Nail Salon Charges More For Overweight Customers

[CatWoman]

this is ridiculous...........



DEKALB COUNTY, Ga. -- Michelle Fonville said her experience at Natural Nails on Covington Highway in DeKalb County turned from pleasant to painful in a matter of moments.

“I was humiliated. I almost cried. Tears were forming in my eyes,” said Fonville.

She said things went downhill on Monday after the salon manager gave her the bill for her manicure, pedicure and eyebrow arch.

Fonville realized that she had been overcharged by $5.

“I said, ‘I’ve been overcharged. She may have made an error,’” said Fonville. “She broke it down, then told me she charged me $5 more because I was overweight.”

Fonville said she couldn’t believe what was happening and recounted the experience with Channel 2 Action News reporter Eric Philips.

“I said, Ma’am, you can’t charge me $5 more. That’s discrimination because of my weight,” said Fonville.

Salon manager Kim Tran told Philips that the surcharge was due to costly repairs of broken chairs by overweight customers. She said the chairs have a weight capacity of 200 pounds and cost $2,500 to fix.

“Do you think that’s fair when we take $24 and we have to pay $2,500? Is that fair? No,” Tran told Philips.

Tran said she refunded the $5 surcharge, and told Fonville to take her business elsewhere.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/24708583/detail.html#

[JustAnotherGen]

1. Oh my goooood

What a load of B.S. on the 'chairs' crap! :angry: Big old 250 lb juice heads come into the salon I go to in order to get pedicures.

Good for the customer for pushing back. And I hope a LOT of people don't use that salon as a result of the publicity.

[LWolf]

2. People seem to crave bigotry.

If it's not about race or ethnicity, it's about gender. Or sexual orientation. Or size. Or culture. Or....

When it becomes politically incorrect to discriminate against one group, people find another.

:(

[ThomasQED]

50. i think you're right

and it's particularly disappointing when one group that has experienced it is still prejudiced against another.

[hlthe2b]

3. I was normal weight when I spent time in Thailand and in Asia...

Yet, I felt like a whale compared to the tiny Asian women.... Going into shops and looking at clothes was an exercise in sadism, since a size one would have looked big on their racks (and I surely wasn't a size one--lol).

I say this because I note the owner/operator has an Asian name and am making the assumption.... Compared to the average tiny Asian women, the bulk of the ever increasing average American must be nearly unbelievable.

That said, this is disgusting. I feel for the customer, who was humiliated. They can raise their prices across the board if they need to buy better constructed chairs... :shrug:

[Lorien]

95. Any average office in America has a good 40% or more of workers over 200 pounds

including most men. Her excuse is totally bogus. My morbidly obese & tall father who must weight at least double that has never broken a chair anywhere. And $2,500 to "repair" a chair? Most salon chairs cost less than $100.00! http://www.amazon.com/Hydraulic-Barber-Styling-Beauty-Equipment/dp/B00312D6PU/ref=pd_sim_dbs_op_8

[Lance_Boyle]

119. most manicure/pedicure salon chairs are the vibratey-massagey kind

and they cost $2500 and up. This is not a barber chair.

[uncommon]

124. Indeed. And even the cheap ones have a higher than 200 lb weight limit.

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/product.jsp?productId=199635&pid=Froogle&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=113949

This one is 350 lbs.

[Missy Vixen]

4. We're planning a pedicure outing with a friend who used to play pro football

He's 6'6" and weighs 310. Nobody argues with him. He typically has pedicures with his preteen daughter. It's their "bonding time". He freely admits he loves to go.

It's a shame we're not in Georgia; I'd love to see the look on Ms. Tran's face when she got a look at our buddy.

:woohoo:

[Divernan]

5. The customer is not always right..

1. Overweight people are not a protected class under the law.
2. Looking at the video of the customer, she's easily 300 lbs.
3. Looking at the chairs in the video, I'm surprised the customer could even fit into one.
4. I have 2 friends (guys) who top 250 lbs. and they have ruined the springs on my very well built sofa, and a similar wing chair. The passenger side front seat of my mid-size car will not accommodate them without an expander added to the seatbelt.
5. This is the same situation as airplane seats.
6. Weight limitations at "Holiday World" amusement park in Indiana:
# Lewis & Clark Trail (driver under 42" must ride with taller front-seat passenger; absolutely no standing; maximum weight limit of 400 total pounds in 2-seat cars and 800 total pounds in 4-seat cars)# Reindeer Games (42"; maximum weight 165 pounds)
7. Women's catalogs offering the same size in "regular" and "womens 1x, 2x, 3x" charge more for the larger sizes.
8. When on vacation in Alaska, we booked a day trip to Admiralty Island on a small, prop plane. The website clearly stated that no one weighing more than 250 lbs. could fly on this plane. Same for some small prop planes in the Caribbean.

I would point out to the salon owner that if a chair collapses under the weight of a customer - OR a guest in your home, and they claim back injury, the owners can be sued.
I struggle with my weight and I empathize with the customer. The scales don't lie, and seating is designed with limitations. The customer stated "This is America." as if that would change the laws of physics. What next - going after Lands End, L.L.Bean, Disneyworld, etc.?

[DavidDvorkin]

6. All good points

which won't protect you from irrational attacks on DU.

[Divernan]

7. I know. Americans have gotten so used to obesity, it's like a sacred cow.

How many years is this woman taking off her life with this excess weight? She has more important issues to deal with than manicures and pedicures.

[Hello_Kitty]

9. You have GOT to be shitting me.

Obesity as a "sacred cow". :rofl:

No, the sacred cow is the belief that you can say whatever nasty thing you want to about a fat person, especially if you couch it in phony health concern.

[Divernan]

14. Health concerns are all phony?

Diabetes, cholesterol, high blood pressure -
Thank you Doctor Hello_Kitty.

[Hello_Kitty]

23. Sure, Divernan, all the meanness directed at fat people is borne of genuine concern

Sure it is.

[Divernan]

25. Sure, insecure people have to have someone to ridicule - that's mean.

But according to your extreme view - any reference to obesity is per se mean.
There are very real, life shortening, life threatening health complications from obesity. Everyone knows it.

Do you also refuse to acknowledge the serious health problems resulting from smoking?

[Missy Vixen]

27. I'll bet Ms. Tran has never asked anyone thin if they're bulimic or anorexic

She's on a slippery slope, and she and her business just came to national attention.

It's interesting to me that there is always someone in these threads that wants to bring up the negative "health effects" of obesity, but upon further questioning, they're just mad that their fun's over re: fat people who are tired of being treated poorly because others can't control their urge to belittle and bully. It has nothing to do with health and everything to do with "I don't want to sleep with you, therefore, you're not human."

I had a pedicure three months ago. They're a big treat, so I don't get to go often. I've never had a problem at the nail salon. Then again, I go somewhere more interested in customer service than staging an unprofessional and inappropriate "health intervention".

[Lightning Count]

28. Is there a minimum weight requirement for the salon chair?

I am sure there is a maximum. As I said down a ways, this woman should have never been allowed to sit in the chair in the first place.

[Scout]

60. THIS WOMAN didn't break the chair....

SUPPOSEDLY a chair or chairs had been broken previously, so now all "overweight" individuals are charged a surcharge.

that's bullshit.

[npk]

68. The surcharge is added to persuade the customer not to return

to the store. It is a nice way of saying if you keep coming back you are going to have to pay more money. So please go away. :sarcasm:

[Lightning Count]

69. The chair has a maximum weight.

She was past the maximum weight. Do you also like to test the strength of elevators by exceeding the maximum capacity? Those warnings are not for entertainment purposes :).

[npk]

77. Good point. n/t

[LostinVA]

100. Then get a stronger chair or post your policy

Simple.

[Lightning Count]

110. We do not know that the policy was not posted anywhere.

But it's a good bet. No disagreement whatsoever. I have a feeling that if there was a weight policy posted though that there would still be outrage.

[Scout]

107. they obviously didn't give a shit she was past the maximum weight, as they let

her use the chair, no questions asked ... then tried to slap her with their stupid fee. If they were truly worried about the chair supporting her weight, they'd have weighed her beforehand and then not allowed her to use the chair.

[Lightning Count]

111. Absolutely.

No disagreement whatsoever. But I have a feeling that if there were weighing people beforehand there would still be outrage.

