The Campaign Against Julian Assange

[sabrina 1]

The Campaign Against Julian Assange

STOCKHOLM (Rixstep) — There's no question yesterday's events surrounding Julian Assange constitute a campaign. The only question is whether it was orchestrated - a conspiracy - or merely a tragedy of a succession of abuses by individuals working independently. Today's revelations tell a comprehensive story.

There are two main tabloids in Sweden according to this article. Expressen and Aftonbladet

Julian Assange had singed an agreement to publish a regular column in Aftonbladet, a necessary step towards making it possible for him to avail of the Swedish free press protections he sought for Wikileaks.

The second tabloid, Expressen was the one that first published the news of his arrest in absentia on charges of rape.

No one knows how Expressen got this information, according to this article. It is against Swedish law for either the police or the prosecutors to reveal the names of individuals charged with crimes.

Expressen's Exploit

The prosecutor's office will never reveal the identity of a suspect to the public. And they didn't this time either. But Expressen somehow got wind of the case and rang up the prosecutor's office and asked if Julian Assange had been arrested.

The prosecutor on duty was the same Maria Häljebo Kjellstrand. She verified Julian Assange was in fact being sought ('hunted') for rape. But Expressen already had the whole story - they only asked her to corroborate.

So where did Expressen get the story? Although the legality of even this move by Kjellstrand will now be called into question, the mystery that remains is how Expressen, out of the blue, got wind of it and got the details about it. The prosecutor's office don't normally reveal anything and the police don't either. This is considered 'confidential' information.

So how did Expressen get the details prior to contacting the prosecutor's office? However they did it, it wasn't legal and it certainly wasn't ethical.

Expressen exploited the situation through illicit information. It's not known how they came by this information. The girls themselves may have contacted Expressen - especially if this was, as many suspect, a honey trap - or they may have reported back to the people orchestrating their actions and these people could have contacted Expressen. Or someone else in the police station or the prosecutor's office could have illegally leaked it to Expressen. But that's not considered likely.

It is a mystery, if true, that they had this information.

The second mystery is why a nationwide hunt for someone was initiated when no one had seen any reports on the case:

Saturday: Reversal

Eva Finné came into the office on Saturday. She was the first prosecutor to look at the actual documentation of the complaint: the police report itself, the paperwork. She was the first one to study it. And she dismissed the rape charge and rescinded the arrest warrant after reading the report. The reason she was able to dismiss the charge and the other prosecutor Maria Häljebo Kjellstrand couldn't was that Finné was the first one who'd actually seen the paperwork.

The emphasis in the excerpts is mine.

The laws against publishing names of suspects in Sweden are so strict, that newspapers in Sweden, most of whom broke those laws this weekend, included disclaimers explaining why they were doing so.

There will now be investigations into all of this and the prosecutor who initiated the charges is in trouble, so too according to this article, might be the newspapers who published the story.

Aftonbladet, the tabloid with whom Assange had signed an agreement, is now backing away from publishing his column. However, they did publish an interview they did with him in Sunday's edition:

AB: Two women claim you molested them. Your comment?
JA: I can't comment. There's no story to consider commenting on.

AB: Did you have sex with them?
JA: They're anonymous in the media. I have no idea who they are.

AB: Have you had sex at all during your stay in Sweden?
JA: That's my business and that of future women in my life.

AB: But isn't it just as well in this situation that you be as frank as possible?
JA: Yes. But I don't want to drag the private lives of others in the dirt without first being able to assess the entire situation. Why did they go to the police? What's behind all this?

I can say this: I have never, not in Sweden or anywhere else, had sex with someone in a way not founded on completely free volition from both sides.

AB: You were under arrest in absentia for several hours. Why didn't you go to the police?
JA: I needed to consult with some people and get a solicitor.

AB: But wouldn't your credibility have profited by your appearing at once?
JA: As I said, I needed to consult with some people. And WikiLeaks posted that I was on my way to the police.

AB: Have you ever been accused of anything similar?
JA: I've been accused of everything possible, but nothing of this caliber. This is surprising.

AB: How did it feel to learn the arrest was rescinded?
JA: Good, obviously.

AB: What do you think of the behaviour of the police and the prosecutor?
JA: No one's asked me for my version of the 'story'.

AB: What's your version of the story?
JA: I want to know more about what I'm accused of before I say anything.

AB: Right, you're still under suspicion of molesting.
JA: Nothing I've done fits that accusation.

AB: Do you think this story will hurt you and WikiLeaks, even though the charge of rape has been dismissed?
JA: Yes, it's very damaging. There have been headlines all over the world that I'm suspected of rape. They won't go away. And I know from experience that the enemies of WikiLeaks will continue to trumpet out things long after they've been proven to be false.

AB: The Internet is abuzz with conspiracy theories right now. What do you think?
JA: I don't know what's behind this. But we've been warned that the Pentagon would try to use dirty tricks to ruin things for us. And I've also been warned to watch out for honey traps.

MORE

It's sad that the Swedish Press compromised its integrity on this especially since it was their reputation as a medium that protects people's freedom of speech that brought Julian Assange to Sweden in the first place. They destroyed their own reputation as well as his by abandoning their principles, publishing what were only allegations against their own laws, without giving him a chance to respond until after the damage was done.

Definitely looks like a set-up at this point. I was not aware that Julian was married, but read today that he is a father of two. Don't know if that is accurate, but it was published in a British Newspaper.

