Built in obsolescence.

[MadHound]

This past week (month really) I was once again introduced to the fact that corporations in this country build obsolescence into virtually everything they make. Some are worse about this than others.

My current case in point, John Deere lawn tractors. I live on enough acreage, and do enough farming that I need a garden tractor to cut the grass, haul mulch, and other such chores. I bought one new from John Deere six years ago.

Though I've put it to regular use, I've done nothing to truly overwork it, yet this summer the transmission started dying. Why? Because the manufacturers at JD didn't put in a transmission that you could drain and fill with fresh fluid, oh no. They installed a closed system, where there was no possible way to change out the fluid and thus lengthen the life of the tranny. You see, as transmission fluid is much like engine oil, the more you use it, the quicker it breaks down, loses viscosity, and if not change, fail completely, taking your tranny with it. This is what happened to me. But not just me, getting on several different JD chatboards I find out that this is happening all across the country.

Built in obsolescence, sooner or later you are forced to plunk down seven hundred bucks in order to get a new transmission, a cost that could have been prevented if JD had just drilled and tapped a couple of holes in the tranny so that it could be filled and drained.

But John Deere isn't the only example of built in obsolescence, far from it. Our electronics, computers, televisions, etc. all run on the same principle. In fact at times it seems as though most of our products are designed extract as much money from you as possible. Being a competent mechanic, I have always taken car of my own car maintenance, at least up until the last vehicles I bought. Now they are so designed that unless I have a car lift(which I'm actually thinking about getting) I can't even change my own oil, I have to pay somebody else to change the oil, and trust that they don't fuck it up.

We truly need to get back to manufacturing quality products, ones that last and that don't cost you an arm and a leg to own. We've got to get back to not designing in built in obsolescence into every single product. If American manufacturers will build quality, I think that even if it was more expensive, people would buy it.

Besides, if we don't start building in this manner, we're all going to drown in our own garbage, and we continue to throw away obsolete junk at an exponential rate.

[Betty]

1. sort of related..

I hate my Canon printer. It will refuse to print anything if the ink level gets to maybe half full... I look and can see there is still ink in there, but the sensors are set to reject it after if uses about half the ink. It is a huge racket. I recycle the ink cartridges but still, it's so un green.

[MadHound]

2. Oh that's another great example.

Luckily I've got an HP that, though the lights will wink and blink and nod, telling me I've got to get a new cartridge now, it will still print.

I've literally printed out well over five hundred pages after the lights come on before the cartridge runs dry. Another fine way they try to get you to buy more stuff.

[Hepburn]

14. Yep, my HP Laser All-in-One does the same thing.

And usually, like you, I get many more pages printed than the alert is telling me I have left.

[pansypoo53219]

35. it took me a few years, but after my FIRST printer

got so effed up, i just eliminated it. did NOT replace it. tho, i got a all in 1 with my new imac. it still has the original ink. i do not use it. it is a CAT BED.

hell, i go to estate sales and GLEEFULLY quire vintage heaters/fans/old stuff. SCREWDRIVERS. in winter i USE my 20's copper bowl heater. i sit on my 50's mid century chair to put and have a early 1900's desk that works AWESOMELY. so many drawers. i haven't been in a REAL store/mall in ages.

[phantom power]

3. It seems like nothing is made with screws or bolts anymore...

You've probably noticed that hardly anything is put together with crazy shit like "screws" or "bolts" any more -- because if they did that, it would be too easy for somebody to look at and figure out how to disassemble it and maybe repair it.

No, it's all put together with inscrutable plastic latches, so that it's hard to tell where and how to pull it apart, and you're in immediate danger of breaking it if you do it wrong.

It's right up there with my rant about the lack of "off switches" on anything.

x(

[Romulox]

6. Torx head screws are the devil.

I mean really...allen head wasn't sufficient for the job?

[phantom power]

9. There appears to be an endless arms-race there...

keeping the shape of the driver ahead of what the average guy has in his garage.

Actually, it's a great analog of the arms-race between microbes and the immune system. In fact, that war plays out in shape-space as well.

[derby378]

41. From Wikipedia

By design, Torx head screws resist cam-out better than Phillips head or slot head (flathead) screws. Where Phillips heads were designed to cause the driver to cam out, to prevent over-tightening, Torx heads were designed to prevent cam-out. The reason for this was the development of better torque-limiting automatic screwdrivers for use in factories. Rather than rely on the tool slipping out of the screw head when a torque level is reached, thereby risking damage to the driver tip, screw head and workpiece, the driver design achieves a desired torque consistently. The manufacturer claims this can increase tool bit life by ten times or more.