[Hansel]

151. Yes it would be. Which just goes to show what an inept business

owner she is.

You buy your equipment to be able to serve all of your customers. If you don't and you offend them, you lose business. If you are too stupid to understand how to run a business and adequately equip it, then you maybe should get in another line of work.

The business owner is not the sharpest tool in the shed. The relatively few extra dollars to invest in adequate equipment for her clientele would have save her a lot of ill will. Part of being in business is understanding that one of your assets is "good will".

[Lightning Count]

159. How much would the investment be and how much would the return be?

If I am 4'2" and GM does not make a car that I can see over the dash, is is GM's stupidity for not catering to me?

I see the salon owner wrong for not stating this policy upfront and allowing her into the chair in the first place. She has no obligation though to buy a chair that can accommodate any particular weight.

[slackmaster]

118. If I were the salon's insurance agent, I'd have a serious talk with the manager about it

The weight limit is a safety issue, therefore a liability issue.

[Divernan]

29. Did you READ the OP? There was no "health intervention" of any kind.

It's a business matter, a profit and loss issue. The chair had a weight limit of 200 lbs. & the customer weighed significantly more. Now you've gone off on bulimia and anorexia and whether someone wants to sleep with someone?

Might one ever so gently suggest that some people are mean to anyone who dares mention the negative health effects (overwhelmingly documented in peer reviewed medical articles) of being morbidly overweight.

[Hello_Kitty]

31. Um, YOU brought up "health concerns" upthread. Remember? eom

[Missy Vixen]

33. Then let Ms. Tran put a sign on the door and prominently displayed in the salon

that anyone weighing over 200 pounds will not be served. It's as simple as that. Instead, she tried to scam those who obviously didn't fit in her chairs. I would also submit that the chairs involved weren't meant to be used in a business in the first place.

>It's a business matter, a profit and loss issue.<

You bet it is. Display a freaking sign. Tell those who still persist that their business isn't welcome, and they're free to seek a mani/pedi and brow arch elsewhere.

>Might one ever so gently suggest that some people are mean to anyone who dares mention the negative health effects (overwhelmingly documented in peer reviewed medical articles) of being morbidly overweight.<

Do you think it's a surprise to the fat that they are? Do you also believe that anyone that is overweight hasn't heard what a drain on society they are/how they shouldn't be allowed out in public/gets treated with discrimination everywhere they go? Gosh, I'll bet they're so grateful to have it pointed out again.

While you're flogging the "peer reviewed medical articles", you might also take a look at recent research that states some interesting findings on the effects of the human body of the chemical and hormonal soup we bathe in these days. Then again, it's more fun to shame and berate the fat. Again.

[ThomasQED]

43. The chairs in the video look like special chairs,

the type you see in nail salons. They were meant specifically for the type of business she owns.

[Missy Vixen]

44. I've sat in those chairs before

I've never had a nail chair break while I was sitting in it or afterwards. I went to two different nail salons in our community previously, and I've been to Gene Juarez Salon's pedicure room in Redmond, WA. Nothing broke.

Ms. Tran either picked up a cut-rate "business" chair, or those chairs weren't meant for a high amount of daily usage.

[ThomasQED]

47. Not familiar with Gene Juarez Salon...

if that is supposed to convey something to me.

She may have gotten "cheap" ones, though if her claim of $2,500 per chair is accurate, that's not the case. I was just respondiing to your "I would also submit that the chairs involved weren't meant to be used in a business in the first place.".

:hi:

[Missy Vixen]

84. Gene Juarez Spa

Exclusive, expensive, and I haven't been there for probably five years.

I visited every 8-12 weeks for a pedicure without incident.

They wouldn't accept clients that caused damage to their equipment. I'm sure their pedicure beds are exponentially more expensive than Ms. Tran's.

http://www.genejuarez.com/Salons-And-Spas/Redmond.aspx

[Lightning Count]

70. I've rode in elevators that were overfilled.

Must mean that that it's safe?

[Missy Vixen]

82. I don't ride in overfilled elevators

Why do you?

[Lightning Count]

114. If you're in the back and they cram in, you have a problem.

Only happened once or twice, but kept my fingers crossed.

[Hansel]

155. Yes, because there's just about a story a week of elevators falling

because they are over weight capacity.

:sarcasm:

I'm pretty sure that in order to stuff enough people into an elevator to go over the weight limit, unless they were all carrying fully loaded bar bells, that the doors would not shut. In which case the problem would be those at the front of the elevator falling into the shaft so you would be safe.

If your that worried about it there are always stairs. Or you could get off and take a different one.

[Scout]

108. how do you know they were overfilled? did you weigh everyone? n/t

[Lightning Count]

113. Pretty good estimate.

# of people multiplied by estimate weight.

[laughingliberal]

90. If the salon's chairs have a weight limit, the salon should not allow people over the weight limit

They need to buy better chairs or make it policy not to serve customers over the weight limit. They also need to inform first time customers of this policy when they call for an appointment. Allowing the woman to sit in a chair for which she was over the weight limit was unsafe for the customer. Had the chair broken and the woman been injured, she'd have an excellent case against them.

That said, I had a male boss who went to the same salon I did every Friday for a pedicure. He was about 6' 7" tall and, I'm guessing, every bit of 300 lbs. AFAIK, he still goes there every Friday. I've never known of any issue with their spa chairs. Buying good equipment is smart business. Can you imagine the bad will the salon would engender if this well know, wealthy entrepreneur here in town was turned away for his weight? Wouldn't be good for business, trust me.

[Missy Vixen]

129. laughingliberal, we have the same situation

>He was about 6' 7" tall and, I'm guessing, every bit of 300 lbs.<

I mentioned upthread that we have a friend who used to play pro football that loves pedicures. He's 6'6" and 310 pounds. He's also a local media personality. I know how much he weighs because he discussed it on the local sports radio station the other day.

Somehow, I'm betting that there will be nothing said to him about his weight.

[Hansel]

139. Exactly.

They are willing to use weight as a reason to bring in more revenue, but did not protect the customer from potential injury.

Way to open yourself up to a lawsuit ding bat. If the weight limit on the chair was 200 lbs and the employee had reason to believe the customer was over that limit, she was obligated to tell her so.

[LostinVA]

102. What she did is also illegally -- she charged different rates for different people

UNPOSTED rates.

[Heywood J]

178. +1

Doing things the way the salon did violates laws concerning the provision of honest services. Businesses are not just allowed to tack on hidden fees and surcharges you would not have agreed to, after you obtain the service.

[Dorian Gray]

56. If the chair

had a "weight limit" then she shouldn't have let her freaking sit in the chair in the first place.

[LostinVA]

101. Then the owner can buy a stronger chair

Which costs significantly less than $2,000. Many men are 200+ lbs., and many women are now, too.

I am pretty fit, I run, I eat healthy, but what the salon owner did was only only bad business practice, but against the law. You can't charge people different rates for the same exact service, including tacking on a bogus, UNPOSTED surcharge.

[Zoeisright]

173. Yeah, and it's none of your fucking business.

Ever hear of autonomy in medical ethics? People get to decide for themselves how they live their lives, and you have nothing to say about it. I'm just sorry that sneering at fat people doesn't give you cancer, the way breathing cigarette smoke does.

[eridani]

53. Yes, they are all phony

Being diabetic or having high cholesterol has exactly what to do with having nails painted?

[npk]

67. It has to do with this woman exceeding the maximum weight limit of the chairs provided

The store owner was trying to be nice, but was caught in a no win situation. Either refuse this lady all together, or add a surcharge. Obviously there is nothing that this customer could have done to prevent this problem from occurring. No nothing at all. Not a thing.

Who knows maybe a boycott will spring up overnight. I mean that is the real issue in the story. Not that this lady represents a growing problem in this country and refuses to do anything about it, actually expects others to adapt their way of doing business to her, nope the big story here is that this lady had to pay a whole extra $5 dollars to get here nails done. That's right a whole $5.

[eridani]

97. No,the store owner is a silly twit, who, if actially concerned about damage to chairs

--would have gotten a clue from carnival rides. There really are safety issues there--that's why they post "You must be this tall to ride" and weight limist where relevant.

[Hansel]

147. No it has to do with the ower endangering this women's safety.

The owner is not trying to be nice. She is trying to go on the cheap and then force her customers to pay for her cheapness, both financially and by risking their safety.

