A Request for Feedback: How Would You Describe Yourself Politically

[RainDog]

Poll question: A Request for Feedback: How Would You Describe Yourself Politically

Please feel free to define what your terms mean to you. Maybe we can even be civil to one another and stick to our opinion of our own view, not someone else's.

[OutNow]

1. Other - socialist

not associated with the Socialist Party

[socialist_n_TN]

74. Yep. That's me too. Small "s" socialist..........

More left than social democrat, but not quite a Communist.

[Supply Side Jesus]

2. Always be moving forward...

EQUAL rights, EQUAL justice, EQUAL opportunity to pursue our happiness....

[Ozymanithrax]

3. Democrat...without modifier...

Which modifier fits best depends on the policy under discussion.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

4. I'm a progressive Democrat...VERY liberal.

In fact, as I get older, I get more liberal.

[old mark]

9. Me, too, Peg...I never bought that crap about how we become Republicans as we age...

the people I know who are republicans now were republicans in grade school...I think it's partly genetic, the flow of teh stupid...


mark

[socialist_n_TN]

76. Naw, it true. I used to be a Trotskyist,.........

now I'm just a small "s" socialist. :)

[Luminous Animal]

19. What is the ideology of a progressive democrat?

I've searched and it seems like it is a label without a distinction. Do progressive democrats have a mission statement? Do they have a platform? A strategy?

[RainDog]

55. this is an interesting question

(not singling out this particular instance)

that's why the political compass thing, linked below, is interesting to me. According to that, I'm liberal libertarian. That makes anarchist, conservative anything or moderate anything not really an option for me. Within the possible ways I know of to describe my pov, liberal, progressive or social democrat seem to be possible ways to define my political pov - but the consistent thing about my pov is that I believe personal freedom and responsibility are important and I believe that government exists to regulate the non-personal freedom of non-human entities like the state and corporations.

But within that definition, there are lots of ways to look at creating a society.

[Lorien]

81. That's pretty close to where I am on the compass

actually, I think that over 60% of DUers are in that range. But when you look at where Obama is: http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2008 (and that was CANDIDATE Obama, not the Presidential version) then it's easy to see why the strain within the party exists.

[Ramulux]

5. Are there actually libertarians here?

I dont really understand how a libertarian could consider themselves a democrat in any way shape or form.

[pnorman]

31. At one time, "libertarian" was another term for "anarchist"

In recent times it's been co-opted by the Rand Paul types.

[krabigirl]

65. Left libertarians exist..ie against corporations or government having unchecked power.

I'd include churches in there as well.

[Starry Messenger]

6. Other-Socialist

I change my registration in CA to parties among the various left parties depending on who I want to vote for in primaries. We have some funky laws. Rather then try to understand them, I just switch around. :)

[rusty quoin]

7. I punched in liberal, but I never understood the diff between

liberal and progressive. I would always say that I was in the group the right wing was attacking at the time.

[Radical Activist]

10. Both terms have had different meanings at different times in history.

There's no functional difference between the two words today.

[rusty quoin]

13. That's what I thought.

[readmoreoften]

22. Liberalism, classically, means laissez-faire capitalism so its confusing

Progressivism is, partially, an attempt to distance from the phrase, but in some senses it is also a buzz term created after liberal became a bad word under Reagan.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

72. In Australia, the liberals are the conservatives.

[Drunken Irishman]

8. Democrat.

[Radical Activist]

11. anti-authoritarian direct democracy radical.

Borderline anarchist. I'm not sure there's a name for that.

You should have included socialist and Marxist. There are plenty here.

[mbillard1979]

12. I voted progressive

Seeing the country move further to the left I think would be the best thing, since moving the country to the far right nearly bankrupted America and caused more division amongst people in this country then any other time in recent history.

[Zavulon]

14. Not sure how to answer this.

I'm pretty conservative fiscally, but on the social side I'm as liberal as they get - and the social side is more important to me (even though I'm unemployed, strangely enough). I'm also an athiest and absolutely loathe Republican stances on religion, gay marriage and so on. Therefore I can't see myself as a "conservative Democrat," but my conservative fiscal leanings might be too far to the right to call me a "moderate Democrat."

Therefore I throw the question back at you, OP (and to anyone else who answers) - how would you describe me politically?

[hfojvt]

17. I would define you as DLC

but maybe that is just me. I saw Clinton that way, as conservative on economic issues (NAFTA, middle class tax cut, capital gains tax cut, ending welfare, etc.) and socially liberal (pro choice, FMLA, gays in the military, etc.)

[Zavulon]

64. I once heard, and perhaps someone can correct me if I'm wrong,

that Clinton vetoed that welfare bill once or twice and when it came up again, he was basically told that he stood a good chance of losing to Dole if he didn't sign it. Either way, I'm probably a bit to the right of Clinton fiscally.

