Capitalism

[DirkGently]

13. Oil companies don't know what they're doing. Or don't care. All this

drilling is a gargantuan ecological experiment with unfathomable risks ... to be determined just as soon as it's too late.

[nashville_brook]

42. with the corporate muckety-mucks i deal with on a daily basis, they've brainwashed themselves

with a steady diet of free market fundamentalism. there really is "no other good" aside from the quarterly report. they just...don't...see...it.

[Octafish]

19. In a democracy, scientists like Dr. Bea would have all the facts at his disposal.

He and the rest of the brains need it to help figure out what to do. If the facts aren't what BP or the politicians want to hear, who cares? This isn't a matter of win-win, this is a matter of surivival.

Thank you for the heads-up, nashville_brook. Thanks also for an outstanding post and thread.

[nashville_brook]

24. "we can't allow the lies to continue just b/c it's inconvenient to someone's money..."

my sweetie on the couch just said this -- :)

[Octafish]

33. Very ''well'' stated.

Great minds:

"One of the things that is interesting about reading conspiracy theory is that much of what folks think is conspiracy is really many people acting in concert to make or protect their money."

-- Catherine Austin Fitts

[nashville_brook]

34. it's no more than the (dysfunctional) nature of the way things "work."

nothing occult or mysterious about it.

[Mimosa]

43. I can picture that's how this would have been coped with in the 1950s. n/t

[Angry Dragon]

26. Follow the money and you will find the lies...........

[Generic Other]

31. Meanwhile at BP's corporate headquarters....

[nashville_brook]

57. everytime i look at that headline, i read "Cone" -- :)

[truedelphi]

36. Very good information. Thank you and a Big K & R. n/t

[nashville_brook]

37. stay tuned -- this story is far from over!

[nc4bo]

40. +1000. nt

[nc4bo]

39. OMG. And what's unimaginable is that we would continue deep water drilling.

Folks, this is taking a crap where you eat and it's absolutely insane.

I have so many questions.

How can BP ignore and continue to ignore requests for information?
How did BP continue using COREXIT when it was told to cease?
Why was BP allowed to bury the oil on beaches instead of cleaning it up?
Why was the media banned from photographing and reporting the amount of sealife killed by BP's actions?
Why has our government given BP full control over any of this, including controlling the flow of information?
Why has BP and our government lied about the existence of the leaked oil?

Why is our government in bed with BP?

:wtf: is wrong with this picture?

Damn it.

[nashville_brook]

46. *they* are shitting where *we* eat -- :)

even worse.

[Catherina]

68. Capitalism my dear. Capitalism. And don't fool yourself

they do the same thing with impunity all over the world. One of the few countries that could fight back is the US but we folded like a bad accordeon.

The oil companies are so used to doing this in places like Nigeria that it's just business as usual for them. We're pesky flies standing in the way of their profit, profit capitalism places above all else.

This is what they did to Nigeria without a peep from the US or any other industrialized country that was benefitting from it.





We're getting off relatively lightly in comparison.

[Poboy]

41. Thank you very much Nashville Brook. k&r-nt

[nashville_brook]

45. you're very welcome -- i'm starting to think that we might be getting more information from the

scientific community as this progresses. they've been treated like chumps, what with the buying their silence and all. WHOI is one group to watch, for sure.

[northoftheborder]

47. Could someone answer a question?

I have been out of town this week, without a computer, although with access to news, but I missed out on an explanation as to why the relief well hasn't been accomplished yet. I thought they were within feet of drilling into the well with the bottom kill. Now there are other puzzling reports of removing the BOP, etc... nothing about why they aren't doing the bottom kill..... Chad Allen is either not in on the actual process, or he has not been informed. Does anyone know what is going on? I can't find anything on the Oil Drum either pertaining to this.

[Poboy]

48. The relief well has been put off until after labor day.

BP begins looking for mystery pipe
Published: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 12:15 PM

After pressure tests on BP's damaged Macondo well were deemed successful early this morning, the company began looking for a mystery piece of drill pipe that is believed to be stuck in the blowout preventer in hopes of removing it.
National Incident Commander Thad Allen ordered the company to remove the curious pipe before removing the blowout preventer and other equipment at the top of the well in preparation for putting another one on. Allen wants a new and more durable blowout preventer installed on the well before BP resumes drilling the relief well and using it to fill the original well with cement, permanently and reliably shutting down the well.

http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/08/bp_begins_looking_for_mystery.html

[DeSwiss]

50. K&R n/t

[defendandprotect]

51. Other information, which seems confirmed, is that the sea floor in the

area of the well is raised 30' -- ???