She needs to supply her store with the proper equipment to ensure the safety of the people who use it. If she can't do that, maybe she should get in another line of work.

[Mimosa]

160. Are there any salon pedicure chairs made to accommodate people over 300 lbs?

I think the salon owner was maladroit in charging more money after the service. But that is the way a business would be run in Asia. The business owner can set the rules any way they want.

Don't know about Europe, but friends tell me in most of the world, the customer is definitely not in the dominant position.

[Heywood J]

179. This happened in Georgia.

What happens in Asia is meaningless in this case.

[emmadoggy]

177. Excuse me.

How the hell do you know that this woman "refuses to do anything about it"? Do you know this woman? Why do so many people assume that if you are overweight, you are just hunky-dory happy about that and refuse to do anything about it? Maybe this woman has tried losing weight many times in many different ways. Maybe she actually IS doing something about it. How do you know that 6 months ago she didn't start a diet and exercise regimen and has now actually LOST 20 or 30 pounds? Maybe the pedicure was a personal reward for her success? Seriously, what the fuck do you know about it? You just make an assumption that because she is overweight, she fully wants to stay that way and expects society to "cater" to her.

In addition, if the salon owner wants to recoup expenses for the chair (that THIS woman did not break, btw), then she should just raise her fees OVERALL, OR at the VERY LEAST, the customer should have been told up front about the additional cost, BEFORE receiving the service.

And as others have pointed out, are they going to turn away someone like a 6'7" football player who weighs 305lbs, who isn't necessarily overweight or obese looking, but nevertheless is very large and over the supposed weight limit of the chairs? Or is it just the ladies who look fat and might weigh 225 or 250? Are they going to put out a scale and demand everyone step on it before getting in the chair?

There are expenses that come up, both expected and unexpected, in running any sort of business. There is daily wear and tear on all sorts of machines and products that businesses use. That's life, and part of running a business. If the owner doesn't want to buy chairs that can accomodate her larger customers or simply deal with an occasional maintenance/repair expense, then she needs to post her policy of only serving customers who weigh under 200 lbs. and make it very clear so people know exactly her policy (as disgusting as it is).

I don't think "the store owner was trying to be nice" in any way, shape or form.

[npk]

183. There are costs associated with running a business

And those costs are passed on to the customer.

I love how so many people here on DU tell the lady who owns this salon to just go out and buy more expensive chairs, more sturdy, heavy duty chairs. Lets assume that 99% of her customers fall into the category that is below the maximum weights on the chairs the salon uses. But this lady in the story represents 1% that exceeds it. This nail salon owner should, according to you and others here on DU, have to go out and retrofit her whole store with more expensive seats. In turn of course the owner would then have to raise prices on all of her customers, which could cause here to lose all of her business.

This nail salon is not owned by a large corporation. This is basically a mom and pop establishment. The profit margins that this owner makes, especially now in this recession, are most likely narrow thin as it is. Once the lease is paid, employees paid, utilities paid, the money left over in profits is most likely pretty tight. So if this owner did got out there and retrofit her store, even though most of her customers wouldn't benefit from it, this owner could end up losing her store. This owner is trying to keep overhead low, in other words, so she can keep the prices in line with what the majority of her customers expect. That is smart business. As a business owner you aim to please as many customers as you can, knowing you will never be able to make all of them happy all the time. You of course shoot for that goal, but you try to find the happy median that keeps the majority of your repeat customers happy.

This business owner is trying to keep the price low for all of her customers. She probably knew that the chairs she bought would be fine for 99% of her business. She may have also assumed that in the rare occasion when a person did go over that weight, it would probably be only negligible weight and that it wouldn't matter. Unfortunately some of her customers were significantly larger and heavier then what the chairs would support. The owner was trying to please everyone, but couldn't. A lot of small business owners fall into this category. They don't have the capital that large corporations have. So every decision they make, even decisions that might seem rather mundane to you, can be critical for the business owner. This woman may have realized that she could not have covered the costs any longer with fixing the chairs and the overhead associated with retrofitting the seats would have put her in danger of losing customers. This is the real world of small business owners. It's tough trying to make these decisions. I know from experience.

People in this thread have called me a bigot. Well that's fine. The only reason I brought up the womans health in the first place was because this lady couldn't understand why she was being singled out. I was trying to explain how her weight makes her life more difficult. Is it fair for this woman to be singled out. In a perfect world of course not. But this is not a perfect world. I am sorry if this sounds mean spirited or cold, but that is just the way the world works.

You said I assume a lot. Well you are right. For the purposes of this discussion I did have to assume many things. But lets get a few things straight. This lady is not just overweight. She's not even a lot overweight. She is close to morbidly obese (I'm making this assumption based on the picture provided in the story). I understand how hard it can be to lose weight and exercise. I battled weight problems myself when I was in college. Soon after I graduated I made a decision though that I was not going to live like that. But I apologize if my attitude in this thread came off like that of a bigot. But this lady, as far as I can tell, is doing very little to change her lifestyle. Instead she appears to be expecting others to adjust to her. That is just not the way the world works.

[emmadoggy]

186. Wow. Way to talk around everything I said.

As I said, you made assumptions about this woman that you have no way of knowing. She may be working very hard on her weight and health and making progress. I think the assumptions you made in your post were disgusting. "As far as I can tell..." All you have is a photo. That tells you NOTHING of what this woman is doing to deal with her weight.

Second, the bigger issue here is the fact that the owner did not state her "policy" up front, BEFORE serving the woman. Not to mention the fact that even though she knew her chairs were not rated for overweight people, she is still putting them in those chairs. Frankly, a 200 lb. weight limit is pathetic. I have a freaking camp chair that has a higher weight limit than that. As someone else pointed out, there is a good percentage of the population that are over 200 lbs. You state that you would assume that 99% of her clientele would be under the 200 lb. limit. I HIGHLY doubt that number. You are making another ridiculous assumption there.

If this is her store policy, it needs to be CLEARLY POSTED and the price difference broken out on her signs. Of course, she didn't approach it that way because she wants to selectively pick and choose which customers she zings with this. I highly doubt that anyone who is told of why they are being charged more would return to that salon. And frankly, short of putting everyone on the scale before she serves them, there is NO WAY for this woman to tell how much each customer weighs. Of course, some will be obviously much lighter than the weight limit and some obviously heavier - but there is a whole middle-of-the-pack that would be very hard to discern. Myself, I am a large-framed woman of slightly above average height. Even though I am overweight, most people still underestimate my weight. I weigh more than I look because of the heavy bone structure and a "dense" build. Of course I'm still fat, but my frame and build help me disguise it slightly better than others. I know women who "look" more overweight than me, yet weigh less. You simply cannot gauge a person's weight by appearance alone.

Oh, and please spare me the lecture on your concern for my health. You make another assumption there when you seem to think that all fat people are completely ignorant and oblivious of the health risks and difficulties and inconveniences we face. Apparently the fat makes us stupid too. :eyes:

[Mimosa]

158. Diverman didn't say anything nasty about fat people

Facts are facts.

Until 2005 I used to frequent a nail salon in Metairie LA run by a Vietnamese American family. They became very good friends to most customers

I can understand both points of view. Those pedicure chairs are expensive. (I never got a pedicure: I was a cheapskate). There were a few larger chubbo customers but , oddly for the NOLA area, I don't recall seeing anybody over 250 lbs. And white or black Americans of even 'normal' weight seem huge compared to Vietnamese women who generally appear to weigh between 90 to 125 lbs. Their kids are getting biggger, I'd noticed.

[Zoeisright]

174. Yes he did.

He made a nasty crack about obesity being a 'sacred cow'. In other words, he can't say something crude about someone's APPEARANCE, which has less than no effect on him other than his apparently fragile eyes, because it's not politically correct.

Actually, it's RUDE to comment about someone's appearance. Or didn't you learn that in kindergarten?

[npk]

34. Who's attacking fat people

The business is only trying to recoup costs associated with larger people adding more wear and tear to the equipment they use. It is no different then Southwest airlines charging more for heavier passengers.

And people in American have become obsessed with eating unhealthy foods. This woman is only hurting herself by possibly shortening her life.