[ConsAreLiars]

1. K&R because facts do matter. (nt)

[Greyhound]

2. K&R. I hope he survives.

[sabrina 1]

3. He will need a lot of support in order to survive.

Even if he survives this dirty trick, it's out there now and all they have to do is to get a few women to say the same thing again. Even if this fails, I don't think they will care, it's like throwing mud at the wall, some of it will stick no matter how widespread the coverage is that the whole thing was a set-up.

A second incident and he will lose more support. All they have to do is keep doing this and it will then appear to be pattern.

I don't know how he can fight that ... unless he and a few thousand of his admirers, start a campaign challenging the CIA to do it again with as much media coverage as possible. Mocking them basically and outright accusing them of being behind this incident and predicting that they will try again. Other than that, I don't know what he can do if it happens again.

[Turborama]

4. K&R Thanks for a really good overview of what went down, Sabrina.

I agree with your conclusion and was reading your OP thinking the same thing until I got there.

I wonder what it's going to take to make him release the entry codes to his "insurance" file. They must know what's in it by now and that he's got an "if you don't hear from me" plan in place for its release.

With regards to the "case", how do we even know there were any women involved in this at all? Sounds like it was all carried out on hearsay and accusations from 3rd parties.

[sabrina 1]

5. Re the entry codes to the Insurance file, I think that might have been

in case he was suicided or had an accident, but something like this might do it for him. In fact, maybe that's why the accusations were withdrawn?

[sabrina 1]

6. The reputation of the CIA is pretty bad around the world.

I did a search on stories about the Rape charges against Julian Assange and even before they were withdrawn, much of the foreign press just assumed it was a CIA dirty trick.

From India

Assange accused of rape: Is this a smear campaign?

Stockholm, Aug 21: Just as WikiLeaks was set to publish more classified US military documents, the whistle-blower website's founder, Julian Assange's name has suddenly emerged in rape cases.


In a suspicious development that seems to be a smear campaign against Assange, a Swedish tabloid on Saturday, Aug 21 reported that an arrest warrant has been issued for WikiLeaks founder on suspicion of rape.

So far, it's not working. But, I hope he has very good protection, although this, if it was the CIA may have backfired.

[mogster]

7. The accuser is now known

Political Secretary of the Socialist author Brotherhood Movement, Anna Bernardin, commanded just over a week since the Wikileaks founders Julian Assange to a seminar. This weekend Assange notified of a sexual offense. Behind the notification is Anna Bernardin.



Newzglobe (SE) (Through google translate http://bit.ly/9xWcNF

The Brotherhood movement is a Christian branch of the Swedish social democrats.

From the Swedish social democrats web page, the Assange event is still listed.

http://www.socialdemokraterna.se/broderskap

On edit:
Their twitter account http://twitter.com/kristenvanster

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mogster]

10. Thanks for that observation

But it's in the news.

[sabrina 1]

11. What a ridiculous statement. She is not a victim. The rape

charges have been withdrawn because they have, according to the prosecutor, no basis. That means under Swedish law IF she falsly accused him, she can be prosecuted.

I didn't see you rushing to defend the use of Julian Assange's name when it is strictly forbidden to so under Swedish law.

Not much concern on your part for the reputation of a man falsely accused of rape.

Kudos to the Swedes for the laws they have. Too bad the CIA decided not to observe them and too bad you are so selective in your concerns for the reputations of those who are involved.

[Pavulon]

13. No the fact that I could give a shit about assange

and if every person he is conspiring with are jailed or worse does not correlate with the name(s) being put forward in the press.

Assange put himself in the spotlight and publicly hopped up on his cross, this person not so much.

The man has no reputation and is either a CIA plant or a moron.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

16. This "give a shit" assertions of yours get funnier and funnier each time you post them. -nt

[Pavulon]

17. "give a shit" = Open yahoo news...

"wikileaks funding linked to CIA" or "5 friends of Julian Assange suffer fatal strokes" and I still finish my coffee.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

19. Did any of that happen? No. What the hell was that supposed to mean?

And please spare me the usual "Soldier of Fortune" wankfest.

[Pavulon]

23. Please, keep your wank to yourself

you are running out of content. Assange is either a honeypot or an intelligence agency without a state.

[Caretha]

57. You know Pavulon

I've never agreed with you in the 5 years I've been reading your posts. This time, I think you are on to something.

[sabrina 1]

21. You have a vivid imagination, I'll say that for you. n/t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

25. Nah. Wish fulfillment fiction is seldom creative fiction. -nt

[Pavulon]

28. See you two are to busy busting balls being insulting to read Legacy of Ashes..

I know books are hard and all but reading gives context to the things the CIA has done. Besides giving you an educated position to argue against states secrets LAWS and actual cases where presidents used the CIA to kill heads of states, it could help you not look ignorant in a forum. But most people dont read anyway so they have no idea you are quite wrong.

[sabrina 1]

30. I have not been insulting, I have pointed out to you

that it is against our laws to murder, to order political assassinations and to lie this country into war. The fact that the CIA has murdered on behalf of this government is a well known fact and a despicable one. That they are not accountable is even more despicable. This is not a third world dictatorship, although anyone reading your assessment of it would have a hard time believing that. I'll just go on believing in our judicial system if you don't mind and hope that one day we will have the guts to prosecute the criminals you mentioned.

[Pavulon]

32. Depending on how you define murder.. They killed 20 people today

or direct orders. Remember the CIA is no longer its own agency, it takes orders. The CIA is carrying out legal orders from the civilians who run the country.

[sabrina 1]

34. 'Just following orders'

That 'defense' didn't go down too well at Nuremberg.

