Al Qaeda is to Islam as the Ku Klux Klan is to Christian Protestantism.

[backscatter712]

http://identi.ca/notice/47067056

Bradley Kuhn said it best.

"When will my fellow USAmericans finally grok this simple analogy?: Al-Qaeda is to Islam as the Ku Klux Klan is to Christian Protestantism."

It's not that hard, folks.

Edit: Changed title.

[grahamhgreen]

1. Exactly. Now can we stop blowing up their children in Iraqistan? NT

[grahamhgreen]

2. Dupe

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jberryhill]

12. The lowest massacre levels? Ever Heard Of Martin Luther?

I humbly ask you to put Martin Luther's 1543 work "On the Jews and Their Lies" on your reading list.

Luther was instrumental in establishing a German national identity. Not only was the break with Rome a key political event, but printing the Bible in German had the effect of standardizing the German language, which was a collection of dialects.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies

In the treatise, Luther writes that the Jews are a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth." Luther wrote that they are "full of the devil's feces ... which they wallow in like swine," and the synagogue is an "incorrigible whore and an evil slut". He argues that their synagogues and schools be set on fire, their prayer books destroyed, rabbis forbidden to preach, homes razed, and property and money confiscated. They should be shown no mercy or kindness, afforded no legal protection, and these "poisonous envenomed worms" should be drafted into forced labor or expelled for all time. He also seems to advocate their murder, writing "we are at fault in not slaying them."

----

Does that program sound familiar to you?

Now, maybe I'm kind of dense, but I'm pretty sure that many Protestant churches consider Luther to be a seminal figure.

...and Calvin was no better.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

13. Bigotry?

Wow. Just wow.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pab Sungenis]

4. The problem is that no one gets the connection

because Al-Qaeda don't wear their supervillain disguises.

http://theferrett.livejournal.com/1497834.html

"The KKK lynched people in the name of Christianity," said a Tweet. "So why aren't all Christians made responsible?"

I've thought about that, and come to a conclusion: It's because the KKK had supervillain outfits. Whenever the KKK were about to do something reprehensible, they'd pull on their hoods and cry, "Quick, Cletus! To the Hatemobile!" and then commit crimes in full and ugly regalia. People say that the whole Clark Kent/Superman thing would never work, but I think the KKK sorta worked in that "glasses on the face" kind of way:

"Dude, those KKK people are totally Christians."

"No way. See those Christians over there, attending mass? They're not wearing big white hoods, are they?"

[jberryhill]

15. This is what slays me about the "Why don't Muslims denounce terrorists" thing....

A great deal of Americans think that Muslims in general need to apologize for the acts committed by terrorists, but those Americans don't understand that terrorist extremists are as recognizable to ordinary Muslims as the KKK is to run-of-the-mill Christians.

Christians don't feel the need to apologize for hate groups like the KKK, because they don't recognize the KKK as "one of their own".

It's the same deal.

[Bluerthanblue]

5. perfect analogy-

:hi:

K&R

[dkf]

6. I didn't realize the KKK based their activities on Bible teachings.

Interesting.

[Deep13]

7. They do as do most Western bigots. nt

[backscatter712]

8. Indeed. They claim that slavery shouldn't have been abolished...

Because the Bible says it's A-OK. :dunce:

[dkf]

10. They have a point there. That was THE dealbreaker for me.

My history Professor was the one who enlightened me on that little gem. I have been disillusioned with the Christian faith ever since and have learned that other religions are just as bad.

I'm still open to Buddhism and maybe I should do more research. Until then I'm an agnostic/atheist.

[Kristin av Havn]

19. Which western bigots?

Just asking.

[Deep13]

27. All of 'em.

All the white supremists.

All the American exceptionalists.

All misogynists.

All homophobes.

All antisemites.

All those who demand authority on the basis of something other than merit.

While the theological connections are not always obvious, they are all based on the assumption that there is a certain order in the world that can only be called divinely ordained.

The only exceptions are bigots who base their prejudice on other religions.

[Kristin av Havn]

29. I know.

I study political science.

I grew up in a political family of social democrats.

I love the enlightenment. Especially the Scottish one...

I think that is at the hear of everything we do?

[Winterblues]

11. Where do you think their burning cross comes from?

:shrug:

[dkf]

17. Actually that is based on a Scottish tradition of burning an x in preparation for war.

[Winterblues]

25. Except it is not an X but a cross and they look quite a bit different from each other.

:shrug:

[petronius]

36. Apparently, D.W. Griffith misinterpreted the shape of the symbol when he made

Birth of a Nation, and the 20th Century (re)founders of the Klan adopted it directly from the movie...