[Taitertots]

188. Where are the people who are saying nasty things about them?

Is stating the fact that they are obese nasty?
Is charging them extra when they break chairs nasty?
Is saying that their lifestyle puts them at risk for health problems nasty?

[Lilyeye]

10. Give me a fucking break. The woman shouldn't have her nails and feet done because she is overweight?

That is total bullshit. With that ridiculous logic, smaller women who have drug and alcohol problems should be focused getting their health in order instead of getting a manicure and pedicure.

[Divernan]

16. What would be fair to her AND the salon operator?

You tell me.

You failed to address a single fact from my post.

[Hello_Kitty]

24. The salon owner should invest in sturdier chairs. eom

[Divernan]

26. And if the salon owner cannot afford it, in this highly competitive business

and these tough economic times?

[Hello_Kitty]

30. Insulting your fat customers isn't a real smart thing to do in tough times either.

Is it?

[readmoreoften]

62. Then she can get a fucking JOB like everyone else.

Fuck BUSINESS OWNERS anyway. I'm sure she's a fucking peach to her employees too...

[Lightning Count]

78. Would you be satisfied if she posted a weight limit sign based on the chairs specs?

?

[Hansel]

146. I would be satisfied if she didn't allow people to endanger themselves

by sitting in chairs that aren't built to hold them.

What else is she endangering her customers with and then charging them more for?

I wouldn't frequent this place because of the owners concern about money over the safety of her customers.

[Silent3]

149. Um... if you really believe "Fuck BUSINESS OWNERS"...

...and think everyone should "get a fucking JOB", who will everyone get a "fucking JOB" from?

This response has little to do with the OP -- where I think the business owner is being ridiculous -- it's more about your blanket condemnation of business owners, which are a pretty important segment of the economy.

I, by the way, have a "fucking JOB", and the woman I live with has a "fucking JOB", so I'm not posting this out of personal self-interest.

[uncommon]

182. +1

[Hansel]

144. OMG give it a rest.

The owner endangered the woman's safety by letting her sit in a chair that she knew was not made to support her weight and then charged extra for the privilege of endangering her safety. I'm sure someone that callous can find some way to buy a chair that would support more weight.

Maybe she should quit being so damn cheap and start caring about someone other than herself and maybe she could get enough business to put that extra few hundred dollars into a better chair.

[Mimosa]

164. In hard times the 1st thing people do is stop getting manicures

The nail salon owner is probably feeling the stress. I've noticed less nail salons in the ATL area over the past 3 years.


The nail salon owner in the story probably can't afford to buy more chairs or repair them when they break. And the economy is such that she probably felt she dare not chare each customer 2 dollars more....

So she thought she'd pass on the cost of broken chairs to the obese customers. Maladroit, but she probably meant no harm.

[eridani]

54. Or post a weight limit sign the way carnival rides have minimum height signs n/t

[Statistical]

86. and to raise funds for the "sturdier chairs" would a $5 surcharge be acceptable? n/t

[Hello_Kitty]

137. Only on fat people? That would be a dick move.

But then, we already know the salon owner is a dick.

[Lilyeye]

49. You really have to ask?

How about telling her UPFRONT that she will be charged a fee because of her weight. That is the fair thing to do. And I didn't address your "fact filled" post. I addressed your post that implied she should be more concerned about her weight than getting her nails and feet done. If that is the case, anybody who doesn't take care of their health has no business worrying about luxuries.

[Hansel]

140. The salon owner should not allow an obese person to sit in a chair

that she knows is dangerous to her. How about that? Since you are so "concerned" about her health.

The owner was more concerned about her chair than the woman's safety. That seems to have gone right over your head as well.

[undeterred]

15. What a caring attitude you have.

[npk]

39. Pointing out this countries obsession and addiction to fattening foods

Might be just what the doctor ordered, if you want people to start living more healthy lives. If you look around the world, almost every other country has people living longer than the USA. And the biggest killer in this country is heart disease. I do think millions of Americans feel they are entitled to live large, eat what ever they want, and expect their health insurance to cover all the costs associated with their unhealthy, unproductive way of living.

[undeterred]

40. And the way to get the point across

is to overcharge people getting their nails done?

[npk]

51. The situation could have been handled differently

Yes that I would concede. Then again I wasn't there. So I have no idea what was said or how it was said. I realize this is a sensitive issue. But IMO what is the business to do. If it is true that the business owner is having to spend a lot of money, more often then they should, to replace expensive chairs, and it is primarily due to certain people who are extremely overweight sitting in those chairs, should the business do nothing. Should the business pass the expense on to all of their customers, possibly causing them to lose all of their customers, or should the business add a surcharge for certain customers.

Is there no time, here on DU, where a business has any rights. Are they just supposed to allow their equipment to continue to be torn up due to unnecessary wear and tear. This seems un fair to me. It seems like the business was trying to handle this as best they could. I mean what should the business do. Put a sign in the window. That would only further humiliate overweight customers, making the issue public. Should they be told before hand. Maybe. But then the customer would feel the same embarrassment as this customer did. Except in this case the customer was refunded their money and yet the person still complained. It seems to me the business chose the best method they thought would be the least offensive.

on edit: typo

[Hello_Kitty]

48. Really, because no one ever mentions what fatty fat fattersons Americans are

You just never hear anything about it. :eyes:

[npk]

61. Actually no. The problem gets little attention

Except mostly among kids and how schools should implement better physical education programs. Not once during the entire health care debate did the President of the United States mention that part of the problem with our crumbling health care infrastructure might be that soaring rates of obesity in adults over the last 4 decades. And why didn't Obama talk about this correlation, because he wanted to avoid offending people delicate sensitivities and of course he didn't want to wake Americans from their slumber party. Over the last decade more and more buffets have sprung up all over this country and more and more people continue to stampede into these restaurants like animals at feeding troughs.

Here in America people have gotten so addicted to food and overeating has become such common practice, that restaurants are now having to reconsider portions. That's right we here in America have stuffed ourselves so much over the years that now even the already large restaurant portions, are no longer large enough.

I'm sorry but I am so sick of people being offended. You would rather die young, as long as you are not offended. Give me a break. I do think it is wrong to make fun of people who are overweight, but Jesus Christ, this country and so many people in it, need a fucking wake up call.

It has nothing to do with being poor and being unemployed. For what so many people in this country pay to eat from buffet style restaurants or fast food empires, they could actually spend less money buying fresh produce from almost any supermarket chain in this country. The reason the vast majority of people don't is because of laziness, entitlement, and ignorance. They stupidly believe that they can eat whatever they want, and science and medicine is going to be there for them in the end to prolong their lives. But hold everything if they have to pay a fucking dime to have that quadruple bypass. Oh hell no. That shit ought to be free.

Some people in this country need to wake up. Sometimes being offended is a good thing. That is if it opens up your eyes.


Just for the record. I am not basing this thread on this lady in the story, but rather the obesity problem in this country in general. And yes I do realize that not everyone in this country that is overweight is that way because of laziness or ignorance or even overeating. But by in large the vast majority have contributed to their own problems and the inconveniences they face in public.

[Scout]

66. and i'm fucking sick of the "concern" and the ignorant assumptions

of the health nazis. and i don't give a good god damn if i offend them or not.

<:rant: not directed at any one poster specifically>

what i eat, what i don't eat, whether or not i have diabetes, whether or not i'm obese, are just frankly none of your god damn business! if you don't want to pay for my health care, go fuck yourself! i'm sick of covering the health care of the fitness freaks with their knee injuries, stress fractures, pulled muscles, etc., and of the people who have children, and of the children...

being fat is NOT a guarantee of a shortened lifespan, nor of diabetes, nor of high blood pressure, nor of heart disease. i will LAUGH when the health nazis do all the things they preach then get hit by a truck jogging and die young anyway. my sister's boss was a former big 10 football player, always in good shape after college, worked out, ate well ... died of a fucking heart attack, you know a real widowmaker--dead before you hit the ground, while working out at the health club.

now my sister, clean living, always took care of herself, no problems except a little high blood pressure, now she's got a level 4 glioblastoma brain cancer killing her slowly. all that healthy eating did her a lot of good, prolonging her life and keeping those medical care costs down for everybody!!

so health nazis, all of you, take your foke concern for my health, fold it five ways, and shove it up your (healthy, tight) asses.