[Pavulon]

42. Who issued those orders today?(nt)

[sabrina 1]

47. What a waste of time. I have already told you I believe these

wars are illegal. Any deaths incurred therefore are crimes. The U.S. Government issued the orders, or the U.S. military. And they too are responsible. We don't belong there. It's simple, not sure why you find it so hard to understand.

[Pavulon]

48. Which branch?

you know historically high profile lethal operations were always authorized by the President. I assume you aren't going to screech Obama to the Hague..

[sabrina 1]

51. As if a U.S. president would ever be prosecuted at this point in

time at the Hague. The U.S. government engaged in war crimes and still is at least since the beginning of the Iraq War. This country has refused to hold the war criminals responsible so there is no chance anyone else will either. For now. That doesn't change the fact that crimes have and are being committed.

[appal_jack]

59. dupe, delete

oops, dupe.

-app

[appal_jack]

60. yeah, whatever

yeah, whatever Terrence Moonseed.

If you don't get the reference, see:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3adw9oLBkBI

I, for one, support the 'openism' that Wikileaks is bringing to these undeclared wars.

-app

[sabrina 1]

18. So, you don't give a shit about justice.

That's pretty much the world's consensus on the CIA which is why no one believed the charges from the beginning. And because of that attitude, yours, which is now associated with all Americans around the world, this country has lost its moral authority.

Yes, Assange had the guts to put himself in the spotlight fully aware, as he said and published documents to prove it, that the CIA would be out to get him.

The American people are paying the salaries of these people to violate our laws and our Constitution. You have a very laissez faire (excuse the French :eyes:) attitude towards what is right and what is wrong and reflects perfectly those criminals who took this country to war under false pretenses. They too have little respect for justice or the laws of this country.

[Pavulon]

22. Speaking of French

who do you think arranged for FARC folks to die to extricate their citizen from somewhere in latin america? Guess the corpses were the victims..

This country does not trade on moral authority. Everyone claims it and only a child would take it at face value. You seem to think our constitution applies globally to everyone. It does not.

I have a very clear approach, these people should be serving American interests. If that means people raising money for events like Bali are killed, so be it. The Iraq war did not serve american interests and I disapprove, destroying al-quieda and any others like them is important and is being perused with the full resources of the intelligence community and military globally.

Assange placed himself in a position where the safety of his family and conspirators are in direct physical threat. That was his call and there are any number of governments that could use the drama to their advantage.

You do understand who authorizes events like the one in pakistan today, right. That is not some undersecretary or intern in the basement. That call (order) is made at the highest level.

[L0oniX]

38. Welcome to the list of the enemies of the truth.

[Pavulon]

44. Yeppers, I signed a 10 10 and

see no reason the systems I worked with should be made public. If china want to figure out how to make a better naval reactor they can do the research. Its expensive. If some asshole gives it away then we just have to go and spend billions more to make it even better.

You know unless people decide to publish classified information and save them the trouble of doing their homework.

How about your truth, i suppose when you buy a car you walk in with your upper end bid and financials written on your face. Why should the government negotiate with no private position.

[L0oniX]

52. Right ...so now you won't talk about your involvement with depleted uranium...

and how no one from the wars are afflicted with DU poisoning. I find it strange that you would hang out so long here only to now seemingly turn against the truth in various forms. Weird that you would be into open source linux too ...it just doesn't fit.

Oh yea and I suppose we all should remain indignant over our sales of precision lathes to Russia and other countries ...so now they can make more stealthy subs and what not. Or how about the missing hard drives from LASL which may have ended up in China because we had a higher up negligent Chinese tech working there. We were sold out a long time ago.

We've sold out most of our exclusives for global capitalism.

[Pavulon]

53. Ha I design precision tooling equipment, mostly in Latin America

they use them for aerospace. You probably fly on jets they make with my gear. Most uranium I dealt with was not depleted. The stupid agenda pusher who said falluja had a higher cancer rate than chernobyl is the reason I stay. It is far easier to win an argument when you are not infected with stupid.

The only question about the Iraq war is what american interests were served? Answer, none, conversation over. When people start talking about war crimes and millions of dead people that is lost in the chatter.

I write software for PLC controllers that runs happily on a linux (rhel4) subsystem. Quite secure kernel when compiled properly. It is helpful to encrypt code and maintain secure methods to update software without being there. A POSIX os makes this "easy". To protect my time AES is helpful.

I digress, just because I am not screaming Obama to the Hague and free bradley manning does not mean I am not able to maintain a solid D vote with backing actions that DO serve American Interest globally.

[sabrina 1]

54. No, that's not the only question.

The only question about the Iraq war is what american interests were served? Answer, none, conversation over. When people start talking about war crimes and millions of dead people that is lost in the chatter.

It is the least important question in fact.

[Pavulon]

56. I work with other veterans and lots of conservatives

that question gets attention and respect from everyone. When dealing with the right that question leaves them quiet. I am the "liberal guy" but being a veteran and good at my job offsets the label.

Fake numbers from the lancet and bush to the Hague is what they expect. When you lay out the argument that we wasted money and lives and got nothing that crosses the political lines of people who really think in the concerns of American interest. You know, like the people we elect are supposed to do.

[sabrina 1]

64. I would expect no less from Rightwingers. Which is why

when I talk to them, which I do, frequently, I tell them truth whether they like it or not. I am not interested in their selfish, bigoted views, they have been wrong about everything so far and have brought this country to its knees with their ideas.

As for the numbers of dead, wounded, maimed for life and tortured, the numbers are as accurate as they can be from a war zone, and since we cannot even guage the future deaths resulting from these wars are probably not even close to the real numbers.