I'm not against welfare, but I am against welfare for life for the physically able. I'm not against unemployment (I'm unemployed myself), but even I think 99 weeks is excessive. I'm not even remotely against helping the poor as a whole, but I don't take those stories about this or that hard-luck case as representative of the whole picture and I didn't feel sorry at all for the infamous lady on lifetime welfare with the big screen TV.

My social stances have me in what would be good grace with almost everyone on DU, but many of my fiscal stances don't. I believe my fiscal stances would be far more liberal if I ever began to see government as an even remotely competent steward of tax dollars. Can you imagine how much good we could do for the poor if we wiped out waste, fruad, graft?

[readmoreoften]

20. Sounds like you are a right-wing democrat bordering on libertarian.

Right-wing properly refers to economic policy, not social beliefs. You sound more like a libertarian than a Democrat. You're probably a little to the left of a libertarian on financial issues and a little to the right of the Democrats, but more liberal than the DLC on social issues.

[Zavulon]

62. Thank you for saying "bordering"

I'm not a Libertarian and won't ever become one, because their no-government fantasy world just isn't for me. I freely admit I have very little faith in most economic-based social programs, but I'd still rather try them (admittedly, less of them) then just tell the poor to go to hell and die.

[RainDog]

21. traditionally, libertarians are defined as fiscal conservatives and social liberals

maybe you'd like to take the political compass test to see where your views fall according to their designations

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

[Zavulon]

63. Well, your test pretty much seems to agree

http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-2.75&soc=-6.10

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -2.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.10

Thanks for the link - I've heard of this but have never looked it up.

[RainDog]

23. I hope people do not use your request to ask their opinion as route to argument

instead, it might be useful if people talked about their understandings of various words.

as others have mentioned here, liberal may mean various things. And, again, people may also choose some other definition.

[Zavulon]

61. I do, too.

I WAS a Republican when I was younger and dumber. When Bush 41 was running for reelection I voted Democrat for the first time and haven't looked back. Still, I've seen a lot of "If you're not with us 100% on EVERY point of the Democratic platform, you're a fucking Republican" here.

Hell, the fact that I'm pro-gun eliminates me right there.

[Quantess]

15. Reasonable. Fairly well informed. Secular. Open minded.

If Republicans / teabaggers come up with any ideas or policies that I like, I wouldn't hesitate to support them.
However, I'm used to only crazy, ignorant, dumbassery from the Republicans, so I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for any tidbits of genius from those assholes.

[flvegan]

16. So far left, you can't even see me.

[Anakin Skywalker]

36. I Didn't Think I Would See That Picture On Here! :-)

Ha ha!

[RainDog]

56. you're so sweet to leave some eye candy on my thread! :) n/t

[readmoreoften]

18. Other: Socialist

Both the Debs and Trotskyist variety. Decidedly not the Stalinist variety. Decidedly not an anarchist.

(Was a Gore voter in 2000 and a Kerry Voter in 2004. Voted for Obama in 2008 solely to give him a chance even though I thought he was full of shit. Gave up on the Democratic Party and will not be voting for Obama in 2012. Will be voting for some local Democrats in 2010--unless conservative Democrats treat me so rudely that I choose to let them suffer their own consequences for being nasty pricks.)

[Luminous Animal]

24. Other: Anarcho-syndacalist.

Why did you leave off socialist?

[RainDog]

25. I suppose I was thinking of democratic socialist in broad terms

more like the big tent before schisms into various groups.

[readmoreoften]

28. Social democrat has a specific meaning and is not generally socialist.

It originally marks the conception of socialism during the 2nd International and Bernsteinism at the end of the 19th century--the idea that capitalism no longer had any contradictions and that socialism could be introduced slowly over time. (This also eventually became "progressivism" etc.) But the 2nd International flamed out during WWI. These "social democrats" who believed in a slow, non-revolutionary evolution towards socialism threw their lot in with their respective national capitalists during WWI. They were essentially nationalists firsts and socialists second. For this reason, Lenin, Trotsky, Radek, and Rosa Luxemburg referred to them as "opportunists" and "social chauvininsts".

Revolutionary socialists and the early Bolsheviks were the left-wing opposition and stopped calling themselves "social democrats" and started calling themselves socialists to differentiate between the pro-capitalist war hawks and themselves. After WWI, the Russian Revolution was dependent upon the working-class troops refusing to invade Russia to support the capitalist "whites", especially the German Social Democratic Party (SPD). But the SPD went right-wing (much like todays Democrats, cough-cough) and they got the troops to help invade Russia (along with 13 other nations). The Bolsheviks against all odds won the civil war, but it was a pyrrhic victory: there were few working class people left alive and the upper class administrators, led by Stalin, began to consolidate power. Meanwhile, the German Social Democratic Party became more and more conservative and nationalist, eventually murdering Luxemburg and supporting the Freicorps. The rest, as they say, is history.