<:rant:>

[Hello_Kitty]

72. "I do think it is wrong to make fun of people who are overweight"

But it's totally okay to berate them, call them stupid, lazy, ignorant, etc.

[npk]

76. In a manner of speaking yes

Laziness as in children addicted to video games and computers, who get no exercise outside.

Laziness in adults who spend an exorbitant amount of time on the couch watching television, rather than spending anytime outside.

laziness in adults who want take the time or make the time to cook properly portioned and healthy meals at home, but will make the time to go shopping for other things, like clothes, beauty supplies, and etc.

laziness in adults, who instead of taking the time to prepare a healthy meal for their kids, horde them into fast food restaurants and buffets

Ignorance in believing that you can live any lifestyle you choose, and that there will not be or should not be any consequences to those actions.

Ignorance in believe that your lifestyle has a right to infringe on the rights of others, including businesses.

I did not call "fat" people stupid. I did use the word "stupidly" in equating a false hood in their line of thinking. That is that how a person lives their lives has no effect on others or has any negative effect on their own.

[Zoeisright]

175. Wow, you sure do make lots of assumptions about people you don't know.

THAT is lazy and ignorant, dear.

Obesity is not always caused by those factors you list. Medications, especially anti-depressants, can pack on the pounds. Someone may not be able to exercise because of physical conditions. And lots of people don't have the time or money to make 'properly portioned and healthy meals at home', especially if they live in inner city nutritional 'deserts' where the stores carry nothing but junk food.

Tell you what. Why don't you educate yourself about the facts of life and the reality of life in this country and quit being so smug and sanctimonious.

[npk]

185. If people didn't make assumptions about people they didn't know

This website wouldn't exist.

I am not the one who needs an education on the facts of life or reality. The only person naive here, is the customer who went into the nail salon.

I'm sorry but business owners have a right to protect their business. And people who are significantly overweight or obese are going to face both health problems and social problems in life. It has nothing to do with being smug, arrogant, or mean. It is simply pointing out the way things are.

Am I making a lot of assumptions. Of course I am. This is a discussion forum, with articles about people, most of us don't know. All we can do is assume, where facts of the story are not present. Nobody is singling out this lady, or at least I'm not. But this lady does represent a growing problem and concern. I see no problem in discussing the ramifications that are associated, with what I view, is a very unhealthy lifestyle that this lady is living.

Sorry, but I do have a right to express my opinion. I have to wade through other peoples constant dribble on this site. So I am going to post some of my own, if that how people want to define it.

[uncommon]

126. You are kidding, right? The "obesity epidemic" is a near daily news story on tv and in print.

[Missy Vixen]

130. I hope you won't be offended by the following

>Over the last decade more and more buffets have sprung up all over this country and more and more people continue to stampede into these restaurants like animals at feeding troughs.<

I can't remember the last time I ate at a buffet. The last time I visited one, I was at a casino, so it's been several years. We don't eat out these days much at all. Sorry to quash your preconceived notions.

>I'm sorry but I am so sick of people being offended. You would rather die young, as long as you are not offended. Give me a break. I do think it is wrong to make fun of people who are overweight, but Jesus Christ, this country and so many people in it, need a fucking wake up call.<

You're not sorry at all. Better get out the big brush: Those generalizations and assumptions are super-sized!

With all due respect, YOU are the one who needs a "fucking wake up call". You are a bigot. Your "concern" has nothing to do with health. Do you think it's a surprise to people who are fat? Furthermore, you believe that you are just the person to inform them of it? Please.

>Some people in this country need to wake up. Sometimes being offended is a good thing. That is if it opens up your eyes.<

If I posted what I'd really like to say to you right now, the post would be deleted. Suffice it to say that I love encountering people like you IRL; it's really funny to watch the bully slink away with his tail between his legs when confronted by someone who won't allow the behavior, towards myself or towards others.

>But by in large the vast majority have contributed to their own problems and the inconveniences they face in public.<

Feel free to post your medical records. I'm sure I'll find something in there I don't want my tax dollars covering. I'm also sure I'll be less than compassionate about your personal problems, too. Why should I give a shit? Maybe it's time for YOUR "wake up call".

[eridani]

55. Yes, but heart disease is half of what is was in the 60s

The fatter we get, the longer our life spans have gotten. No correlation, of course. It would be nice if all the health nazis realized that "correlation is not causation" applies to all sorts of things.

[npk]

63. That is because science has gotten better over the year

Part of the reason why people are living longer, even though they are getting more obese, is because medicine and medical science has gotten better at prolonging peoples lives, even despite their unhealthy lifestyles. This is also the reason, or a large part of the reason, why health insurance has become so damn expensive in this country. It's because people are using their health insurance more than they ever did in the past. And it is becoming more expensive to prolong peoples unhealthy lives, because modern science and medicine costs have soared through the roof.

[eridani]

98. Technology has added little to life expectancy

Americans are three times more likely to get coronary bypass surgery than Canadians, yet the survival rates for those who have had prior heart attacks are pretty much the same in both countries. The two major reasons behind the drop in cardiovascular disease are 1) smokers dropped from 2/3 of the population to about 20% and 2) high blood pressure meds have resulted in significantly better control of hypertension.

Another factor is that overeating, like sickle cell anemia, has benerficial aspects. Sickle cell anemia protects you from malaria, and overeating has eliminated diseases related to inadequate intake of micronutrients such as scurvy and beriberi.

[Lightning Count]

8. Interesting points.

Would it be a better policy if when a chair broke, the customer was charged 2500.00? Or if the salon simply refused service to people who exceeded the chairs capacity? I imagine people would have problems with both of those as well.

[Divernan]

13. The problem needs to be addressed in a manner which is fair.

And if the chair broke, the customer could claim back injury. A grossly obese (that's a medical term defined as weighing more than twice your ideal weight or being more than 100 obs. overweight) person could strain a chair to the breaking point, and it could break under the next customer, who is within the weight guidelines for the chair, who sat in it.

I suppose that these chairs would break down/wear out gradually. The same principle which guides us to flip our mattresses and reverse the ends on them every three months - over time things wear out. If you don't turn them, they develop sags and don't give proper support. You can't flip these chairs. If you're overloading furniture by a factor of 50%, that could happen much more quickly. I've seen list prices for top of the line pedicure/massage/whirlpool chairs at over $5,000.

Whoa! I just was googling stuff about manicures/salons and came across alarming health issues affecting manicurists, re all the chemicals they are working with - some of these chemicals are banned in the EU, so buying internationally manufactured nail polish is preferable to domestic/US products.

From: The High Price of Beauty:
http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_7346.cfm


The EPA first took an interest in nail salons when Asian community groups around Houston approached its regional office with concerns. The Region 6 office published A Guide to Protect the Health of Nail Salon Workers and Their Working Environment in May 2004, which outraged the industry. "It's a ridiculous piece of garbage," Schoon said of the brochure. "The EPA was very embarrassed and pulled it off their website." Region 6's Nail Salon Project was transferred to the DC office, and in March a revised manual, Protecting the Health of Nail Salon Workers, appeared. This time, "we involved all the stakeholders," says Clive Davies, coordinator of the project, including Schoon and the Nail Manufacturers' Council, another industry association.

Their influence is palpable. The 2004 manual stated, "Nail salon products may contain many potentially harmful chemicals that can be a major cause of occupational asthma as well as other health and environmental concerns." The updated version takes a different stance: "Products that nail salon workers use are critical to performing high-quality services, and indeed, without them, these services would not be possible." It later adds a caveat: "If proper care is not taken, overexposure may occur and could result in adverse health effects, such as skin irritation, allergic reaction, or serious eye injury."

Perhaps the biggest drawback of the updated manual is that the EPA evaluates a chemical's health risks based on whether it exceeds OSHA's permissible exposure limits, developed for industrial settings. As Dr. Meyer notes, "These standards are designed to prevent acute problems like neurological intoxication or respiratory difficulty that develop soon after a large dose. They aren't set up to assess cancer and chronic disease which develop from long-term, low-dose exposure." Many of the standards also haven't changed since OSHA first set limits in 1968, when the populations it studied were mostly male. "They don't take into account female reproductive health issues," says Meyer.

[joeybee12]

12. Um, so if the customer falls...that's why business have liability insurance...

try again.