Torx screws are commonly found on automobiles, bicycle brake systems, hard disk drives, computer systems and consumer electronics. Initially, they were sometimes used in applications requiring tamper-resistance, since the drive systems and screwdrivers were not widely available; as drivers became more common, tamper-resistant variants, as described below, were developed. Today, Torx screws are also becoming increasingly popular in construction industries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx

I'm perfectly fine and happy with star screws. I even have a star screwdriver set.

[Romulox]

45. The reason my MacBook's hd bay was secured with Torx head screws had nothing to do with camout. nt

[derby378]

46. Are they regular Torx screws or Security Torx? (n/t)

[Romulox]

47. The hard drive is long since replaced.

As an aside, the quality of (non security, fwiw) Torx driver and bit set I purchased at Rat Shack was appalling.

Yes, I'm sure a better set of Torx drivers could be purchased online, but...fuck 'em; Torx head screws are the devil.

[apnu]

7. That's because they want you to buy a new item instead of repairing the old one.

I had a Kitchen Aid blender that had this rubber gear that connected to the spindle on the blades. The rubber wore out after two years of normal use and they don't sell a replacement part. They even went so far to rivet the grommet on the bottom of the rubber bit so you couldn't take it off with out destroying the rotor pin. Basically if that 10 cent rubber bit went the whole bottom unit had to be replaced.

Stupid.

iPods/iPhones are the same way. If there's a mechanical issue (like the battery) you have to toss out the unit and buy a new one at the tune of $300+ bucks.

[MadHound]

8. That includes housing as well

Twenty years ago I was watching a development being built, and noticed that the construction folks were using these fasteners that were little more than sheet metal with spikes on them to attach everything together. They built all these houses with these things, not one nail or screw. Now these houses are literally falling apart as these fasteners let go.

Now those fasteners are ubiquitous, in virtually all new construction. Thankfully I've got an older house that is solid and has stood the test of time.

[Xithras]

22. The lack of screws stems from another problem...

...the lack of humans in the manufacturing process. Products made on automated assembly lines rarely use screws because of potential problems with alignment, cross threading, etc. Computers do much better with plastic snaps, which simply require the exertion of pressure.

[phantom power]

24. That is a very interesting point.

Although I predict manufacturers consider the lack of maintainability to be a bonus, not a drawback :-)

[MountainLaurel]

4. Huge pet peeve of mine

And it's made worse by the fact that often it's less expensive to buy a new product than to fix the old one.

[The2ndWheel]

5. But we have to create demand for the economy to work

Waste is really the fundamental building block of the economy. It creates jobs, one way or another. If you buy one product, which can last for a long time, and can be easily fixed by you, that's not going to create a lot of jobs.

People need to circulate their money. We see what happens when they don't, whether they don't have any, or hold onto what they have. That's why we can never stop, or slow down. If a few people don't buy, nobody gives a damn. When more and more people start not buying, then the government has to try to force us to buy again.

[MadHound]

12. Funny how that notion is disproven by our own history

Our economy was at its best when we were making quality goods, up through the sixties and seventies. Very little built in obsolescence, electronics were designed to be fixed, not thrown away, cars were designed so that a normal person could work on them if they chose to, and frankly if a company did build in obsolescence, they were shunned, quickly.

And our economy was in much better shape than it is now.

Quality creates demand, which runs an economy. Yes, built in obsolescence is creating a demand, but at what cost to us and our environment. If I have to pay an extra seven hundred bucks for a new tranny every six years, that's seven hundred bucks that's not going elsewhere. Built in obsolescence makes money for the few, not for the economy at large.

[The2ndWheel]

27. It's also a different world than the time up through the 60's and 70's

More people than just white men working. More countries in the global economic system. Increased automation. Aging populations. More people to support. Increased specialization. Etc, etc.

"If I have to pay an extra seven hundred bucks for a new tranny every six years, that's seven hundred bucks that's not going elsewhere."

But would it absolutely be going elsewhere?

I'm not in favor of the throw away economy. I'm a saver, not a spender. I've probably kept food off of the table for the family of somebody out there at some point. However, as long as demand must be created in order to sustain all of us(and we have the energy to keep it going), then this is the economy we're going to have.

[MadHound]

32. So we should sacrifice our environment, our resources in order to artificially create demand?

And while the demographic makeup of the economy is different, the fact of the matter is that the demand for quality remains the same.

You don't have to sacrifice quality products in order to create demand. Our auto industry did that in the seventies, and has never recovered since then. Is this what you want to happen to every industry?

[The2ndWheel]

37. Should we? No

Again, I'm not in favor of this type of economy. I'm not even in favor of the auto industry. I think that roads are an even larger part of our environmental problems than the cars that are driven on them which the auto industry provides. So in no way do I think we should sacrifice the environment for our economy.