However, one death was one too many in either of these wars. I will always remember the first little boy, Ali, whose entire family, his pregnant mother and his father, brothers and sisters were blown to bits in their own home on the first day of 'Shock and Awe'. He survived, but with no arms or legs and no family. One victim only out of countless others and on only the first day of that illegal war. But if he and his dead, innocent family were the only ones, it was a brutal crime and those responsible should have been prosecuted.

To rightwiners, that beautiful little boy is a 'camel jockey' or a 'rag-head'. Their opinions are worthless, similar to those of the Nazis and who would care what they think or cater to their sensibilities? The truth is what they need to face. Let them look at some of the orphans or the parents of dead children, in the face and tell them that what we do is honorable in any way.

The video released by Wikileaks with those beautiful children taken out of the van by one brave U.S. soldier who has since spoken about what it did to him, was hard to watch but if we support this war, we should be able to look at it. Why are they are hiding what they do if it is so right? That one soldier however, although he is haunted by what happened, did not lose this humanity.

[sudopod]

119. If you don't give a shit

then why do you clog up every Wikileaks thread on the site by leaving half the posts made anyplace it's mentioned?

[truedelphi]

134. Who is making these statements? My curiousity is begging me to ask --

I have that person on "ignore" and cannot see their name.

Only three people on ignore after years of being at DU.

But illogic and ridiculous arguments finally forced me to consider my blood pressure and use "ignore" on several DU'ers.

[chatnoir]

135. Wondered the same but was too late

Now it's nothing but "Name Removed, Deleted Message".

[mogster]

9. I think her name should be Anna Ardin

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Pavulon]

12. "I think" and the name of a person claiming rape

even against a subculture hero, are not a good thing.

[mogster]

115. The rape accusation was dropped

The current accusation for mr. Assange is 'sexuellt ofredande'. which directly translates to 'sexually intrusive'. This is a collective term that covers many areas. As it turns out, the Guardian has a bit about the background here:

One of two women involved told Aftonbladet in an interview published today that she had never intended Assange to be charged with rape. She was quoted as saying: "It is quite wrong that we were afraid of him. He is not violent and I do not feel threatened by him."

Speaking anonymously, she said each had had voluntary relations with Assange: "The responsibility for what happened to me and the other girl lies with a man who had attitude problems with women."

Sources close to the woman said that issues arose during the relationships about Assange's willingness to use condoms.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/aug/22/wikileaks-julian-assange-sweden

Read also about Ardins/Bernardins revenge list against men, from the blog of journo Ann Helena Rudberg:
http://bit.ly/9xDe5f

This isn't the USA, Pavulon, but Scandinavia. Women are in control much more than in your country. I know a lot about how these networks work, about their methods, after having 'wiki-leaked' at the DU for nearly six years, believe me. Some feminist networks in Norway is in alliance with conservative christians to get porn banned. I call that particular project 'Say no to porn and abortion'.
This is a hit job on Assange, for sure. Whether the contractor is Pentagon I don't know, but this story has revealed so much to me about what's going on up here.

On edit:
For the record: I disagreed to the Wikileaks publishing of the Afghanistan material, if indeed it is true that it threatens life and limb of soldiers and Afghans. As far as I'm concerned, the war in Afghanistan ended the moment Obama entered the White House and from there it was only a matter of time before troop withdrawal. Besides, they point at bad soldier behaviour, while I'm much more concerned with bad behaviour of generals and 'anonymous intelligence sources'.
But disseminating propaganda at whistleblowers is an entirely different matter, they should be protected. And finally, this is about media lies, as it always is.

[mogster]

133. All sex charges dropped

..a prosecutor decided Wednesday to investigate only one of two complaints against him, and not as a sexual offense.

http://yhoo.it/cAgIYN

Police still investigating, but won't tell what the charges are. What he is accused of doing, except for refusing to wear a condom.

This case summed up:
- A very intense, megabreaking story in which Assange is made out to be a rapist
- A police/justice process in which procedure is not followed, his name was revealed and the women didn't formally accuse him
- The case deteriorates to one case of sexual assault after some days, the other charge is dropped
- The case deteriorates further, the accusation is now 'ofredande' or 'intrusive'

I think it is self confrontation time here. It is striking how this case is designed for the Scandinavian market, it is a wedge issue to fit the pseudo-feminists to the max. But the male isn't the only victim here because using this issue for political purposes is harming real rape victims. They may not be well connected anti-abortion Christian feminists like Anna Ardin but will have to endure her need for revenge, attention, money or whatever made her do this. Maybe she was tricked?

It's time to read up on some things and compare:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkansas_Project
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Tripp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucianne_Goldberg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Willey

What was most important, Clintons affair or his work as a US president?

[sabrina 1]

136. Thank you for the information.

I've been reading about Ana Ardin and she seems to have wanted very badly to meet Assange according to people who were watching her Twitter Account, asking if he would be attending any parties. Tweets she later deleted.

I have also read, but not yet confirmed that the other woman worked for the Rightwing Tabloid Espressen, which published the story. Ardin according to other information I read, has a cousin who is in the Swedish Military and was present in Afghanistan when two Swedish soldiers were killed in 2005.

She is also fanatically anti-Castro according to reports on her work.

So, while on the surface it appears to have been an act of revenge for presonal reasons, there is no doubt that she knew who he was, knew Swedish laws and how it wouldn't matter whether the women filed charges or not, Swedish law enforcement could do so without the women's cooperation.

The question on everyone's mind is 'was she used or did she volunteer' to help smear him, or was it just an act of revenge at being used, in her mind, for sex, being that she is described as a 'rabid feminist' is some Swedish news outlets.