[seabeyond]

26. which was not a cross, that is uniquely the KKK. nt

[jberryhill]

41. Riddle me this one....

Straight from the ADL:



According to the Klan, the blood drop represents the blood shed by Jesus Christ as a sacrifice for the White Aryan Race.


Then we have the Aryan Nation:



A neo-Nazi, Christian Identity organization led by Richard Butler and based in Hayden Lake, Idaho. Aryan Nations is also known as the Church of Jesus Christ Christian. Christian Identity is a racist religion that teaches that whites ("Aryans") are descended from the Lost Tribes of Israel and are thus God’s chosen people; also that Jews are descendants of Satan and non-whites are soulless "mud peoples."

And this adaptation of a Celtic Cross, courtesy of the fine Christians at Stormfront:

[jberryhill]

14. Ummm...

Does the object in this picture look familiar to you:



They call it cross "lighting" - not burning.

They don't burn crosses as some kind of rejection of Christianity - it is their way of ILLUMINATING a cross.

Notice the cross symbol on the snazzy outfits too.

Yes, they consider themselves Christians.

[Posteritatis]

21. They often *think* they do. (nt)

[seabeyond]

23. damn straight they do and did. the deacons ect... the elite of the community, the church goers

were the members.

[bobbolink]

54. And the belt buckles of the Nazis said "Gott Mit Uns" (God With Us)

Don't notice mainstream Christians apologizing for the Nazis, either.

Of course, I never heard the Bushes apologize for Prescott supporting Hitler.

We Murkins don't do apologies well, why should we expect others to do better?

[Deep13]

9. Agreed. As with any extremist sub-group...

...it finds its support among sympathizers in the wider population. Also it is enabled by those who in principle oppose what the extremists stand for because of a vocal insistence on respect for religion.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Deep13]

28. Did you even read my post?

Your example of Germany WWII is a good example. While I would not have hated all Germans or presumed that any particular German was a Nazi, I do hate all Nazis. And I would have to recognize that the Nazis got their support from the larger German population who sympathized with and supported Nazis. Not being a religion meant that there were no liberals advocating the right of Germans to practice Nazism.

The analogy is not entirely without problems, of course. While being German is a simple fact of nature, acceptence of a religion by a believer is entirely voluntary, especially in the West.

[Kristin av Havn]

31. I am very sorry.

I did not read your post fully enough.

I was so hair trigger, because I get angry at people who support sharia.

Your post?

I could have written it myself.

So, sorry about that. We progressives have to fight together.

Kind regards,

Kristin

[seabeyond]

34. maybe the problem is in the way you interpret. i dont support any religion.

i support anyones right to their religion. i dont think this statement is supporting sharia. i think your premise for argument is incorrect.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

49. The center is a Sufi project. Do Sufis support sharia?

[jberryhill]

45. Methinks you need to understand the definition of "sharia"

There is wide variation in how ANY Islamic group will interpret "Sharia".

Just as there is wide variation in how various Jewish groups interpret Halakhah.

Do you support "The Ten Commandments"?

[Kristin av Havn]

18. Western people are dumb

dumb dumb dumb.

It's a stupid analogy.

[seabeyond]

24. instead of just calling people dumb, maybe you ought to explain how cause at this point, YOU

are the one coming off dumb..... dumb dumb dumb

[Kristin av Havn]

32. It's just that kkk has little or no support in western ideology

Whilst Al Qaeda has plenty in the sunnah and the quran. :-(

40 percent of young muslims support Sharia. 40 percent of young texans do not support the KKK?

[seabeyond]

33. talk to the fundamentalist christians preaching from the old testament and they will find plenty

that will give them support from the bible. i know this. i hear it quoted often. had to do a lot of research with the bible to see where and why they embraced their hate as a christian act. they ignore the new testament and boldly say they ignore the new testament, preferring the anger of the old.

i live in that world.

[petronius]

35. Sharia and al qaeda are not synonymous (nt)

[jberryhill]

42. "Sharia" is a broad term for law

The Ten Commandments is "Sharia".

[LanternWaste]

46. Every analogy may be tested to a degree in which it break down, yes?

Every analogy may be broken down to a degree in which it is no longer valid, yes?

So I imagine the question (within the context of the OP) is if the analogy makes it intended point to its intended target.

If it does, then as an analogy, it is valid. Not merely quite valid, but also quite effective... :shrug:

[jberryhill]

48. How many Catholics support the Irish Republican Army?

That'd be a good thread starter, really....