[Lightning Count]

19. So you would be okay with that customer being charged the deductible.

Or any legal and material costs?

[REP]

17. Those are upfront; this was not

Just as well; she doesn't need to risk getting some nasty skin infection at what is an obviously poorly run "salon."

[Alameda]

83. Good points....also XX large garments cost more.

They use more fabric and thread. I sew and believe me, there is a difference between a size 6 and size 16. Larger takes more goods, and more time to produce. Of course you have to charge more.

[CreekDog]

138. but it was wrong to add a surcharge after the fact

the lady explained she saw the surcharge AFTER the service.

that's sneaky and wrong.

and anybody who wouldn't have the guts to tell me up front --i wouldn't trust anything else they said.

[Carolina]

152. your comments are right on target

An overweight friend broke one of my dining room chairs and yes, catalogues do charge more for plus sized clothing while airlines require the purchase of two seats.

It may seem discriminatory but it is also a fact of life. And $5.00 is a pittance compared to the costs, legal and otherwise, if the chair did indeed break causing the customer to fall.

[Lilyeye]

11. They should have told this woman upfront that she would be charged.

Then she could have made the choose on whether she wanted to pay the fee or not. This is a sneaky and unfair practice.

[REP]

18. It's those big, fat nails that take more time, right?

:sarcasm:

Fuck you, Ms Tran.

[MrScorpio]

20. So, because the salon owner bought cheap chairs certain people have to suffer

Ahhh, the American way

[Lightning Count]

21. Actually, the salon owner is being a bit irresponsible here.

That woman should have never been put in a chair where she exceeded the max weight limit.

[MrScorpio]

22. That's another good way of looking at it

[npk]

41. I agree. The customers should be weighed prior to being seated

Nothing embarrassing about that. :eyes:

Of course if we wanted to talk about being irresponsible we might want to look at the customers weight as also being somewhat irresponsible.

[Dorian Gray]

58. If the owner

knew she weighed enough to charge her the five bucks extra for being overweight, then she knew she weighed too much for the chair in the first place.

(Also known as... this whole thing is bullshit.)

[npk]

64. You are right. I was wrong.

The customer should get her nails done somewhere else. Which I believe is what the store owner told her, after refunding her money. That would solve the problem.

[Divernan]

32. And what's your criteria for labeling these chairs as "cheap"?

Looked pretty expensive to me on the video.

[coti]

71. How about the fact that they can only support 200 lbs. when it's not uncommon

for people to weigh well over that.

That's a cheap chair.

Don't want your chairs to break? Buy well-made chairs.

[ThomasQED]

79. She said the chair cost $2,500.

I suspect in most people's opinion, that makes it expensive. Expensive is defined by money, not by how strong it is.

If they make chairs that accommodate bigger people, I bet they'd cost more. A business owner could buy one or two, but then they'd have to direct people to the "fat chairs" and that would be embarrassing for the customers too.

I agree the situation was handled badly on many levels, and it's an unfortunate situation to start with. But I don't think the answer is as simple as many on this thread want to believe.

[coti]

92. You don't see the fallacy of equivocation very often anymore, QED.

Most people just stop doing that as they grow older if they want to be taken seriously in discussion. That's kids' stuff.

I didn't use the word "cheap" to mean "inexpensive." Obviously, $2,500 isn't chump change.

I meant it to mean "not-well-made," which is clear from the context.

A $2,500 chair that is only graded to support 70-80% of our population is not a well-made chair. If I was this business owner, and was shelling out that much money on a stupid chair, I'd expect it to support 300 lbs. plus. I'd expect at least 95% of our population to be able to make use of it. For $2,500, I don't think that would be unreasonable, either.

Maybe the business owner should have done a bit of research before buying from that particular manufacturer.

[ThomasQED]

105. "Most people just stop doing that as they grow older if they want to be taken seriously..."

You mean like name-calling?

I did some Googling before I entered this thread at all, out of curiosity. You can get pedicure chairs for as little as about $500, which might suggest that these are NOT the bottom of the line chairs. Of course it's possible for them to be 5x more expensive and still not very well made, but the fact is NEITHER of us knows that from the article.

Where did you get the "statistic" that at least 20% of the U.S. is over 200 lbs.?

You are just making assumptions and accusations to support your theory.

[Lance_Boyle]

121. Very few women weigh over 200 pounds.

Certainly not 20-30% of women in the US.

Guess who the target market for these chairs is? Women. Not grossly obese women, though.

[uncommon]

127. Really? The average American woman is a size 14. She is also taller than I am.

I am 5'2" and wear a size 14 and weigh over 200 lbs. A 5'6" woman who is a size 14 would certainly weigh more than I do unless she had very little muscle mass.

[Hansel]

157. Wrong. A lot of women weigh over 200 pounds. `

And you would be surprised to find that many women over 200 pounds do not look grossly obese.

[uncommon]

180. *raises hand* -- a lot of them barely look overweight, depending on their height.

This myth that women are tiny little things made of air is disgusting.

[Lorien]

96. It didn't cost that much and they usually hold 400 pounds or more

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/product.jsp?productId=109784 (check Amazon; the prices there are less than $100.00 for a salon chair).

Most American men are over 200 pounds, for goodness sake.

[ThomasQED]

106. But that's a haircut chair, not a pedicure chair

These are the type the video shows, in the price range the owner claims:

chair

[npk]

81. You are not the business owner though

You are telling the business owner how they should run their business.

The irony here on DU is so thick sometimes I literally think I am going to choke. It's amazing how so many people have no problem telling business owners how they should run their company, what products or services they should provide. But if a business owner makes one little change in how they run their business, it''s "oh no you didn't" time around here.


I don't see too many people on DU complaining about Southwest airlines policy for charging extremely overweight customers more money to fly. But a nail salon, well fuck they should just have to buy bigger more sturdy chairs.

Well hell why stop there. Why don't we just make aircrafts bigger, wider. Of course that would make air travel more expensive for all of us, but Fuck who cares lets do it. While we're at it lets super size everything. Couches, love seats, car seats, movie theater seats. Of course this would cause prices of these items and services to sky rocket, but after all businesses should have to adapt to extremely overweight people.

Even though the easiest solution to the problem is to eat healthier, eat less and get a little daily exercise. Fuck no. We're American's and we like to circumvent the easiest possible solution to a problem and work back wards.

On the other hand, lets just not discuss the problem at all. MAybe if we're all silent, the problem will just go away. Shhhh. Don't talk about obesity in this country, and the problem will solve itself.

[coti]

93. Well, yeah, I guess I'm finding fault with the business owner.

Actually, there have been many massive, heated threads on the subject of airline seating on these boards.

Beyond my main point, which is that this business owner is at fault for this for buying a low-quality chair, at the very least this lady has a solid complaint about the bait and switch that occurred. She wasn't informed of the real price she was going to be charged for the service before she agreed to it.

That's not good business.

Neither would putting up a sign saying that overweight customers have to pay extra for the service. Maybe that's why they didn't put one up? But, that would have given her a chance to take her business elsewhere before services were rendered.

I'm not even talking about the insult of discriminating price by weight looks. That's a separate issue.


In any case, they're not running their business well, so, yeah, I'm being critical of them. You blame "society" for people not being more fit, which is a legitimate point, too. But, the fact is that people ARE overweight in this country, and businesses need to account for that by buying quality products (like chairs that can support more than a MEASLY 200 lbs.!) where it is perfectly REASONABLE to do so.

[Liberal_in_LA]

35. OMG!

:(

[JI7]

36. Why didn't the Salon tell her before she would be charged more for Weight ?

why don't they get stronger chairs ?

the Salon was wrong in this even if you are ok with charging more since they didn't tell the customer before.

[JI7]

37. Why didn't the Salon tell her before she would be charged more for Weight ?

why don't they get stronger chairs ?

the Salon was wrong in this even if you are ok with charging more since they didn't tell the customer before.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. Because equipment is designed to carry the average

I refereed down to my gurneys. They were designed to carry 300 pounds. These days they do make BARIATRIC ambulance gurneys and specially made wheelchairs, to carry people who are 500 and 700 pounds. Those are expensive as hell, and built one at a time.

I am willing to bet 250 is a max for those chairs.

[uncommon]

128. Not for this one:

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/product.jsp?productId=199635&pid=Froogle&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=113949

[nadinbrzezinski]

141. So you are telling me this chair does not have a max

of weight it can safely handle?