Social Democrat can now mean something like "progressive" among Europeans but it is generally distinct from socialist.

The major socialist organizations/tendencies in the US are: Democratic Socialists of America, the International Socialist Organization, the Socialist Party, the Socialist Equality Party, Solidarity, and PSL (Party for Solidarity and Liberation). On the Maoist side there is the RCP. And there still is the small CP, which is so conservative and small that they actually vote for Democrats. On the syndicalist side, there is, of course, the IWW. These organizations are not necessarily hostile to one another just because they organize separately. The groups often form working relationships to get things done. Some are very democratic, some are top down and authoritarian. Some have dues paying, deeply committed memberships, some count anyone who fills out a form. There is a--I'm not going to say vibrant--but there is a left in the US. The distinctions are sometimes critical and sometimes irrelevant. But one thing is for certain, none of them call themselves social democrats. :)

[RainDog]

30. thanks for the post!

please pardon my mistake for eliding the differences.

[eridani]

26. I'd go for that too. Too bad that--

--anarcho-syndicalists don't do elections. Democrats do.

[Luminous Animal]

27. Hey eridani! Nice to see you...

I'm Mrs Peel from Upsize This!

[eridani]

32. I'm going to have to check in with a report on my current activities one of these days

I belong to 3 single payer health care organizations and have become very active in local Dem politics as well. Sort of sucks up most of my time. Also helping with the local anti-Catfood Commission work.

[Luminous Animal]

34. It would be great if you checked in.

We'd love to hear from you.

[readmoreoften]

29. Socialists also do elections.

Both revolutionary socialists and electoral socialists (like Debs) believe in using voting as a tactic to get power from the ruling class.

[eridani]

33. Debs and the Milwaukee mayors were the last socialists to take elections seriously

Sorry--no voter outreach plan = no real campaign. I have never even met a local socialist who could tell me what precinct s/he was in, let alone having a voter database.

[Luminous Animal]

35. Socialist in San Francisco are very organized and work on most local initiatives/campaigns.

[eridani]

37. Do they have a voter file that they maintain?

Have they done serious planning on how to get beyond their small natural base and into the universe of persuadable voters?

[Luminous Animal]

38. Yes they do. And they work with Dems and Greens around specific issues.

They do candidate interviews and endorsement cards and a lot of coalition work.

[eridani]

42. So do NARAL and Seattle Municipal Elections Committee (LGBT)

That does not make them political parties. In Seattle, Greens and various socialist parties are like SEAMEC, only with fewer members.

I'm not knocking that particular kind of involvement; it's an essential part of further progress. It isn't really electoral politics, though. The issue-oriented left gave up on elections in the 70s, leaving only a few of our generation like Sanders and Kucinich to begin the process of gaining political street cred by running for local office until they won something. We are all paying for that now.

[readmoreoften]

39. Yes. But they are also realistic about what's possible in this reactionary period.

It's not that Debs was more "serious" than contemporary socialists its that Debs wasn't living in an unprecedented reactionary period. A political party is expensive and not incredibly useful until you have a certain critical mass. Their strategy is to build that in the streets and work with allies until that day. Realistically, there are less than 2000 active and committed socialists in the US right now. Those few people make up about 25% of the activists organizing for immigration marches, the death penalty, calling rallies against the war. There is no socialist organization in the US even large enough to join the call for the Fifth International that was put out recently by Morales and Chavez. It has little to do with socialists being "bad organizers" and everything to do with the reactionary period and the two-party system in the US. For example, the ISO's sister organization in the UK, the British SWP has about 250K members. They're not better organizers, they just have it a little easier because they have a parliamentary system.

That being said, anarchists don't believe in voting and parties on principle, socialists believe in both creating parties and using existing parties. That was the point.

[eridani]

43. Contemporary socialists have been blowing off elections and "building in the streets"

--since the mid-70s. And where has that gotten us? What if more socialists had done what Bernie Sanders did back then--start running for and winning local offices? If they had, Bernie might have had an actual political party to belong to.

[Skidmore]

40. What does that even mean?

[eridani]

44. Here ya go--

http://www.anarchosyndicalism.net/index.php

[Scruffy1]

48. It seems that they want to deny our existence

I have seen some polls that indicate about 20% per cent of the population is socialist of one stripe or the other and yet the center is always defined as between corporate dems and corporate Republicans.
They can kiss my old red ass.

[RainDog]

51. no one is trying to deny your existence on this thread

the unnamed designation is there for a purpose if you or anyone else feels that the options in the poll do not sufficiently describe your political position.

when I posted "anarchist" of one form or another, I was also thinking of the anarcho-socialist for those who felt it would more adequately describe them than "democratic socialist," which, as I noted before, was used as a more general term in my intent.