Not to mention the extraordinary coincidence of Assange happening to meet two women who knew each other on two totally different days and in two different cities, and that they, the women should find out that each had these encounters.

I still would not dismiss the possibility of this whole thing being part of smear campaign. Although it may simply have been a great coincidence and Assange not as smart or aware as he appears to be. He has said he was warned about this exact kind of thing happening so it was very foolish of him to go anywhere with strange women. But people, even smart ones, often do foolish things, Clinton being a a perfect example.

[sabrina 1]

14. Thanks for the link.

apparently these two women were careful only to 'ask questions' being aware as they probably are, of the law in Sweden which makes it a crime to falsely accuse someone else of a crime. But revealing HIS name definitely violated Swedish law.

Since the rape charges have been eliminated, she could be in trouble herself for making false charges, if that is what she did.

[Pavulon]

15. Probably not. Its a crime here to falsely accuse.

it is also a crime to steal classified information from a secure network and a crime to host information stolen by a man now shoelaceless.

She can always flee jurisdiction, like you new hero.

[sabrina 1]

20. Let's see, a whistle blower not yet identified, supplied papers

to an organization known to uncover government secrets with the goal of exposing the lies and misinformation governments, not just this one, routinely tell their citizens. Whistle-blowing is not a crime, and Manning has not been charged with handing over these documents. He is charged with handing over the video which exposed what actually happened when several civilians including two reporters, were killed.

So far, there is no crime that I can see. Whistle-blowing is not a crime, it is a duty when governments lie to expose those lies. That used to be the job of the press. But we no longer have a free press.

The details of this woman's involvement and what she did or why she did it, is not yet known. But if she lied, that is a serious crime in Sweden. Here not so much.

Neither his name or hers could be published legally in Sweden until after a conviction. But once the CIA gave the information to the Tabloid, all bets were off. The only way she is off the hook is if she had nothing to do with it.

[Pavulon]

24. Manning will not die a broken man in Florence for whistle blowing

he will serve 60 years or so for stealing classified documents, which is a crime. When you get access to classified documents you sign paper acknowledging it is a crime to divulge it. Manning posted his crime in a fucking chat room, which was logged. Which makes a criminal and a fucking idiot.

As for your CIA assumption why them? Now if he manages to leave the country in a C130 to Estonia then bet on it. Assange has no protection unless he shows up in the US.

Whistle blowing is reporting your bank employer discriminates against black people, when you steal all their money its still a crime.

Governments always lie, thats their job.

[sabrina 1]

26. 'Governments lie, thats their job'!

Can you show me where in any of our laws, the Constitution or anywhere, maybe some of the writings of the Founding Fathers, or any of our respected legal experts, this country makes it a condition of being in Government, that lying is part of the job?

[Pavulon]

27. Are you an adult, do you live in western europe on the American continent

there is NO LAW in any developed nation that gives all citizens access to all aspects of government. None. You just don't get it. I'm not sure how much you travel but say Germany, they have state secrets too.

They lie to their citizens about their military capability and arms sales.

As an adult it is worth knowing this is fact and will continue as long as the sun rises in the east.

And yep a quick google will show you the laws that founded the NSA. You can google on CALEA too.

[sabrina 1]

29. I asked you one thing, just one quote from some reputable person

that backs up your assertion that it is the job of governments to lie to the people.

Secrets are one thing, lies are another. Any adult knows the difference.

[Pavulon]

31. see that, raise you..Google National Security Letter, thank you and good night...

that could compel you to lie to someone about an investigation by the government or be jailed. You personally could be compelled to lie or face a very long term in a federal prison.

Be aware of your surroundings, a very important part of navigating reality.

[sabrina 1]

33. I have no idea what you're talking about. You are not making

any sense at all now.

[Pavulon]

36. You can be compelled to lie

to others (debatable if still legal with an NSL) alone. IE you work at the store where a target buys his coffee. The FBI can compel you to gather information and also gag you.

Its called a National Security Letter. The federal government amended the corporate accounting laws to allow companies to LIE to shareholders about sales to federal agencies.

Yes they do Lie to you..

[RandomThoughts]

37. No you can't be made to lie, you can agree to lie by an order by a system

that is built for secrecy, you don't have to lie. Although nobody is perfect, that is not an excuse for lying.


How many people in media get letters on what they can talk about, what about the private sector and the black rooms.

[Pavulon]

40. You can make a choice

one outcome may involve a federal prison or being held on contempt. No one can hold a gun to your head, but they can ruin your life.

[RandomThoughts]

128. Yep they can ruin your life by turning you into a liar for them.

:shrug:

[sabrina 1]

39. You mean they, like any criminal, can threaten you and your

family in order to get your cooperation? I know that, so can the Mafia. And it is a crime to do so. Just because they get away with it, doesn't make it less of a crime.

If they are working for the good of the people and are asking for cooperation, they would get it most of the time. Without having to threaten people. Once they resort to that, then they are doing something wrong.

[Pavulon]

41. The FBI used them, those were DOMESTIC tools

obviously the CIA has no such restriction when dealing with foreign nationals or people declared targets by a court in the US.

[sabrina 1]

45. They HAVE such restrictions. The laws of OTHER countries

are restrictions. Which is why Italy and Spain are and have prosecuted CIA agents for operating illegally in their countries. Among others.

[Pavulon]

49. And yet our embassies still have CIA staff there...

cars with trunks and airplanes too.

[RandomThoughts]

35. National security letters are a ticket to totalitarianism.

And deserve what they get.