Supposedly quite a large area of it --

[nashville_brook]

58. hey...

do you have a link for that? i've missed that story in my RSS feeds, although i've seen some similar ideas. i need to refresh my RSS collection, as some of the feeds are slowing down to a crawl -- especially the scientific groups.

[defendandprotect]

80. About a week ago or a bit more, I think... probably here at DU ....

but I didn't save a link to it --

And, actually, there were articles on that way back . . . as people were

reporting the underfloor accumulation of oil -- and then that story disappeared.

So much going on hard to keep track of --

Rep. Markey has been running hearings -- and I try to tap in but often too much

else going on to really plug into what trails he is following. But, what I have

seen on it, he's been surprisingly strong!

Wish more of us were watching C-span -- it's where the "cat jumps out of the bag"

quite often!!

[metapunditedgy]

52. It's "business as usual" until BP execs are in jail. n/t

[bertman]

53. Great post, nashville_brook. One of our biggest problems is our arrogance

regarding our technological prowess. We humans can engineer and put together some amazingly complex and mind-boggling pieces of work. Deep sea oil rigs, skyscrapers, tunnels under the sea, dams that hold back billions of gallons of water are just a few of our accomplishments. However, we think that just because we have figured out how to do something at a certain level of technical expertise that it's just fine to plunge ahead into areas of great uncertainty. Things will be fine we think. We can engineer a solution.

That is not always the case. And it's not always immediately apparent that our "fix" to the problems is a good remedy that isn't causing more problems than the original problem.

Monkeys with machinery.

[nashville_brook]

59. your post reminds me of Plato's idea of "philosopher kings." our sphere of influence has expanded

so far as to include serious earth-damaging technologies, and so it's not absurd to imagine a need for "philosopher scientists." which is supposed to be the role of NOAA, MMS, and other governmental technocratic offices. however, they've been corrupted. so i guess the question is, can we reform these agencies, and the way use our "philosopher scientists" or do we need a revolution/remaking of the very nature of these agencies?

i'd like to think that serious reform would do the trick: pay them enough and separate them far enough from corporate interests in order to lessen the likelihood of corruption. but we might be too far gone for that.

[bertman]

76. My opinion is that we cannot pay them enough because the corporate

world will always devise a new work-around that allows them to do what they want, regardless of what the scientist-philosophers recommend. Everything in our culture and our techno world (including most of the other "advanced nations") is about expediency and profit. That will only change when the system fails completely. I doubt there will be a revolution that causes it to fail, but the likelihood of failure due to accumulated damage--both ecological and economic--seems like a not-too-distant possibility. Sad to say.

[defendandprotect]

82. Obviously, the most obvious sign of capitalism's failure is Global Warming ....

Capitalism's exploitation of nature and natural resources -- and humans -- is

suicidal --



Patirarchy and it's underpinning -- organized patriarchal religion -- and it's

invention of capitalism = The Unholy Trinity!!

[bertman]

83. Indeed. The Unholy Trinity describes it well.

[lob1]

54. K&R. BP refuses to give information to the government?

And our government is doing nothing about that? BP has never actually put up the $20 billion they promised, have they. Not a penny, just good publicity. Our government, working for you and me. Damn.

[AllTooEasy]

55. Internet Rumors, Uncorroborated Reports? Academic Speculation ? That's it?

This guy is useless. He's not even working on the drill site, the relief wells, or seeing any collected measurements. He's just speculating from 3,000 miles away. We can do better than this!

BP isn't trustworthy...granted, but give me amunition from SOMEONE WHO'S IS ATLEAST IN THE GULF.

[nc4bo]

56. So are you saying that the video feeds of bubbling oil from the seabed are not real? nt

[mother earth]

61. You can't hide the truth any more, obviously the reason they'd like

to control the internet and the plethora of knowledge gleaned from it. This is one heck of a revelation, and then we have yet to see or endure the real life effects of this disaster...in time it will all be revealed. There's no hiding, BP! Not even with gov't assist. This is what the corporate takeover has wrought.

[nashville_brook]

62. in the long run, it's going to be much harder to "forget" about The Gulf of Mexico, than Prince

William Sound. The GoM is closer to our "center of gravity." It's surrounded by other countries who have an interest in an ecologically viable Gulf. This is not going to magically disappear, the way they wanted us to think the oil magically disappeared.