I'm not a political scientist - the reason for the poll is just to ask for feedback from people here - and maybe to foster some discussion about how people define words. Some people here have done just that and I and others learn more about people's povs, and I'm grateful for that and other responses too.

[Common Sense Party]

66. Can you show me a reputable poll that shows that 20% of the U.S.

population is socialist? That sounds very hard to believe.

[deacon]

41. Other. Solidarity Democrat. I am liberal on some issues, progressive on others, Moderate on others.

But the GOP made me a tried and true solidarity democrat. The insane GOP should never have their hands on the economy or be in charge of our military again.

[Scuba]

45. Another socialist here.

[jannyk]

46. Yet another Socialist (UK version) here. My 84 yr old Dad is one and

my Grandads were both docker's at East India Docks (London). All were quite active in the Party of the Common Man.

[Orsino]

47. Progressive...without the modifier. n/t

[formercia]

49. Assholes are fair game Liberal.

Nobody is sacred.

[RainDog]

50. kicking for the noon day. n/t

[Morning Dew]

52. Other.

Nowadays I'd be considered a radical... thirty years ago you'd have called me a plain ol' Democrat.

[Starry Messenger]

53. kick.

Interesting results!

[bvar22]

54. I used to be a Middle-of-the-Road FDR Democrat.

You remember:
Pro-UNION
Pro-Working Class
Strong Social Safety Net
limits on Corporate Size & Power
Strong Regulation of Banking, Communications, Transportation, Utilities, Trade
Protection & Support for American Jobs
Health Care as a RIGHT
Fair Competition for Local Business vs Big Box
+70% Upper Bracket Tax Rate


I haven't changed,
but now I find myself to be a member of the "Fucking Retarded" Wing of the Democratic Party.
.
.
.
So I answered "Liberal",
but I still consider myself to be a mainstream FDR Democrat.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[LostinVA]

57. You missed Democratic Socialism, RD

It's not the same as being a Social Democrat, although many people use it interchangeably.

Good OP.

[RainDog]

58. ya live and learn...

at least I hope to.

[TheKentuckian]

59. Self described liberal but socialist, Professional Leftist, American left radical, Old School FDR

Democrat, Bill of Rights extremist, anti-poverty fundamentalist, Labor, Roddenberry style techno-socialist, TDR/FDR/MLK Unity Party, and ass kicking division of the Democratic wing Democrat all fit pretty well.

[RainDog]

60. Good thing you don't have to put that on a bumper sticker!

:)

[Axle_techie]

67. non-partisan progressive

[NuttyFluffers]

68. other- flaming libertarian liberal libertine

i like it when my tongue touches my alveolar-dental region when i label myself. makes me feel sexy.

[RainDog]

69. lol

talking politics isn't my idea of foreplay - but whatever works.

[IrishEyes]

70. I'm a liberal

I've been one all my life even though my brothers keep trying to convert me to the conservative republican side.

[blindpig]

71. For lack of a better term...

Ecological Marxist. See John Bellamy Foster, easily found at the Monthly Review, who coined the term.

[Odin2005]

73. I'm a Socialist.

[socialist_n_TN]

78. LOTS of socialists of one type or another.........

here on DU. Interesting.

[closeupready]

75. 100% liberal.

n/t

[Steely_Dan]

77. I Put Down Liberal...

...but I suppose I'm now a "Progressive."

-P

[mvd]

80. I usually say "liberal" just because it s NOT a bad word

:hi:

[mvd]

79. Mix of liberal and socialist. What would that be called?

I want single payer health care. I want an end to the wars in both Iraq and Afghanistan (and that means a goal of getting all troops out - not just combat troops.) No war except as a last resort. I think America needs to be much more like Europe with a stronger safety net. America sticks out as a 1st world democracy for having right wing economics that make no sense except to line some pockets with money. I don't believe anyone should starve or go without adequate shelter. I'm against the Patriot Act and I'm for marriage equality. I'm pro-choice, even though I'd like the numbers down - it's not my business. I favor a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants as long as a fine is paid - if they can't pay the fine, then a work visa until they can pay a fine. I'm against the death penalty. I favor the right to own guns, but with controls. I believe in very progressive taxation - keep taxes low on the poor and middle class. 70% top tax rate for income over a million. I still think you should be able to make what you legally can, but corporations must be regulated so that they don't put profits too much over people. We've tried thinking corporations would be good to us, and they haven't. I'm for religious freedom (I'm spiritual,) but there should be separation of church and state.

[mvd]

82. I voted "Social Democrat." But is there a better description..

for my views?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

83. Progressive Dem --

And I'm not talkin' about the Will Marshall kind of faux "progessive". :puke:

If you'd have had "democratic socialist" I would have picked that one.

[hayu_lol]

84. LIBERAL...

as defined in most GOOD dictionaries.