Seen the effect of such things, people can pass out that concept, and a person wrongly accused can be smeared, and with nobody telling him, he has no defense in the court of public opinion.

As far as other uses, I try to restrain anger, since obviously they are used for malicious purposes.

Since I still don't have beer do I.


Fuck um.



Side note, Google, according to media, were a group that would not go along with that concept, although since it was in news, it might mean they were the ones going along with that concept.

:shrug: But I heard the two sonic booms :)

[Pavulon]

43. No the letter means if you are an ISP employee

and the FBI is investigating terrorism or kiddie porn you can be restrained from making that investigation public under threat of imprisonment..

Once the grand jury hears the case the letter is rescinded.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

50. I think your questions were answered by the prosecutor.

There was no basis for the charges and they should never have been made, according to her. Everyone involved is now under investigation.

He has no history of being the kind of sexual deviant you just suggested he might be. Why would you assume this?

You are a perfect example of why these kinds of false allegations are so dangerous. They only have to be made for some people to give them credibility.



The question is, how did that Tabloid get the information about the women 'asking questions' of the police in the first place? Since it is illegal for the Prosecutor and the Police to release such information under penalty of law?

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

116. My report is not at odds

with the facts. Karin Rosander is currently 'on leave' because she violated Sweden's laws about releasing the names of suspects. She may end up losing her job, even though the name was out there, she should not have confirmed the information according to the law.

[me b zola]

55. I didn't have internet access the day that this "story" broke

...but I did wake up to "breaking news", the Swiss have dropped charges of rape and molestation against so-in-so(sorry, I won't link his name to rape). I knew immediately that this was a campaign to smear him. I am the survivor not only of rape, but of prosecutors misusing their power, I know bullshit when it is flung at me, and this stunk to high heaven the moment the breathless cnn newsreader kept repeating his name in the same sentence as rape and molestation, even though the "breaking news" was that the charges were dropped.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

62. That is a false statement. He is not charged with

molestation. The prosecutor is investigating whether or not there are grounds for charges. Big difference.

And FYI, a molestation charge in Sweden is far different to a similar charge here. It includes a range of issues, and is more of a misdeamor, carrying at most a fine, and/or up to one year in jail.

He is NOT charged, so that was a false statement.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

65. Are you capable of reading?

You falsely claimed that he was charged with molestation. I explained what that means in Sweden, not what you thought it meant. I also corrected your false statement. The prosecutor has stated that she is investigating that 'accusation'. He is not wanted, not for any charge. Are you saying he is?

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

70. Accused and charged are two different things.

He was accused and CHARGED with rape, wrongfully as it turns out and a warrant was issued, that has been withdrawn.

Oh, I see, he is a man so he must be guilty. I get it now. You don't really care if he is guilty or not. Just 'fry'em' as someone above said about these cases and the attitude of some women.

He was accused of the misdeamor, molestation, which is under investigation to determine if charges should be pursued.


There are no semantics, Sweden's law is clear, no prosecutor or police officer are permitted to discuss charges or name the accused until there is a conviction. That law was broken in this case, so the prosecutor is addressing the events caused by that violation of the law.

The woman is unknown to him at this point. You are making stuff up for different reasons than the CIA, but with the same disregard for the facts and justice.

He granted an interview today to Al Jazeera English, and is currently planning to meet with the prosecutor with his attorneys, to get this sorted out. I predict a huge lawsuit, probably against the women and definitely against the news papers who published the story.

But you have not addressed the question of how the Tabloid, Expressen, got the story? We know they did not get it from the prosecutor or the police, so who gave them this story? That will be the most interesting part of the story.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[reorg]

75. so far the victim is Assange

I predict you'll use every opportunity to make excuses for the irresponsible action of the on-call prosecutor (currently on leave) and the accuser (currently on holiday), who went to a right-wing tabloid to smear an activist who is currently in the crosshairs of the most violent and brutal power on earth.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[reorg]

82. I wonder how you would react if you were in the crosshairs of war criminals

[sabrina 1]

80. Give it up. That old tactic doesn't work anymore.

There is no victim and there is no guilty party. When there is get back to me.

Especially since the 'alleged victim' has not been attacked, just discredited, by the prosecutor. One of them so far.

I reported the facts of the case, and since I do not know who the accusers are, nor do you, nor does he, your fantasy, fun thought it may be for you, is irrelevant to anyone but yourself.

And yes, welcome to DU. I always thought that people who make up facts in cases like this, are anti-women. They diminish the real crime of rape and put real victims at risk of not being believed.

You're not Nancy Grace by any chance are you? :eyes:

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

121. I predict a Western movie.

Starring Kurt Russell and Val Kilmer.

[2 Much Tribulation]

71. welcome to DU

Yes, a woman has made a charge. And major parts have been publicly retracted. But even without that retraction, charges don't constitute facts and it is not "guilty until proven innocent" in Sweden. More power to feminism, but it will be jettisoned further by those who believe in due process and innocent until proven guilty if the right to smear is insisted upon in situations like this.

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[reorg]

77. of which you know nothing

[reorg]

73. The woman was not his employee

Please cite your sources for this claim.

Nobody knows what charges were made. The chief prosecutor has revoked the arrest warrant on the grounds that it is not justified. Anything else is speculation at this point, your disgusting slander included.

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[reorg]

79. the accuser is neither his subordinate nor his employee

She is the one who invited him to Sweden, organized for him to have a party where she alleges something happened she didn't like, and went to a right-wing tabloid one week later to falsely accuse him of rape.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[reorg]

84. read the statement of the chief prosecutor

[Name removed]

86. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[reorg]

91. word is he didn't want to use a condom

But I can see how a true feminist warrior might construe such presumptiousness as rape.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[reorg]

99. I was an admirer of Valerie Solanas before you were born

so spare me this tripe. You don't know what happened, you don't even know the allegation.