[mother earth]

64. You are 100% right, the circle of life, this is absolutely the worst

disaster because it's not going away any time soon, and we have only begun to understand the depth of the situation. That oil and the dispersants used to make it settle, is entering the chain of life of our most precious ecosystem. Everything is connected, WE are all connected, from the air we breathe to our food source and their food source, plant and animal...we have contaminated it all. When we honor life, we honor ourselves. We are witness to the results and folly of what can happen when that truth is not lived.

Thank you for bringing this into discussion. K & R, my friend.

[aquart]

63. Bring them into hearings then arrest them for lying to Congress.

Cuff them in the chamber in front of CSpan.

[Dr.Phool]

66. Arrest them under RICO, "Operating a Continuing Criminal Enterprise".

Seize all of their US assets, and arrest them without bail.

[nashville_brook]

74. The Case For Seizing BP -- official statement (no copyright, mods)

https://secure2.convio.net/pep/site/SPageServer?JServSessionIdr004=jw8izd8dn1.app202a&pagename=SeizeBP

Seize BP: Campaign Statement and Petition

The government of the United States must seize BP and freeze its assets, and place those funds in trust to begin providing immediate relief to the working people throughout the Gulf states whose jobs, communities, homes and businesses are being harmed or destroyed by the criminally negligent actions of the CEO, Board of Directors and senior management of BP.


June 9, 2010

There are three roads, or options, by which compensation can be provided for those who have been harmed from the BP oil disaster.

The first path, or option, is the BP claims process whereby BP determines what to cover and how much to pay. On this road all power rests with BP.

The second path is through the courts, where people can file litigation and lawsuits against BP. The burden of proof lies with the harmed individuals, who must employ lawyers and then battle BP’s army of attorneys for years, possibly decades.

Both BP and the Obama administration want to push everyone seeking compensation down these two paths, but these two paths lead nowhere.

There is, however, a third option: the seizure of BP’s assets in an amount commensurate with estimated damages and the delivery of immediate and ongoing compensation to all those who have suffered and will suffer lost jobs, wages and business for years to come.

People around the country are mobilizing for the third option.

The case for freezing and seizing BP’s assets

For those who are directly affected by the BP oil spill, there is urgency for action. Every affected person and family should be able to go to sleep at night knowing, regardless of the final measure of spillage, regardless of the scope of environmental harm, that they will be taken care of financially, that they will be made whole. Not 20 years from now or in some distant future, with victims worn down and claims whittled away by an army of BP lawyers, as occurred with the Exxon Valdez disaster.

Compensation must be immediate. It must be ongoing. Make-whole relief will require enormous assets, amounting to tens of billions of dollars by all estimates.

The Seize BP demand is simple: Seize the assets of BP, place those assets in trust for the immediate and ongoing relief of those directly affected. Simplified and swift claims processes.

BP has no intention of paying tens of billions of dollars in costs and damages. Tony Hayward, responding to plummeting stock values, reassured the financial industry that BP can escape this disaster paying no more than $3 billion in costs and damages. His projection included all physical cleanup costs.

BP has every interest and intention of avoiding claims and damages. BP is a profit-maximizing corporation. It is not a creature of social beneficence. Like any profit-maximizer, BP has as its purpose the maximization of revenues while avoiding costs or expenditures.

BP is a profit predator that grows fat on the accumulation of mega-profits. BP lied about the volume of spillage, first denying any spillage, then conceding 1,000 barrels per day and ultimately low-balling the actual spillage volume by insisting that it is only 5,000 barrels per day.

BP simultaneously announces that its recent containment efforts have resulted in the collection of 15,000 barrels of oil per day. It’s a veritable miracle, apparently, that so much can be collected when so little is spilling. More to the point, BP is lying.

Yesterday, on June 9, BP’s chief operating officer told the Today show that there is “no evidence” of plumes of toxic oil beneath the surface. It just disappeared, never mind the scientific and government confirmation by research vessels that massive plumes not only exist but are on the move, placing coastlines at risk even up the Atlantic Seaboard. BP is, to say the least, self-interested and untrustworthy.

Yet, President Obama supports the system whereby victims’ claims are processed by BP. Victims of BP’s environmental violence and economic dislocation must first ask BP to please pay them something. BP is sole determiner of what claims are “legitimate,” determines the compensation level if any is to be allowed, and does not have to make any ongoing commitment to continued payments. If victims are dissatisfied, they can go to court.

The BP-based model of compensation, unsurprisingly, has resulted in widespread dissatisfaction. It is so unwieldy that the governor of Alabama has mobilized the National Guard to provide assistance to victims in filling out forms.