[Deep13]

56. Western ideology is an interesting concept.

It seems to have two distinct origins. The oldest and most European origin is Athens and all that is associated with that. The other is a Jewish heresy that somehow became the world's largest religion. I'm sorry to say that racism and xenophobia has support in both sources, though it is much more solidly grounded in its adopted Abrahamic tradition than it is in Hellenism.

[Vehl]

22. well said. nt

[JerseygirlCT]

30. I've been saying just that throughout this whole silly biz

(Silly because it shouldn't even be an issue).

[Enthusiast]

37. It's too easy to be misinformed

when the media seldom has and accurate information.

[WinkyDink]

38. No need for the word "Christian" preceding "Protestantism."

[deaniac21]

39. I guess it's a good thing that the klan doesn't have Al Qaeda's

funding or pilotong expertise.

[MellowDem]

40. It's a bad analogy...

for many reasons. The KKK was first and foremost about race, not religion. They killed many other Protestant Christians. Also, they combined faulty science with religion to create their ideology. And anymore, the KKK does indeed recruit people who are not protestants, and sometimes who are not even "white" in the traditional KKK sense.

I don't think a good analogy can be made to Al Quaeda. They are a product of many modern events that are unique to our time.

If you are trying to make the simple point that one group doesn't represent all "insert name here", then there are much easier ways to do it. But it's hard to get people to listen to that, even here on DU. These really tenuous analogies won't do it. Until many of these intolerant people actually meet or live around Muslims long enough to get to know them, they probably won't think rationally about it.

[jberryhill]

43. And Al Qaeda kills a lot of Muslims, too

Simply because the KKK has had Protestant victims is no reason not to understand their Protestant roots.

Jiminy Christmas, to say it is about "race" without mentioning the underpinning of the "mark of Cain" as that which distinguishes God's people from the darker races is quite a blind spot.

Protestants are as happy to kill each other as any other broad umbrella of groups of folks. Scottish Presbyterians and English Anglicans can go at it with gusto - as can various Islamic sects.

It's about PEOPLE. It's what HUMANS do - draw lines and fight. It doesn't even have to be a religious line, which is why the "that's why I detest religion" folks are off the mark as well.

[MellowDem]

44. Well sure... but it was an analogy...

and considering race's origins and the KKK's main purpose were quite secular and economic, it doesn't hold up well.

[jberryhill]

47. Well... let's see... Are there many Catholic or Jewish KKK Members?

They seem to pretty much be protestants.

It doesn't matter if their "purpose" is secular and economic. The Irish Republican Army has secular and economic purposes, and they are STILL Catholic.

Al Qaeda didn't attack NYC to convince people to become Muslim. They attacked to inspire a reaction AGAINST Islam, and some nitwits are playing right along.

[MellowDem]

50. Sure it matters...

A secular/nationalist terrorist group will evoke different reactions than a strictly religious one. And yes, there are actually Catholic white supremacists. And yes, there are Jewish racists, though they are usually included as a race themselves by the white supremacists. But you don't have to go any farther than the Israeli Palestine issue to see Jewish supremacists and a modern day apartheid.

[jberryhill]

52. Often religion is a matter of flags of convenience for folks with a strictly temporal agenda

My point is that the trouble in North Ireland is not over religion per se, but is neatly divided into "Catholic" and "Protestant" labels simply because the Irish were Catholic and the British were Protestant. They are both praying to the same peace-lovin' Jesus.

Same deal in the Lebanese civil war - that one group was denominated "Muslim" and the other group "Christian" was an easy guide to who's-who, but it wasn't WHY they were fighting.

Religion can be useful for folks with other agendas, but I sincerely doubt the Iran-Iraq war was about some generous impulse on the part of the Iranians to "liberate" Iraqi Shi'ites. However, that is a convenient tune to sing.

If you think Al Qaeda is really on some religious kick, then you're going to have to figure out why they keep blowing up Muslims in Pakistan. Their agenda is anything but "Jihad" - that's just a recruiting tool. If WE make it a Christian/Muslim conflict, that only helps THEM.

[seabeyond]

55. i don't think Al Quaeda is anymore about religion either, they are both about hate and power. they

both use their religious text to justify their hate

[bobbolink]

51. That comes this close to fitting on a bumpersticker.

Would make a great billboard!

[jberryhill]

53. Or the IRA and Catholicism

The Irish Republican Army - they blow stuff up and they are Catholic.

That makes Catholics terrorists, right?

No Catholic churches near IRA bomb sites....