What we both know is that the accuser went to a right-wing tabloid who would publish unsupported allegations in order to get into the headlines worldwide.

I hope you feel good being in league with this defender of women's rights:

http://www.resume.se/_internal/cimg!0/qmupayovgn16b7y0zdjmm1wwff7h6nd/Thomas%20Mattsson.jpeg

Thomas Mattsson, editor in chief of Expressen, the tabloid that published the smear.

[sabrina 1]

112. Omg!

That popped up as I scrolled down the page. I wasn't prepared!

Lol, good job defending the facts. It's not easy incredibly even on a progressive board. :hi:

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

88. Except she was not his subordinate. Maybe you should

read the linked post below for some more information before further embarrassing yourself.

I did miss the character assassination. I saw one link to a translated story about the woman who went to the rightwing tabloid. It didn't give much information. However the link below does give some very, very interesting information. Perhaps if she didn't want to be in the limelight, she shouldn't be writing diatribes about how to 'get revenge' on anyone who you perceive to have harmed you, like a guy who 'dumps' you, with full instructions on how to falsely accuse them of crimes related to the 'relationship'.

Again, welcome to DU!

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

94. Rotfl, I think you're very funny.

I've been called many things online, but never a 'destroyer of womankind'! :rofl:

I just wish I had known how powerful I am but thanks for being the first to tell me, um, 'sister'??

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

100. Oh, I couldn't agree more.

So not to worry, we agree. I was laughing at YOU. You really are very funny. I hope it's intentional! :rofl:

[reorg]

106. it increasingly happens to me

too, wondering if I'm being had ...

>>You really are very funny. I hope it's intentional!<<

If so, s/he is very good!

[sabrina 1]

127. Oh yes, brilliant actually. A perfect stereotypical imitation of the real thing.

It was like watching Saturday Night Live.

Like seeing Tina Fey impersonating Sarah Palin eg.

I literally felt like applauding!

Otoh, I do hope s/he wasn't serious. That would make me feel bad

[EFerrari]

97. That was hilarious.

[Name removed]

101. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

104. You have quite an imagination there.

I hope you find good use for it!

[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

111. Well, lock the door and hope they don't have blasters. nt

[sabrina 1]

108. Oh stop, why do I hear violins?

Let's get this straight. You are the one sliming people. You dropped into this thread and declared a man to be guilty of a crime without a shred of evidence, and then attempted to use 'women as victims' to support your cause.

I am sick of women being used for political purposes. I've had fun with you and thank you for playing. But your shameful willingness to send an innocent person to jail, using women as a tool, is something I find to be despicable. You care nothing for justice, but don't attempt to use women, most of us will not allow you do to so, to accomplish whatever it is you are trying to accomplish.

The only sad thing here is that people's lives can and have been ruined by people with your attitude. Thank god for the Female Prosecutor who was quick to right a wrong despite the poltiical fallout to her country because she had the strength of character to do the right thing.

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

113. I know, don't remind me! I am a 'modren descendent of the

destroyers of womankind'. It is indeed dirty work, and hard work too I imagine.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

122. Yes, keep with the personal attacks.

Makes things easier for us.

[sabrina 1]

102. It was! I'm still laughing ...

'A modern descendent of the destroyers of womankind'! I will treasure that above all the other insults I have received online! :rofl:

[EFerrari]

105. If I ever need a destroyer of womankind, I hope it's okay to pm you.

:rofl:

[sabrina 1]

109. Lol, feel free, but I can't guarantee anything, I'm still getting

used to my new powers!

[tsuki]

125. Do those new powers come with a cape and spandex body suit?

:rofl:

[sabrina 1]

126. Don't tell anyone, but I was so moved

and inspired by Molly17's post #92 that, just for a moment, I envisioned myself 'riding bare-breasted to Damascus' at the head of an army of destroyers of women, spear held aloft, charging bravely into battle. Only I wasn't sure what I was fighting for, or against.

Okay, I stole that line from Katherine Hepburn in one of my all-time favorite movies. I don't think they had spandex back then! Lol

[sabrina 1]

117. The prosecutor who spoke to the NYT confirming

the name of the accused, is now on leave, having violated Sweden's law against revealing the name of an accused person. I did NOT falsely claim the prosecutor was barred from discussing it. She WAS, and is now under investigation herself for doing so. The second prosecutor is the one who dismissed the charges AFTER seeing the report which had, in her words, no grounds for such a charge.

[sabrina 1]

66. That was my reaction also. And even before the charges were

withdrawn, nearly every newspaper across the globe expressed the same sentiment. Even in India, headlines aske 'is this a CIA smear'. We have such credibility these days.

As for our media, well it goes without saying that they are a disgrace. Thanks for not mentioning the word and his name in the same sentence. I will be careful to do the same.

[Octafish]

67. The Powers-That-Be Fear Truth

Julian Assange publishes the truth about the war in Afghanistan.

That is no crime, yet he is punished.

George Bush lies America into two illegal, immoral and unnecessary wars.

That is treason, yet he remains free.

Strange days, indeed.

[sabrina 1]

90. Yes, he will need to be very careful. But Bush and friends

haven nothing to fear. Treason is not what we thought it was.