I am positive it does. For most people who are normal weight, or somewhat overweight it doesn't matter. But if you enter the morbidly obese there are issues. It is just one more of those things that really make the life of the morbidly obese suck in major ways.

[uncommon]

143. Of course it does, but it's a lot more than 200 lbs lol.

The chair I posted, for instance, has a weight limit of 350 lbs.

[nadinbrzezinski]

148. And like my patient

who we used blankets, she was 500, I could not risk her on my gurney... rated at 300 pounds.

Nor did the SINGLE gurney in the ER work, We needed to join two gurneys with duck tape.

[uncommon]

150. That really isn't relevant here. There are plenty of pedicure chairs that are affordable and can

accommodate a heavier customer. Therefore it is surprising that this one can't and also that any business owner, when faced with the options, would choose the weaker (and apparently more expensive) model.

[nadinbrzezinski]

156. What is relevant is that heavier patients

no, not heavier, let's use the right language... the morbidly obese face challenges, ranging from pedicures to hospital equipment, to every day life. That is a fact jack, that you can take to the bank.

And no, it is not necessarily hate for the morbidly obese as some folks think it is.

These are REAL issues... and they are just getting WORST.

Now I am not going to blame the obese for lack of will or what have you. It is far more complex than that... and it could be from a slew of causes... but the fact is that their lives are affected in negative ways ALL the time.

This is just one more example of it.

[uncommon]

181. I don't think anyone is disagreeing that there are all kinds of issues that

severely overweight people have to deal with. I'm not sure where this sub-thread is going.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Leaving the civil rights issues to the side

There is a problem with how overweight our population is becoming.

Flash back to my morbidly obese patient we transported to the ER with a coronary.

Our STANDARD catheters did not reach... so yes, they had to use a central vein kit... at the ER, because we could never find a vein... no, not lack of trying... as the doctor put it, ours were not long enough.

Our Oxygen mask had to be taped on.

We did not even risk the gurney... but instead used blankets on the floor. Why? My gurney had a limit of 300 pounds... these days there are specialized units (called bariatric Units) that have especially made ambulance gurneys and sometimes they are not enough either.

We ended up using two ER gurneys and two rolls of duck tape because our patient did not fit in one.

The point I am trying to make is that I can see these kinds of costs going up because quite frankly we are a population that is sick, and very heavy.

So leaving the civil rights issues to the side... these are real issues.

Oh and that patient did survive by the way... and I do hope she followed the recommendation from her doctors to at least lose 100 pounds.

[BlueIris]

46. Yeah. I mean, I think the way the salon treated her was unfair

and possibly illegal, but it's not like obesity is a good or acceptable health condition.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. I am not sure if ilegal given that xxx large clothes are more expensive

but unfair, absolutely.

[Hansel]

163. Consider that she knowingly allowed a women to sit in a chair

that she believed or knew was not designed to safely hold her weight and did not tell her about it.

The XXX large clothes is not an adequate analogy here. She endangered this woman's safety and her only concern was squeezing $5 out of it. I'm sure her insurance company would love this.

[Statistical]

88. What civil rights issue?

Weight is not a protected class.

Protected Classes:
* Race - Federal: Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Civil Rights Act of 1866
* Color - Federal: Civil Rights Act of 1964
* Religion - Federal: Civil Rights Act of 1964
* National origin - Federal: Civil Rights Act of 1964
* Age (40 and over) - Federal: Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967
* Sex - Federal: Equal Pay Act of 1963 & Civil Rights Act of 1964
* Familial status (Housing, cannot discriminate for having children, exception for senior housing)
* Sexual orientation (in some jurisdictions and not in others)
* Gender identity (in some jurisdictions and not in others)
* Disability status - Federal: Vocational Rehabilitation and Other Rehabilitation Services of 1973 & Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990
* Veteran status - Federal Vietnam Era Veterans Readjustment Assistance Act of 1974
* Genetic information - Federal: Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class

[spanone]

42. and tran can go fuck herself

[AnnieBW]

57. That's the last time I'd get my nails done there!

Get better chairs, lady. There's a lot more women over 200 lbs than you think.

[guitar man]

59. Oh goody!

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/grenade.htm



:D

[ohheckyeah]

65. Was it wrong? yes

I do believe the smokers warned people that are overweight that they were next.

[JI7]

73. aren't many of the overweight those who quit smoking ?

[ohheckyeah]

91. I have no idea. n/t

[Divine Discontent]

74. Tran is obviously a shitty business lady, because if she weren't, she'd have told the overweight

client of her's that she was going to make up some ridiculous, "you're fat" surcharge for the natural breaking of chairs over time.

If the chairs have a weight limit, why are they putting people above that weight in the chairs!!@!@#!@! DUMBASSES!!

[stranger81]

75. If I were a betting gal, I'd put money on this having nothing to do with costs or broken chairs.

It's about Ms. Tran, the owner of a business providing aesthetic services, wanting some reason -- any reason -- to get a customer she perceived as unattractive out of her salon.

Like someone else said upthread, I bet Ms. Tran is a real peach of a woman.

[jmm]

80. That was my first thought when I read this.

If the issue was simply about multiple chairs having been broken the salon could've bought better chairs.

I'm not buying the whole we have to keep paying $2500 to repair chairs story. After about a minute search on google I could find this chair which costs $1415 and has a maximum weight load capacity of 990 lbs-


http://www.dhgate.com/3-x-barber-salon-styling-hydraulic-chair/p-ff808081267a0b07012687b40bb963d5.html

I'm sure it wouldn't take them long to find a chair cheaper than the ones they claim keep needing repair that could fit in the style of their salon and didn't have a weight limit of 200 lbs.

Edited to add here's a chair more similar to the one in the video that has a maximum weight capacity of 350 lbs and is $1549 brand new-

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/product.jsp?productId=199636

[Statistical]

85. Saddest part is how uninformed she is.

Does she think Obesity is a protected class?

The comment "you can do that here, this is America" seems to imply she does.

[npk]

89. That comment of hers only reinforces the fact that she is completely oblivious to the real problem

To her the most important issue in all of this is paying $24 and only $24 to get her nails done. Her health or the inconvenience that her extreme weight puts on businesses and other people doesn't even factor into the discussion.

Basically getting her nails done is a higher priority then her health. It's amazing that she believes other people should pick up the tab for her own decisions in life.

[Dorian Gray]

104. Oh please

you don't know the woman. You don't know whether she's tried dieting or is currently dieting. You don't know anything about her other than she was pissed at being charged FIVE extra dollars at the end of a manicure because she is overweight.

And she has every right to be pissed. If she was told about the "surcharge" at the beginning of the session, she could have walked out and never gone back in there.

[Sea Witch]

120. I get my nails done- It makes me feel good

My significant other pays for it every few weeks. I've been working really hard since January on losing weight and eating local, organic and healthy.

You would see me and assume I am just another fat slob, lazy, pathetic, etc etc who is stopping at McD's on the way home. Even fat women have a right to feel pretty now and then, even when the rest of the world is disgusted and hates that we haven't done the right thing and off'd ourselves so they wouldn't be subjected to having to interact with us.

[Missy Vixen]

133. Hey, Sea Witch, you have every right to feel good about yourself

If getting your nails done is a treat and taking care of yourself, you should do it. You have as much right to walk into that business and expect to be treated with courtesy and respect as any other customer.

>Even fat women have a right to feel pretty now and then, even when the rest of the world is disgusted and hates that we haven't done the right thing and off'd ourselves so they wouldn't be subjected to having to interact with us.<

This makes me want to cry.

As Eleanor Roosevelt said, nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent. It's not you. It's them. If they are so petty and small that they judge someone else solely on their appearance, they're not worth knowing in the first place.

Don't let the bully get you down. You are loved. You are important. You deserve it. Congratulations on the life changes; I hope you're feeling great!

:hug:

[Sea Witch]

136. Thank you Missy

I'm feeling better every day. The mental part is the tough thing. The world is a cruel place that never lets you forget your flaws. I am looking forward to the day that people will see me as myself instead of as a fat person. I'm fortunate to have supportive friends and family.

[Hansel]

168. I hope you don't do business management consulting for a living.

If you want paying customers to frequent your establishment the best approach is to figure out what they need and want and provide it for them. With a smile.