However, when we have a large institution like the government, attempting to, in theory, force us to buy anything we can in order to keep itself functional, then there is no other way that our economy will work today. The corporate part of that equation goes without saying. They need more customers to grow, the same way the government needs more tax payers to grow. Right now, the only way either does grow is if people have jobs. The only way more people have jobs, is to create more demand. Even then, people are not only in competition with each other for the job, in some instances from ever further distances between two or more people, but are also fighting against advances in technology that makes more human labor obsolete.

There certainly aren't any easy answers. Everything is a give and take. If we want a different economy, we have to be willing to give something up to get it. What makes it so messy, what makes it so complicated, is the diversity of opinion on what to give and what to take.

[Lance_Boyle]

10. the oil change, anyway, can be done with an extractor

warm the engine, stick the extractor hose down the dipstick tube, suction out the old oil. I know modern VWs are designed to be drained this way - maybe other makes are, too.

Sucks about the JD trans, though. I would not be so certain that a fluid change would have saved it. A quality trans fluid can honestly be a "lifetime" fill - fluids are really that good now. Unfortunately, transmissions themselves are not so good anymore. No fluid, no matter how awesome, can keep a rapidly-spinning collection of chinese metal intact forever.

[MadHound]

17. The extractor method leaves a lot of dirt and gunk behind,

Which will continue to add to the wear and tear of the car. I had a buddy of mine who did this as an experiment, did one oil change using an extractor, the other using the drain. He got a huge amount of just general old oil crap out by draining that he didn't get out with the extractor.

But my real problem is where they've set the oil filter. On a lot of cars and trucks they've set it so that you can't get the filter out unless you come in from the bottom somehow.

Actually my JD tranny was made here in the US, surprisingly enough. But there is still no such thing as a lifetime fluid when it comes to any sort of oil. It breaks down sooner or later and needs to be changed, and on a hydrostatic tranny, fresh oil is pretty vital.

[lumberjack_jeff]

11. I just bought a 1936 South Bend Lathe on Craigslist.

It was rusty, crusty and generally neglected. I stripped off all the paint, gave it a good de-rusting and now it's purring away in my shop. It's a really well-made machine.

We've forgotten too much.

[MadHound]

13. I've got several old radios that continue to run just fine

And I love the sound that comes out of them. Same with my old cars, they just keep going, fifty, sixty years later.

[MorningGlow]

15. Our own private electronics graveyard

Never mind the obsolete computers littering our house--I'm talking about other stuff that "isn't worth fixing". The most recent deaths were a standard DVD player (for the TV) and a portable DVD player. They litter our house because we're not quite sure what to do with them. They're significant electronic items--it's so hard to imagine throwing them away. But if we don't, what else should we do with them? Turn them into planters?

When I tell my mom, who grew up during the depression and won't throw out so much as a wooden spoon, that nobody is willing to fix these items because it's not worth it, she can't even wrap her mind around the concept. But that's what it's come to. Sick and sad.

[MadHound]

21. There are electronics recycling centers

Where they strip the piece of its metal and recycle the plastic. However not every locale has these centers, so a lot of this stuff winds up in the landfill, leaching out heavy metals and polluting the land.

[Lars39]

25. There might be a group doing a collection drive for those items

in your community. The Girl Scouts are going to be collecting electronics near us next month.

[sakabatou]

40. You could always give them to an electronics recycling plant

if you have one near you.

[hugo_from_TN]

49. Your computers are 'obsolete' only in relation to new ones with vastly higher performance.

This isn't a bad thing. The computer you bought years ago has the same performance as the day you bought it.

[phantom power]

16. Lately I've been feeling like there is a biz-model opportunity here...

Filling a mostly-empty economic niche: "More expensive, but built to last, and also designed to be *repairable*"

Tangentially, I've been thinking that the "Made in America" niche is pretty empty these days, and waiting to be exploited. This time, I was thinking something like an "all-American-made" web catalogue. "Shop here, and everything we sell it made in America"

[Kat45]

43. Sounds good to me, but I thought of one major problem:

With so little manufactured in this country today, would the business be able to find all the components needed to make the product that are also made in America? From what I understand, even some products labeled "Made in USA" are made out of foreign-made components. Also, I'm not sure if there would be enough interested consumers to sustain a business in this niche. Too many people weren't around when products were like that.

[hugo_from_TN]

48. The US has the largest manufacturing output in the world.

[Greyhound]

18. It seems American companies (not that there really is any such thing) have forgotten

how the Japanese kicked their asses in the first place.
:kick: & R

[Greyhound]

19. It seems American companies (not that there really is any such thing) have forgotten

how the Japanese kicked their asses in the first place.
:kick: & R

[pipi_k]

20. I just had to buy my fourth microwave in 14 years

But, to be fair, we took a major strike from lightning last week, so it, and a bunch of other things around here, are fried.


Had a cell phone that died less than 2 years after I bought it...4 months before my Verizon contract would need to be renewed. We had originally wanted to switch to the Senior plan because we don't use the 700 minutes each month on the regular family plan, but had to wait till October (of 2008) to do it. So out of the three or four options, we chose to renew the existing contract and get a replacement phone for free. What pissed me off was that I was always extremely careful with the phone. Not like one of my stepdaughters who abuses her phone and ends up having to get a new one every two years.

OTOH, we have a Craftsman riding mower that has got to be at least 20 years old, and it's been repaired and welded and reincarnated more times than I recall. Still running.

My GE dishwasher has lasted for 15 years, but that might be because there are just the two of us and I only use it once or twice a week (wash by hand most of the time).

But anyway, things definitely aren't as sturdy as they used to be...

[MadHound]

23. I've got a microwave that has lasted for over twenty years,

I've got a drier that's well over thirty years. On the other hand, I bought a new washer six years ago that died three years later due to cheap construction, and am hoping that the new one we bought will go at least a decade.

It just amazes me how quickly new stuff just simply dies and can't be repaired.

[pipi_k]

29. What brand of microwave is it?

I forget what the first one (out of the four I had here) was, but it didn't last more than a year or two.

After that, I went for the "Sharp" brand, which seems to have lasted longer, but nowhere near over 5 years. I use mine like 20 times a day.


Wow, I remember an old "Sunbeam" toaster my mom had. The thing must have been 25 years old when it finally died. And it probably could have been repaired for another 10 or 20 years of life...

[MadHound]

31. It's a Toshiba

A big old heavy clunker. It still works like a charm.

[NBachers]

28. I finally got rid of my solid old Motorola cell phone earlier this year. It worked fine

but my new lady friend made it part of her "new man makeover." I actually kind of enjoyed displaying the heavy bulletproof relic whenever I used it.

[pipi_k]

30. hahahah...that's the brand that died on me!!!

Got a Samsung to replace it.

:)

[Ernesto]

26. John Deere riding mowers are brand fraud

As most other brands, their chassis are built by Murray who is owned by Briggs & Stratton.
I own a new Murray & an old MTD (Murray). JD apparently just charges you plenty extra for the idiotic green & yellow paint.

[Subdivisions]

33. A righteous rant, MadHound. Could you, or could you have,

drilled and tapped your own drain and fill holes? I'm not familiar with this machine at all and the question is a serious one.

[MadHound]

34. A drain hole was possible,

But the fill hole really wasn't. The only suitable place to do so on the top surface was already taken up by a vent hole.

[Subdivisions]

36. Ah...gotcha. Seems you already thought of that too =) Are you a tinkerer? n/t

[MadHound]

39. Yep, I tinker with everything,

Learned long ago that working with your hands, being mechanical, learning how to make things work is a handy skill to have. It's saved me a ton of money. My current for fun project is refurbishing an old electromechanical pinball machine.

[guitar man]

38. That's Why I didn't buy one

I bought my garden tractor 6 years ago and I was looking at a John Deere L130 and a comparable sized/powered Cub Cadet. They both had hydrostatic transmissions, the John deere was not serviceable and the Cub Cadet was. What I really wanted was a manual gearbox which was getting hard to find, but I happened upon the Husqvarna GT2254 and lo and behold, a manual transmission...that could be serviced. It was $1000 cheaper than the John Deere and it had a heavier mower deck. I took it home and six years later the only things I have had to replace have been the blades and finally this year, the mower deck belt. It still even has its original battery. :D

[One_Life_To_Give]

42. Commercial Grade or Private Use?

In the Race to the Bottom. Even the more reputable manufacturers have had to yield to the price pressures of the Big Box chains. You can still buy a Bunn Coffee maker that will keep working thru your lifetime, kids lifetime and maybe your grandkids. But most people would rather give Walmart 10 bucks for one to last thru maybe the next 2-3 years.

We have collectively voted with our wallets for the range of products commonly available today. Lowest Cost, never needs maintenance and disposable when it breaks. If you want stuff to last longer you need to buy up to commercial/industrial grade products. Where there is still a market for quality and repairable tools and equipment.

[Festivito]

44. Our entire business system rests on hoodwinking people.

Internet from taxes would cost nearly nothing, but instead we pay $100 to $500 a year for what would cost less than one month's payment and would last for years, even decades and we'd never lose our emails.

Healthcare would cost $3000 per capita, but instead we pay over twice that in order to employ people who make us pay more because they made it harder for us to get care and make us fear the word socialism -- whatever it means.

Bosses disrupt union organizing in order to make more money for themselves in a country that prides itself on the right to assemble.

Our cell phones run on dozens of different frequencies from dozens of different companies meaning we might or might not have coverage in various places and we cannot take our number to another phone because they created SIM cards to force us to not use another phone all of which is totally unnecessary except to make some hot-shot extra yacht footage.

[Lagomorph]

50. What Year/Model do you have? -nt