[reorg]

69. I think it's quite clear who first brought up his name

From a blog post (links added):

Anna Ardin is listed as Julian Assange's press secretary.

http://www.mashtechworld.com/2010/08/18/swedish-pirate-get-together-to-host-new-wikileaks-servers-piratpa/

She was the one who invited Assange to Sweden. (Her listing as press secretary was later removed from the Pirate Party's PR about the event, causing further conspiracy theories, but it was removed by her own request since she was drowned in phone calls from international press and nobody, including her, could reach Assange.)

According to her CV she has worked for the Swedish newspaper GT/Expressen. Expressen was the first to publish about the rape charges. (Correction: she worked for GT: Gotlands Tidningen, not for Expressen, reorg)

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:72mg82_klJEJ:annaardin.wordpress.com/about/+anna+ardin+cv&cd=1&hl=sv&ct=clnk&gl=se

English Google Translation:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwebcache.googleusercontent.com%2Fsearch%3Fhl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DtXw%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla%253Aen-US%253Aofficial%26q%3Dcache%253Ahttp%253A%252F%252Fannaardin.wordpress.com%252Fabout%252F%26aq%3Df%26aqi%3D%26aql%3D%26oq%3D%26gs_rfai%3D

... And here's where stuff gets iffy and I was debating whether to include it or not, but well, here goes. Make of it what you will.

On her blog, now closed but dug up from Google's cache, she has written a fair amount about rape. On January 19th she posted a translation of this list about "how to get legal revenge", implying using the law as a tool to get revenge on someone.

http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?p=16282017

7 Steps to Legal Revenge by Anna Ardin
January 19, 2010

I’ve been thinking about some revenge over the last few days and came across a very good side who inspired me to this seven-point revenge instruction in Swedish.

Step 1
It is almost always better to forgive than to avenge

Step 2
You need to be clear about who to take revenge on, as well as why. Revenge is never directed against only one person, but also the actions of the person.

Step 3
The principle of proportionality.
Remember that revenge will not only match the deed in size but also in nature.
A good revenge is linked to what has been done against you.
For example if you want revenge on someone who cheated or who dumped you, you should use a punishment with dating/sex/fidelity involved.

Step 4
Do a brainstorm of appropriate measures for the category of revenge you’re after. To continue the example above, you can sabotage your victim’s current relationship, such as getting his new partner to be unfaithful or ensure that he gets a madman after him.
Use your imagination!

Step 5
Figure out how you can systematically take revenge.
Send your victim a series of letters and photographs that make your victim’s new partner believe that you are still together which is better than to tell just one big lie on one single occasion

Step 6
Rank your systematic revenge schemes from low to high in terms of likely success, required input from you, and degree of satisfaction when you succeed.
The ideal, of course, is a revenge as strong as possible but this requires a lot of hard work and effort for it to turn out exactly as you want it to.

Step 7
And remember what your goals are while you are operating, ensure that your victim will suffer the same way as he made you suffer.

http://nicholasmead.com/2010/08/21/how-to-smear-a-hero/

It is also apparent from her CV that she worked as an intern in Swedish embassies, for the Swedish Development Agency SIDA, has very good Spanish and English language skills, working experience in foreign countries, and wrote her thesis about the Cuban opposition - I wonder if she'll be working for Reporters without Borders some day?

[sabrina 1]

83. Where did she get her degree in 'getting revenge'?

No wonder she tried to disappear that 'advice'. Written in January way before she put the plan into action. She seems to have a problem with the truth.

Thanks for the link, very interesting and good that someoen grabbed that from the cache.

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

89. Absolutely, but the powerful may have screwed up this time.

Assange did get in their way, but it looks like across the globe, public opinion is not on the side fo the powerful who have been after him for quite some time. So there is hope that things are changing in favor of those who stand in the way of the powerful.

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

98. You really love that word, don't you?

Since we're having this little chat, 'sister' let me give you some advice. Women who whine about being 'victims' all the time, even when they're not, as in this case, are weak. I prefer to emulate strong women, women who are honest, truthful, and not in need of having a male to bash, to falsely accuse to make themselves feel better.

Your obsession with infantalizing women, with viewing them all as 'victims' and those who refuse to do so as traitors, or 'destroyer of womankind', is something you should get some help for, but it has nothing to do with this case.

Julian Assange is innocent at the moment, until and unless there is evidence to the contrary. Until then even though you desperately want it, there are no victims. Sorry.

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

120. No, no need for omniscience if you have basic reading skills.

The very capable female who is the chief prosecutor, not to be confused with the prosecutor now under investigation for confirming the name of the accused to the press, the NYT included, has stated that he is innocent of the charge or rape, (which may mean the 'victim' herself will be prosecuted and rightly so if she lied) and that she still needs to review the on the minor charge, in Sweden, of molestation which she is not yet able to declare either true or false. Meaning that Mr. Assange is at the moment, an innocent man.

I hope that's clear enough for you. I do so admire strong women like the Chief Prosecutor, professional and concerned with justice and adherence to what appear to be very good laws, don't you?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

123. The prosecutor must be a Destroyer of Womankind too. -nt

[sabrina 1]

124. Lol! We are a global force! n/t

[chatnoir]

132. Fascinating discussion at the nicolas mead link...

Thanks for posting that

[laughingliberal]

118. K & R nt

[jeff47]

129. "I was not aware that Julian was married, but read today that he is a father of two"

Um...you do realize it's possible to have children without getting married, right? The parts still work even without a piece of paper from the state.

[laughingliberal]

130. Huh. A strange answer to K&R. nt

[sabrina 1]

131. Lol, no, I really thought nothing worked unless you had that

piece of paper, probably accompanied by instructions! :sarcasm:

I should have added that he was also described as divorced.