In the service industry the "oh, woe is me, stop inconveniencing me fatty" business strategy is probably not going to make you very successful. Customers don't give a crap if you are rich or not. They care about the services that they are paying for and how they are treated. It's up to the business owner to figure out how to provide services without pissing off and insulting their customers. And without endangering their health and safety.

Any business owners who see their customers as inconveniences maybe need to get in a different line of work.

[Fleshdancer]

87. ridiculous discrimination aside, let's address the chair BS....

WHAT chair is this nail salon buying that breaks if someone over 200 lbs sits in it? WHAT chair repair company are they going to that charges them $2,500 for repairing a chair that couldn't cost more than $75 for a manicure chair (which is nothing more than the cheapest office chair you can find) and maybe $1500 if they had the massage chairs for the pedicures?

I call bullshit on this stupid excuse.

[Lorien]

94. It is indeed. The chairs don't cost that much and most office chairs can handle

far more than 200 pounds. My father must weigh around 400 pounds (he's tall and hugely obese) and he's never broken a chair anywhere. It's a completely bogus excuse. The owner just hates overweight people. I guess that she'll only be able to serve the 37% or so of Georgian residents who aren't overweight!

On edit: she could have purchased eight of these $300.00 chairs with a weight limit of 400 pounds for less than the imaginary cost of fixing one: http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/product.jsp?productId=109784

[ProdigalJunkMail]

99. the chairs she is talking about are the pedi-chairs

which have a basin attached and a plastic base for covering the plumbing...it could easily cost $2400...

sP

OnEdit :

this is the second cheapest chair they sell... http://www.shoplexor.com/Detail-Mystique.asp?id=2

the most expensive is almost $2700

[uncommon]

115. There are many cheaper ones (and the cheaper ones are what I've seen used in salons

in my area which is relatively affluent). And the cheaper ones I have seen have over 300 lb weight limits.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

131. that doesn't mean she didn't pay that much...

and we are also not considering the labor to install/remove/reinstall after the repair or replacement. depending on the chair i find the $2400 totally reasonable. not saying this is right (charging more for a broken chair) but...that chair price...could be right.

sP

[uncommon]

132. My point was that there are cheaper chairs with higher weight limits that could

better accommodate her customers.

[uncommon]

112. That is not the type of chair used for a pedicure.

This is: http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/product.jsp?productId=199635&pid=Froogle&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=113949#spec

HOWEVER, the chair I just listed has a weight limit of 350 lbs and is about $1,000 less than Tran claimed her chairs cost.

This was about trying to squeeze extra money out of someone she would have rather not had in her establishment, not about safety. As many have said upthread - if it was about safety, they wouldn't have allowed her in the chair in the first place.

[Sisaruus]

103. The manicure/pedicure obsession in this country ignores the serious workplace hazards

I am constantly offended that no one seems to care that salon workers (and many are people of color) are constantly exposed to toxic work environments. Someone should get cancer so that your toenails can be a pretty color? Those places should be outlawed.

http://www.seattlepi.com/health/294599_nailsalon04.html

[uncommon]

109. The techs at the salon near me always wear masks and gloves...

There are hazards in many lines of work.

[Gaedel]

122. I can believe the environmental hazards

Every time, i pass by the nail salon (Vietnamese) in one of our malls (just outside Sears), I hurry by because of the terrible piercing smell from the chemicals they use. I would never go in there of my own free will.

[LynneSin]

116. I hope that store goes out of business. Their solution is very very simple and inexpensive

Buy a few chairs for heavier people. The fact that they didn't invest in chairs that could accommodate heavier weights isn't the problem of the customer. As an overweight person I recognize all the problems out there that my weight can cause and yes, I do struggle daily to watch calories. It's not easy. Although I might get a mani/pedi done once a year on special occasions, I think it's not that much of a challenge to spend an extra hundred or so and put 1 or 2 chairs in there that can accommodate weight.

[Mimosa]

170. If there are such chairs it would take LOTS of money to buy them

And the owner would have to charge more to pay for the chairs. In this economy can she charge more?

Tran is between a rock and a hard place.

BTW, that area is sort of a poor neighborhood.


*edited for sp*

[slackmaster]

117. If the salon's furniture can't SAFELY accommodate someone over 200 pounds,

The salon should not be serving anyone who weighs over 200 pounds. People over that weight should be turned away at the door.

[uncommon]

123. She should sue the salon for endangering her by letting her use the chair without disclosing

the safety issue.

That would shut them right up.

[ThomasQED]

142. Do you really think that's justice?

She was not treated well, she should have been told beforehand of the $5 charge, and it's a sucky situation... but is suing really the answer to everything these days?

[uncommon]

145. No, I was making a point -- while she was mistreated here, she was also apparently put in danger.

Since so many in this thread are defending Tran saying she was trying to protect her business and the safety of her clientele - clearly she was not trying to protect the client's safety since she allowed her to sit in the chair that allegedly couldn't hold her weight.

[ThomasQED]

166. Gotcha.

In the video she says she wasn't there when the lady came in or she wouldn't have let her. Maybe a case of bad employee training, or not... I know if I were that employee I'd have trouble telling someone they were too big for the chair.

[Dogmudgeon]

125. It may actually be due to Ms. Fonville's skin condition

You know ... dark.

Just a guess.

--d!

[Gaedel]

134. And Ms Tran?

Obviously a blond, blue-eyed Aryan?

[KingFlorez]

167. I don't think the issue was race related, but racism isn't limited to white people

It's asinine to imply that it is.

[Mimosa]

171. That area of Dekalb County is mainly black, Asian, not white n/t

[Roon]

135. I have two big buddies..both weigh 300+

One of them thinks he weighs only 150lbs and will throw his weight around,incuding on the furniture. He has broken more chairs then I can count.

My second buddy is well aware how heavy he is. He will only sit in chairs he thinks will be able to hold him and he is very careful about how he sits down.

I am heavy myself, I am very careful when sitting down in a chair, when in doubt, I find another chair.

[Lucian]

153. Maybe instead of bitching about it, maybe she should lose weight.

Yeah, I know I sound like an asshole, but it benefits overweight people to lose weight. Then they won't have health problems down the road, like diabetes, cancer, heart disease, etc.

I walked in her shoes once. I was at 240 pounds (at 5'5" tall). But I found a way to lose the weight. And the easiest way to do that is move. Do something that increases your heart rate. Anything. And the pounds will shed right off (with a healthy diet, of course).

[Scout]

154. more health nazis expressing their "concern" for the fat. n/t

[Lucian]

161. I'm willing to guess you never read reports on the risks of being overweight.

After all, what do doctors know?

I don't feel sorry for people who guzzle down soda after soda and eat vast amounts of Oreo cookies and bitch that their overweight. Either their overweight because of physical reasons, or there's an underlying problem that a therapist can help out with.

Either way, being overweight is something that can be changed.

[Scout]

172. i don't feel sorry for the ignorant who can't spell....

correlation does not equal causation, son.

and it's just none of your fucking business what anyone else weighs and why.

your "concern" is not concern, it's bigotry, ignorance and arrogance, and you can fold it five ways and shove it up your tight, skinny ass :hi:

[Lucian]

187. Ah, yes...

attack me because of a spelling issue. You have nothing else to attack me on. You know I'm right.

[KingFlorez]

165. Agreed

It's just not healthy, no matter how people try to spin. I could see her complaining about the charge if the business didn't have a valid reason, but that was not the case.

[Zoeisright]

176. Yeah, gee, you DO sound like an asshole.

I don't think that's a coincidence. There's really nothing more puke-worthy than someone who managed to accomplish something, then thinks that everybody else in the world should be able to do it too.

Be careful. Being smug and self-righteous will come back to bite you in the ass.

[WI_DEM]

162. Well, since over half the population is overweight they should boycott that shop and I'll bet you'll

see them rethinking their obesity policy if their clientele falls off.

[Mimosa]

169. Watch the video: woman is too big for chairs

I just watched the video. I know what those chairs are like. Yes, that woman, Fonville, is about 400 pounds (watch the video). There is probably no chair she wouldn't break, sadly.

I can't believe that woman went to TV news over this.

[nadinbrzezinski]

184. I resisted watching the video

but you are right... she would complaint that we did not use our gurney either...