Even with assistance, the forms go to BP.

The second model of compensation is court based. But the court system is in no way set up to provide timely and sufficient compensation. The legal process takes years, potentially decades. People need relief today. An army of corporate lawyers will use the judicial requirements of proof and process and will assert theories of liability limitation to delay and whittle away claims to next to nothing.

The problem with going to the courts is that it turns the entire process of proof and responsibility upside down. In court, the burden of proof is on the claimant, when we all recognize that the burden of fault and responsibility is on BP, as well as Halliburton and Transocean.

It is not fair to demand that a small business owner who cannot feed his or her family or continue operations hire an attorney for a decade or so and engage an expert in forensic accounting to be able to “prove” that the current and future season’s revenues are off because of the economic disruption of BP’s oil spill.

The BP-centric model of payments and the court-centric model of litigation do not satisfy the public interest and certainly will not satisfy the immediate needs of those affected.

Only seizure will protect the interests of the people

The Seize BP demand is focused on relief to those affected. Relief today and for the future. Without extensive claims processes. Seize BP demands that the U.S. Congress with the support of the President enact legislation to seize assets of the responsible parties, and place those assets in trust for immediate compensation and relief.

The Seize BP demand is for seizure of assets to provide relief. The amount seized can be assessed by an agency determination, updated on an ongoing basis, of current known damage estimates. Because damages occur over time, asset seizure and set-aside can be done over time. Whether the seizure or assessment has the result of impairing BP’s operations depends, ultimately, on the damage it has caused. Given BP’s capitalization, assets and revenue-producing abilities, it is not a foregone conclusion that its operations would be dissolved or sold or even impaired.

There is no issue as to the legality of such a seizure. This is not a “taking.” It is not a punitive measure, even, although punitive measures and penalties are amply justified through independent processes. The amount to be seized is commensurate with the damage done. It is compensatory. It does not seek to nationalize or have the government assume operations of BP, actions which the Supreme Court countenanced could occur with Congressional approval in the case of Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer, 343 U.S. 579 (1952).

The people who are suffering today, here and now deserve nothing less. They are not at fault. We know who the responsible parties are.

There is a crass reality underlying the urgency of this demand. If a trust is not established now, it will never be. The convergence of political demands for Congressional and Presidential action will never be greater than they are right now. A few months from now, a year from now, the attention of lawmakers will be elsewhere. The shocking graphic images of the environmental damage will be images to which the public will grow accustomed, and in which the media will lose interest. The pain and suffering for those affected will burn even worse, but the possibilities of political action and remedy will have long passed.

The time for action is now.

Take Action Now

It is imperative that the government seize BP’s assets now for their criminal negligence and begin providing immediate relief for the immense suffering and harm they have caused.

[aquart]

85. I could live with that.

[nashville_brook]

73. god, i'd love to see that!

[fascisthunter]

65. this government and BP are endangering the well being of millions

as well as destroying ecosystems we depend upon. All for money... think about it.

[SammyWinstonJack]

67. Hey Obama and his daughter swam in the gulf....perfectly safe and then ate a fish taco

made from fish caught in the gulf.....perfectly safe. No worries. :silly:

[Catherina]

70. Flashback to the mad cow tainted beed

John Gummer, the British MP who fed his four-year-old daughter Cordelia a hamburger in an attempt to calm fears over the safety of beef during the mad cow disease outbreak.

[nashville_brook]

72. what bothers me the most about these displays is that these leaders is that come tomorrow

these leaders have the option of not eating the sickened beef or the tainted fish. for those who depend on the Gulf, or the cattle, we don't have that luxury. sure, one bite of sickened beef or shrimp probably won't kill you, so it makes a GREAT photo-op. but, there's no similarity between that one picnic and the reality for those of us who must live in these tainted waters, or who can no longer sell their catch.

and what about the people of the Gulf coast who take the leaders at their word and go ahead and eat the Corexit shrimp for the next few years and wind up with soft-tissue cancers? what then?

[Catherina]

77. My too. I find it cynical and irresponsible. Total agreement here n/t

[Tuesday Afternoon]

69. I keep thinking of that old commercial --

Its not nice to fool Mother Nature. I think she is really pissed this time. Anyone else remember it?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLrTPrp-fW8

[nashville_brook]

71. oh hell! i've been thinking of that too! and in my head it's "don't piss off Mother Nature"

great minds!

[burrowowl]

81. Damn scary!

:scared: